Watching Beginners

[Chris Stratton]

I've recently been thinking about some of the things I've observed in watching very new beginners - both in social settings, and the less-prepared contestants in newcomer competitions.

Lots of people seem very heavy on their feet. With the men, sometimes it even looks like their feet are too heavy. And I have to wonder if the street shoes play a role - really, a man's ballroom shoe can seem to a guy like it has more in common with a ballet slipper or a pair of gloves than it does with those battleships with their inch-thick rubber armor we wear in semi-formal settings these days. Shoes like that mean business - when you take a step in them you are GOING somewhere, and the rest of your body is going too. But ballroom seems to require a different take - one of placing the feet and then carefully shifting your weight (edit - in the latin dances and in tango. In the smooth dances the body has to move with the foot). Until they figure this out, men trying to walk in closed hold with a woman tend to either be nearly paralyzed by fear of running her rover, or simply neglect to take her into account at all.

Many women tend to do better on this score - either from previous training in other dance forms, simply less body inertia, or perhaps some degree of attitude that there's more to walking than just getting somewhere. But even still, there are a lot of ladies who look unstable on their feet - stepping from ball of foot to ball of foot, making "hopping" rather than smooth weight transfers, etc. Some of that may be adaptation to unstable social heels - I don't really know. But the net effect is that even though the women don't tend to take big clumsy movements, many don't really move much more smoothly than the men.

Of course I'm not trying to put anyone's intitial efforts down - more just wondering if anyone has made similar obvservations. And more importantly, if anyone has ideas on how to ease people past this stage - without an intesive competition-style training program, and without forcing an investment in dance shoes.

[Hank]

A common problem during smooth dancing causing heaviness is failure to do heel heads and toe releases.

A common problem in latin dancing causing heaviness is lack of foot articulation, e.g., stepping on the entire foot at once rather than ball and then heel, or pushing off from the entire foot instead of lifting the heel and then the ball.

Another common problem causing heaviness is failure to maintain split weight on rock steps by putting the heel down and transfering weight all the way back, which can happen during latin or swing dancing.

[Chris Stratton]

A common problem during smooth dancing causing heaviness is failure to do heel heads and toe releases.

Agreed, but I think it's more a symptom than the cause - people don't do these things because they aren't comfortable using their feet & legs in ways that would make them possible. It isn't that they don't want to take a heel lead or do a toe release - it's that they can't get their body to a position from which it feels natural to step on the heel or release the toe. Though actually, I sometimes see mistaken heel leads in latin in addition to the lack of heel leads in standard - people do whatever is consistent with the way they are comfortable moving.


A common problem in latin dancing causing heaviness is lack of foot articulation, e.g., stepping on the entire foot at once rather than ball and then heel, or pushing off from the entire foot instead of lifting the heel and then the ball.

Another common problem causing heaviness is failure to maintain split weight on rock steps by putting the heel down and transfering weight all the way back, which can happen during latin or swing dancing.

Actually, in those situations particularly in latin, I think part of the problem may be over-using the standard leg. I know that as a primarily standard dancer, it took me a long time to kill that habit. For example, in jive, if you try to launch yourself out of the departing leg, you will fly out of control - it's really hard to switch to working the arriving leg while just letting the departing leg nearly drag into place underneath you. I found that particularly hard in the chasse out of the rock step, since after the kind of full weight tranfer you caution against, I'd go flying into the chasse with power from my standing leg.

Perhaps you could sum all of this up and say that beginners have trouble adapting to the idea that ballroom motions have different proportional stresses on the various pieces than walking motions do. (Edit: Ironically, at some point an advanced form of something like foxtrot does get back to simple everyday walking - but you almost have to detour before you can do it that way)

[Warren J. Dew]

I agree that technique is important, and I also agree that some street shoes interfere with proper use of the feet. However, I think the main cause of the 'heavy' look is a comparative lack of foot and ankle strength, which causes some beginners to have to plant their weight directly over the center of the foot rather than being able to maintain balance while rolling the weight forward towards the toes.

I think beginner women are better on average because they are more likely to have some prior experience in another form of dance. Heels also encourage some development of foot and ankle strength, but I don't think very many women wear heels as daily wear any more ... come to think of it, a lot of people just plain don't walk very much any more, which may also be an issue (and a reason to take up dancing).

As for fixing it without resorting to a competition regimen, I think plenty of dancing and a good instructor are the best bet.

[mamboqueen]

You're reminding me of the guy in "Shall We Dance," and how he started his lessons. Remember, the 3 beginner guys standing in a row doing clunky QQS steps??!! I see plenty of woman making those kinds of steps, too. I don't think we're immune. I think when beginners are learning, it's just too much to throw "toe heel, heel toe, toe, etc" at them while they're just trying to learn steps. And you're right, if you haven't had exposure to some other dance discipline, it's unlikely to come naturally.

Kind of makes me wish I had tapes of my beginning classes.

Naaaahhhh!!!

[Chris Stratton]

I guess I don't see footwork as being a virtue of it's own merit. Footwork is stressed because it is an enabling requirement for smooth fully developed actions, but when I watch people at the early stages they seem to be struggling with a more fundamental concept.

I"m not doing well at putting the issue I'm talking about in words, but it's sort of equal parts knowing how to intitiate the step in a coordinated way, and knowing how far you should actually go after a given setup. Also, the whole business of how & when to change weight.

Warren is of course right that a lot of this is built around rolling through the foot you are leaving, but I still see a lot of problems even when people are taking small enough steps that they really don't need to use the feet very much.

Also I disagree that a good instructor & practice is enough - there are too many people who have been in group classes with top instructors for years, who learn many details of a dance and can sort of walk through it, but never learn to roll through their feet at all, and so will never do more than imitate the dance. Despite being stuck in a dead end position, they are quite a bit more competent than most social beginners - which makes their situation a bit of a different problem.

[Sagitta]

Perhaps a beginner perspective might be useful. I think it is a matter of feeling the difference. I was working on my waltz basic last Monday -- I'm a total beginner!!

Anyway, someone was watching me and said you are not doing your heel leads properly. He worked with me on them and I immeditaely felt the difference. I had to stop as I have major toe problems, but I know what it feels like to do a proper heel lead.

Then when doing twinkles. E.g. you start right foot at an angle, left foot rise, bringing your right foot in and turn, and going down on your right foot. The same person, Brian, told me don't go completely flat footed, but stay on your ball, going down on your next step, only to rise bring your foot and turn... My twinkles dramatically improved. :)

[Laura]

Just as an offhand remark -- I love watching beginners. They are so intense, so studious, they try so hard, they are so enthusiastic, they have so much fun and excitement and joy in what they do.

I went through a period of extreme burnout and so started a few activities that I was a beginner in so I could experience that kind of energy again for myself, and it helped me immensely.

You GO beginners! Don't ever worry about looking stupid, and just keep working at your own pace and enjoying what you do.

[Chris Stratton]

Absolutely agree with Laura - it is great watching beginners figuring things out fo the first time, and enjoying the discovery of realizing that dancing is something they can do!

At the same time though - when people seem to be having trouble, working hard but still finding it difficult - then the engineer in me tries to 'debug' the problems I see (as a mental exercise - I'd try not to say anything unless they were people I knew, or they asked).

[Sagitta]

Come around to where I am and I'll pester you no end. I love helping people out. I gravitate to them and then they start following me around to dances and at dances. :? (If you love something don't you want to let other people see the same joy/pleasure that you have?) Anyway, I'm always on the lookout of those whom I can ask. I'll keep you in mind if I ever come down your way. You might eventually feel the need to grab a partner and dance away though. :wink: :)

[Warren J. Dew]

Warren is of course right that a lot of this is built around rolling through the foot you are leaving, but I still see a lot of problems even when people are taking small enough steps that they really don't need to use the feet very much.
Actually I was thinking more of rolling through the foot you are arriving on, as opposed to plunking your weight down directly into the center of the foot. Shoes may prevent articulation of the ball of the foot and the use of the toes, but they shouldn't prevent articulation at the ankle and use of the heel.

Agreed about how it's fun to watch beginners - especially as they often improve so fast!

[Laura]

It's interesting what you mention about shoes preventing articulation of the foot. I've found that different brands of ballroom shoes are stiffer than others, something that beginners might not realize. I once, for forgotten reasons, bought a pair of Coast shoes online for social dancing. They were so stiff I couldn't roll at all, so I sent them back.

[Sagitta]

Warren is of course right that a lot of this is built around rolling through the foot you are leaving, but I still see a lot of problems even when people are taking small enough steps that they really don't need to use the feet very much.
Actually I was thinking more of rolling through the foot you are arriving on, as opposed to plunking your weight down directly into the center of the foot. Shoes may prevent articulation of the ball of the foot and the use of the toes, but they shouldn't prevent articulation at the ankle and use of the heel.


Makes a big difference, just as in salsa for latin motion and giving a visual impression of constant motion. I totally agree.

[KevinL]

Absolutely agree with Laura - it is great watching beginners figuring things out fo the first time, and enjoying the discovery of realizing that dancing is something they can do!

Yes, watching people as they realize that dancing is something they can do is incredibly rewarding. That's why I'm a dance teacher, the joy I get from teaching people to dance is incredible! I don't get that same kind of positive feedback from my day job as a molecular biologist.

Kevin

[mamboqueen]

That's great to hear, Kevin. I often wonder if my instructor is bored with teaching me bronze/silver level when he has all these high level people who really make him work!

[Sabor]

well.. as is mentioned, they are beginners.. they will get it right in time hopefully..

as to the shoes and its effect.. if we are talking social dance.. well it sure makes a difference at some stage.. but personally i will dance smooth wether i'm wearing normal shoes/sneakers or ballroom .. ofcourse i will be more danceable in ballroom shoes but the difference is more felt by me than seen by others as far as my experience go

and as for men or women being generally clumsier to start with.. i cant say i've noticed one sex being this or that over the other.. depends on each individual far as i noticed.

[Purr]

Sometimes I think though, that the more I learn the less I know.

[spatten]

In my opinion, the problem you are describing is also largely attributed to an incorrect hold between the partners - as much as in undeveloped footwork.

I believe the men are so hesitant to step they are not comfortable and take awkward strides just to make sure they do not step on their partner.
If from the very beginning the lady is offset to the right, something I don't see taught at beginning levels, the man can be confident of not stepping on the lady. Much too often beginners line up directly in front of each other. The lady doesn't get her foot out of the way, and the man doesn't have the confidence or ability to step well.

I have taken my college ballroom class, on the first day each semester and put them into a good position. I suggest to them to walk back and forth across the floor in this posistion several times. You would be suprised how well these student walks start looking after a half an hour. Perhaps better than students I have seen take several hours at a private studio from mediocre teachers.