Top Teacher Awards

[pygmalion]

At a dance competition I attended recently, I was appalled to see that the person who won the top teacher award in the pro-am competition was actually the top salesman. He had one student who was the "top student," and who apparently bought a boatload of entries. The problem? Neither of them could dance. I'm not exaggerating. It was hideous to watch.

Okay. So a couple questions. Are all dance comps structured that way? Why? And if you could pick a "top teacher," what would your criteria be? Should there be top teacher awards for technical or competitive merit? Could that work?

[delamusica]

At most of the competitions that I've been to, the teachers recieve one "point" for every entry, and then extra points for the placement of their students (for example, 3 for a 1st place, 2 for a 2nd, and 1 for a 3rd). That seems to strike a prettry decent compromise between selling entries and producing quality students.

[Purr]

Yes, it's true that teachers receive points for placements besides number of entries.

Pygmalion, I witnessed such a situation at the last competition I went to. I just wondered how the teacher, and especially the poor student, had the stamina to survive the competition.

[pygmalion]

Yup. Ugly, isn't it? What made me notice was that their dancing was SO bad that I specifically looked up the couple. I couldn't tell by watching, who was the teacher and who was the student. They were both THAT BAD. Oh my goodness. And still, he won top teacher; she won top student. :?

[Purr]

That probably happens a lot more than you think.

It's also occured to me that it's possible for a student to "buy" a top a student award, if the student maximizes out the number of possible entries.

[Larinda McRaven]

Oh my goodness. And still, he won top teacher; she won top student. :?

Yes. Top Teacher/Student doesn't represent the "Best Teacher/Student", but to instead acknowledge an amatuer/pro that worked their butt off, regardless of proficiency. The award isn't "top quality dancer award" It is an award to commend the teacher (or student), that particulat weekend, that work the hardest and most.

[Purr]

Those teachers and students are surely dancing machines.

[pygmalion]

True. Dancing a couple hundred entries in one day must be a killer, even if the dancing is bad.

[Purr]

I'd be looking for the epsom salt bath for my poor feet. Not to mention the peppermint foot lotion. :)

[pygmalion]

I think this is a tricky situation. I think teachers deserve to be well paid for all the work they do, and the top teacher award helps to do that. That's fine and fair.

And dance competitions are money-making institutions. That's also fair. This is a capitalistic society/world. If competitions didn't make money, there would be a whole lot fewer competitions out there for lowly and not-so-lowly dance competitors' benefit. So, if competition organizers want to pay teachers purses as incentive for bringing in the most money? That's fine by me. 8)

The reason I asked the question was not to start a (okay another LOL) long diatribe against the inequities of the existing dance studio/instruction system as it exists. I wanted to find out whether there are incentives out there for good pro-am teachers and student dancers -- not necessarily the ones bringing in the big bucks -- the ones bringing quality dancing to the table. Is there a way to reward THOSE people, too? Could that work? If so, how?

I'm not talking the big name comps here. At those, the level of dancing, from all I hear, is consistently quite high.

[Purr]

I agree that dance competitions are money-making institutions, but I'm not sure how fair that is. As far as I can see it, the teacher stands to make money from the student in a number of ways from a competition:

1) the number of lessons taken before a competition
2) charge per dance for a competition
3) charge per day for a competion
4) top teacher prize money and/or bonus money for number of entries

[Purr]

Competitions have scholarship events for students, but the amounts seem small in comparision to the entry fees and everything else associated with a competition. I haven't entered any of these events.

[dancin dude]

While it is true the top teacher award goes to an instructor with a large number of entries, it is usually more placement oriented than one would think. Most events give 1 point for each entry. From there you get 2 points for every call back from a preliminary round. Then; 8 points for every first place award, 7 for second, 6 for third, 5 for fourth, 4 for fifth, 3 for sixth, 2 for seventh and 1 point for eigth. Multi dance events are awarded 15 points and down for 2-3 dance events and 30 points down for 4-5 dance events. Entries that are uncontested are only awarded 1/2 points. I have been in many competitions where an instructor with fewer entries was placed higher than another due to placements and quality of dancing. However, as is the case in the comp refferenced it can happen that a teacher who is less proficcient wins, although, this is usually only at smaller competitions.
Also, most events have a limit as top the number of entries a student is eligible for. The most you can do is 2 age categories and 2 levels. At some this is interpreted as Intermediate and Full bronze, some interpret it as Bronze and Silver. It really depends on the event.
The bottom line however is that a competition is in theory a money making event. Therefore the financial awards are generally presented to, as in any business, the individuals making the largest contributions to the event.
I agree that there could be another type of award given. A great way is similar to the "Top Gun" Awards given in Milwaukee at the Wisconsin State Championships. The entries are averaged and the highest average wins. Therefore it doesn't matter if you dance 50 entries ar 350. Once you have a minimum number of entries danced to make it fair, an average is an average no matter what.

[Purr]

The event I saw this happen was a moderately sized competition.

[pygmalion]

I agree that dance competitions are money-making institutions, but I'm not sure how fair that is. As far as I can see it, the teacher stands to make money from the student in a number of ways from a competition:

1) the number of lessons taken before a competition
2) charge per dance for a competition
3) charge per day for a competion
4) top teacher prize money and/or bonus money for number of entries

I'll get off my soapbox now. :)

Sounds like you're not buying my "capitalism works" argument, Purr. :wink: That's okay. It's just my opinion. I'm a moderator, not a sage. 8) And the only comp experience I've had was with a very honest teacher who charged a fair markup and was very straightforward with us in terms of how the pro-am process works.

Does anybody have a different experience or view, good or bad? (Not just Purr. No pressure here. :wink: 8) )

[DanceAm]

It is still a balance of many entries and placements.

I like how Larinda pointed out it was an award for who worked the hardest at the competion. Yes, in the case mentioned above, the single teacher worked very hard that weekend. But rather than shoot for quality, he went for volume. Comps also can have a minimum number of entries to qualify for the Top Teacher, that ensures enough money is being generated by heat fees to pay for the prize money. I have noticed that some comps require students dancing in Scholarship events to also compete in some of the Single dance heats. So you don't have a ringer just dancing scholarship events and taking home all the money. I am sure they have other reasons to justify this, but it would seem very hard to come home with more money than was paid out by the student.

These incentives give teachers a chance to get recognized for hard work other than competing in the Pro Events. But I tend to think of Pro/Am comps as an opportunity for Pros to get expenses of competing paid for by the students. Prize money is not enough to pay Professional Competitors and neither are commercial sponsorships. It never seems to draw enough spectators like sporting events do to just have professional events without all the ProAm events, at least in the US. But at least this event gives the student a chance to participate in the comp and share in the thrill. But is it shameless for a teacher/competing pro to price a package to one student so he/she can take his/her partner to compete? Then if the studio is involved, the student has to pay for the Studio's cut as well. That one student seems to take on the costs of loss time at the studio, traval for 3 people, lodging and meals? I saw a comp priced for over 9000 bucks, 2 states away and it didn't include heat fees. The heat fees were 90 bucks each. (This was after the studio markup) Most single dance heat fees range from 15 to 35 dollars each as the cost to the studio.

If I take Ben Ermis for example, he danced in Atlanta last weekend with Ruthie Perkins. He didn't dance in any of the professionals heats with Shalene as he did many comps before. This tells me that he takes his student's Pro/Am competing very seriously, not just his own professional career. I don't know why Shalene wasn't there, but it still shows that Ben is willing to go just for his student's sake. I also remember a comp where Ben danced so many dances that he was just too tired to dance the pro event. Maybe there is more to the story, but it still shows that the pro/am portion is still just as important as the professional. Then there was another pro I saw who danced her student through every possible bronze dance and age level, even dances that he was obviously not prepard for, then danced her pro heat. It seemed that student was only there to offset the expenses.

I guess being part of an amateur couple and part of an independant studio, my cost for competing has nothing to do with my teacher or my studio. We started out with USABDA events where we filled out our own registrations and paid the costs directly to the studio organizer. We now do the same for NDCA comps. Our teacher doesn't go along and our studio doesn't get paid based on their package. We fill out our own registrations, either choose a package from the comp organizer or make our own travel arrangements. The one thing we don't do is share our pricing with Pro/am students in the studio. We do that as a courtesy to the instructors and if they want to reveal their costs to the student, it is their perogitive.

Our current instructor is actually from a franchise and she never saw the registration forms from a Pro/Am comp. The studio provided her with package prices and she sold those. She was amazed at the pricing being so low. Once she saw the cost and she remembered how much she got paid, she realized how the studio made a killing off the comps. Some organizers will not send the info directly to us, so we have it sent to the Studio and pick it up there. I guess to them it would be like revealing wholesale costs. Times are changing and with the Internet, it is available to anyone to download registration forms.

[Purr]

DanceAm, you've made a lot of good points. :)

[pygmalion]

I believe that the abuses you cite do happen. There are also some very good and honest pro/am dancers out there, who have no intention of fleecing their innocent students. There are both, I think, and that's why it's important for amateur dancers to ask questions and be aware of what's going on.

Information is available to people with good networks. Unfortunately, many comps keep the wholesale price of pro/am heats concealed from students; only pros have access to that info, in many cases. But many comps do publish wholesale cost of heats on their web sites, and even if that's not available, there is nothing to stop me from befriending a dance pro and asking them. It behooves students to find out if the information they need is available.

Also, teachers deserve to be paid, for their time and their work. There has to be a happy middle ground somewhere, in between cheating teachers out of fair compensation and cheating students out of reasonable prices.

[Laura]

The only thing that allows the abuse to continue is lack of information. If a teacher or studio keeps their students in the dark, or if a student is never curious enough to use resources like friends and the Internet to get answers, then there's not much anyone can do about it. I've always been treated fairly, both in my days at a major franchised studio and also with my independent teacher -- but then I've always asked questions and have always refused to spend more money than I could actually afford.

[mamboqueen]

I have plenty of friends and families that would love to come watch me, but at $20-25 to get in, to see me dance my 8-15 dances, hardly makes it worth it. The price is way too high for spectators.

As for the Atlanta comp, one student from my studio flew with a teacher to compete. That's gotta be quite pricey for the student, no? Do you have a link for the results?

[pygmalion]

Which Atlanta comp?

And yes, I believe the price can be quite a bit higher if there's only one student competing. Multiple students often share the cost of the teacher's expenses.

[Laura]

I have plenty of friends and families that would love to come watch me, but at $20-25 to get in, to see me dance my 8-15 dances, hardly makes it worth it. The price is way too high for spectators.

Yes and no. The last time I was with a group discussing this question, they brought up the point that tickets to a sporting event cost at least that much, and tickets to the ballet or opera or other dance performance cost a heck of a lot more.

However, I would hazard a guess that more people would be willing to pay $80-$125 for a ticket to a performance of an acclaimed professional ballet company than $25 to watch a bunch of syllabus-level (no offense, I'm one too) Pro/Am competitors do their thing. The truth is, I don't think that the ticket prices are set in a way to cultivate spectators at Pro/Am syllabus events. I don't even think there's actually any interest on the part of the organizers in doing so...it's not like the competitors will quit entering competitions just because their friends don't feel like spending $25 to come watch them.

[tasche]

Well I was thinking about the spectator ticket prices the other day and was thinking how reasonable they are when you think about it. The other day I dropped into watch the sunday session of a local comp and was thinking that $20 was very reasonable for a 4-5 hr session when you compare it to other popular entertainment such as a movie ($10 a pop $14 if I go to the really fancy one) and you dont end up spending on the consession stand.

Reminds me a little of when I was organizing a college fashion show and someone wanted to price tickets @ $5 bc they thought no-one would pay more to go see their kids, friends etc. We end up pricing them at $15 and end up overselling the venue ( lucky not everyone turned up ) If there nt willing tp pay a mere $20 then they dont love you :wink:

[DanceAm]

Which Atlanta comp?

And yes, I believe the price can be quite a bit higher if there's only one student competing. Multiple students often share the cost of the teacher's expenses.

Not always, sometimes they just pocket the extra money.

I have danced pro/am once with my current instructor. There is no fee to the studio so we settled on just one rate.

We agreed to 150 per day.
I would cover her expense of Lodging, meals, any comp costs for event passes, entrance fees, heat fees etc.
Basically I paid her 50 more a day then she made going to comps at her franchise studio and she got her own room. I would have provided transportation but the comp was not far away and she decided to drive herself. If we danced a lot of heats, there may have been a discussion on how much per dance, but I chose the events I wanted to compete in and just paid the organizers fees. From comparisons at another studio, it was about 2000 less than the next cheapest package locally.

She never had students like us before and if she was not getting what she felt she deserved, we would have negotiated further. If she normally taught 10 lessons a day and wanted me to make up for the that shortfall, I would have considered that fair, but I probably wouldn't have danced pro/am. The way it actually worked out, we were making all the arrangements, all she had to do was show up for the heats. What a role reversal that was.

[pygmalion]

Sounds like your pro is one of the good ones. :D

The pro I referred to earlier, who is so honest and fair, made similar arrangements. Since the comp was on a workday for him, he calculated his hourly rate for the day, then divided that among the students competing. He gave out price sheets with successively lower costs as more students competed. He also picked local and shorter duration comps to promote, and explained the process every step of the way.

There definitely are good, fair pros out there. It's a shame not everyone operates that way. *shrug* That's what I like about DF. People get to ask questions and compare notes in a relatively non-threatening environment. Now, I bet a bunch of pro-am dancers are going to go back to their studios and start asking their pros probing questions. LOL! My job is done. :wink: :lol:

[mamboqueen]

I don't think you can compare syllabus-level pro-am comps with say, a Yankees vs. Red Sox game (which I would pay a tremendous amount to see, as long as I wasn't in the bleachers at Fenway!). For me to perform 10 dances at 1.5 minutes a piece doesn't come close to being worth that price. I can see it for the higher-level dancers, but if the organizers would really like to see dancesport catch on, they should make it more affordable for spectators.


Oh, and I should mention, my family is pretty cheap. They can squeeze $10 out over the course of five or six yard sales!

:wink:

[pygmalion]

Personally, I think the comp organizers should make the tickets cheap or free, after the competitors' seats have been filled. A full ballroom makes better morale for everyone. And there've been empty seats at every comp I've ever attended. Just sell the empty seats for cheap. That could be a win-win. 8)

[pygmalion]

We agreed to 150 per day.
I would cover her expense of Lodging, meals, any comp costs for event passes, entrance fees, heat fees etc.
Basically I paid her 50 more a day then she made going to comps at her franchise studio and she got her own room. I would have provided transportation but the comp was not far away and she decided to drive herself. If we danced a lot of heats, there may have been a discussion on how much per dance, but I chose the events I wanted to compete in and just paid the organizers fees. From comparisons at another studio, it was about 2000 less than the next cheapest package locally.
.

You know, DanceAm, I don't want people to read this thread and walk away thinking they can do pro-am for free. It sounds to me like your pro was pricing herself out of business, if she was running her own studio. If she was doing some pro-am on the side for extra cash, that's one thing. But if she was trying to run a business and pay for everything from electricity to dance floor rent and business insurance, I don't see how she managed to price your comp so low. There are standard formulae for pricing in a service business, and it doesn't sound like she used them. (Maybe she was using a penetration pricing strategy -- pricing your comp low, while planning to raise the price of subsequent comps. That's a pretty standard approach to pricing. *shrug* Who knows?)

Also, about the cost of heats. I suspect that the cost varies quite a bit, with the smaller comps being least expensive and the big comps costing the most per heat. So, even if you assume a uniform markup percentage (back to those pricing formulae I hated so much in managerial accounting class LOL,) the price of heats could vary quite a bit. (Why do the big comps cost more? I don't know, although I suspect the higher costs of promotion and advertising, the bigger purses, the pro shows, etc. figure into it.) (Edit: Cost = what the organizer charges per heat. Price=What the teacher/studio charges per heat, after their markup is added)


I don't want people to get the impression that they can go back to their pros and get a cheapie pro/am package. I think you were lucky to negotiate a price so low. It can't hurt for people to ask questions, but they also need to be realistic about the fact that teaching dance is a business that has to stay afloat.

[DanceAm]

I see your point. Studio costs for her are non-existant, she is an independant. The point I was actually trying to make is that she was paid more, provided better lodging then when she worked for a studio. The studio we belong to has no authority to determine her pricing, they just charge her a floor fee when she uses the floor. The studio has no employees, they are more of a landlord and the floor fee is rent.

This type of studio also has less of a team environment. The studio doesn't close down so that everyone goes to compete. In fact, only two teachers went to Heritage, all the others taught their normal lessons. The studio was still open for business and lessons were being taught.

[virginiadancegirl]

Heritage....?
Where are you? I was at Heritage (as an observer only) but will hopefully be competing there next year.....

[CC]

:kitty:

OK - I want to join a studio like DanceAm. It sounds like it was a win-win for both. I have also heard of independent teachers that basically don't charge anything above their expenses but they keep whatever scholarship $$ you may win. I think this is very rare, however. So in summary, from my experience, Franchise studios are the most expensive and the least likely to negotiate. Independent studios are less (my experience has been about 1/3-1/2 the cost) and independent teachers that rent floor space are the least expensive. No doubt there are exceptions.

[Genesius Redux]

Hi, CC, and welcome to df. 8)

You'll actually find quite a few threads on independent vs. franchise-owned studios. The topic gets some people a little passionate! :lol:

I'm at an indie studio like the one DanceAm describes--in fact, that's the same studio where Ben and Shalene, whom he mentions, teach. And yes the lessons tend to be cheaper than they are at franchise studios--and more is going directly to your teacher, so you feel better about it.

The whole top teacher/top student thing has always seemed a little silly to me. I've seen students seriously irate because they had entered so many heats hoping to get top student--and then they didn't. For me, it's all about dancing! :lol:

[CC]

Hi Genesius and thank-you for the welcome.

I agree about the top student/top teacher thing as well - at least I don't need to know which teacher got a big fat check (not that they don't deserve it - I think they do - maybe they should give that out at the pro party they usually have) - the top student award is good in theory - but by sheer number of entries seems silly. I like the idea of top student based on a required number of entries and the best average score being the basis for the award. Then again, if they did away with it all together it wouldn't bother me one bit - in fact, I never think about it until they call the awards out and then only if I'm paying attention - many times at that point, I'm a little burnt out - comps tend to run late and after being in the ballroom all day, I zone out a bit by the end. :kitty:

[tasche]

But how exactly in theory would an average "top student" work. What if you ahd say 3 students that won all their heats? How would that work?

[mamboqueen]

the one with the best dress, of course!

[Purr]

That works for me. 8)

[CC]

But how exactly in theory would an average "top student" work. What if you ahd say 3 students that won all their heats? How would that work?

Best dress works for me! Seriously tho, I believe some comps give out top Bronze, silver (not sure about gold) which would reduce the chances of a tie(s) but not eliminate them. In theory, the point system/number of entries could have ties as well. :P

[pygmalion]

Eh. If an occasional tie happens, that's okay by me. It would just be nice and *******ing to see students receive awards for technical merit, not just dollars spent on multitudes of heats.

[Larinda McRaven]

It would just be nice and *******ing to see students receive awards for technical merit, not just dollars spent on multitudes of heats.

they do, it is called 1st place, 2nd place, 3rd place.... :D :wink:

[pygmalion]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Purr]

:lol:

[tasche]

Though if based on technical merit wouldn't that encourage sandbaggers?

[DanceAm]

It would just be nice and *******ing to see students receive awards for technical merit, not just dollars spent on multitudes of heats.

they do, it is called 1st place, 2nd place, 3rd place.... :D :wink:

Duh...

I was actually losing site of that until you mentioned it.

But I think for that reason, after 100 heats, does it really feel like you won anything? You either get a whole handfull of stickers or a stack of ribbons. A hundred or more of those and it is like those black and orange wrapped peanut butter candies at holloween. You know, the ones you just throw away. With a bag full of that, the big award is like getting a supersized candy bar.

To be honest, competing USABDA, the awards are usually very small but have a lot of meaning for us. We have never won a level the first time we competed in it. Many times, we don't even make the final the first time. But over time, moving up in a level, getting recalled, then getting in the top 3, all are great feelings. It is more like those black and orange wrapped candies are in short supply and most don't even get that. So if we go home with couple of them, we are happy. NDCA just doesn't seem to have the participation in Amateur American Smooth and Rhythm, exept at the bigger comps. Hopefully that will change.

[Laura]

Though if based on technical merit wouldn't that encourage sandbaggers?

That's where an organization-wide database tracking proficiency points would come in handy. Of course, we can't even get that now....

[pygmalion]

The emphasis on technical merit or monetary expenditure/number of heats varies a lot depending on how the comp is structured, I think. Just a thought.

[tasche]

Though if based on technical merit wouldn't that encourage sandbaggers?

That's where an organization-wide database tracking proficiency points would come in handy. Of course, we can't even get that now....

Yes but that would mean the people who play fair would prosper and we can't ahve that now can we? :shock:

[Laura]

Of course not Tasche! This is America damn it! Every person for themself! Let's roll!

[Porfirio Landeros]

Though if based on technical merit wouldn't that encourage sandbaggers?

That's where an organization-wide database tracking proficiency points would come in handy. Of course, we can't even get that now....

Forgive me for throwing out all of my computer sense, but I think we may need to pitch a solution for the sandbagging system, which can be managed at any level, with no excuses (i.e. insufficient hardware, no IT staff, not enough money, too many competitions, etc.).

Why don't they just turn our USABDA cards into bus passes, and every time you point-out of an event you get a hole punch :) ? If you lose your card, that's an automatic 3 punches/points!

I think even USABDA central can understand this concept... it's a client-side data tracking system that fits in your pocket!!!!!

[Laura]

The great thing about your idea is that it's been used in Europe for a while.

[tasche]

Unfortunately os NDCA side is not so much as a matter of whether it could be but whether it WOULD be done. There was a thread on that other bb about sandbagging at the pro-am level and I see it becoming worse with all the new national titles and then the pro-am worlds they'll be holding in Jan. The tempation is too great and the restraints too little.

That being said now where did put my tire iron? :twisted:

[Porfirio Landeros]

The great thing about your idea is that it's been used in Europe for a while.

Are you saying we should finally make that smart chip in the Amex Blue card useful for something... that's where we can store our proficiency points!!!!

[tasche]

You mean the chip actually meant for something useful I though it was just to keep the checkout chicks amused

[mamboqueen]

what is sandbagging??? :oops:

[SDsalsaguy]

what is sandbagging??? :oops:
Deliberately entering a level lower than your abilities in order to "win."

[Purr]

How common a problem do you think that is at competitions? :?

[DanceAm]

It can actually be reletive, but I think you should compete at the level of instruction you are receiving. If you only dance Bronze at comps but take lessons and social dance at Silver, I think you should compete silver. But that is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

For Amateurs at USABDA comps, you only have to move up when you get 3 proficiency points in that level. Although there are a few ways to earn points, it is usually winning First in a heat that had at least a semi-final danced. So if I danced Bronze Smooth and it had a semi-final and I took first, I get one point. Unless it is Nationals, then that is an automatic point out for that level.

But I rarely wait to get all my points before moving up. I actually pointed out of Bronze Smooth because I won Silver. With two official Bronze points I could still dance Bronze, until I got a point in Silver, because points at a higher level count at the lower levels. That Silver point actually meant I had 3 Bronze points and could no longer dance Bronze.

But on the other hand, I dance Amateur (Couple) Championship Rhythm Level at NDCA comps and even win, but I don't dance Championship at USABDA comps yet because I am just not at that level yet. The competion for Amateur couples is much more fierce at USABDA comps. Now if I dance NDCA Championship level and there is a semi final and I win, according the USABDA Rulebook, I still get a point for Championship level, and that point moves down to Pre-champ as well. I could concievably point out of PreChamp by winning Championships at NDCA comps. But that has not happened yet because I have yet to dance a semi-final heat at an NDCA comp. The heat must have a semi-final for points to be awarded.

It is even more complicated than that, but Darry Martin is the proficiency point expert for USABDA and I see him at many comps. If you go to the USABDA Website and request info on proficiency points, you will get a chart composed by Darry to assist you in counting points.

[mamboqueen]

Interesting, Dance Am. Thanks for the info.

I am dancing bronze this weekend (smooth & rythym) and am starting to take my lessons in silver. I just want to see how I do in bronze sinze I've only competed one other time. And, at that time, 2-1/2 years ago, I was a fairly new dancer (expecting to be in newcomer, in fact); my teacher put me in bronze and I was up against women who danced bronze in competition for 3-5 years. It was pretty intimidating. I didn't really come away feeling very good even though I got first place in two dances.

I feel that I need to boost my confidence a bit before I compete at silver level. Although having said that, I'm finding the bronze syllabus to be completely boring and am looking forward to adding a little more challenge into the dance!

[tasche]

Interesting, Dance Am. Thanks for the info.

I am dancing bronze this weekend (smooth & rythym) and am starting to take my lessons in silver. I just want to see how I do in bronze sinze I've only competed one other time. And, at that time, 2-1/2 years ago, I was a fairly new dancer (expecting to be in newcomer, in fact); my teacher put me in bronze and I was up against women who danced bronze in competition for 3-5 years. It was pretty intimidating. I didn't really come away feeling very good even though I got first place in two dances.

I feel that I need to boost my confidence a bit before I compete at silver level. Although having said that, I'm finding the bronze syllabus to be completely boring and am looking forward to adding a little more challenge into the dance!

You didn't come away feeling good bc you weren't competiting with other chicks at your level. Unfortunately I see how the cycle works. Someone stays in a level so long and then they get "slaughtered" so they end up doing the same things and the level becomes perversely into something its not. BTW for those out there not familar with proficiency points Pro-ams dont get any hence forth you'll see sandbagging more often as "techinically" its legal expect for a few instances its not

[mamboqueen]

Well, it can't really good for the sport if people who are capable of gold, or even good silver, to be dancing in bronze. It's not very encouraging for us newbies, and if I kept facing this, at some point I'd come to the realization that my money might be better spent elsewhere.

But, I can only go out and do my best and not worry about anyone else, right?

I am considering buying the tape of my comp. I assume it will be helpful after I get over the initial shock. Eeek! Kind of scary to think about!

[Purr]

I'd recommend buying a tape at your competition, as they are a useful learning tool. And then as time passes, you can look back and see how much you've improved. :D

The tapes can be quite expensive, but you might be able to save a little money by bringing your own blank tape.

And don't forget to get pictures!!! 8)

[KevinL]

I am considering buying the tape of my comp. I assume it will be helpful after I get over the initial shock. Eeek! Kind of scary to think about!

You should definitely buy the tape of your comp. You may want it in a few years so that you can look back and say, "Wow, I've come a long way!"

A piece of advice, though. The first time you watch the tape make sure to force yourself not to "notice" anything negative until you have noticed and made note of at least 3 things that you like about your performance. That will put the whole experience in a positive light, even if you later see 413 things that you did wrong, or know that you could have done better.

Kevin

[SDsalsaguy]

Yup, a tape is a great investment. Also, with pictures, get one of something you really don't like and put it up on your fridge... Ibelieve me, you won;t do that same thing again! :wink:

[mamboqueen]

Thanks! Every bit of advice truly helps!

[DanceAm]

This got me thinking, and I need to go back and check on this. But I am beginning to think that if we do well at a comp, my wife spends less at the vendors. If we don't do as well as we hoped, she spends more.

Or maybe, she doesn't care how we do, she just wants to shop.

Hmmm?

[virginiadancegirl]

This got me thinking, and I need to go back and check on this. But I am beginning to think that if we do well at a comp, my wife spends less at the vendors. If we don't do as well as we hoped, she spends more.

Or maybe, she doesn't care how we do, she just wants to shop.

Hmmm?


If she's like me...shopping can celebrate success...and help ease the pain of failure...

Especially with your wallet in hand!! :D

[pygmalion]

Hmm. There's a thread about that somewhere. Dealing with loss. I'll have to resurrect that one, now that we have so many new DF members that compete regularly. It'll be interesting to see what everyone has to say. 8)