Partnering with boyfriend/girlfriend

[Kitty]

I hear form so many people that competitive dancing with boyfriend/girlfriend may not be a good idea. Why not? What would be the argument against it? (If possible, please be more specific than "it may ruin your relationship").

Anything else you could tell about partnering with boyfriend/girlfriend/wife/husband?

[UltraMagnus]

You have to be VERY prepared to take the stress of the practice home with you. No matter how much you say you won't, you will. I am VERY patient and VERY tolerant of my wife's temper. This is how I have survived.

[Genesius Redux]

I've got no experience with this in dance, but in the arts generally. The kind of work you do in the theatre is very much like what you do in dance, so here's my take on romances in the theatre.

Personal relationships color performance. The most obvious way is when two people are supposed to be in love onstage, and they're having a romance off. When things are going well, everything looks fine. But when there's a fight, or even worse, a breakup, the whole dynamic can be screwy.

An arts relationship should be free from all sorts of extra emotional baggage. To enter a shared aesthetic endeavor requires a degree of special trust and self-comfort that you rarely find in love relationships. People are preoccupied about what their boyfriend/girlfriend thinks of them, they're less likely to take risks. Even when they're feeling good about things, the focus tends to be on the offstage relationship, which is far more powerful than the onstage relationship.

Performance relationships are very special, and fragile things. And I like to think of the performance space as a place where people can park all of their outside troubles at the stage door. I don't want to start giving a sermon on establishing a "temple of the arts," but that's not far off from an ideal. And maybe the only reason I wouldn't say "temple" is that this makes it sound too pious and reserved. I'd say instead that performance is a wonderland experience--where all the relationships are whatever we want them to be in the dream, but when Alice comes out of the hole back into the real world, the illusion is gone.

Or to quote Prospero in The Tempest:

Our revels now are ended. These our actors,
As I foretold you, were all spirits and
Are melted into air, into thin air;
And, like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve,
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff
As dreams are made on, and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.

The relationship between theatrical illusion and real life, as Prospero sees it here, is the same as that between the world of time and the world of eternity--the influx of the more real world shatters the illusion. This was true 400 years ago and it remains true today.

That's why I choose not to mix a romance with a performance relationship. If you're dancing with someone and you fall for them, there is very little you can do--you just have to deal with it. But I don't think I'd ever choose to do any major competitions (or major theatrical performances) with someone I was already in love with and seeing and dating.

That's just me. Hope that gives you one perspective.

Cheers,

Genesius

[Sagitta]

You have to be VERY prepared to take the stress of the practice home with you. No matter how much you say you won't, you will. I am VERY patient and VERY tolerant of my wife's temper. This is how I have survived.

WEcome to df UltraMagnus!! What you say is very true. Also be prepared for the stresses of your relationship and life outside dance to show up in your dancing, as well. I've seen it often.

[Chris Stratton]

One general thought is that if you have a strong drive to do well in competitions and are at a stage where at least one of you is learning many new concepts, you need to take LOTS of private lessons, probably one for every 4-5 hours of development practice*. To whatever extent you can have the 'bad news' of corrections come from an outside authority like a coach, you can lessen the stress of blaming each other, without having to give up on the demanding standards that keep your progress rapid.

Of course if you aren't so intent on competition, that's fine too and may make things simpler. Though one thing that could be very dangerous is if you end up with different degrees of commitment to competition vs. just having fun doing some dancing together.

*(by development practice, I mean time spent trying to fix things - simply dancing for rote practice without stopping to work on issues probably doesn't need to count in my suggested ratio)

[etchuck]

Under circumstances where you are partners in more than just the one emotional relationship (such as workplace, fitness partners, whatever), learn to leave problems in one venue at that venue. In other words, whatever problems you have in your dancing, keep that on the dance floor. Don't carry them over to other aspects of your life which you share. Make sure you BOTH recognize that just because you are having problems with a closed hip twist, that has nothing to do with you not being able to have dinner ready on time (or something like that).

Of course, also recognize those problems that are specific to one's personality (which span all areas in which you share time) and don't hesitate to talk about those problems. But certainly don't talk about those problems when you're dancing.

It's similar to what people do when they decide to work at home. Disciplining one's mind to be able to do that is perhaps the most difficult part.

P.S. edit: Props to GR and his response.

[Chris Stratton]

Make sure you BOTH recognize that just because you are having problems with a closed hip twist, that has nothing to do with you not being able to have dinner ready on time (or something like that).


Oh, I'm sure Kitty can both do a crisp hip twist and have dinner ready for her boyfriend whHEY WAIT A MINUTE! Is this 2004, or 1954?????

If she has to drill her hip twist, he should make dinner.

[Hank]

Long time romantic partners often feel comfortable being blunt with each other and will say things to each other that they would not say to someone less intimate. Dance partners have many opportunities to annoy each other, and all those tense arms, broken frames, and sloppy connections add up over time.

Combining high bluntness with high annoyance leads to heated arguments and hurt feelings, which spill over into the personal relationship off the dance floor. "We need to work on our connection" turns into "your connection is bad" turns into "you don't care about me."

[Laura]

I know one couple personally who even say that they broke up over the fighting about dancing, although I think they would have broken up anyway and the dancing just hastened the inevitable.

On the other hand, if you can make it all work out it must be the most amazing thing sharing the love of dance, hard work, adrenaline, and the thrill of achievement.

[Porfirio Landeros]

Hmmmm, I think it works for me :-)

It's true, we can really feel comfortable barking at each other if we don't agree on something. And, we tend to argue less the more often we see our coaches, since they do the criticism and mediate.

I can't argue against partnering with a significant other. I think it makes dancing more fun, since we travel together, and spend time together doing something we both love.

[Warren J. Dew]

I would just note for now that there's a difference between dancing with a romantic partner and competing with a romantic partner.

I've found that competing with a romantic partner is problematic. The main disadvantage from my point of view and that I've heard from other guys is that it seems like the girls have a tendency to take dance criticisms personally, and carry that over into the personal relationship. I'm sure the girls have a different take on the situation, but either way, there's a lot of extra stress.

On the other hand, ballroom dance is fundamentally a romantic activity, so ignoring the competitive aspect, I think that having there be real romance behind the dancing adds a lot.

I'd also note that most of my information comes from partnerships where the man is the more experienced partner; partnerships where the lady has more dance experience may work better.

[Kitty]

I've found that competing with a romantic partner is problematic. The main disadvantage from my point of view and that I've heard from other guys is that it seems like the girls have a tendency to take dance criticisms personally, and carry that over into the personal relationship. I'm sure the girls have a different take on the situation, but either way, there's a lot of extra stress.

On the other hand, ballroom dance is fundamentally a romantic activity, so ignoring the competitive aspect, I think that having there be real romance behind the dancing adds a lot.

but there are so many even very high level competitors who are romantic partners!

Have to agree that I do carry stuff over. That is if I get criticized by my boyfriend a lot, I may be upset. But I don't yell at him. I keep it all inside, just get upset myself.

[Kitty]

I'd also note that most of my information comes from partnerships where the man is the more experienced partner; partnerships where the lady has more dance experience may work better.

Guys dance with less experienced girls cause they can't find a partner of their level, right? So where do high level girls go? All quit?

[pygmalion]

Good question, kitty. I was thinking about Warren's observation, too. My take is that advanced guys directly criticize their partners, so there's a lot of conflict. I bet the advanced girls do what you do, Kitty, and hold it in. Voila! Fewer conflicts. (I'm just guessing, based on my non-dance life. :wink: :lol: )

[delamusica]

If she has to drill her hip twist, he should make dinner.

Perhaps this is a good reason to choose your boyfriend as your dance partner? I can't imagine that my non-dancing boy would let me talk him into making me dinner because I have to work on my hip twist.

*sigh* - it's a dance thing, they just wouldn't understand . . . :)

[delamusica]

I'd also note that most of my information comes from partnerships where the man is the more experienced partner; partnerships where the lady has more dance experience may work better.

Guys dance with less experienced girls cause they can't find a partner of their level, right? So where do high level girls go? All quit?

I think it's easier to work it that way because a good leader can help a talented partner who may be short on some training to get through things - as a follower there's little you can do to help your leader do things.

Advanced girls? Pro-am! Really, I don't know. My coach has tried to train a couple of guys to be my partners, but they always seem to get tired of trying to catch up . . . just a guy thing, I guess.

[Hank]

I've seen quite a few couples who are mismatched ability-wise dancing in collegiate competitions, but I rarely see this at more advanced levels, e.g., pre-champ or champ. When couples are mismatched, my impression is that teachers and judges don't take them seriously and assume that it is going to be a short-lived partnership, which it almost alway is.

[Warren J. Dew]

but there are so many even very high level competitors who are romantic partners!
Yes. One of the advantages that I neglected to mention is that competitive partnerships between people who are involved do tend to last longer, since there's a reason to stay together when the dancing is going badly. This can be a good thing, provided the dancing starts picking up again eventually. Also there are practical conveniences like being able to travel to practices and competitions together.

I think that at the very highest levels, where the competition is so tough in other respects, the reality of the romantic relationship can show through to advantage, too. You could always tell the Hiltons were in love when you watched them dance ... and you could tell how Schiavo and Arzenton's personal relationship was going by watching their dancing, as well.

Have to agree that I do carry stuff over. That is if I get criticized by my boyfriend a lot, I may be upset. But I don't yell at him. I keep it all inside, just get upset myself.
I'm not sure that's better. Guys don't particularly mind getting yelled at, especially by girls. A girlfriend that's just holding it in and being upset is as hard to deal with, in my experience, as one that's yelling.

One thing to watch out for is that more experienced guys tend, I think, to be less patient when critiquing partners they are involved with than ones who are just dance partners. I think it's because we figure we can't just dump our girlfriend as a partner, so anything our girlfriend/partner is doing wrong is not just holding her back, it's also holding us back. But it's not a very constructive attitude, since the critique can't be absorbed any faster no matter how impatient we are ... so one thing you might do when getting criticized is to ask him to slow down and give you time to get each thing and to let you know when you are getting it right before going on to the next thing. Also point it out to him if you think he's keeping you from doing it in some way - preferably in an airheaded blonde way that won't threaten the male ego.

But as others have said, the best thing would be to go to a coach you can both trust, and let the coach do the critiquing.

[Warren J. Dew]

Guys dance with less experienced girls cause they can't find a partner of their level, right? So where do high level girls go? All quit?
Good question. Let's see ... of six female partners trained up by two of the most serious male offenders in the Boston area:

- One trained up her own partner, married him, got divorced, no longer dancing as far as I know

- One now channeling her ballroom energies into training her daughter

- One trained up her own partner, married him, had a kid while husband concentrated on a dance partnership with another woman

- One looking for a partner

- Two married their higher level partners and are currently dancing with them

[cocodrilo]

This may be very cut & dried but it was said to me long ago when I was having a relationship with a guy at my place of work; "Don't sh** where you eat!" To this day, that advice has saved many important business deals!

Obviously, there are some of you out there that are making your on-floor/off-floor relationships work. It's truly admirable, because I think it would be something very hard for me to accomplish!

[salsachinita]

I agree. Not that I do ballroom or compete. But I am declining my dance partner's kind dating offer becuase of the above reasons.

[Kitty]

I think it's easier to work it that way because a good leader can help a talented partner who may be short on some training to get through things - as a follower there's little you can do to help your leader do things.

Advanced girls? Pro-am! Really, I don't know. My coach has tried to train a couple of guys to be my partners, but they always seem to get tired of trying to catch up . . . just a guy thing, I guess.

I have a partner (maybe should now say "had a partner") who was a fast learner and very dedicated, but knew less than me. I didn't think it was hard to help him. It is true that I can "do" more steps than I actually know, if the leader knows them, however, unless the leader could explain to me the details of the girl's part in those steps, I'd never do those steps in competition, because I'd assume I'm probabaly doing something wrong. on the other hand If I know my part well, I usually know the guy's part also, so I could show it to my leader with no problem.

I think, the reason why it is difficult for guys to catch up is because on average majority of guys learn how to dance slower that majority of girls. And also, in standard the guy's role is more complicated than the girl's part, so guys have more to learn (probably not true for latin).

I know 4 guys who were fast learners themselves, and only one of them refused to dance with a higher level girl at some point cause he felt he is holding her back (and the difference was bronse - silver, nothing terrible). Three other guys all have danced with girls who were higher level.

[foursquare]

Genesius wrote: “Personal relationships color performance. The most obvious way is when two people are supposed to be in love onstage, and they're having a romance off. When things are going well, everything looks fine. But when there's a fight, or even worse, a breakup, the whole dynamic can be screwy.”

I’ve not found this to be necessarily true. The whole point of acting is to convey feeling and emotion that you may not personally feel. If you feel like the character you’re playing, where does the acting come in? I’ve been in shows with scenes of romance with chicks I felt absolutely nothing for, I’ve had to kill people onstage that were good friends offstage, I’ve played a transvestite and to this day have no strong desire to dress up in my girlfriends clothing. I didn’t need to feel the part, I just had to act like I felt the emotions the character I was playing was experiencing. You can absolutely despise the person across from you, be it in theatre or in dance, but when the lights go up, hopefully you have the professionalism to make it appear that you don’t.

Genesius wrote: “An arts relationship should be free from all sorts of extra emotional baggage. To enter a shared aesthetic endeavor requires a degree of special trust and self-comfort that you rarely find in love relationships.”

I’ve found the opposite to be true. Love relationships require the trust and self-comfort to be successful. Acting relationships are more like a golf game… the only one you’re playing against is yourself. If I know I’m nailing a scene, why would I be swayed by the opinion of someone who might not agree? (The director is a different matter, but let’s not muddy the waters.) And if I’m doing something and know I absolutely suck, it doesn’t matter how much praise I receive; I’m going to work it until I know I’ve got it.

Genesius wrote: “People are preoccupied about what their boyfriend/girlfriend thinks of them, they're less likely to take risks. Even when they're feeling good about things, the focus tends to be on the offstage relationship, which is far more powerful than the onstage relationship.”

Again, not necessarily true. When my girlfriend and I show up for rehearsal (which we are currently doing… I haven’t danced in a month!) we are there to work on our own parts. Sure, we see each other offstage, and if we both don’t have anything to do at the moment (rare), we’ll chat, but rehearsal time is to rehearse. And when you pursue an artistic endeavor with a boyfriend/girlfriend, dance or theatre, you have a built-in person to work with when you’re not rehearsing. In theatre, you have someone to run lines with, to bounce ideas off of, etc. In dance, you have a dance partner right there, available at any time. Criticism from that person does not have to be antagonistic; if you’re blowing a move, either one of you, and the other person points it out, it gives you a chance to work through it together. Just because you’re working with your BF/GF doesn’t mean you have to be nastier than if you were working with an acquaintance.

Genesius wrote: “Performance relationships are very special, and fragile things. And I like to think of the performance space as a place where people can park all of their outside troubles at the stage door. I don't want to start giving a sermon on establishing a "temple of the arts," but that's not far off from an ideal. And maybe the only reason I wouldn't say "temple" is that this makes it sound too pious and reserved. I'd say instead that performance is a wonderland experience--where all the relationships are whatever we want them to be in the dream, but when Alice comes out of the hole back into the real world, the illusion is gone.”

Boy, do we run with different crowds! The actors I know come with all their outside troubles firmly in tow! The trick there is to leave it offstage. When you’ve been doing theatre for a long time, the line between real world and illusion tends to blur significantly. Both theatre and RL revolve around each other… I review blocking at lunch, I talk about work at rehearsal. I see friends at rehearsal, I have dinner with them when we don’t. Theatre, for me, has produced countless long-time relationships that continue beyond the run of the show.

Genesius wrote: “That's why I choose not to mix a romance with a performance relationship. If you're dancing with someone and you fall for them, there is very little you can do--you just have to deal with it. But I don't think I'd ever choose to do any major competitions (or major theatrical performances) with someone I was already in love with and seeing and dating.”

My girlfriend and I have four shows done together under our belts and we’re still going strong! And we dance together and can point out mistakes without making each other mad. All the little mistakes and idiosnycrasies and blown leads and follows can drive you crazy if you let them. We’ve decided to find them charming. Why would you treat someone you love any differently?

foursquare

[Lioness]

That is what my mum has always stood by, however, I ignored her and went ahead with it.

If you think that your relationship can stand through dancing struggles and conflicts, or that the partnership can last if the relationship breaks up, then go for it with all guns blazing. Dancing with someone you love is a wonderful experience.

My BF and I were dance partners before we were boyfriend and girlfriend. When he asked me I said yes, but made sure he knew my opinion on the matter. We both agreed that we could keep dancing together if we broke up, and while it may be difficult for a while, we could ease back into being friends.

Talk it over with him and see what he thinks. Also, if he is just beginning and you are an experienced dancer, try not to let any frustration you may have show, it will only discourage him and encourage conflict.

Best of luck!

[soshedances]

What Lioness said!

DP-->BF might be easier than BF-->DP, especially if you (the GF) are the more experienced dancer.

[etp777]

It can be done and work well. One of my favorite local pro couples is married and their relationship gives them the best (in my opinion :) ) connection on the floor. That being said, it also can add a lot to the stress. Stress/issues in one relationship spill over into the other, and you lose the ability to get a break from one relationship by indulging in other.

[Benji]

In my experiences I've seen dancing make and break relationships. So I'm basically agreeing to what the others said but personally I wouldn't do it. Too much tension and you might expect too much from your significant other.

[Lioness]

Then unless you are prepared to put up with the frustration of not being able to dance at your normal level until he gets to it, I'd say leave it be and find someone else. This isn't as important if you're not competing, but you still may get frustrated.

[Joe]

If you're that much more experienced it could introduce unnecessary pressures in the non-dance relationship.

[dbk]

It depends on your personality, your relationship, and how well you handle problems with dancing, I think.

Your relationship needs to be able to survive when things aren't romantic; you need to be able to disagree about things without getting angry or taking it personally.

As for your personality, you can't be a sore loser, you can't get angry at dancing and project it on your partner, and you can't want or expect to be right all the time. That will ruin any partnership, with your boyfriend or otherwise.

If you're good at communicating with partners, you don't get angry over not doing as well as you'd hoped, you don't approach partnerships with a sort of "power level" mindset (who's more experienced? who's doing the step worse/better? whose fault is it?), etc. you should be just fine.

I know all of this sounds like basic human decency, but you NEED to be honest with yourself. Don't ask yourself "does all that sound like the right thing to do?," because of course it does! Look at your track record with previous partnerships and how you delt with problems then... because if you have had this kind of negativity in your dancing, it does NOT make you a bad person, but it will bleed over into your relationship. Better to stick with just "a partner" rather than the boyfriend, if that's the case.

[SMF&JLL]

This is coming from a relationship+partnership couple that has had many ups and downs and is actually working well now....

It is very difficult... You really stress your dancing and your relationship, but it can be worked out.

It helps if you have guidance from a pro couple that has made the relationship+dance thing work.

But honestly if you both want to make it work and put the selfishness aside, it will be fine. If your individual priorities distract you from being considerate towards the other person, it will go south quickly.

Honestly our start was the same as yours - experienced female and inexperienced male. That changed very quickly.

The rules are utterly simple, the guys need to be on their very best behavior, and the girls just need to be totally and completely supportive.

If you've ever had a good long run in a relationship+partnership, dancing with a non-SO is never really quite complete. The dancing will save the relationship and the relationship will save the dancing. You just need to struggle through some bad times for it to ever get to that point.

[etp777]

Welcome to DF, SMF&JLL

[latingal]

darn you've been beating me to the punch consistently etp! *grin*

[latingal]

Welcome to DF SMF&JLL!

[ireniecat]

I think the success of your partnership with your boyfriend will depend on both your goals. When my boyfriend and I started dating, I had already been dancing for a couple of years, and he not at all. He took group class with me for a few months (voluntarily!) so I got super excited and decided that if I could get him up to speed, we could partner together. So we started practicing together and I would endlessly correct him and try to push him to get better faster. He ended up getting tired of me always "fixing and criticizing" and stopped coming to classes with me. I was a dumb-dumb head thinking we'd get to compete together... he was just doing it for fun to spend time with me and never had any such intentions.

I'm really glad he stood up to me, rather than allowing me to stay in my fantasy la-la land... because it could have been really messy for him to compete just for me, and not for himself. We've been together 5 years now, and he's my #1 supporter when it comes to my dancing, but I have yet to be able to get him to take another class... not even those free beginner classes they sometimes have.

[Dance808]

I got super excited and decided that if I could get him up to speed, we could partner together. So we started practicing together and I would endlessly correct him and try to push him to get better faster. He ended up getting tired of me always "fixing and criticizing" and stopped coming to classes with me.

I've been where your boyfriend is and it's NO FUN to have your dance partner/significant other trying to improve your dancing, however well intentioned they are. The power imbalance just bleeds over into all other areas of your relationship. That's why many people here say it goes better the more coaching you have -- since someone else provides the criticism. In my case, not even that worked and the relationship (on and off the dance floor) fell apart.

[leilaniana]

I think it really depends on the relationship, the communication skills between both partners, and the dancing goals of each person.

In my situation, my husband is also my instructor. For me, dancing is something new that I have always wanted to try. Now that I have, I found I truly enjoy it and am excited about it. I'd like to do the showcases, the competitions, etc. Whereas for him, it has been his job for the last 9 years, so while he supports my wanting to do this, he doesn't have that shared uber enthusiasm.

There is also the fact that since we are both comfortable with expressing ourselves with each other, frustration during a lesson because I can't fully get something I'm supposed sometimes turned into frustration at each other.

This is where good communication comes into play. We finally had a long talk about it all. He realized that I wasn't upset at him, rather I was upset at myself for not understanding what I was supposed to be doing, combined with the feeling that I was disappointing him for not doing well. And he wasn't frustrated at me, rather he was frustrated that he couldn't help me get past something.

So I guess it depends on the two people. And if you do run into problems, you have to ask yourself if it is worth possibly damaging the relationship while trying to continue the dance partnership. Or would it be better to just find a different partner.

[Joe]

Jeez, 14 posts...short stay.

[leilaniana]

What?

Jeez, 14 posts...short stay.

[etp777]

He's not talking about you leilaniana, referring to Taty07

[waltzguy]

This is coming from a relationship+partnership couple that has had many ups and downs and is actually working well now....

It is very difficult... You really stress your dancing and your relationship, but it can be worked out.

It helps if you have guidance from a pro couple that has made the relationship+dance thing work.

But honestly if you both want to make it work and put the selfishness aside, it will be fine. If your individual priorities distract you from being considerate towards the other person, it will go south quickly.

Honestly our start was the same as yours - experienced female and inexperienced male. That changed very quickly.

The rules are utterly simple, the guys need to be on their very best behavior, and the girls just need to be totally and completely supportive.

If you've ever had a good long run in a relationship+partnership, dancing with a non-SO is never really quite complete. The dancing will save the relationship and the relationship will save the dancing. You just need to struggle through some bad times for it to ever get to that point.


Welcome to DF, SMF&JLL. Your first post was quite a good one! :-)

[leilaniana]

The dancing will save the relationship and the relationship will save the dancing. You just need to struggle through some bad times for it to ever get to that point.

I think in my case, the relationship definitely saved the dancing. Somehow I doubt that it will happen the other way around, but it is a beautiful idea.

[leilaniana]

He's not talking about you leilaniana, referring to Taty07

Oh, gotcha. I noticed I had 14 posts too, and I didn't know if something happened to my account. ;)

[chocolatchica]

It has proven to always end bad for me but like leilaniana (http://dance-forums.com/member.php?u=41092) stated, it depends on the relationship and the people. Some people can separate their relationship from their dancing. My partner and I had a tough time doing that. Give it a try and if it doesn't work it doesn't work. If it does then hats off to you =)

[reb]

It has proven to always end bad for me but like leilaniana (http://dance-forums.com/member.php?u=41092) stated, it depends on the relationship and the people. Some people can separate their relationship from their dancing. My partner and I had a tough time doing that. Give it a try and if it doesn't work it doesn't work. If it does then hats off to you =)

Hi chica - long time no see!

[reb]

story known to many, but relevant to this thread - its not all bad . . .

met girl at dance camp
fell in love
dated cross-country by meeting at comps on weekends
became Amateur partners too
married
lady turned pro (so I guess that falls into the split category ;))
the story's not over, just started
We learned a very important lesson from one of our teachers - she said to never try to fix the other. She said when we disagreed, to bring it to her and she would decide. It worked.

Even though Borbala could have taught me more (as a well-trained Amateur out of European, Russian, and Japanese schools), she was able to control herself! Which is probably nothing next to keeping me from trying to fix everything!! :D

I highly recommend this approach of bringing things to a teacher - a trusted 3rd party - of course it also helps to find someone who has a good spirit inside . . .

[etp777]

hadn't thought of that, but can see that it'd fix a LOT of problems I've seen in pro couples, dating/married or not.

And yeah, clearly has worked. Was hoping you'd chime in here reb. :)

[emkey]

we have a real couple dancing in our club as well and they actually dance really well as the girl was a ballerina before they do sometimes well not really fight but sometimes I hear them complain that the guy isn't leading enough and stuff but they tend to get a long well.

[BasicsFirst]

I'm with PL. In fact, we had (maybe still have) the reputation of being the couple that "never" fights. We certainly DO have our "moments", but we keep them discreet and yes we ARE able to NOT take it home with us.

[Standarddancer]

story known to many, but relevant to this thread - its not all bad . . .

met girl at dance camp
fell in love
dated cross-country by meeting at comps on weekends
became Amateur partners too
married
lady turned pro (so I guess that falls into the split category ;))
the story's not over, just started
We learned a very important lesson from one of our teachers - she said to never try to fix the other. She said when we disagreed, to bring it to her and she would decide. It worked.

Even though Borbala could have taught me more (as a well-trained Amateur out of European, Russian, and Japanese schools), she was able to control herself! Which is probably nothing next to keeping me from trying to fix everything!! :D

I highly recommend this approach of bringing things to a teacher - a trusted 3rd party - of course it also helps to find someone who has a good spirit inside . . .

reb, your story is absolutely lovely!!! but in reality, the couple has to be able to resolve things and work things out more or less by themselves as well. Otherwise, the poor teacher gonna to take the burden to resolve every single issue of the couple, technical problem on a regular basis ok, but I've seen teachers eventually become couples' "marriage consultant", that's just too much work for the teacher.

[samina]

story known to many, but relevant to this thread - its not all bad . . .

met girl at dance camp
fell in love
dated cross-country by meeting at comps on weekends
became Amateur partners too
married
lady turned pro (so I guess that falls into the split category ;))
the story's not over, just started
We learned a very important lesson from one of our teachers - she said to never try to fix the other. She said when we disagreed, to bring it to her and she would decide. It worked.

Even though Borbala could have taught me more (as a well-trained Amateur out of European, Russian, and Japanese schools), she was able to control herself! Which is probably nothing next to keeping me from trying to fix everything!! :D

I highly recommend this approach of bringing things to a teacher - a trusted 3rd party - of course it also helps to find someone who has a good spirit inside . . .

i always love being reminded of your beautiful story...

[reb]

the couple has to be able to resolve things and work things out more or less by themselves as well. Otherwise, the poor teacher gonna to take the burden to resolve every single issue of the couple, technical problem on a regular basis

You're absolutely right.

I think the key was in the details of the phrase of "not trying to fix the other" - but that doesn't preclude working hard through things and working the discovery process. Thanks for bringing this up so we are not unintentionally misleading.

I think these two thoughts (a) working through things together AND (b) taking things to an expert are symbiotic and a smart/considerate couple finds that wavy boundary line.

I agree - if/when two smart/considerate people are working through details and disagree on something involving dance expertise, bring in the expert who's been there before and can observe both from their unique vantage point of the expert 3rd party.

I agree - to emphasize the point that its not or shouldn't be marriage counseling - it about dance expertise - and the reason one seeks expert dance advice is not to settle a feud between two im-mature people, but to provide dance expertise. (although I believe this learning how to work through things together where I was not the expert and being able to table things fed back very positive lessons learned into my/our personal lives!).

Ballroom has the distinction of two people so intertwined. This principle of sport-expertise-coaching seems straightforward in golf and other competitive sports. A danger to avoid is it becoming a point of pride that a couple will fix it themselves come hell or high water, especially when one member of the couple is much better than the other, or the guy tries to fix everything because he's a guy and that's what we do, or the lady tries to teach the guy because he's sooooo slow.

Its not a cookie cutter one-size-fits-all approach since we're all people ;)

[fascination]

i always love being reminded of your beautiful story...
it is a lovely thing to behold

[taylor1990]

As long as you are both really committed to the dancing and want it equally. If one of you is more focused on the dancing than the other or wants it more, then this could lead to problems in your relationship. Plus you have the issue of taking the stress of dancing home with you. People generally say that couples shouldn't work together because people need to have some aspects of their lives separate from their partner. Otherwise, you'll just get sick of each other. I could see having your wife/husband as your dance partner, but as far as a boyfriend/girlfriend, I would stay away from that, especially if you really want the relationship to work. Or if you're going to partner with him/her anyway, then just make sure that you two have something that is separate from each other.

[Standarddancer]

You're absolutely right.

I think the key was in the details of the phrase of "not trying to fix the other" - but that doesn't preclude working hard through things and working the discovery process. Thanks for bringing this up so we are not unintentionally misleading.

I think these two thoughts (a) working through things together AND (b) taking things to an expert are symbiotic and a smart/considerate couple finds that wavy boundary line.

I agree - if/when two smart/considerate people are working through details and disagree on something involving dance expertise, bring in the expert who's been there before and can observe both from their unique vantage point of the expert 3rd party.

I agree - to emphasize the point that its not or shouldn't be marriage counseling - it about dance expertise - and the reason one seeks expert dance advice is not to settle a feud between two im-mature people, but to provide dance expertise. (although I believe this learning how to work through things together where I was not the expert and being able to table things fed back very positive lessons learned into my/our personal lives!).

Ballroom has the distinction of two people so intertwined. This principle of sport-expertise-coaching seems straightforward in golf and other competitive sports. A danger to avoid is it becoming a point of pride that a couple will fix it themselves come hell or high water, especially when one member of the couple is much better than the other, or the guy tries to fix everything because he's a guy and that's what we do, or the lady tries to teach the guy because he's sooooo slow.

Its not a cookie cutter one-size-fits-all approach since we're all people ;)

Very beautifully analyzed. Nothing could be worth than couples fixing each other; You guys are one of the few worked things out by being kind and considerate, plus you have a wonderful teacher, that's really important; I agree that take the technical issues to teacher theory, but how often the couples with level difference have to take lessons per week with the trusted 3rd party (teacher)? or the trusted teacher just have to be there everyday to watch the couple (supervising practice)? or the couple make their notes of things they disagree and take to the teacher if they don't see the teacher on a daily basis (it's financially difficult to take lessons everyday, right?)

[akn124]

I've done this and i don't recommend it AT ALL. Every little thing becomes too personal and you take the problem/argument back home. And any relationship problems you have outside of dancing will show in your practices. Plus because you are comfortable with each other in that sense, you both won't be afraid to show and express those emotions to each other during practices and you won't be afraid to speak your opinion or the truth, which can lead to disaster. NEVER DANCE WITH YOUR BF/GF WIFE/HUSBAND!

[reb]

uh -oh , then I wonder what makes the world go round . . . :D

[Standarddancer]

to OP: very risky situation you are getting into, giving the fact that you are different level, unless you guys are both kind or considerate like Reb & Borbala; or you could afford to have the financial resource to take lessons at least 3 times a week with a trusted teacher, or someone trusted available to watch you practice on a regular basis (supervised practice); Supervised practice helps the couple don't get a chance to start their "discussion" or get duct tape from Larinda to tape mouth of the more advanced partner who tends to teach/overcorrecting the other;) just my two cents.

If you truly believe your bf has extradinary talent to catch up your level so quickly and not likely for you to suffer any frustration, then ask a trusted teacher's opinion about his potential and make an evaluation with your trusted teacher together. If both your trusted teacher and you believe he has such great passion and talent so he will only take a short period of time to catch up your level (also depends on his financial if he could also afford take single lessons besides your joint lessons with a good instructor), then ignore my previous advise and go ahead.

[AngelSakuya]

hii all!!

i just want to share my experience of dancing with a bf..

im currently having this problem with my bf at the moment... he is more experienced than me and has danced with more experienced girls.

so it can be stressful at some times when i dont understand a move and ask him questions and it frustrates him..

my timing can sometimes be off when we do competitions so when we have upcoming competitions, i BEG him him to go and practice but he never does - cos he's lllaaazzzzzyyyy!!!!! (and thinks he doesnt need it)

we just returned from a competition and we did beginners waltz, quickstep, cha and jive... although my timing was off, we didnt do too bad... came 5th ;) but there were times when he BLAMED me for everything from him missing a step in jive and soemhow its my fault.

but what hurts the most is when he said to me: 'you're a "bad" dancer!!'
i CRIED and CRIED until i reached home.. i never felt so useless in my life and i wanted QUIT dancing there and then.

for me and my bf.. it doesnt quite work out although im trying to have everything ie the perfect DP and a BF.
and im quite stupid to think he'll change his attitude towards me.

at the moment im comtemplating whether to:
a) try and find a new partner which is going to be hard
b) not do competitions until i improve on timing techniques etc

any ideas? :p

[Nybz]

hii all!!

i just want to share my experience of dancing with a bf..

im currently having this problem with my bf at the moment... he is more experienced than me and has danced with more experienced girls.

so it can be stressful at some times when i dont understand a move and ask him questions and it frustrates him..

my timing can sometimes be off when we do competitions so when we have upcoming competitions, i BEG him him to go and practice but he never does - cos he's lllaaazzzzzyyyy!!!!! (and thinks he doesnt need it)

we just returned from a competition and we did beginners waltz, quickstep, cha and jive... although my timing was off, we didnt do too bad... came 5th ;) but there were times when he BLAMED me for everything from him missing a step in jive and soemhow its my fault.

but what hurts the most is when he said to me: 'you're a s*** dancer!!'
i CRIED and CRIED until i reached home.. i never felt so useless in my life and i wanted QUIT dancing there and then.

for me and my bf.. it doesnt quite work out although im trying to have everything ie the perfect DP and a BF.
and im quite stupid to think he'll change his attitude towards me.

at the moment im comtemplating whether to:
a) try and find a new partner which is going to be hard
b) not do competitions until i improve on timing techniques etc

any ideas? :p

Break up with him, then go become amazingly good and mock him? :bkick:
He sounds like an "jerk" and deserves crap for it.

[Larinda McRaven]

Guys, please don't cuss in the forums. We do have minors here.

[Nybz]

Ahh sorry, thanks for edit, thats works just as well.

[Larinda McRaven]

thanks :winks:

[chocolatchica]

Hi chica - long time no see!
Been busy with school. Missed everyone!:D
Sorry back to the topic at hand.....

[DL]

but what hurts the most is when he said to me: 'you're a "bad" dancer!!'


It's surprising how deeply, particularly for the beginner dancer, this cuts to the quick when stated or even merely implied. Dancing certainly is far from an unemotional undertaking.

However, FWIW, one definitely does gain confidence with hard work, persistence, time, patience, and accomplishment. In this respect, dancing is not really all that different from anything else in life.

Of course, it's tough to have all those things if dancing is purely a source of unhappiness or frustration. So my advice is to find some corner of dancing that's frivolous, care-free, and just for you -- without care for anyone else's opinions or measurement of progress. For example, I practice mostly standard, but drop in on salsa classes now and then as an escape. I don't worry too much about technique and don't have a salsa partner. I definitely don't coordinate with my standard partner, for salsa classes. I just enjoy the group classes as a single drop-in, and try to pick up some variety of moves that I can lead adequately at ballroom socials if they play a salsa. I'm certainly not much of a salsa dancer, but then it's purely just-for-fun, and I don't owe anybody practice time, competition results, or the like.

[AngelSakuya]

DL: i was thinking of that as well going to a social night in my dance school and just have FUN :) and i think along the way i can improve my timing and rhythm especially when im feeling happy rather than upset.. ;)

[waltzguy]

sorry to hear that, AngelSakuya

[Standarddancer]

sorry to hear that Angelsakuya, its difficult for partners to work out with different level, even for those not involved

[AngelSakuya]

awww you guys are sweet :kitty:

im always finding a way to just carry on basically. i know i can become a really good dancer if i have positive supporters lik my friends, families and DF!!! :D

[Ravenmoon]

I like dancing competatively with my significant other, however, as others have pointed out, it can put a lot of stress on your relationship. The biggest thing my partner/boyfriend and I have tried to do is to "leave it on the dance floor" and not bring dance into other issues. You also have to make sure that your goals match or at least similar and that your practicing styles are similar. For example, I'm the type that likes to work and work at it until I get my technique, step, etc correct, however, my partner doesn't want to practice that way. He doesn't want to practice the same thing for hours on end, so caused some tension between us, but we both learned to back off and come to happy medium.

[DancinProf]

My husband and I dance competitively and although we have the occasional tiff, it has worked out really well. He is more relaxed, creative, and outgoing while I am more analytical and intellectual, so we balance each other: I'm the technician and manager, he's the cheerleader, showman, and maker-of-friends. From the beginning we have agreed that we would succeed or fail as a team, so when I get fed up with his laid-back approach (usually I'm the one that gets frustrated, not he) I can easily remind myself "You can't do this without him!". I can't imagine putting in the time & travel commitment that competition requires with anyone but my SO, although I know plenty of people do.

I wonder if one's answer to this question varies depending on whether the SO was a boyfriend/girlfriend first or a dance partner first? My husband was my dance partner before we started dating and eventually got married. (everybody: "Awww!")

[waltzguy]

Awww! :p