"They" are becoming a problem - Negative Gossip

[Me]

How do you deal with negative gossip in your dance community?

This dance community has a serious problem with vicious gossip. It is only getting worse. People seem to enjoy having a new and nasty juicy tidbit to spread around. It seems the name of the game has been "pick the victim." Like children on a playground, one professional or one dancer is singled out and slandered. "Did you hear the news? I can't say who, but 'they' said..." When you attempt to trace the source, nobody will disclose it. "Well, I promised I wouldn't say who."

I'm really not sure what to do about any of this, but this problem is becoming extremely serious. Anybody who comes into the area to offer something new is accused of competing with all of the local groups, accused of trying to steal students, accused of not being certified or of not knowing what they are doing... and of course this does not include any of the personal remarks being made. (He/She is arrogant/a liar/a thief, etc.) The students, all ages, men and women, seem eager to spread this negative gossip... and then smile in the face of the people they slander. The source of the gossip is always a mystery.

I've been speaking with some of the leaders in our ballroom community, and nobody has any ideas.

I would really appreciate your ideas and suggestions to pass along. Thank you so much!

[fascination]

I have no control over negative gossip...only whether or not I spread it... I can't control anyone else's behavior

[DL]

My off-the-cuff $0.02:

Don't reward the gossipers with attention.
Do publicly humanize the targets of the gossip.

[Larinda McRaven]

I have no control over negative gossip...only whether or not I spread it... I can't control anyone else's behavior

yup.

[fascination]

My off-the-cuff $0.02:

Don't reward the gossipers with attention.
Do publicly humanize the targets of the gossip.
excellent

[emeralddancer]

Honestly, this type of thing is becoming more and more common. I see it and have been at the butt of it myself.

Me I am naturally someone who confronts an issue head on. I have no problems with confrontation at all. (not many can handle me because of this, sigh)

It is one thing to have a person vent because they are angry. We all do that. It is quite another to speak behind another persons back. (generally we KNOW the difference!)

When I have been the listener, I have actually stopped a person from speaking and said I cared not to hear any of it. Of course then I am "rude", but I will not listen to someone attacking another with the intent to "hurt" them in anyway. PERIOD. And honestly do not care at that point if they like me or not, if I have peeved them off or not, etc.

I have also been on the other end of those talking about me .... in some instances I have confronted the person(s) and been like "so I am being told blah, blah, is there something you would like to tell me?" (especially if it is something that may hurt others and I care more about others than myself honestly) AND I also (glutten for punishment here) like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Other times, I let it go because I know me, I know how I treat others, and my actions follow my words. People see that. Or rather the people that know me and care about me. So others gossip will not run me off. It just presents itself a new challenge and I LOVE challenges. :cool:

But to stop it is a hard thing to do. Stand up and say you do not want to hear and be involved. Get involved with who is being put down. Continue to be positive and those that are positive will be drawn into you.

We can not change the world but one person at a time .... and in this case it will be you speaking positive, helping those that are being "hurt" by the meanness. Plant the seed. water it. And you will sleep well at night!

Trust me .... it may take awhile, but others will follow your lead. Be bold! Take a stand and good luck!

[samina]

My off-the-cuff $0.02:

Don't reward the gossipers with attention.
Do publicly humanize the targets of the gossip.

i like that.

yah, just don't give it an ear or any energy. MYOB. in my particular community, there are a couple individuals known as gossipers. i treat them warmly but never, ever encourage them to get their stories grinding. other than that, i've never experienced negative gossip buzz at our studio. it's just not part of the general culture, thank goodness.

[Angel HI]

Unfortunately, there isn't anything to do about it but not be involved. The way to stop it is for everyone to stop the gossiper from talking the very minute they say, "Don't say I told you, but....", or "I can't say who said this, but....". Of course, I understand that your post is not how to stop persons from spreading negativity, but how to stop persons from wanting to spread negativity. The answer is education.

[Me]

I am in complete agreement with you guys. We have adopted an "I don't want to hear it" policy. So far the only thing that happens is they just go tell somebody else about it. And the wildfire continues. The only way a rumor seems to stop is when people run out of dancers to spread it to. And then a new rumor is started.

Students spreading the gossip is such a huge problem. How do we break this cycle of behavior? Again, the source seems impossible to trace. We would all love to identify the source/sources, but that seems pretty unlikely, unless somebody here has suggestions?

Angel_Hi you say... education? Are we talking just in general? Or, is there a way to educate these dancers to be nicer?

[Larinda McRaven]

You educate by example. And you stop giving in to it.

[fascination]

I find the serenty prayer to be helpful on this account...there is a reason it is so popular in 12 step groups...it really is essential to only concern oneself with what one actually has control over or can effect...persons who enjoy gossip, whatever their motives (though status, power, insecurity, and fear tend to be paramount) are not going to be stopped...if you can't even identify who is doing it, all you can do is what others have suggested...refuse to listen and humanize the target...it is so much wiser to simply be with good like-minded people and let the folks who need to do that swim in their own poison without you....

[Me]

Lots of green support. Thank you guys. :)

It is like these particular types of students are swimming in poison, fasc. That is such a good analogy for this behavior.

Well, we'll just continue to stick together and collectively attempt to set a better example. Maybe I'm too impatient and expect change too quickly.

[fascination]

I must say though...the subject does fascinate me...I guess (because I am a fairly aggressive) person I have never felt the need to gossip... I am fully capable of causing harm face to face such that as far as people on the periphery go, I don't really see a need to drag them in to my views on someone else...and the people who have hurt me the most (and whom I have hurt the most) aren't people I want to gossip about, because they are the people I have cared for the most.... and even if those relationships are over, other than some pouty snarky comment that I might share with someone who knows I am just hurt and don't really mean it, I have never felt the desire to bring others in on my junk...and if it is stuff that is about someone who isn't significant to me, why on earth do would I care or want to participate? (particularly since I have no clue as to the veracity of it?)...that is why I don't worry about gossip overly much, b/c I think all grown-ups know that we are all fallible and have all probably been slandered or had our true secrets exploited hither and yon...so when i see someone doing that I just move away from them as quickly as possible, and if I know that they are off the mark i will say so upon making my exit...still, I tend to think that most folks who gossip are passive aggressive and not very courageous and that doing that sort of thing makes them feel more in control of the world...so I sort of pity that ....but I don't worry much that others will believe them

[fascination]

Lots of green support. Thank you guys. :)

It is like these particular types of students are swimming in poison, fasc. That is such a good analogy for this behavior.

Well, we'll just continue to stick together and collectively attempt to set a better example. Maybe I'm too impatient and expect change too quickly.
I empathize...I used to fancy that I had that sort of ability to help effect more change than is possible...but none of us does...and that isn't apathy, we all have our limits...best to you...hug

[Spitfire]

While I don't see much of this in those communities I'm familiar with it does happen occasionally. I've always believed that this is often from those who feel insecure and uncomfortable with themselves and/or envious of whomever they are gossiping about. It is unfortunate since dancing is suppose to bring us together and not divide us.

[waltzguy]

A lot of good solutions here. Perhaps another is to encourage the gossiper to talk directly to the person at the butt end about the said issue. See what the response is.

[flashdance]

reverse psychology always works - bake the gossipers a cake with some special ingredients ;) Is that custard? :eek:

if there's one thing that narks me off it's those who gossip behind people's backs - especially if its unfounded rubbish.

[SQ_F05]

Maybe you could have a Dancer's Community Dance or something, market it so a lot of the people come and make an announcement that either subtly or openly gets the message across that the dance gossip is getting way out of hand. The dance could be like a reconciliation?

Or if you have a dance newsletter, feature an article about stopping the dance gossip. Make people aware of how their errant rumors are hurting everyone, that they need to treat each other with respect.

[QPO]

I find any community that is small can go that way....so I agree the you have to stop the cycle....Dont get involved in it and if someone tells you something of a negative nature I would say that I am not interested it gossip. I do believe there is an element of human nature.

[Standarddancer]

My off-the-cuff $0.02:

Don't reward the gossipers with attention.
Do publicly humanize the targets of the gossip.

love this!!! Gossipers stink!!!

[Angel HI]

I've always believed that this is often from those who feel insecure and uncomfortable with themselves and/or envious of whomever they are gossiping about. It is unfortunate since dancing is suppose to bring us together and not divide us.Couldn't agree more.

And, to answer your question, Me, by education, I mean making them better persons...teaching them how to act. This can not be done directly, but indirectly in the ways that many have suggested here. Isn't it interesting that when someone is acting as gossipers and trouble makers do, in Spanish, the saying is not that the person is rude, or of no moral, but that the person has no "education"?

[tsb]

i'm more a "if you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem" type of person. as such, the answer IMO is not just not gossiping - it's about finding something nice to say about others - difficult though that may be.

[lcdancesport]

Gossip isn't something you can easily avoid, it's everywhere. Don't feed into it and that weed won't grow, taking over all the good things in the studio.

[nucat78]

Ove the last year, a small group of newcomers who hang out together have joined the studio and they have developed a habit of gossiping. It's not all negative but some has been.

For example, I am romantically involved with my VW partner. A worthy goal but not acccurate.

And a certain leader only comes to our studio to try to hijack students. Perhaps some truth to that but I don't see him as hijacking students, just making them aware that he teaches private lessons himself.

And a certain lead wears a hairpiece. No idea if that's true, nor do I care.

Personally, I just don't repeat things nor do I try to get "the dirt" on anybody from the gossipers.

And the laugh is on them because they have no idea who I really am dating at the studio...

[lcdancesport]

i'm more a "if you're not part of the solution, you're still part of the problem" type of person. as such, the answer IMO is not just not gossiping - it's about finding something nice to say about others - difficult though that may be.

Yes. Seems a lot of it comes from jealousy or feeding off another issue and using gossip as an outlet.

[Bella]

Everyone's guilty of negative gossip... whatever the intent... we're human afterall.

[lcdancesport]

Gossip is a tool to feel better about ourselves. Sad. There definitely are groups formed at our studio. A lot of it is an age thing or those who compete, versus those who are social dancers.

[Me]

I really appreciate the advice.

I admire the approach of killing with kindness... but to date, this just hasn't worked. If anything, I wonder if a display of kindness (turning the other cheek, so to speak) gives the gossiper the sense they have "gotten away with it" and they take this as encouragement to continue? Is this kindness interpreted as weakness?

It is my interpretation that some of these people are functioning on a lower level. All kidding aside, they're like the sulky monkey at the zoo. The only response they seem capable of is screaming and flinging poop. How do you reason with that?

[fascination]

you don't reason with it...you can't fix it...nothing will work...that is the whole point...it is for them to change...you can be as persuasive and clever and as wonderful as you like and it won't always effect a change (good to try but...)...when you have tried and tried there is a point when you just have to surrender it...BTDT... bought the shirt and the pants

[Larinda McRaven]

But What does it matter to you if they have "gotten away with it"? You are not the judge and jury and saviour. Or their Mom.

If the value of not gossiping is so important to you...then you live it. But imposing your values onto them is no better than how "low" you assume them to be.

You can't change them. Only create a better immediate space for your own self and know that you will attract like minded individuals. What you advertise is what you get. And advertising intolerance for someone elses human-ness will only bring more intolerance towards yours.

[Me]

What does it matter to you if they have "gotten away with it"? You are not the judge and jury and saviour. Or their Mom.

It matters because my original question was how to discourage or stop gossip. Several people here suggested the kill them with kindness approach. I answered with the observation that this has been tried and the gossip only continued, and I was questioning whether the kill them with kindess approach would work, or exacerbate the problem because people perceive that they "got away with it."

[fascination]

thing is...I appreciate the noble intent...really I do...and I am not advocating apathy...but it really does seem that you are trying to effect change on something that you simply have no control over and that your positive energies are better directed elsewhere

[Me]

...BTDT... bought the shirt and the pants

I also own the stylish tote bag! And the mug...

[fascination]

I hope that someone may have a positive solution for you but the only positive one that I have invloves only your power to change how it pre-occupies you and how you direc t your own energies...some folks are resistant to change even if you should go to the ends of the earth for them and are certain you are correct...it simply doesn't matter b/c they do not see it that way...and they won't...sometimes the best way to help people is to leave them to their own devices

[fascination]

I also own the stylish tote bag! And the mug...
there's a tote AND a mug:shock:...stop the presses...must go try to save the world again:D

[Me]

NOOOOOooooo......

[Larinda McRaven]

I mean why are you spending energy trying change someone else from enjoying a value and a lifestyle they obviously enjoy. It is not your life they are living, it is their own. I hear you when you say that their actions create a quality to the dance community that you don't enjoy. But again as just about Everyone has said, you can't change them (nor do I believe you should try, again not your job in life to fix everyone else to suit your moral judgements)

But rather be a spectacular woman and display the qualities you hope the world to be filled with.

[Larinda McRaven]

And if you think about it the "kill them with kindness" is STILL not about changing their behaviour so much as your own.

[QPO]

true and insightful

I mean why are you spending energy trying change someone else from enjoying a value and a lifestyle they obviously enjoy. It is not your life they are living, it is their own. I hear you when you say that their actions create a quality to the dance community that you don't enjoy. But again as just about Everyone has said, you can't change them (nor do I believe you should try, again not your job in life to fix everyone else to suit your moral judgements)

But rather be a spectacular woman and display the qualities you hope the world to be filled with.

[lcdancesport]

Right. Start the change with yourself and you'll see everything in a new light.

[reb]

Welcome to Dance Forums SQ F05!

[Larinda McRaven]

huh?

[fascination]

double huh

[QPO]

??????

Did we miss something

Welcome to Dance Forums SQ F05!

[SisterShimmy]

Welcome to Dance Forums SQ F05!

Page 2

[SPratt74]

I've been thinking about this post for awhile now. I wanted to find the best way to answer this as I understand what the OP is going through. I think that first off, we all have to remember that everyone reacts differently to situations. Here's the thing that I've learned is that you have to keep doing what you love doing. You can't let anything get in the way of doing what you love.

I realized with me that all I could do was to ignore it, move on, and to get better at what I loved doing the most. Yes you get hurt, and probably won't even forgive those involved. But the only thing is that you have to remember is why you got started to begin with. I had to think back on that one as so many things happened since then, but then I realized I was in it for me... not anyone else. If you realize this, then nothing can destroy you. It's not so easy to give up then.

And yes they won't leave either as they have their own reasons for doing the activities that they enjoy. So, you just have to find a way to work around them. One of the best ways is to not get involved. Stay out of their way, and they'll probably find someone else unfortunately to hunt down instead as they will get bored with you soon enough.

And I don't get why people do that. However, one reason that I came up with was jealousy. I couldn't think of what if only they knew my life and more about me they wouldn't find anything to be jealous about, or at least not to me anyways. But other than that, my guess is that they have other self involved issues regarding themselves rather than anything to do with me.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is I understand all to well what you are going through. And I won't judge you harshly if you don't do this or that, because we do act differently to situations. But if anything, try not to let anything get in the way of what you want to accomplish, and smile at the end of everyday knowing that you've stayed in an activity that you love despite everything accomplishing something that you never thought possible!

[Larinda McRaven]

Wow, S. That was a very thoughtful post. Nice job.

[emeralddancer]

I've been thinking about this post for awhile now. I wanted to find the best way to answer this as I understand what the OP is going through. I think that first off, we all have to remember that everyone reacts differently to situations. Here's the thing that I've learned is that you have to keep doing what you love doing. You can't let anything get in the way of doing what you love.

I realized with me that all I could do was to ignore it, move on, and to get better at what I loved doing the most. Yes you get hurt, and probably won't even forgive those involved. But the only thing is that you have to remember is why you got started to begin with. I had to think back on that one as so many things happened since then, but then I realized I was in it for me... not anyone else. If you realize this, then nothing can destroy you. It's not so easy to give up then.

And yes they won't leave either as they have their own reasons for doing the activities that they enjoy. So, you just have to find a way to work around them. One of the best ways is to not get involved. Stay out of their way, and they'll probably find someone else unfortunately to hunt down instead as they will get bored with you soon enough.

And I don't get why people do that. However, one reason that I came up with was jealousy. I couldn't think of what if only they knew my life and more about me they wouldn't find anything to be jealous about, or at least not to me anyways. But other than that, my guess is that they have other self involved issues regarding themselves rather than anything to do with me.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is I understand all to well what you are going through. And I won't judge you harshly if you don't do this or that, because we do act differently to situations. But if anything, try not to let anything get in the way of what you want to accomplish, and smile at the end of everyday knowing that you've stayed in an activity that you love despite everything accomplishing something that you never thought possible!

great post

[wooh]

I've been thinking about this post for awhile now. I wanted to find the best way to answer this as I understand what the OP is going through. I think that first off, we all have to remember that everyone reacts differently to situations. Here's the thing that I've learned is that you have to keep doing what you love doing. You can't let anything get in the way of doing what you love.

I realized with me that all I could do was to ignore it, move on, and to get better at what I loved doing the most. Yes you get hurt, and probably won't even forgive those involved. But the only thing is that you have to remember is why you got started to begin with. I had to think back on that one as so many things happened since then, but then I realized I was in it for me... not anyone else. If you realize this, then nothing can destroy you. It's not so easy to give up then.

And yes they won't leave either as they have their own reasons for doing the activities that they enjoy. So, you just have to find a way to work around them. One of the best ways is to not get involved. Stay out of their way, and they'll probably find someone else unfortunately to hunt down instead as they will get bored with you soon enough.

And I don't get why people do that. However, one reason that I came up with was jealousy. I couldn't think of what if only they knew my life and more about me they wouldn't find anything to be jealous about, or at least not to me anyways. But other than that, my guess is that they have other self involved issues regarding themselves rather than anything to do with me.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is I understand all to well what you are going through. And I won't judge you harshly if you don't do this or that, because we do act differently to situations. But if anything, try not to let anything get in the way of what you want to accomplish, and smile at the end of everyday knowing that you've stayed in an activity that you love despite everything accomplishing something that you never thought possible!

I think this is the best post you've ever had on this forum. Very good advice.

[fascination]

ditto

[SPratt74]

Wow! Thanks everyone. All I can say is that I learned... I learned.

[Larinda McRaven]

http://thenextweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/hi.jpg

[SPratt74]

http://thenextweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/hi.jpg

If that was meant for me, then thank you! ;)

[LovingIt28]

I've been thinking about this post for awhile now. I wanted to find the best way to answer this as I understand what the OP is going through. I think that first off, we all have to remember that everyone reacts differently to situations. Here's the thing that I've learned is that you have to keep doing what you love doing. You can't let anything get in the way of doing what you love.

I realized with me that all I could do was to ignore it, move on, and to get better at what I loved doing the most. Yes you get hurt, and probably won't even forgive those involved. But the only thing is that you have to remember is why you got started to begin with. I had to think back on that one as so many things happened since then, but then I realized I was in it for me... not anyone else. If you realize this, then nothing can destroy you. It's not so easy to give up then.

And yes they won't leave either as they have their own reasons for doing the activities that they enjoy. So, you just have to find a way to work around them. One of the best ways is to not get involved. Stay out of their way, and they'll probably find someone else unfortunately to hunt down instead as they will get bored with you soon enough.

And I don't get why people do that. However, one reason that I came up with was jealousy. I couldn't think of what if only they knew my life and more about me they wouldn't find anything to be jealous about, or at least not to me anyways. But other than that, my guess is that they have other self involved issues regarding themselves rather than anything to do with me.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is I understand all to well what you are going through. And I won't judge you harshly if you don't do this or that, because we do act differently to situations. But if anything, try not to let anything get in the way of what you want to accomplish, and smile at the end of everyday knowing that you've stayed in an activity that you love despite everything accomplishing something that you never thought possible!

Great post but I think it is too hard to NOT get involved. Even if you are successful, you socially ostracise yourself as a 'loner'/aloof.

I think the key is to CHOOSE your involvement. Eg. just dance with everyone, you do not need to socialise with everyone. Pick the people closest to you carefully and ensure they understand your privacy.

That way you control things as best you can.

As for randoms speaking about you, there will always be a large amount of mis-information out there but let your actions do the talking. Eg. your dancing, your improvement and your professionalism (or for some, the lack thereof :) )

[SPratt74]

I think the key is to CHOOSE your involvement. Eg. just dance with everyone, you do not need to socialise with everyone. Pick the people closest to you carefully and ensure they understand your privacy. That way you control things as best you can.

I've learned in my lifetime that you can't ever ensure anything with life, and that you never have as much control as you think you do.

As for randoms speaking about you, there will always be a large amount of mis-information out there but let your actions do the talking. Eg. your dancing, your improvement and your professionalism (or for some, the lack thereof :) )

This is very true unfortunately! ;)

[tsb]

I really appreciate the advice.

I admire the approach of killing with kindness... but to date, this just hasn't worked. If anything, I wonder if a display of kindness (turning the other cheek, so to speak) gives the gossiper the sense they have "gotten away with it" and they take this as encouragement to continue? Is this kindness interpreted as weakness?

It is my interpretation that some of these people are functioning on a lower level. All kidding aside, they're like the sulky monkey at the zoo. The only response they seem capable of is screaming and flinging poop. How do you reason with that?

if you were referring to my post with this, then i feel that i need to amplify as this is not what i'm advocating.

an example of how i'd try to respond would be: "i prefer not to talk about things like this, because it prompts me to wonder what you say about *me* when i'm not around. don't you ever wonder what they're saying about you when you're not around? if you don't think they're not talking about you, you gotta be pretty naive." and then maybe try to find a way compliment the person involved.

[bordertangoman]

hmm; interesting; having been on the receiving end of somebody who was slagging me off to my students at a practica; trouble is the person is a machiavellian individual has a public Cambridge degree and thinks he knows better than the people coming to his classes and regards them as morons who will go along with what he says.Unfortunatley he doesn't know how to dance. He is bent on promoting his own ends and is quite convincing- to anyone who hasn't actually been a milonga elsewhere and see how people actually dance. It has done no-one any favours the community is split, most are fence-sitters and dont want to become involved and neither did I. I think the simplest answer would be to break the guys legs mafiosa style; Respect is the fundamental of being a milonguero and he doesnt respect anyone, even his partner who i think is probably torn between loyalty and behaving decently. I'm walking away. I can dance anwhere I like but I'm not waste energy on being on one side. Its not big enough to sustain two tango communities, Its a one-horse town and I'm the horse!

Someone from his classes was slagging me off at a milonga which upset some of my friends. Does what she said effect my ability to dance. No; does it improve her ability. No. So maybe she says it makes her feel better that she goes to one place than another.
My teacher is better than your teacher sort of thing. just laughed. I hate gossip and thats part of why I'm leaving and dancing further afield.

[fascination]

sounds sensible...people need to makes chocies that contribut to their own health and well-being...sometimes one has the stamina to stay and fight for a cause that is worth fighting for, if it is possible, but other times to do so is futile and self-destructive...life is to short to spend miserable...and too precious to spend with people who would create pain for you without heed...though unavoidable at times, always wise to minimize

[dlgodud]

A lot of good advice, indeed. For me, I try to stay away from people who gossip and focus on what I do. Whether you answer them or not, they will not stop gossiping about me or someone else. Just shrug, smile, and put my dance shoes and dance!