Have you noticed?

[Pacion]

Or is it something that is slowly changing?

Many guys tend to marry a girl that looks like and some cases even sounds like their mother :shock: where as girls/women tend to go for "just about any description" ie. not a father lookalike :lol: but the guy might still have certain traits just like "Dad" or even a grandfather, if they had a close relationship.

This is inspired by tj's comment that girls expect guys to change but guys don't expect the girls to change :twisted:

There was a time when quite a few couples I knew could have even passed for "brother and sister" so close was the "resemblence". Or, the girl could have physically passed for a younger version of his mother.

I think though that that has changed alot in recent years. Not sure why or what triggered it.

[tj]

Or is it something that is slowly changing?

Many guys tend to marry a girl that looks like and some cases even sounds like their mother :shock: where as girls/women tend to go for "just about any description" ie. not a father lookalike :lol: but the guy might still have certain traits just like "Dad" or even a grandfather, if they had a close relationship.

This is inspired by tj's comment that girls expect guys to change but guys don't expect the girls to change :twisted:

There was a time when quite a few couples I knew could have even passed for "brother and sister" so close was the "resemblence". Or, the girl could have physically passed for a younger version of his mother.

I think though that that has changed alot in recent years. Not sure why or what triggered it.

Hmm... I don't think I see this with people that I know, but I'll have to think it over some more...

For me, most of my friends who are married, engaged, or in relationships, I don't see it. Then again, I don't know too many parents of my male friends.

Could you give more examples?

[Sagitta]

I expect girls to change!! AS for mother and father characteristics, etc, my mother and father are of two different cultural generations, even though they are ten years apart. My mother is more open while my father is more old fashioned. For instance I could talk to my mom about dancing with a gay guy, while my father might find it harder to accept, even though I personally am not gay. Growing up as part of a liberal open generation as well I think it is natural that I would want someone who shares my values. It's just a coincidence that they are closer to my mother then my father.

[Pacion]

tj, or how about the couples resembling each other, which of course may not quite work in a multi-racial relationship, but then again, even the eyes or the smile could be "identical"?

Like quite a few girls/females, I am closer to my Dad than my Mum. I do have certain qualities/traits of my Mum that recently I have had to laugh to myself and say that I am really my mother's daughter :D Whilst I am not conscious of "having the father complex", there are certain qualities of his that I do really treasure. What is spooky though is when I see a guy's hands and I think that they look just like my Dad's :shock: (which thankfully does not happen very often :lol: )

[tsb]

as someone who functions as a lay counselor and is working towards a degree in marriage & fmaily therapy it's been my experience that the vast majority of people make these choices subconsciously and would probably deny the parental influence even if it were obvious to everyone else around them. i found it was true for me looking at it in hindsight concerning one girl i was engaged to.


Many guys tend to marry a girl that looks like and some cases even sounds like their mother :shock:


and often expect them to function in the role of their mother (except for the sex!)


where as girls/women tend to go for "just about any description" ie. not a father lookalike :lol: but the guy might still have certain traits just like "Dad" or even a grandfather, if they had a close relationship.


or not - women who've had abusive fathers tend to choose abusive men as mates. i've also noticed that if women feel like they didn't get something from their fathers, approval & affirmation into adulthood in particular, they tend to seek it in their relationships with men.


This is inspired by tj's comment that girls expect guys to change but guys don't expect the girls to change :twisted:


guy's views & values tend to change every seven years or so as they mature. but some guys just merely get older, like my co-worker who ended up getting divorced after 15 years of marriage because he wanted to maintain the same hot-tub-bottle-of-wine kind of routine & his wife (who is a beautiful woman and worked really hard to maintain her looks & figure) didn't. after the divorce he took to chaning into running shorts after work and walking around trying to impress his female co-workers - who basically laughed...


I think though that that has changed alot in recent years. Not sure why or what triggered it.

i don't know how much different it would be in the UK, but it's my take that the general view of the family has defintely changed, not necessarily for the better.

[Pacion]

where as girls/women tend to go for "just about any description" ie. not a father lookalike :lol: but the guy might still have certain traits just like "Dad" or even a grandfather, if they had a close relationship.


or not - women who've had abusive fathers tend to choose abusive men as mates. i've also noticed that if women feel like they didn't get something from their fathers, approval & affirmation into adulthood in particular, they tend to seek it in their relationships with men.

There's a book I read a few years ago called "Women who love too much" by Robin Norwood so what I am recalling is a bit rusty. What she said (and it made sense to me) is that the child in the adult subconsciously seeks to recreate the situations in which they felt helpless as a child, to try and conquer/win that situation. Hence, the girl with the alcoholic/substance/emotional abuse father "dates/marries" the guy who is one of the following, in an attempt to succeed where she perceived she failed as a child - which is a crazy feeling because as a child you can't control these things but, that little child in the adult just can't see that.

Robin Norwood also gave examples of couples - one abusive, the other "recreating" and the abusive/dependent one literally changed and got their act together. The husband/wife was then unable to handle the "new person" and instead of the marriage/relationship surviving and strengthening, it ended in separation :?

i don't know how much different it would be in the UK, but it's my take that the general view of the family has defintely changed, not necessarily for the better.

Can you explain/elaborate a bit more?

[TemptressToo]

Well...I will say that I look a lot like my boyfriends mother when she was my age. Her hair was my lenght but lighter...but the same facial structure, big blue eyes, and sharp wit. ;)

Oedipus complex???

[tj]

Ok, I agree with the whole "abuse" direction - that there's the tendency for someone with a history of abuse to seek out the same all over again.

And I think I agree with the theory of people seeking out mates who remind them of their parents. They know how their parents interacted and picture themselves in the same sort of roles.

I guess I'll just have to plead ignorance in that, when it comes down to it, I don't know enough parents of people that I know.

[Pacion]

I guess I'll just have to plead ignorance in that, when it comes down to it, I don't know enough parents of people that I know.

I will ask you the question again in 10 years time :wink:

[Genesius Redux]

I've actually played the role of Oedipus. And the most difficult hurdle was dealing with this woman who was playing my mother. The whole thing just seemed icky to me. So I guess it depends on the guy.

Temptress--you don't look one bit like my mother, and I happen to think you're just about the cutest thing on two legs I've seen in a while. Even cuter than emus and meercats.

Interracial dating--what's race? Attraction is attraction. You're either there for it or you're not. And there are lots of things that attract men to women that have nothing to do with their mothers. Pacion--the generous heart you have under the quick wit. Pygmalion--the fact that you say just about everything I think before I think to say it. ShyDancer--your earthy good humor under your sensitive sould. Salsachinita--your romantic, wild, and untameable spirit. Peach--your quiet self-possession. In fact, I can be in love with every woman on this board for attributes I know only through correspondence and that seem to be uniquely hers. I have no desire whatsoever to be with a mother replica.

I've not read the comment about women wanting men to change, so I'm not sure what I think about it specifically. But I don't think it's so much about change--but women in my experience definitely want to feel needed and valued for what they can give. The easiest way to feel needed is to be the girl who rescues the guy from his own beastliness. But that's also what's most likely to result in a very dysfunctional relationship. I think many women tend to see what a man can become--so much so that some lose track of who he is, or is likely to be.

For guys, though, I think it's slightly different. While most women look to be needed, most men look to be understood. And the quickest way to any guy's heart is not to be like his mother, but to convince him that you understand him the way nobody else does.

Cheers,

Genesius

[tsb]

where as girls/women tend to go for "just about any description" ie. not a father lookalike :lol: but the guy might still have certain traits just like "Dad" or even a grandfather, if they had a close relationship.


or not - women who've had abusive fathers tend to choose abusive men as mates. i've also noticed that if women feel like they didn't get something from their fathers, approval & affirmation into adulthood in particular, they tend to seek it in their relationships with men.

There's a book I read a few years ago called "Women who love too much" by Robin Norwood so what I am recalling is a bit rusty. What she said (and it made sense to me) is that the child in the adult subconsciously seeks to recreate the situations in which they felt helpless as a child, to try and conquer/win that situation. Hence, the girl with the alcoholic/substance/emotional abuse father "dates/marries" the guy who is one of the following, in an attempt to succeed where she perceived she failed as a child - which is a crazy feeling because as a child you can't control these things but, that little child in the adult just can't see that.


i've heard this line of thinking, which definitely has merit, but i don't think explains every situation like this. what i believe also comes into play is that people tend to view their own experiences as normal. i offer as an example an account from a close friend who is a psychiatrist. during a date with a co-worker, they discussed their backgrounds. he mentioned that he had a pretty normal childhood, his date responded in kind, then went on to describe how her father had once held a gun to her head as a hostage when he was being confronted by the police. my friend looked her in the eye & said as gently as he could: "_______________, you did not have a normal childhood." he doesn't if the coin ever dropped for that person. another friend related how it wasn't until he was in his 30's that he understood what being bipolar was - and how it described his mother's behavior. turns out he had married someone who is bipolar - but it was considered normal behavior to him. another facet to this is that we as children believe our parents to be loving and kind. having to acknowledge that they weren't, for whatever reason, is very painful thing to face - and it generally takes some sort of crisis (where the pain of change is less than the pain of staying the same) to get them to take that leap. going back to the abusive situation, i think it's more often a case of: "this is normal, & i'm just doing what's normal"


Robin Norwood also gave examples of couples - one abusive, the other "recreating" and the abusive/dependent one literally changed and got their act together. The husband/wife was then unable to handle the "new person" and instead of the marriage/relationship surviving and strengthening, it ended in separation :?


classic codependency - couples get together because their baggage accessorizes well together (pun intended); their unhealthy needs are met only within the lack of emotional health of their partner.

dance partners can illustrate this example very well - if you dance with just one partner more often that not you learn how to accomodate your partner's deficiencies, so much so that when the partner makes a correction, it now feels "wrong" because you've been used to the old dynamic and you have to make an adjustment as well. you also see this in alcoholic situations - which is why groups like al-anon have been formed.


i don't know how much different it would be in the UK, but it's my take that the general view of the family has defintely changed, not necessarily for the better.

Can you explain/elaborate a bit more?

this is more about my own personal world view & about what's right & wrong, so rather than risking offending some folks, i would prefer to PM you about this if you don't mind.

[tsb]

Well...I will say that I look a lot like my boyfriends mother when she was my age. Her hair was my lenght but lighter...but the same facial structure, big blue eyes, and sharp wit. ;)

Oedipus complex???

oedipus complex, as i understand it, manifests itself in boys around the age of five where they see dad as a rival for mom's affections in a spousal relationship. the boy eventually goes back to being a boy and the conflict disappears.

[Pacion]

Pacion--the generous heart you have under the quick wit. Pygmalion--the fact that you say just about everything I think before I think to say it. ShyDancer--your earthy good humor under your sensitive sould. Salsachinita--your romantic, wild, and untameable spirit. Peach--your quiet self-possession. In fact, I can be in love with every woman on this board for attributes I know only through correspondence and that seem to be uniquely hers. I have no desire whatsoever to be with a mother replica.

:oops: Thanks GR. Incidentally, when are you converting to Islam so that you can marry all of us :wink: :D

And the quickest way to any guy's heart is not to be like his mother, but to convince him that you understand him the way nobody else does.
So it's not through his stomach? Whew! I can throw away all those cookbooks now :D

Seriously, I do believe what you say is right/true and the bit about "convincing him" (I would add her) " that you understand him/her the way nobody else does" applies for both men and women. Just ask Julio Inglesis/Tom Jones! They sing as if they are singing to me, the female, as if I am the only one in the room - the only one they have eyes for, and soppy me, will go and buy their albums everytime :lol: From a female perspective, I think that is where the phrase "loveable scroundral" comes into play also. The woman KNOWS the guy is a "good for nothing, son of a gun" with about 200 girlfriends. BUT, because he looks at her as if she is THE ONLY WOMAN IN THE WORLD, sigh, he gets away with it, almost everytime :?

[Pacion]

i don't know how much different it would be in the UK, but it's my take that the general view of the family has defintely changed, not necessarily for the better.

Can you explain/elaborate a bit more?

this is more about my own personal world view & about what's right & wrong, so rather than risking offending some folks, i would prefer to PM you about this if you don't mind.

Ok

going back to the abusive situation, i think it's more often a case of: "this is normal, & i'm just doing what's normal"

I have never studied these sort of situations but my gut feeling (and own limited experiences, as my parents were not substance abusive and I am not aware of knowing anyone who was) suggest that that there is truth in what you say. But, I also believe that a child can subconciously know that "something is not quite right", even if they don't know anything else. They pick up the vibes/unhappiness/anger. Therefore, Mom craving another drink and turning the house upside down or Dad shouting all the time may outwardly seem normally but the child will know "it is not normal". :? When and how denial kicks in, I don't know.

[tsb]

And the quickest way to any guy's heart is not to be like his mother, but to convince him that you understand him the way nobody else does.

So it's not through his stomach? Whew! I can throw away all those cookbooks now :D

Seriously, I do believe what you say is right/true and the bit about "convincing him" (her)

we all respond positively to anyone who can make us feel special. but speaking solely for my gender, i think it pretty astute that even the scriptures point out that harlots don't win men over by the looks or perfume, but by their flattery. and other than harlots, nobody's gonna cheer you on like momma!

[Pacion]

tsb :roll: I hope you are not calling/suggesting I am a harlot :roll:


:lol:

[tsb]

the PM is on its way but may take a while; i'm an extreme extrovert and need time to synthesize a coherent response.

going back to the abusive situation, i think it's more often a case of: "this is normal, & i'm just doing what's normal"

I have never studied these sort of situations but my gut feeling (and own limited experiences, as my parents were not substance abusive and I am not aware of knowing anyone who was)


actually i wasn't thinking about substance abuse as much as physical, emotional & sexual abuse. the friend who is a psychiatrist is actually a child psychiatrist & he's told me stories and described pictures his patients have drawn (preserving confidentiality) that have left me wanting to go out and hurt someone.


suggest that that there is truth in what you say. But, I also believe that a child can subconciously know that "something is not quite right", even if they don't know anything else. They pick up the vibes/unhappiness/anger. Therefore, Mom craving another drink and turning the house upside down or Dad shouting all the time may outwardly seem normally but the child will know "it is not normal". :? When and how denial kicks in, I don't know.

there is often denial going on in these situations, not only self-denial but the lies that are made up to cover for the abuser to the outside world. and kids can be conflicted because they see how important it is to the spouse to pretend like nothing's wrong.

[squirrel]

interesting topic...

I too have noticed a weird tendency for people to look for similarities with their parents, or try and re-create in their private lives situations from their past family experiences...

I myself have done and am still doing it... and it feels very weird at times to observe similarities between my SO and my father... :)

Freud rules!

[johnnywalker]

tj, or how about the couples resembling each other, which of course may not quite work in a multi-racial relationship, but then again, even the eyes or the smile could be "identical"?

My wife and I are in a multi-racial relationship (bit of a tongue twister...say that one three times very quickly :D ). She is Australian with Welsh and Scottish blood and i'm Australian with Filipino and Spanish blood.
I don't think either of us chose one another for any resemblance we bore with our parents. I personally would not want her to be like either of my parents. Don't get me wrong, I love both of them and we get along but my wife is her own person and that's how I would want her to be. My wife's father is a dominating and prejudiced person who does not allow his wife her own pleasures (hobbies, interests etc) and expects everything done for him. I am quite the opposite; my wife would not have married me otherwise.
Having said that, I do have a number of male friends who seem to have partners who are similar to their mother. When single they would not cook for themselves, wash and iron their own clothes etc. Now that they are in a relationship I seem to find that they haven't changed and that their partners do all the housework. My wife would string me up by the short and curlies if I just sat back and did nothing!!
Fortunately, my parents taught me housework at an early age as they were both shift workers.

[salsachinita]

This is inspired by tj's comment that girls expect guys to change but guys don't expect the girls to change :twisted:

I've been thinking about this a fair bit, since first reading it from TJ's post. I dare say I am no closer to having an answer :? .

I think I've read somewhere in the past something like: "When we get married, we are actually marrying three people: the way he/she appears to be in your eyes, the way he/she really is, & the way he/she will become."

.......pretty close to the truth, me thinks :? ........

*I love my dad & look for similarities in a man......not sure if it's a good thing :? *

[tsb]

tsb :roll: I hope you are not calling/suggesting I am a harlot :roll:


:lol:

i'm afraid i'm not up on british vernacular... what i know comes from years of watching monty python. would trollop be more satisfactory? :)

speaking of MP, michael palin used the term "bink" in monty python & the holy grail (which i've watched hundreds of times, btw) IIRC, he questions the validity of king arthur's lady of the lake; "if some moistened bink lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away". that line never fails to crack me up but i've always wondered if bink is common british slang or not. would you care to enlighten me?

[salsachinita]

Salsachinita--your romantic, wild, and untameable spirit.

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: Thankyou...! I can SOOOO identify with this!
*in fact, I was looking for Pocahontas as my avatar, coz in the Disney movie this is what her father said about her----plus the fact that I bear a resemblance to her Disney image*

women in my experience definitely want to feel needed and valued for what they can give....... I think many women tend to see what a man can become--so much so that some lose track of who he is, or is likely to be.

And the quickest way to any guy's heart is not to be like his mother, but to convince him that you understand him the way nobody else does.

Great advise.....I will keep this in mind :wink: !