DWTS Week 4

[RickRS]

Starting this early: Ty mentioned on his blog that they drew the Lindy Hop. Chelsie has never danced this, so they've watched some YouTube videos to pick up the dance.

Looks like both AT and Lindy Hop purists will be appalled with Monday night's show.

[Angel HI]

Have been shuttering w/ uncontrollable fright ever since the announcement. http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/scared/scared0011.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/freesmiley.php?smiley=scared/scared0011.gif)

[suburbaknght]

Face -> Palm.

Every season I watch for two or three episodes and every season I remembre why I stopped watching last season. At least this time around I get new excuses.

[LucyDiamond]

I'm looking forward to the Lindy Hop and Argentine Tango this week. But, I'm not a purist... :wink:

[Wolfgang]

I'm not a purist, either , and all dances regularly get butchered on DwtS anyway, so what the hey.....
Instead of YouTube, they should be going to local clubs or other venues where Lindy (or Tango) are actually being danced..

[LucyDiamond]

I don't really think there's that much butchering on DWTS. I figure even the worse dancers are doing their best. I view them as beginner dancers doing showcases and try to give them the benefit of the doubt. If they are having fun and trying their best, I don't look at technique that much.

[NonieS]

I think what Wolfgang means is that the routines are not really proper latin/ballroom routines... more like a series of poses with some dance steps (some actual ballroom, some not) thrown in.... either way, it's meant to be entertaining and the vast majority of the people watching DWTS are not dancesport dancers so wouldn't know the difference and are entertained anyways..

[latingal]

Not looking forward to this....

[Beto]

Not looking forward to this....
It's the train wreck/car accident effect. You know you should just keep going and not look but you feel compelled to look anyway.

[Wolfgang]

I think what Wolfgang means is that the routines are not really proper latin/ballroom routines... more like a series of poses with some dance steps (some actual ballroom, some not) thrown in.... either way, it's meant to be entertaining and the vast majority of the people watching DWTS are not dancesport dancers so wouldn't know the difference and are entertained anyways..

That is indeed what I meant.:D
It will be interesting, I go Swing/Lindy dancing on average about once a week and sometimes drop into a studio where they do Argentine to mostly 'alternative' music, so perhaps I'll actually learn something.
Even if it's what not to do......;)

[Me]

I apologize if this sounds elitist, but this makes me sick. I am seriously contemplating just not watching the show. For me, this show has taken a completely different path from the original concept - "Stars" learning and growing into competent dancers. Now it is mostly flash and trash reality TV garbage. It makes me sick to see AT thrown in with the rest of it.

[danceronice]

They've been doing AT on "Strictly Come Dancing" for years.

[Me]

They've been doing AT on "Strictly Come Dancing" for years.


Yes, and for the most part, it has been hideous.

[GJB]

Me, I like your new avatar !

[wooh]

I apologize if this sounds elitist, but this makes me sick. I am seriously contemplating just not watching the show. For me, this show has taken a completely different path from the original concept - "Stars" learning and growing into competent dancers. Now it is mostly flash and trash reality TV garbage. It makes me sick to see AT thrown in with the rest of it.

Why not take AT down with all the other dancing on the show?:p

[ChaChaMama]

I do not care all that much whether the routines are "proper" ballroom/latin/Argentine/Lindy etc, and I think DWTS has been great for the dance community.

That said, if they are looking at ways to change up the formula or spice up the show, this isn't the way I would go about it. Why add more dances, particularly ones that are NOT within the traditional teaching canon of the pros? We have a bunch of latin/ballroom specialists. Why not play to their strengths? Forcing pros to scramble to learn dances so they can teach them strikes me as about as sensible as hiring someone who has one semester of a foreign language to teach that language.

If the show wants to "mix things up," here are some ideas that I like better:
IDEA #1--Have a partner swap week, where each star gets a different pro.

IDEA #2--Have a partner swap week where stars have to dance together, and two pros choreograph them. Both stars either stay or are eliminated. The extra time freed up by this move (since there will only be half as many competitive routines) could be filled by pro routines.

IDEA #3--Have a week where the stars have to bring in someone from their own lives to dance with, and pro choreographs both of them. It could be a spouse, a child, a co-star, a stranger seeking 15 minutes of fame...whatever.

IDEA #4--Have a week where pairs of couples have to dance the exact same dance and compete head to head. The weaker of the two is automatically in the dance off.

[Angel HI]

Firstly, let me set some things straight. I am not against Stars having AT on. The UK version has been a fan of AT for a while. It started out as a complete farce, but has become better from sheer persistence. I am not such an elitist that I believe that AT should be exempt from the botchery subjected upon the other dances. After all, it is television...not a pro comp. My frustration is that they are not even attempting to do it right.

We have a bunch of latin/ballroom specialists. Why not play to their strengths? Forcing pros to scramble to learn dances so they can teach them strikes me as about as sensible as hiring someone who has one semester of a foreign language to teach that language.
Agreed. This is the point above. Not only for AT, but for all of the dnces that the pros are unfamiliar with, what would be the problem with bringing in a pro in the dance of question to work with the show pro as well as the celeb? .....an attempt to do it well.
IDEA #3--Have a week where the stars have to bring in someone from their own lives to dance with, and pro choreographs both of them. It could be a spouse, a child, a co-star, a stranger seeking 15 minutes of fame...whatever.

IDEA #4--Have a week where pairs of couples have to dance the exact same dance and compete head to head. The weaker of the two is automatically in the dance off.Liked #s 1 and 2; do not like #3; and, really like #4.

[Angel HI]

Me, I like your new avatar !:rocker: I too!

[Wolfgang]

I like Cha Cha Mama's ideas!:applause:

I'd also like to see the UK version of this or a similar show, even if I don't know any of the 'stars' - I don't know about half of 'our' stars, either.....not being a reality TV/movie/celebrity junkie.

How about 'open slots' where a pro grabs an audience member and starts dancing?
Yes, I know, much easier for the male pros and chances of something like that not being scripted & staged are basically nil.
Just a thought.......

[Steve Pastor]

"Lindy Hop" has been around since the late 20s/early 30s. The early dancers had very individual styles according to most accounts. Even the paid performers there weren't a chorus line all doing the same thing exactly the same.
Argentine Tango has been around decades longer.

So, for these two dances in particular, it's kind of hard for me to think in "purist" terms. I've come to think opinion as I've read more and more about the early days of each of the dances.
No doubt I'll be shaking my head along with a bunch of other folks.

Why to they include "non ballroom" dances? Maybe because seeing people do the same dances over and over and over is... a bit unexciting?

I've been asking myself the question, too, "what does it say about the show that two of their "pros" are alumni of "So You Think You Can Dance"?

Wonder if they'll drag Alex DiSilva back for the AT?

[Bella]

Get ideas CCM! I'd email that over to ABC! (I'm serious) :)

[Beto]

Nice interview with Ty and Chelsie about tonight's dance and other behind the scenes stuff:

http://www.tvguide.com/Dancing-Stars/Ty-Murray-Chelsie-1004488.aspx?rss=breakingnews

[Another Elizabeth]

I've been asking myself the question, too, "what does it say about the show that two of their "pros" are alumni of "So You Think You Can Dance"?
I've thought about this, and I think that the reason for using SYTYCD alums is to make it a little more fair to the partners of those dancers. As the show has gone on, the pros have developed followings of their own which gain them votes. At this point, when a complete unknown is introduced as a new dancer, he has a big uphill battle to compete with the "regulars" for attention from the viewers. So where are they going to find ballroom dancers who are already nationally known/recognizable? I think SYTYCD is really the only source.

[Me]

Nice interview with Ty and Chelsie about tonight's dance and other behind the scenes stuff:

http://www.tvguide.com/Dancing-Stars/Ty-Murray-Chelsie-1004488.aspx?rss=breakingnews


Very interesting article. I could not help but notice these quotes RE: the Lindy:


TVGuide.com: Are you more worried because it's a new dance for the pros?

Chelsie Hightower: I'm not worried. I've just been learning from the Internet. It's been an interesting start, so if it comes out a success, I will be super-proud of myself!


TVGuide.com: How's the Lindy Hop going?

Chelsie Hightower: I had a ton of hair pulled out! I was also dropped on my head twice. I fell on my back twice, once with my mic pack on, Steve-O-style. I grew up with five brothers, so I was constantly thrown around and beat up a lot, so this is OK. But Ty hurt his shoulder a little bit, so that's payback.


Maybe if the pros knew the dances... or maybe if they brought in specialty coaches for these dances ... these accidents would not happen!

[Me]

I'm glad you guys like my avatar. :D

So many people are talking about the AT feature on DWTS that I'm afraid I will have to watch it, to be "in the know."

I will try to play nice, but I will be honest.

[chachachacat]

Good point AnEliz!

Also SYTYCD has excellent dancers and choreographers. You (Steve)may have no idea how hard it is to dance all those different types of dance. These kids are serious dancers!
And we as the ballroom community are lucky to have two currently popular dance shows featuring ballroom! This is not something to take for granted.

[gracie]

This a bit off subject but humerous I think. When people find out you are a dancer, do they ask you when you are going to be on DWTS? This has happened to me numerous times. It seems that they have missed the entire concept of the show as I am neither Pro dancer nor celebrity!

[latingal]

This a bit off subject but humerous I think. When people find out you are a dancer, do they ask you when you are going to be on DWTS? This has happened to me numerous times.

I get this all the time too.

[Merrylegs]

I get this all the time too.

Yeah, me too. When you tell them that you are neither the Pro nor the Star they start to get a glazed look in their eyes....

[Bella]

Bella's thoughts:

-Ou la la French men are sexy, we? ;)
-Melissa was as cute as ever! :)
-Julianne and Chuck; Mark and Shawn deserved a better score.
-Computer guy and Holly are going home.

*GO MELISSA!* :) :)

[GJB]

*GO MELISSA!* :) :)

Yeah, Go Melissa !

Karina, the camera is still on you - stop making those faces and rolling your eyeballs !

[wooh]

To start with, I don't particularly like any form of swing and not fond of tango-ish music which makes me dislike any kind of tango. So I'm totally uninformed.

David- cute. But looked more like ECS than lindy (In my uninformed opinion.)
Lil Kim- If you swing bent legs around in the middle of a standard tango, it's automatically AT right?

Chuck- The practice footage is so "Oh look how in wuuuuuv we are!" Very annoying. The routine, once again looks a lot more ECS than lindy.

Lawrence- Looked more AT than Lil Kim's, but still bleh.

[Bella]

Chuck- The practice footage is so "Oh look how in wuuuuuv we are!" Very annoying. The routine, once again looks a lot more ECS than lindy.



Oh, stop that. ;) Some people love the "Oh look how in wuuuuvvv we are!" - it's cute. :)

[wooh]

Ty- He's so stinking cute. Routine was quite cute. Not very lindy looking to me, but cute. Considering I already adore her, and now adore him (even if I'm really unfond of his line of work), I officially adore them. Cute outfits too. The band butchering the music tonight though, especially this song, not adoring that!

[wooh]

Woz- My fave part was being really impressed by the choreography of the big lift at the beginning, and how Karina cut out the actual "lifting" so all he had to do was spin around with her holding herself up on his shoulder. Was it absolutely fabulous? No. Were the judges unfairly harsh? Yes.

Melissa- Watching them I realized what's making it looks so un-lindy. It lacks the relaxed feel that even the fastest lindy has. This one almost looked jive-ish.

[wooh]

Holly- I kind of like her. I'm pulling for her. To me, she's more of an underdog than Woz, because it's easier to see him as an underdog giving him a strange advantage. I enjoy watching Holly and Woz, because they're having to work to just be able to sort of dance. I loved the choreography, would love to see Dmitry dance it with Edyta.:)

[wooh]

Steve-o- Odd, but at least the most lindy of all the lindy. (Not surprising considering Lacey grew up in the swing world.)

[wooh]

Gilles- It was good, but it was kind of boring. Which probably means it was great, because I always tend to find real AT performances kind of boring. (Please don't hate me for it AT people!)

Shawn- She's of course adorable. But I beg the producers: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop letting Mark having any say in his costuming. It was hard to watch the dancing being so afraid that Little Mark was going to fall out of those shorts.

[Ampster]

Gilles- It was good, but it was kind of boring. Which probably means it was great, because I always tend to find real AT performances kind of boring. (Please don't hate me for it AT people!)


What did you just say?... :evil:

... Just kidding:banana::rocker:

[Merrylegs]

Shawn- She's of course adorable. But I beg the producers: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop letting Mark having any say in his costuming. It was hard to watch the dancing being so afraid that Little Mark was going to fall out of those shorts.

OMG, I just burst out laughing here at the office. Thanks for the giggles (but not the visual!) :D

[Wolfgang]

Have so far been able to watch the first two, and I was actually pleasantly surprised.
David's Lindy was pretty respectable for a non-teenager and non-dancer, and while Li'l Kim's Argentine Tango owed a pretty huge debt of gratitude to the so-called 'International' or Ballroom Tango, Derek's choreography was , as usual, excellent!
And, will wonders never cease, they actually got to dance it to real tango music - as opposed to the theme from ER or Zippedee-doodah by Walt Disney, Inc. Corp. Worldwide dot com as is normal on the show......

[salsera_alemana]

I can't wait to read the AT dancers' comments here. So far there has been no uproar... (wondering). I am not an AT dancer but love the dance, took a beginner's class and have watched a lot of AT video clips. This is to say that I am not in the position or able to judge AT but had a little taste of it. That said, the AT routines on the show were torture to my eyes, except Gille's. Not that I thought it was real AT but at least they had some kind of connection and he looked hot! I also liked Cheryl's dress and thought she did a better job with the dance as the other pros. I was really very disappointed with the other pros' AT and thought that Edyta and Karina looked more like "the blind leading the blind", not AT-ish or hot at all.

And then I felt that the judges, maybe except for Len, were totally incapable of judging AT. How could they praise Lil Kim's AT as super hot and all? Wasn't that a disconnected set of poses without any connection, steps or AT dancing?

It worked better with the Lindy, I thought. At least the routines were not as painful to watch as the AT routines. I liked Ty and Chelsea and I am glad he is getting better so she can stay in the competition for a while. I like her a lot! And I find him cute! I thought Melissa did great doing so many scary lifts.

I felt sorry for Steve and feel that the judges are way too harsh on him. He has such a likeable personality and he is trying very hard. It might look awkward but is his dancing really as bad as they say, what is you ballroom experts' opinion on that? I thought we had worse contestants on previous seasons who got highter scores.

[anp73ga31]

Poor Steve-o! I think that if he had not hurt his back, things would have been different. I think Lacey held back because of the back and thus it appeared slow and boring. I did not like their dance at all.

Chuck is such a wus! That move he was so afraid of is so easy! We did it in high school dancerettes....you get help all the way over all you have to do is put your feet over. And Julianne....since when do you cut a move out when someone is scared of it? You work thru the scared so they aren't scared any more. Quit babying him! I did not like their routine..too cheesy and his wimpy little solo jump towards the end was dumb. They bug me (and normally I love Julianne).

Woz....I love that he loves what he is doing and has fun, but I just hate that people keep voting him thru when all he does is walk! He walks around the floor, the judges are uber mean to him and ppl feel sorry for him and vote. So he'll be around for a while.

Poor Holly....I love that she loves the show and is excited about the costumes and such. Unfortunately its quite obvious that she is NOT a dancer. And what was Dmitry thinking with the barstool! Chairs never work on DWTS much less spinning barstools. Ugh. Loved her show, Girls Next Door, but I'm beginning to wish it was Bridget up there instead of her. At least Bridget doesnt have a nervous laugh and doesnt come across as an empty albeit beautiful shell. Sigh....

Gilles was great! I would not say that I had a problem telling who was the pro and who was the star (hate when the judges say that! would like to show them Alec dancing that with Cheryl and let them see the difference!) he was great, and as close to a pro guy as you could find, but um yeah, I could tell the difference. He was no Riccardo (or that fantastic guy who went thru the legs of another couple once when he got separated from his partner. love him! Franco? Why does formica like in countertop come to mind when I try to think of his last name. Am I even close?!).

Shawn, bless her heart. I could not get past Mark channelling Corky in his horrific shorts and nerd glasses. Good lord, but that was distracting in a not good way! She did good but just didnt feel lindy enough or fast enough for me. Love her, just not the dance.

Melissa did great but again, just didnt feel lindy enough. Was fun to watch the tricks, though.

Love Ty. He is so genuine and came in with no idea what he was doing but always putting forth 150%. Chelsie is obviously a fantastic teacher and he is a dedicated student. Love to see a non-dancer improve so much and put so much into it without whining and complaining.

Lil Kim did good. This time she did look like a black barbie doll (which is what she always says she wants to be) because she was stiff and expressionless alot of the time, but I did like Derek's choreography and she DID look alot taller the way she was holding herself.

Lawrence...just cant get into him. Am in agreement with whomever posted that even Edyta did not look hot last night. He totally killed it for me. Didnt like it at all. He is no Emmitt....well he's a smidge of Emmitt with alot more whine and frustration and less grinning adorableness.

Dag....I want to like him, I really do! He tries so hard and does really good but I just dont connect with him. There's just something not there and I dont know what it is. bummer...

Anyway, yay tonight! The pros will perform! Always my fav thing to watch!

[BallandChange]

I am sorry, but I wish they didn't do Lindy Hop. It is too much waiving legs and arms with lifts. It is difficult to see any technique at all, although I admit it could be fun to watch. If they were to continue with Lindy Hop, it would be interesting to see a more bluesy smooth type of Lindy Hop where it is a lot more slinky and sultry rather than all these legs and arms flying in the air. I think smooth style is called the Hollywood style, and I also believe even the Savoy Style is a little bit more grounded that what we are seeing. Lindy Hop is really cool when danced a little buit more grounded.

[RickRS]

While Steve Woz has his fans (even here at DF), please dear Lord, send that guy home tonight!

Lindy Hop - I'm no hopper, but it seem like nobody nailed that one. Worst, seem like the dancers were taking major risk with the aerial performances to cover up the fact that none of them understood the dance. I think wooh noticed it best:

...Melissa- Watching them I realized what's making it looks so un-lindy. It lacks the relaxed feel that even the fastest lindy has.

AT - Gilles, hands down. Don't know if it was "right", but it was the best performance of the night.

Hoping for some comments from Me and the other AT dancers. I get quite a education and better understanding of the different dance styles when DWTS gets picked apart.

[mamboqueen]

Woz....I love that he loves what he is doing and has fun, but I just hate that people keep voting him thru when all he does is walk! He walks around the floor, the judges are uber mean to him and ppl feel sorry for him and vote. So he'll be around for a while.

Yeah, I think it's time for a double-Steve departure.


Poor Holly....I love that she loves the show and is excited about the costumes and such. Unfortunately its quite obvious that she is NOT a dancer. And what was Dmitry thinking with the barstool! Chairs never work on DWTS much less spinning barstools. Ugh. Loved her show, Girls Next Door, but I'm beginning to wish it was Bridget up there instead of her. At least Bridget doesnt have a nervous laugh and doesnt come across as an empty albeit beautiful shell. Sigh....

I'd prefer Kendra. But having said that, they're all a bit on the daffy side. I think Holly is cute in her own way. I am glad they picked a costume that covered her chest. I actually thought she looked very well put together last night.



Love Ty. He is so genuine and came in with no idea what he was doing but always putting forth 150%. Chelsie is obviously a fantastic teacher and he is a dedicated student. Love to see a non-dancer improve so much and put so much into it without whining and complaining.


Also has a very endearing quality to him. You really can't help but like the guy. I thought he was very light on his feet and I just smile when I watch him dance. And I agree with Len, he's a far cry from that very first cha cha he did. Good job by Chelsie...I wasn't really sure what to expect from her.



Lawrence...just cant get into him. Am in agreement with whomever posted that even Edyta did not look hot last night. He totally killed it for me. Didnt like it at all. He is no Emmitt....well he's a smidge of Emmitt with alot more whine and frustration and less grinning adorableness.


They didn't do anything for me either. I agree with whichever judge said there was no chemistry. I do like LT, though....met him in person about, oh 20 years ago, and he's a nice guy. I thought it was funny when he said "am I still going to be married when this is over?"




My prediction for going home: Woz and Holly.

[RickRS]

... And what was Dmitry thinking with the barstool! Chairs never work on DWTS much less spinning barstools. Ugh.

On this show, chairs just seem to be a way to run down the clock on the dance while having the star avoid any movement. Dmitry get points for creative thinking: trying to hide the fact his star isn't moving by putting her on a stool that moves for her. Of course, he loses those points and then some, because we can all see thru this feeble attempt to hide behind a prop. :rolleyes:

[Zhena]

My prediction for going home: Woz and Holly.

Yesterday's San Jose Mercury News had Woz on the front page. IIRC, the article was about how he has a heck of a lot of locals (and others) pulling for him. When questioned about the possibility of a "fix", the show's producers said they have systems in place to prevent it ... but in a contest between DWTS producers and the population of Silicon Valley, I'd bet on the geeks. He's not unaware of this, given his comments last night ...


Personally, I'm divided. I think he's cute and I love his enthusiasm and energy. Last night I alternated between cringing at his dancing and smiling at the cute spots.

But I don't vote ....

[Steve Pastor]

First, a comment on "Lindy Hop".
Until the mid/late 30s there were no "air steps" in the dance.

In 1935 a Cab Calloway song "“Call of the Jitter Bug (Jitterbug)" and the film “Cab Calloway's Jitterbug Party” came out, and the term "jitterbug" began to be applied to "Lindy Hop".

Jitterbug became the most widely used term for swing dancing just about the same time that lifts, aerials, etc, became popular.

Lindbergh began publically expressing his opinion regarding Nazi Germany as the 30s ended, and ran afoul of public opinion as WWII heated up.
Anyone else notice that most of the songs used were from the 50s? (and that would be the second half of the 50s at that)
Notice that Len called it "jitterbug", since he hadn't gotten the word that the producers were using the "sexier" term "Lindy Hop"?
By then popular dance teachers such as Arthur Murray were using the term "swing" for this kind of dance.
Then we had the Lindy Revival...

So, "Lindy Hop" it wasn't, I'd say.
But I understand why the producers decided to call it that.

[dancergal]

I can believe how many injuries there are this season! I wonder how many "Stars" will be afraid to do this show in the future because of all the injuries?

[Me]

Overall, I was surprised! Many dancers this evening hit nice lines and produced a reasonable facsimile of tango. No screaming stereotypes, nothing slutty, no ridiculous props... I was a bit dismayed that the dancers seemed to believe that they needed to scowl and hang their heads to produce an authentic tango look, but I strongly prefer that to saucy snarling and snapping.

Obviously, these are not trained tango dancers. I can watch the movement and tell that it is mimicked, not danced. You know how we say the dance is the movement in between steps? Well, so is the tango. :) The dancers can hit a boleo (basically, a flick) but it will look artificial or forced if not executed properly, which was the case last night. But, this was to be expected – They are not tango dancers and do the best with what they have. I wish there had been more emphasis overall on connection (embrace). This is part of what gave Cheryl such a leg-up for her routine with Gilles.

My ranking of the AT couples might surprise a few of you here:


Cheryl & Gilles
Derek & Lil Kim
Karina & Woz
Edyta & LT
Dmitry & Holly
Woz earns a 3… as in third place, not as in score.


Derek and Lil Kim
I actually liked Derek’s routine, and his dancing wasn’t so bad, either! Major kudos to Derek for making a tango work with the wrong music. (Yes my friends, poor Derek was given a Milonga, not a Tango.) He didn’t force Lil Kim into tango tricks that could backfire or look awkward. It appeared to me that he played to her strengths, and to his. It flowed. I liked it. Lil Kim needs to work on using her feet (not her fault), but overall… I believe she out-danced Edyta and Karina.

Edyta and LT
Edyta and LT’s routine was easily the worst. Edyta did not use her feet, at all, and the black shoes only served to draw more attention to her whole-footed clomping. She stared angrily at the floor, which killed any possibility for chemistry. LT was given very little to do but walk… and walking is not a bad thing… but when you’re clomping around, it is very bad. JT has not been taught how to walk, which is the kiss of death in AT. We ended up with two minutes of clomping and stopping to give the girl a chance to wave her legs around (while staring at the floor). This was a shame, as Edyta is normally very sensual and engaging in her dancing.

Karina and Woz
I know everybody gives Woz a hard time, but his tango routine really was not that bad, and he did not deserve 4’s. The judges were sneering even before Woz took his first step, if you noticed. I think Karina did a good job, given Woz’s obvious physical limitations. My main complaint was she had his embrace a bit too closed for stage performance, and anytime Karina needed to move or make an embellishment, she would twist away from him. Like LT, Woz also needs some lessons in the walking department. (Neither the walking or the embrace is his fault.) I think Karina did spend too much time with the chair, and I despised the rose in teeth. The lift from the stairs was actually very smart of Karina. I hated the flip – This was AT, not Lindy.

Dmitry and Holly
Holly and Dmitry’s tango was strange, disjointed – A stringing together of tricks. But then again, poor Holly kept blanking on the choreography so it was difficult to tell. However, it was clear to me that Dmitry had no clue of how to help Holly with the tango; she didn’t even know to cross in a “basic eight.” It’s no wonder that once Holly lost her nerve after the chair slip she became lost in the choreography. Since the judges had already obliterated Woz on the score board, to rate Holly lower was impossible. (A note on choreography - it appeared (to me) to borrow very heavily from bits of De Silva’s choreography from past seasons of SYTYCD. The shadow position and some of the attempted planeos looked familiar, but the very distinctive pretzel lift from Danny’s SYTYCD AT routine was a glaring giveaway.)

Cheryl & Gilles
Cheryl Burke was the surprise of the evening for me. I was convinced her routine would be hard and flashy. She easily had the best choreography! They had the best music, as it was better suited to the band - El Tango Des Los Assassinos (can be found on soundtrack of Mr. and Mrs. Smith on iTunes, for the curious.) Her tango was not perfect (and it was not expected to be) but they maintained the best embrace connection of all of the couples that evening. Gilles bobbed up and down a wee bit, but this was because he did not have mastery of the (very difficult) concept of soft and straight legs for AT. IMO, Gilles out-danced Dmitry with ease.

(I think Gilles should quit the competition and study AT!)


Random disappointments of the evening:

The first piece of AT music played was a milonga. (Not Derek’ or Kim’s fault.)
Hearing Piazzolla mangled yet again (Suite Punta del Este (Theme from the Film "12 Monkeys") – and Cite Tango). Would it BREAK THE BUDGET to bring in a bandoneon for ONE SHOW? It is very unfair to expect the band to present something of quality if they do not have the tools or skills to do so. It was sad to hear band recycle the same arrangement of Cite Tango from a past season (used for Derek’s American tango). I hope people understand not all tango sounds like scary black and white circus nightmare music.
Not seeing Julianne attempt AT. With her great understanding of dance, I would love to have seen her take a crack at AT.

Random surprise of the evening... The first perfect 30 of the season was from an AT routine

[Steve Pastor]

I thought some of the AT last night was better than what I've seen on SYTYCD over the seasons. Where things frequently didn't look so good at were technique wise in things like gancho, enganches, and boleos. Lil' Kim, did pretty good, but she didn;t have the sharpness that these (ideally led) movements require.
When Derek stated that "I don't know much about this dance", I think he meant to say, I've never competed at this, and I'm not at the same level as my other dances.
In fact all of the pros looked good, so I just don't buy that this is something they aren't familiar with. (Just like I don't buy that Chelsea was learning "Lindy Hop" by watching YouTube.)
I say this because I see it in their boleos and ganchos and sentadas, etc.

Maybe I've finally accepted the fact that you aren't going to see social AT in a competition. Yes, it would be boring because it's about how it feels, not how it looks. So, yeah, it was largley "stage tango". But most of what we see in "stage tango" has been around for a long time and is part of AT vocabulary whether we want it to be or not.
Oh, and as on SYTYCD, the judges had little or nothing to say about specific techinque, because they aren't really knowledgable about the dance.

Me, you must have taken notes!

[Ampster]

As an AT dancer, here's what I think. It's just my opinion.

There are several different styles of Argentine Tango. What they were doing is called "Fantasia," a.k.a. "Show Tango." This is the AT you do for show and/or exhibitions. It is something you would never do on a social dance floor.

That being said I would say Guilles, was OK, Li'l Kim was tolerable. The rest were just bad.

The good...
The choregraphy was decent.
The music were actual tango music. Derek was given amilongo. It was NOT a tango. I just wish they chose some music that was less challenging. With better arrangements. It would have allowed them to dance better and un-rushed

The not so good...
Choreography: The hallmark of all AT (show or otherwise), is that it has to have the look and feel of it being strictly lead and follow. Throughout the whole evening, you had the men and the women doing these kicks that were supposed to be sacadas (leg displacements), and (boleos, whipping leg wraps, for lack of a better term) were very obviously meorized, and did not have a "led" look to them, which made an otherwise beatiful move, quite ugly.

Cheryl's end pose was copied from Miriam Larici here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EgmIpO_slM) Lil's kim's end pose was copied from Miriam Larici here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwdMfZQBhkI).

Fake poses: When one dances AT, even for show, nobody else matters. Not the audience, not the cameras, no-one. You dance for you and your partner. When AT dancers dance, they are IN a relationship. They feel it, they dance it. The people in DWTS kept talking about roles. It's not about acting and looking serious. AT dancers really are in a passionate relationship when at that moment in time... even show dancers. By having them play a role, it looked so very fake and in-sincere.

Posture: They're doing the diametrical opposite of what AT posture should be. Too ballroom-y. They look like this : \ /. When they should look like this / \

Judges: Based on their critiques of the dancers, I'm not quite sure they know what they were talking about. Len was close to what I would agree with.

I hope it gets better with time, if they keep on doing this.

[chachachacat]

I also liked Gilles and Cheryl best. The rest of the tangos did not impress me.

I wish we could fast forward and get rid of Holly Woz Lawrence and Steve O. I'm glad they are having a double elimination. Have a quadruple elimination. These people are painful to watch.




(sorry my comma still does not work)

[salsera_alemana]

Thanks to Me, Steve Pastor and Ampster for your detailed expert opinions on the AT dances.

What I get from all three is that the dances were better than I thought. You all explained very well why I thought what I thought: fake poses, wrong posture and the "non lead and follow look".

[Angel HI]

As the show has gone on, the pros have developed followings of their own which gain them votes. At this point, when a complete unknown is introduced as a new dancer, he has a big uphill battle to compete with the "regulars" for attention from the viewers. I think SYTYCD is really the only source.Not completely, but....disagree. Yes, the pros have developed followings of their own, but the public just wants a good show. New pros come on (Julianne and Derek were not originals); some leave and are not missed (Mr Edyta and/or Louis); the public will get behind good dancing regardless.

[Angel HI]

Me's post http://www.dance-forums.com/showpost.php?p=680355&postcount=51 is extremely accurate.
I thought some of the AT last night was better than what I've seen on SYTYCD over the seasons. When Derek stated that "I don't know much about this dance", I think he meant to say, I've never competed at this, and I'm not at the same level as my other dances.
In fact all of the pros looked good, so I just don't buy that this is something they aren't familiar with.
Disagreed. The AT on the UK show has been quite bad, but has also grown over the seasons. these pros do not know AT, and as Me said, we got what, or even better than we could expect, so it was OK. Re Derek, I believe that he said exactly what he meant. The pros looked good b/c they are pros, and dance is dance, and they know how to make dance look good...not b/c they know anything about AT (which was evident). Edyta, whom we would watch washing dishes, just because, looked the worst. She was terrible. As Me said, Cheryl, whom I wouldn't even watch washing dishes, surprised me wonderfully. Good for her.
There are several different styles of Argentine Tango. What they were doing is called "Fantasia," a.k.a. "Show Tango." This is the AT you do for show and/or exhibitions. It is something you would never do on a social dance floor.

That being said I would say Guilles, was OK, Li'l Kim was tolerable. The rest were just bad.

The music were actual tango music. Derek was given amilongo. It was NOT a tango. I just wish they chose some music that was less challenging. With better arrangements. It would have allowed them to dance better and un-rushedAgreed. The fact is that AT is just nto the mainstream BR dance that some of the others are. The producers choose bad music for the known dances, and I was quite surprised that the AT music was as good as it was. The yjust aren't familiar enough w/ it to know the nuamces of what to play, and when.

*** Lastly, having nothing to do w/ AT, I am sickened to death of the judge's blatant disdain for Steve (Apple). If they didn't want him there, something should have been done before hand, but there is no need for the public disgrace that they are putting him through.

Did someone else notice the actions and the faces of Carrie Ann and Bruno when Tom was announcing that Steve would dance next? They had their minds made up then that they didn't even want to see him. I pray that someone has this taped, and will review it. It's disgusting. IMPO, I thought that his dance was the best he has done all season, and didn't deserve to be last.

[Shandy]

Watched DWTS on-line last night (am in the UK) and I really enjoyed the show. The comraderie of the crew shines through the tv screen.

On the AT routines, I agree with what has already been said but wanted to add

Lil Kim - what gorgeous, sensual feet she has, Kim absolutely caresses the ground at times. On her VT she asks Derek with help on her swivels, he obviously didn't succeed - I wish he'd got in a female AT dancer at that moment, I really felt she was ready to understand what she needed to do to improve.
An AT dancer would have helped her use disassociation - a movement that I have no doubt Kim would have achieved. (I could also add she would have helped her understand the soft knee/straight leg and movement from the hip).
But most of all, an AT dancer would have choreographed in more movements using Kim's totally natural caressing feet. (By doing so, it would have brought in the softness and intimacy that Len wanted).

Gilles - played to his strengths and a good choreographed routine. Made me think of Antonio Banderas in Take the Lead (which I suppose it was meant too). The boy can dance and having seen his VT, I'm happy to believe that he isn't a dancer (his first steps were not those of a dancer) and that he is just really hard working and talented. Kudos to Cheryl, as well.

Know nothing about Lindy Hop - but I know I love Ty and Chelsie.
Melissa does nothing for me, a trained dancer/cheerleader should be good, nay excellent and she was but a) for me to 'approve' I'd want her to change her major fault (ballet training) and she didn't and b) I'd just prefer to watch the professionals instead, but it's lovely that Tony is having fun this season, so that's a good thing.

[Angel HI]

- I wish he'd got in a female AT dancer at that moment, I really felt she was ready to understand what she needed to do to improve. An AT dancer would have helped ..... But most of all, an AT dancer would have choreographed Just wanted to iterate these good points.

[Steve Pastor]

The AT on the UK show has been quite bad, but has also grown over the seasons.
Er.... SYTYCD is the Fox show So You Think You Can Dance.

And, now that I'm posting again, I want someone to show me (not merely assert or point to text on a web site) that "true" lead follow is anything but a recent development in AT. I have yet to see a book written up through the 1970s that talked about each individual step being led.

When a man kicks backwards between his partner's leg's, he is doing a gancho. It should be obvious that it was not a move that was led.
"When air hooks collided with memories of the leg play of maxixe, the rise of the gancho became inevitable."
(Although I have been taught how to "correctly" lead both the gancho and boleo, I have been dancing long enough to understand that it happens otherwise with great frequency.)
If you grant the woman the freedom to improvise, she, too, is free to kick between the man's leg, as she should be free to do boleos, as does the man without being led.
"Petroleo developed this step and gave it its name: developed it, not invented it, for Mendez kicked back in the 1930s and so did the black dancers in candombe and Kongo".
The question then becomes, how well were those movements performed? In some cases quite well, I thought.

Was any of this not a choreographed routine?
"Improvised performance" is almost an oxymoron, I'm afraid, even among high level dancers and musicians. Expecting to see it on a show like this is asking for the moon and the stars.

Granted, I may have just been in a good mood last night, but I have seen professional dancers make their routines look less lead/follow that some of last night's routines. And those dancers were (probably) doing the same routines repeatedly.

It just so happens that many tangos are written in 2/4 time, as are milongas. Listen to TodoTango, and you may often wonder why one is called a tango and another is called a milonga. And, I do not accept that anyone has to do milonga steps, so if you dance "tango" to a "milonga", so what?

"Fake poses" come to us via roots in African music and dance, and are about the relationship between the dancer and the music.
Posture, or amount of forward lean varies greatly in AT. The only "wrong posture" is bad posture, or leaning away from your partner. Visit the AT section for discussions of posture.

[waltzgirl]

And, now that I'm posting again, I want someone to show me (not merely assert or point to text on a web site) that "true" lead follow is anything but a recent development in AT. I have yet to see a book written up through the 1970s that talked about each individual step being led.




I don't know about the history of AT, but how could a dance that, as I understand it, began as a social dance have been anything other than lead and follow?

And perhaps books before the 70s didn't stress lead and follow because it was taken for granted that partner dancing was always lead and follow. It's only since the nature of social dance changed in the 60s that lead and follow dropped out of the general understanding of dancing and then perhaps had to be specified in discussing a dance.

[anp73ga31]

Gilles is safe. Shawn is safe(Tom says something about Mark hopefully not coming back ni same outfit or something kind of funny like that). Football player is safe. Who is voting for this guy? At least the Woz's attitude is good. LT just sat there and said in disgust [about the judges and his dancing], "if they dont appreciate it, then they dont appreciate it". Um, they dont appreciate it because not even Edyta looked good during your dance! If there is one thing I cant stand is someone who thinks they are better than then are.

No surprise, Holly in the bottom three. Too bad because at least she loves the outfits and the dances and just enjoys being there (and doesnt care when they say she sucks). Whereas LT just complains and fusses because they dont "appreciate" his dancing. :rolleyes:

Chuck and Julianne safe.

Steve-O in bottom three. Please god let the Woz also be in the bottom three!

P.S. And please god let Ty be safe!!

[anp73ga31]

Lil Kim safe.
Melissa safe.

I'm going to guess DAG or (hopefully) the Woz in the bottom three. It better not be Ty!!!

LOVED the dance choreographed by Louis Van Amstel. I saw Jonathan and Anna and I think Urs and Agnes (I recognized him from ABC/OSB but couldnt place the name....thanks to someone on MOIB chat for mentioning the names so I could look up their pics) but who was the other couple?

[anp73ga31]

Ty safe! :bandit:
The Woz in bottom 3! :D
DAG safe! :cool:

Oh and call me dumb but I finally got why mark and shawn had "shark" on their shirts during the performance last night.

Shawn + Mark = Shark!

I know, I know, duh. But I just didnt get it before until they showed the shirts someone made for them saying vote for shawn and mark and then bam! the brain worked. lol! :rolleyes:

[anp73ga31]

Leaving tonight:

Holly and Dmitry. Bummer!
Steve and Karina. Woo hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Me]

I was very sad to see Steve leave. I still don't understand why everybody gave him such a rough time. I think his tango was his personal best this season. I would be honored to have somebody like Steve as a tango student. He has such a wonderful and optimistic attitude, and truly appears to enjoy the dance. His tango was not bad. I could easily see Steve becoming one of "the favorite" guys at milongas (tango dance socials).

[anp73ga31]

you are right....it probably WAS his personal best, but I just couldnt bear to watch even his personal best anymore. And I had to mute the tv when the judges went to comment because they were so ugly about it (not his fault, they were just being ugly, which was uncalled for)!

Here's the thing...I think we generally like to watch ppl who cant dance learn to dance and we generally applaud their progress. But not so much so when they are so very, very bad that its pretty much watching them walk rather awkwardly around the floor while their dance partner wraps herself around and over and under him to make it appear like they are dancing. I'm sure it was his personal best, and I'm glad he had fun and I wish the judges had not been so ugly to him, but it just got to where not even his cute and cuddly, positive personality could make his dances look any better.It was like Jerry Springer...I loved him, but hated to watch him dance. In the end even he was embarrassed and begging ppl to let him go before he hurt himself or embarrassed himself further.

That all being said, I wouldnt have minded if Lawrence Taylor had gone before the Woz (just because of his attitude). And I have to hand it to Steve for giving Holly and Dmitry props for their dancing backstage. He seems like a nice guy, bless his heart. He just couldnt dance....almost forgot! anyone hear the rumor that he was going to walk Karina down the aisle? I think she really liked him!

Speaking of milongas (which they have once a month at a couple of the local ballroom studios), I wonder if having AT on the show will up their attendence? Although they already have good attendance here...salsa and AT being the most popular which is why some of the studios are starting to cater more to the salsa and AT ppl rather than the ballroom ppl. I would be offended (one studio dropped our ballroom socials to do milongas and salsa nights, which left everyone scrambling to figure out where to go dancing since they cut us out), except for in this economy you have to go where the money is! Doesnt matter if you are a "ballroom" studio and teach hip hop or belly dancing classes so long as they help you stay open!

[Angel HI]

I want someone to show me (not merely assert or point to text on a web site) that "true" lead follow is anything but a recent development in AT. I have yet to see a book written up through the 1970s that talked about each individual step being led.I'm not certain that I understand. You can't possible be saying that lead/follow was not emphasized/taught before AT came on the scene. You know that AT/latin is my thing, but it is not the parent of lead/follow in dance. Now, I agree that the popularity of AT in amer social circles brought a rather lacking awareness of lead/follow to the social scene, but this was/is b/c BR is so often taught so poorly (as just a monkey trail of steps/patterns), not b/c true lead/follow doesn't exist. I have always insisted upon it,

Listen ... and you may often wonder why one is called a tango and another is called a milonga. Yes. I wonder how many persons know that Libertango, which literally everyone dances tango to, is actually a milonga.
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-merv/tango.gif

[Angel HI]

...but I just couldnt bear to watch even his personal best anymore. I think we generally like to watch ppl who cant dance learn to dance and we generally applaud their progress. But not so much so when they are so very, very bad that its pretty much watching them walk rather awkwardly around the floor while their dance partner wraps herself around and over and under him
We...teachers...do it everyday. It's our job, and we better bear it...with a smile.

...And I had to mute the tv when the judges went to comment because they were so ugly about it (they were just being ugly, which was uncalled for)!

I wish the judges had not been so ugly to him, Now, in this, I agree COMPLETELY. I have had all that I intend to stand from that kind of behavior. Neither one of them can probably work a computer let alone build one. It's not cute. It's not entertaining. It's trashy behavior that demeans whatever integrity the show might bring to BR. I'm writing them, again, first thing in the a.m.

[bjp22tango]

I would like to see some of the "Stars" who say they have fallen in love with dancing continue on with their training by themselves - wtih their pro partner from the show, or some other pro - and then come back to a future season and show their progress.

I think Woz would be a perfect candidate. He is out of condition right now (burn that Segway) and is starting from a much lower level than the other "stars" but he has the enthusiasm for it that could turn him into a fantastic dancer in a year or two of focused training.

I also think it would show the general public that if an uber geek can improve then the average joe (them) should find it fun also.

[anp73ga31]

We...teachers...do it everyday. It's our job, and we better bear it...with a smile.

And I've come to the conclusion that you are all saints. I just couldnt do it....there is no way! :notworth:



P.S. Can anyone identify the blond lady and her partner who danced during the vw? I could never get a close enough look at her face with the camerawork.

[anp73ga31]

never mind....i read an article which identified them as follows: "Jonathan and Anna danced with three strangers — Louis' partner was Aliona Vilani, and the other pair were U.S. Standard Finalists Urs Geisenhainer and Agnes Kazmierczak. As Urs was a dead ringer for Louis, he will forever be known to me instead as Louis Van Amstel Light." Louis Van Amstel Light! Too funny!

[mamboqueen]

never mind....i read an article which identified them as follows: "Jonathan and Anna danced with three strangers — Louis' partner was Aliona Vilani, and the other pair were U.S. Standard Finalists Urs Geisenhainer and Agnes Kazmierczak. As Urs was a dead ringer for Louis, he will forever be known to me instead as Louis Van Amstel Light." Louis Van Amstel Light! Too funny!

That is hysterical. He will forever be associated with a beer to some.

I have to say, my one gripe about the show was that they didn't announce the names of those dancers. I think it shortchanged them a bit. And I really enjoyed the VW routine. Very nice job with the choreography.

[davedove]

I would like to see some of the "Stars" who say they have fallen in love with dancing continue on with their training by themselves - wtih their pro partner from the show, or some other pro - and then come back to a future season and show their progress.

I think Woz would be a perfect candidate. He is out of condition right now (burn that Segway) and is starting from a much lower level than the other "stars" but he has the enthusiasm for it that could turn him into a fantastic dancer in a year or two of focused training.

I also think it would show the general public that if an uber geek can improve then the average joe (them) should find it fun also.

I love this idea.:applause:

[bjp22tango]

I don't know about the history of AT, but how could a dance that, as I understand it, began as a social dance have been anything other than lead and follow?

And perhaps books before the 70s didn't stress lead and follow because it was taken for granted that partner dancing was always lead and follow. It's only since the nature of social dance changed in the 60s that lead and follow dropped out of the general understanding of dancing and then perhaps had to be specified in discussing a dance.

I would guess that true "lead and follow" has only been around for about 100 years. Waltz and Polka have been around a lot longer, but Tango and Foxtrot are the oldest of the dances we still call by the original name, don't you think? and they became popular in the 1900's and teens. Everything else we still dance as ballroom, latin, or swing dances came after.

[Merrylegs]

Didn't they bring back Drew Lachey the season after he won? Maybe it was when he was covering for Samantha Harris during maternity leave, but I cannot recall exactly.

I agree with this, it would be nice to see the "stars" keep up with ballroom since they put so much time into it.


I would like to see some of the "Stars" who say they have fallen in love with dancing continue on with their training by themselves - wtih their pro partner from the show, or some other pro - and then come back to a future season and show their progress.

I think Woz would be a perfect candidate. He is out of condition right now (burn that Segway) and is starting from a much lower level than the other "stars" but he has the enthusiasm for it that could turn him into a fantastic dancer in a year or two of focused training.

I also think it would show the general public that if an uber geek can improve then the average joe (them) should find it fun also.

[danceronice]

Didn't they bring back Drew Lachey the season after he won? Maybe it was when he was covering for Samantha Harris during maternity leave, but I cannot recall exactly..

Drew did co-host duties while Samantha was on maternity leave.

Many, many people wish he'd kept her job.

[Merrylegs]

Uh, my point was that I was actually referring to the time he returned a season or so later and revived his routine with Cheryl to the "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" song. It was a great routine to a fun song and I know that many people liked it.

I think Samantha is nice and always has good gowns and hair. I look forward to seeing what she is wearing--when i actually remember the show is on, that is.

It's live tv, stuff happens.

[Wolfgang]

I'd like to know why a high-dollar, high-glamor show such cas DwtS can't get a 1-week fill-in host for an embarrassingly sick Samantha Harris?
What if she coughs on somebody and makes them sick?
This season is already an on-air field hospital.

Wasn't fond of Karina Smirnoff impersonating Marlene Dietrich and The Woz channeling a fire hydrant.

Did not see Holly 'fall off a chair', ok, she's not a great dancer, but that is at least in part the fault of a pro partner who obviously doesn't care.

I'm going to predict that Julianne and Chuck will be headed for Splitsville as soon as her album outsells his.

Steve-O sucks.
No other way to describe this.

L.T's Tango was there in spirit - if not in execution - and might have looked better had Edyta worn an entire dress instead of the glitzy bathing suits she is so fond of.
We already know she has the longest legs in the business, no need to prove it every single time.......

Gilles was full-on in his element, AT is his dance, helps that he looks the part.

Sure Tony Dovolani is having fun - he has a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader to dance with!
Who nailed her routine!

Shawn's Lindy was surprisingly flat and odd, mostly Marks' fault, he's no choreography wiz like Derek.
Shame, this should have been her dance and it wasn't.

[gingerbread]

I'd like to know why a high-dollar, high-glamor show such cas DwtS can't get a 1-week fill-in host for an embarrassingly sick Samantha Harris?
What if she coughs on somebody and makes them sick?
This season is already an on-air field hospital.

Wasn't fond of Karina Smirnoff impersonating Marlene Dietrich and The Woz channeling a fire hydrant.

Did not see Holly 'fall off a chair', ok, she's not a great dancer, but that is at least in part the fault of a pro partner who obviously doesn't care.

I'm going to predict that Julianne and Chuck will be headed for Splitsville as soon as her album outsells his.

Steve-O sucks.
No other way to describe this.

L.T's Tango was there in spirit - if not in execution - and might have looked better had Edyta worn an entire dress instead of the glitzy bathing suits she is so fond of.
We already know she has the longest legs in the business, no need to prove it every single time.......

Gilles was full-on in his element, AT is his dance, helps that he looks the part.

Sure Tony Dovolani is having fun - he has a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader to dance with!
Who nailed her routine!

Shawn's Lindy was surprisingly flat and odd, mostly Marks' fault, he's no choreography wiz like Derek.
Shame, this should have been her dance and it wasn't.

I so agree. I felt badly for Shawn because Mark wasn't creative enough. I would have liked to see her do the kind of choreography that Tony gave Melissa. Shawn had nothing to work with.

[I-Man]

I hope people understand not all tango sounds like scary black and white circus nightmare music.

Indeed. Locally, I struggle with the local DJs from the Ballroom scene who believe that they have to play a tango "march" in order for the music to be a good tango. Tango does not have to have a heavy marching beat to be a good tango (actually I find most tango marches to be quite boring), nor does it have to be endless repeats of the "scary" tango theme from the theatrical rendition of "Phantom of the Opera" :doh: .

Since the producers (or those in charge of music selections on this show) are so concerned with popular, contemporary, recognizable tunes for the comps, they could have easily used a selection like "Epoca" by Gotan Project. Granted, its a bit overplayed, but at least those familiar with AT music can stomach it a bit better for the purpose of watching DWTS. "La Cumparsita" may be a bit too hackneyed for use, but whatever. Those people will do whatever they want to do.

Random surprise of the evening... The first perfect 30 of the season was from an AT routine

Good catch!

[NonieS]

I was pleased that the Woz had actually improved!!! This was by far his best dance... I hope he keeps dancing/taking lessons even though he was voted off because he clearly seems to love it :) He has a wonderful positive attitude as well...

And I agree, the judges were way way WAY too harsh on him!!! I don't believe in criticism unless it is in some way constructive. If you are only saying what you're saying to beat someone down (as opposed to giving them ideas for improvement) then you shouldn't open your mouth at all... of course that is just my opinion.

idk it just bothers me that they harp on about how Steve-O is so brave for dancing with his injury and trying so hard and then slam the Woz for being a bad dancer when he has had no movement training, is almost 60, and has had 2 serious injuries, AND is trying pretty freaking hard as well... it is just unequal treatment and it irks me.... btw I would rather watch Woz over Steve-O any day.. they are both terrible, but where Steve-O is rather painful to watch, the Woz is at least endearing...

[NonieS]

and also... to the people saying that Shawn's routine was flat.. it didn't do anything for me either... I loved her tricks, however, but I could understand the judges criticism...

[emeralddancer]

well since Carrie Ann is going to be at Nationals .... MAYBE some of you who meet her can tell her your ideas/opinions.;)

I am sure some will too. LOL :rolleyes:

[Beto]

well since Carrie Ann is going to be at Nationals .... MAYBE some of you who meet her can tell her your ideas/opinions.;)

I am sure some will too. LOL :rolleyes:
Please, *somebody*, do this and get it on video. Would love to see CAI's reactions. :p

[wooh]

Please, *somebody*, do this and get it on video. Would love to see CAI's reactions. :p

I'm sure USA Dance will be sure to keep the lowly dancers away from CAI, wouldn't want her to find out just how unwanted she is.:rolleyes:

[Steve Pastor]

how could a dance that, as I understand it, began as a social dance have been anything other than lead and follow?
Bit of semantics here...

Most texts teach sequences of steps. AT, as currently taught, seems to emphasize the fact that patterns are mere tools for learning, and you should feel free to break them.
West Coast Swing, and perhaps Swing in general, also is big on learning to "improvise" rather than memorizing and constantly repeating set patterns.
In AT you get this pretty much out of the box.

Even now in AT you get a lot of lead an ocho, get several; or lead the first step of what might be a giro and get the whole pattern. The man is still leading, but only the first step, and the woman takes it from there because she knows (or thinks she knows) what is coming next.

This does not mean that when you get to higher levels, old time dancers didn't improvise, it's just a matter of when you address it.
Performers can make it LOOK LIKE they are doing lead follow even though they are doing a set routine, and can cover up any deviation with little problem (usually).

(Now I'll read the other answers.)

[RickRS]

Shawn's Lindy was surprisingly flat and odd, mostly Marks' fault, he's no choreography wiz like Derek.
Shame, this should have been her dance and it wasn't.

The whole thing looked like a gymnastic routine, not a dance. Sometimes the star's strength gets in the way...

[Angel HI]

I'm sure USA Dance will be sure to keep the lowly dancers away from CAI, wouldn't want her to find out just how unwanted she is.Indeed!
Even now in AT you get a lot of lead an ocho, get several; or lead the first step of what might be a giro and get the whole pattern. Oh, spot on. So funny. Glad it's not just happening to us.

[Wolfgang]

I'm far from a Tango 'expert' , but here's my impression:
The American - and to some extent European - concept of what a Tango is seems to be largely shaped by the super-ultra dramatic and 'angry' staccato type Tango you see in some movies and shows.
Even pro dancers and dance teachers often tell people to look 'angry' or 'mean' when they're doing Tango.
Which is probably what has led to the 'scary circus march' image we have on display today.

All this is ok for 'Ballroom' Tango, which has steady, rather 'dramatic' beat and encourages showy figures such as promenades, huge ochos, fans, etc.
Not so good for Argentine Tango, which I have always had the impression is rather small, round and intimate - it would kind of have to be, being danced in tiny little smoky cafés jam-packed with little round tables and customers.
There's one studio here where - imho - they do it pretty much the way it's supposed to be done, emphasizing the 'interpretive' nature of the dance.
Since tempo and even rhythm changes constantly, you are forced to 'feel' the music rather than execute one school figure after another - unless of course, you've heard that particular tune so may times, you know exactly what's coming.......
They do use a lot of 'alternative' music - some of which has about as much to do with Tango as it does with celine Dion or Hip-Hop - but I'd say it's good practice for the 'instinctual' interpretation of the music, which is one of the main hallmarks of AT.

[I-Man]

The American - and to some extent European - concept of what a Tango is seems to be largely shaped by the super-ultra dramatic and 'angry' staccato type Tango you see in some movies and shows.
Even pro dancers and dance teachers often tell people to look 'angry' or 'mean' when they're doing Tango.
Which is probably what has led to the 'scary circus march' image we have on display today.

All this is ok for 'Ballroom' Tango, which has steady, rather 'dramatic' beat and encourages showy figures such as promenades, huge ochos, fans, etc.
Not so good for Argentine Tango, which I have always had the impression is rather small, round and intimate -

I think that all the people I know who are interested in Tango became interested (at least at first) because of the romance of the dance or because of the sexiness of it (an example of what I mean can be seen in the Antonio Banderas' Tango Scene from the movie - "Take The Lead" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6VvR3hkePI). But, it's too bad so many of these interested newbies unwittingly run to their local ballroom instructor first, only to wind up being subjected to those less-than-romantic tango marches.

Of course what drew me to AT was not only the music (definitely more passionate and intimate) but the sheer challenge of realizing there are "no set patterns" in this dance, relying instead on heavily musicality and interpretation, lead and follow, and ... he he he... I'll be honest ... those sexy "loose leg" boleos on the part of the followers *wink*! Heck, I've even found the "paradas" to be sexy (when it perfectly matches the music)!

[two_left_feet]

Was that Karen Hardy from Strictly Come Dancing during the Viennese Waltz pro dance on this week's results show? Louis, Jonathan, Anna, and another female pro were the dancers.

[Angel HI]

Even pro dancers and dance teachers often tell people to look 'angry' or 'mean' when they're doing Tango.This is so stupid. A couple of nights ago, I actually saw a teacher laughingly giving a student an instruction re tango; still laughingly took the student into dance position; and w/ the first step, immediately changed the laugh into a scowl. :doh:

[GJB]

Was that Karen Hardy from Strictly Come Dancing during the Viennese Waltz pro dance on this week's results show? Louis, Jonathan, Anna, and another female pro were the dancers.

I thought it might be Aliona Petrenko dancing with Louis.

[TemptressToo]

My ballroom instructor didn't say "mean"...just serious. He said apparently tango was originally danced between men (it was taboo to dance that close with a woman)...thus the "serious" expression and posturing.

['round Midnight]

TemptressToo, your teacher is propagating a myth. In 19th century Buenos Aires, there were many more men than women. The men PRACTICED with each other in order to become skilled enough to gain entrance to the milongas, where the organizers would only let in a limited number of men.

[Steve Pastor]

Both the serious expression and the "posturing" have been linked to traditions in African dance that had an important influence in the development of AT. At one point in the 19th century 1/3 of the population of Buenos Aires was black.