What kind of dance studio?

[pygmalion]

I spent a lot of time pondering how to pose this question in a positive way. Oh well. This was the best I could do.

Another thread yesterday got me thinking about the various options that dance students have -- franchise studios, independent studios, totally independent/freelance teachers, ballroom classes at universities, group classes at community centers, even learning by video and so forth.

That got me wondering about the relative merits of each path, and why people choose the options they do. In tons of threads here, we've trashed the franchise studio system. But franchise studios have been around and thriving in the US for almost a hundred years (Arthur Murray started teaching in 1912) and they're still going strong. So even franchise studios, with some admitted problems, must be providing some value added.

Then there's the whole question of dance studios in the UK and the rest of the world. How do things work there?

Anyway, so it's a long-winded topic, but the question is what kind of dance studio have you chosen and why? What are the pros and cons of your choice? Value added for you? Thoughts, anyone?

[virginiadancegirl]

This is an interesting topic to me, because I never intended to get involved in the "ballroom world".

I was approached by my partner, who is opening a studio, to come train and teach with/for him. I have heard lots of horror stories of various other types of studios, as well as independants....

Personally, I like the way my "business" is working. But it's the only way I know.......

Don't know if this really helps further the topic, but I sure tried! :?

[johnnywalker]

Hi Pygmalion

I originally started in a franchise studio which taught the Social American style and spent several years (and much money) there. I thoroughly enjoyed the experience and took what I had learnt with me. However, I found it to be too expensive so decided to leave. I then tried a couple of independant studios learning international style and finally settled into my current one with which I am extremely happy.
As much as we tend to denounce franchise studios (like Arthur Murray and Fred Astaire) they do encourage people to enjoy themselves, they create a healthy social atmosphere and, for a few people I have met, they have fostered confidence. It was always good to see some of the shy new students come out of their shells.
My personal experience would be as follows -

Franchise Studios - offer the better social environment (although my current studio addresses this). The ones I know of all teach Social American style which, in many ways, is more suitable to many of the clubs i've been to (given the floor size and high patronage). The downside is they tend to be more expensive.

Independant Studios - All except my current studio do not encourage social gatherings; therefore, after class has ended everyone tends to go off in their different directions. The students have to take the initiative to invite one another out to clubs etc.

Community Colleges/Centres - Courses are too short (generally 8 weeks at a time where I live). They tend to fall somewhere in between franchise and independant.

Videos - I bought a couple out of curiosity but would only ever use them to supplement what I have already learnt in class (mostly as *******er)

I believe more importantly, irrespective of the path taken, that it should provide you with enjoyment and hopefully create an interest in you to want to learn more in either your chosen style or new styles. Also, if it has created any positives for you (healthier lifestyle, friendships, improved attitude, helathier esteem etc) then that's a bonus.

[TemptressToo]

I have very limited dance experience (only been doing it a couple of months)...anyway, I've had both experiences...so here is mine.

Franchise: Doesn't matter which one. Let's just say I had one lesson and never went back. The minute I walked through the door, I sensed a cold tension in the air that made me uncomfortable. It was so sterile and I didn't feel welcomed at all. My teacher was great and broke the ice a little. But afterwards, instead of doing a soft sell and giving me some information...I had the hard sell "give us money" crammed down my throat by my teacher's boss. This didn't go over well with me.

Independent Studio: At present, I am learning and enjoying doing so at a little local studio. Funny thing, half the instructors are um' franchise-certified but managed to escape. The atmosphere is warm and friendly. The instructors are all now friends (which students are allowed to 'fraternize' with--as in after party dinners, etc.). There are sales pitches, but basically you are welcomed to take it or leave it. Although I have only been dancing for four months, I pick up things very easily and am enjoying group technique and advanced latin classes. Also, I am able to throw in occasional private lessons (which AREN'T $90/hour). Best of all is the weekly practice parties where I get to dance AND work on some of the stuff I had just learned.

[pygmalion]

You indirectly brought up a great point, there, TemptressToo. How many of the independent teachers out there would be in the dance business at all, if it weren't for beginning training at franchise studios? Some, but not many, I'm guessing, at least in the US.

[Porfirio Landeros]

My path and experiences go as follows:

Cotillion: Good for beginning lessons (for children), but a lot of the time is spent on etiquette, which isn't a bad thing.

College Club: Great for social experience, and an opening into the competitive world of dance.

Franchise Studio: Given I already had a cotillion and a college club under my belt, the franchise was only good for occassional social dances and some private lessons to help with some competitive routines.

Independent: I had to start dabbling with independent studios to find specialists in what I wanted to compete in. Also, the freedom to come and go as we please makes you realize what a pressure/sales environment the franchise world can be.

In the end, I probably could have skipped the franchise in my personal progression. I still attend collegiate events, and who knows, maybe I'll go back to a cotillion to brush up on my manners.

[Laura]

I had a very positive franchised studio experience. An ex-boyfriend invited me to a social dance, where of course all the male teachers danced with me in an attempt to convince me to start to take dance lessons. I was having a great time so I said sure why not.

The lessons were quite expensive and they were often trying to get me to buy huge blocks, but I never let them push me into anything that I couldn't afford. Ditto for competitions. My teachers were fabulous. One went on to be the multi-time US Open Pro Standard champion. Not the franchise's champion, but the NDCA champion who goes on to the WD&DSC world championships. Another went on to win a US Rising Star Standard title (again, not the franchise title, but the NDCA title). I didn't know how good I had it there at the time...anyway, I danced there for about a year and a half working on Bronze level Standard & Smooth and doing three competitions.

The point of this story is that if you're quite lucky you can have an amazing experience at a franchise, but you have to be clear and firm when it comes to the financial aspect of things. And as always, it's always good to shop around to see what the differences are, because not every franchised studio is the same, and neither is every independent studio. Go to a couple of group classes and parties at each place and see what place fits you the best. What's really important is the quality of the teachers, how the studio is managed, and how you feel about the other students -- not what the name above the door is.

That said, based on pricing policies alone, I'm not planning to ever go back to a franchised studio. In my experience they tend to be much more expensive than taking directly from an independent teacher. I suppose if I moved to a new city I'd ask people about all studios, including the local franchises, but I doubt I'd end up back in a franchise unless word of mouth compelled me to give it a try.

[DanceAm]

I am not totally against Franchise studios, and if I may, let me defend them from what I know. Franchise studios were needed to develop and standardize dance in the US. They charge more because they train more teachers and cultivate the professional competition we have today. Even Ben and Shalene were part of a franchise, it would be a shame that a couple as good as they are might not have even pursued dance had there not been a franchise studio for them to teach, make a living and get training. In our independant studio, all but two of our teachers were trained in a franchise studio. They put more money into dance than any other type of studio and Dancesport would not be where it is today without them. They have standardized pricing and are usually more organized. Some may goes as far as to become your slave at a comp, carrying your luggage, getting you drinks, accompanying you to all your meals. Nothing is wrong with that.

Independant studios are seen as leeches of Dance by the franchises. The teachers get trained by franchise studios and move on and make more money on their own and are accused to stealing students as well. They see their investment in a dancer become a competitor and that makes it harder for them to stay in business. They make these teachers sign non-compete aggreements and that is their way of protecting their investment. These non-competes are really not valid in our state except to prevent them from opening a studio, they can't prevent a teacher from making a living.

Let's look at the independant side, our studio has no employees. We don't dictate pricing of private lessons, but we do have a standard for groups, but the teachers do not have to do a group class unless they want to. We also do not require any teacher to be in the studio when they are not teaching or getting a coaching. Since most of our teachers have been trained somewhere else, they have their students that have followed them there. We don't solicit teachers from other studios and we don't solicit students from other studios. However, when they call or walk through the door, we inform them of what we offer. A 15 dollar floor fee is charged for each lesson, and the teacher gets the rest, and out of that, they pay for their own coachings, advertising, certifications, and of course their living expenses.

I am part owner of this studio, along with other former students of other studios. We started this studio because we were tired of following our teachers running from studio to studio all over town. Our aggreements with the teachers basically stipulate that they will pay us a floor fee for lessons taught and conduct themselves professionally while on our premises and share the floor and music equally with the other teachers. The studio has yet to make any real money above its expenses and in fact from time to time, the owners chip in for a shortfall. The biggest problem we had was a group of teachers banded together and took almost all of the students and most of the teachers and started their own studio. They banded with another studio that was about to go under. Six months later, we are back making expeses, new teachers, new students doing fine and getting better. The other studio, they could't afford their lease and moved into a closet of a studio. We later heard that they were waiting for us to go out of business so they could take over our space. Sorry to disappoint them. (heh, heh)

Reasons they gave for leaving, they didn't want "Students" benefitting from the sweat of their brow. How ironic coming from a teacher that was teaching 9 hours a week, and I never saw her sweat.. They also said they were doing all the work to keep the studio going, which was mostly true, but they were also getting the money. I guess what they didn't realize was running a studio has overhead costs that must be paid first. The "students" as they kept referring to us as, were comprised of independant business people, doctors, lawyers, accountants and myself, a technical professional. None of us were in it for the money and any money the studio made would have gone back into it and pay off the initial debt of the biggest item, the floor. The new group of teachers we have seem to have grasped the concept of being independants, we stay as uninvolved with their business as we can. Some teachers make it, some don't. Some just do it part time and a few have professional aspriations. In the end, I don't see the teachers making much more money as an independant, but more of having control of their future. They can choose their coaches, they can take a week off whenever they want, they can choose which comps to go to. If they owned their own studio, when they took off, the studio would be closed during that time and the expenses would still be there. In our environment, they pay the expenses as they go.

Since all the "Student Owners", have full time jobs on our own, the glory of being a studio owner is taking out the trash and cleaning the bathrooms and washing the dishes and keeping track of the books. It is a labor of love more than anything else. I think the difference between our studio and the others is this: Our owners love to dance, we take lessons and they consider other students as people and treat them as such. At our social dance parties, we dance and have fun just like the other students. Some of us compete, some don't, but whenever we dance, the spirit is genuine. Some teachers never come to a social party, we have been told that they would only do it if they get paid. Some have said that they have not had a Friday night free in years and like that freedom again to have a social life. All I can say is don't come to the party if you don't want to. But the more successful independant teachers show up at the parties. Whether they are pretending to have a good time or they really enjoy it, they see how important it is to keep their students happy and how good it is for their business.

For the accusations by the franchise studio, none of our teachers have come from that studio until their non-compete was up. Other teachers have come from studios that went out of business. Most of what comes through the door is by word of mouth. All of the owners are USABDA members, but we really don't get support from the chapter as a whole. Many were scared away when we had the mass exodus and everyone thought we would fail. To be honest, I had my reservations about making it, but enough people believe in the concept that it works and will continue to work. The teachers have found out that since they teach, they should get the bulk of the money, and they do. With minimum overhead, the charge less, make more money and the students and get better prices as well. They also say you get what you pay for implying that the quality of our teachers is less. First they say we are stealing their teachers, then they say the quality of our teachers is lower. If the first is true, how could the second be true? We see what happens at comps, we know who has the better students and teachers. Keep the lies flowing, people will see the truth soon enough.

We don't have non-competes and we don't take any action against a teacher that goes elsewhere and takes his/her students along with him. It is free enterprise and we don't try to control anything. I think as long as we offer top quality at a fair price, we will stay in business. Our students will stay with us longer and share this as a lifelong activity.

[KevinL]

Anyway, so it's a long-winded topic, but the question is what kind of dance studio have you chosen and why? What are the pros and cons of your choice? Value added for you? Thoughts, anyone?

The biggest issue for me, based on my history, is what is (or was) available where I live. I started dancing in the swing scene in Southwestern Connecticut (Mystic and East Lyme, specifically) with classes from an independent teacher who was actually an attorney by day, but was the best local lindy hopper available. There may have been a small dance studio in East Lyme, but I'm not sure. I danced with a part time teacher because that was what was available.

Then I moved to the Bay area, and suddenly I had choices. Several large ballrooms, some small ballrooms, and lots of independant teachers. I chose the Metronome Ballroom because they had a teacher training program, and I really found the environment friendly and inviting. I still did (some) private lessons and classes with independent teachers, but most of my time, money and effort was spent at the Metronome.

After I got my teaching certification (through DVIDA), I moved to Vermont. Except for a few schools that teach ballet and tap/jazz to children, there are no permenant full-time dance studios in Vermont. The Vermont Dancesport Academy teaches really great competitive dancers, but that is a very small market, and it is not full time. A salsa studio opened last fall, but they only have classes on Monday and Wednesday, and classes/socials on Friday.

I don't feel that a full-time studio would be able to exist here because the population is small, and the interest in dancing is not that large.

To reply to the real question, though, what kind of studio have I chosen? A mobile studio, I teach one night each week in three different communities, and hold a dance in two of those communities once a month. The USABDA dance is in the other community, so that's already covered.

If I were in a place where I could actually chose to continue training, I would choose an open friendly environment with the best teachers available. How would I know? I'd visit all the studios and join their dance parties, and then I'd take one or two private lessons with whoever was far enough ahead of me to be worth taking private lessons with before deciding to commit to anyone, and even then I wouldn't sign long-term contracts. That's not how I deal with my students, and it's not how I would want to be worked as a student.

Kevin

[JohnK]

DanceAm - sounds like a nirvana setup for independent teachers and their students, though it sounds a lot like a "not for profit" for you. Best of luck to you for your continued success. Don't let the trash talkers get you down, your actions will always speak louder than their words. In what part of the country are you?

[KevinL]

DanceAm,

What you describe does sound wonderful. The most-used dance space locally runs sort of like that. It used to be a social club, but now various teachers rent it one night (or more) each evening to teach group classes. The thing is that the "owners" of the building don't dance, and just use the income to pay the heat/air conditioning. That makes it very cheap to rent he space.

Good luck!

Kevin

[DanceAm]

I am in the southeast, that is about as far as I want to pin point it.

[pygmalion]

Yes, DanceAm. It does sound like you have a wonderful set-up. 8) Does anybody else have recommendations/opinions on things that work or don't work for dance studio choices?

How about studios wth large teaching staffs versus small studios with a staff of one or two?

[ShyDancer]

Then there's the whole question of dance studios in the UK and the rest of the world. How do things work there?

Anyway, so it's a long-winded topic, but the question is what kind of dance studio have you chosen and why? What are the pros and cons of your choice? Value added for you? Thoughts, anyone?

From the sound of it, studios both franchised and independant run very similar in Australia as the do in the US.

I chose an independant studio. I didnt choose it on a whim, I spent a lot of time researching each studio I wanted to try. They included, franchised, independant and private instructors.
I checked all the principals and senior teachers credentials that they placed on their flyers/websites with Dancesport Australia too.
Then went and tried them out.
I found them all very different, but I found the independant studio had the best atmosphere. Really relaxed and the teacher made it lots of fun, so much so that I never left :D The teachers really encourgaed us to attend the social that followed our class (at no extra charge) and they would also stay for social and dance with us or get some of the regulars to dance with us. It was a really great experience.
However that didnt stop me trying out other places, I found one of the biggest franchises in the state was a really bad experience, I was there 10 minutes and they were trying to get me to enrol into medal classes, suggesting private lessons and trying to sell me dance class packages! The teachers were also second rate, in my opinion anyway.
The private instructors werent bad, but they really lacked the social atmosphere, they didnt run social nights and thats half the fun for me.

The encouragement I received from the independat studio was invaluable, honestly I think if I had not have found this studio I would not have continued to dance.

[dancin_feet]

I'm actually confused as to whether my studio is a franchised studio or not. There are five locations, the General Manager teaches in one studio and he also runs the organisation that does the administrative side of the studio. I believe he owns four of the studios, but one studio is always referred to separately, so I believe that this may be owned by someone else but still uses the overriding organisation for it's admin and step syllabus. So strictly speaking I suppose, it's not franchised but a multi location independent?

I found the ad in a local paper and decided to phone up. No great choice involved. I loved the atmosphere from day one, the social aspect, services they offer, etc. I wasn't really interested in credentials of the teachers, etc. Though I know now that I could probably learn from my instructor for the next 10 years without a problem.

[DancePoet]

I started with an independent studio. It was recommended by a friend who suggested I attend their inaugural open house event. The atmosphere seemed friendly, flexible, informative, and no pressure.

I attended a weekly beginners group class which was held the hour before a social dance and stuck around for the social dance to practice what I had learned. The social dances are usually offered twice per week. The studio also puts on special events, classes, workshops, encourages folks to compete if they are comfortable, etc. The words that best describe the studio are choice, freedom, personable, and social.

Now I take individual lessons that focus on the details of dance and where I can make the choices as to the overall focus while the instructor focuses on the details of my broad choice. I also now take group classes that focus on particular dance styles.

I feel very lucky, and thankful I was pointed in this direction.

[Kitty]

Merits of university ballroom dance teams:

- it is a group class where everyone is supposedly training for competitions or performances, so everyone supposedly has the same purpose. Therefore the focus in the class would be on technique. This gives good results: some people are able to place out of syllabus without having to take a single private lesson!
- you have to pay very little or not at all (compared to cost of classes someplace else)
- the coach - always the same one (or two) is stays with the team for a long time, so she knows every person's strong and weak points and therefore can help better.
- there is no defined curriculum (which doesn't mean we are wasting time, but means that we are more flexible). The coach teaches what she thinks is important to work on at the moment.
- great social atmosphere. Team feeling. Also teams usually organise their own socials.
- it is on campus! (Great for people who don't have cars!)

Feel free to add to this list.

- disadvantages include
- not everyone having same dedication level.
- people that don't come to every single practice (because of some kind of scheduling coflict, or homework)
- people starting or dropping out in the middle or at the end of a semester. (and slowing everyone down)
- dealing with university bureaucracy. Lots of work for students in charge.