Friendliness on the Scene

[volleybgrl]

Hey all-

Last night, after meeting people at a salsa social, we all decided to get a late night snack at a local pizza place. As we were all eating and talking, I realized that I barely knew half the people that I was with :shock: , but our love for salsa fostered a sense of camaraderie and affinity for each other. I have yet to meet someone that I don't like, and I don't think there's any sort of tension between members of our salsa community, even though our community is somewhat small. Everyone seems like they're genuinely friendly and want to be part of a big family. I wonder: is this the case for all dance scenes, or is our community just lucky? Comments welcome :D

[tj]

Hey all-

Last night, after meeting people at a salsa social, we all decided to get a late night snack at a local pizza place. As we were all eating and talking, I realized that I barely knew half the people that I was with :shock: , but our love for salsa fostered a sense of camaraderie and affinity for each other. I have yet to meet someone that I don't like, and I don't think there's any sort of tension between members of our salsa community, even though our community is somewhat small. Everyone seems like they're genuinely friendly and want to be part of a big family. I wonder: is this the case for all dance scenes, or is our community just lucky? Comments welcome :D

IMHO, there's not a more subjective highly individualized question than that!

I think individual experiences vary across the whole spectrum with this one!


(...but hey, congrats! Sounds like you've met some nice folk!)

[Sagitta]

A lot of it has to do with the type of person you are. If you are friendly, open, welcoming...people tend to respond positively to you.

[volleybgrl]

IMHO, there's not a more subjective highly individualized question than that!

I think individual experiences vary across the whole spectrum with this one!


Then let me re-phrase. What is the dynamic of your local salsa scene? What would you change? What would you keep the same? Do you have any stories to share? I'd love to hear.

[SDsalsaguy]

Hiya volleybgrl,

I actually think there's a bit more to your original post... certainly individual circumstances, personality, expectations, and happensatnces will provide for a very wide range of indiviudal experiences. That being said, I think that smaller communities lend themselves to the more friendly atmosphere you describe. This isn't to say that everyone really loves everyone else but, rather, that the dance community is too small to sustain two active factions so any differences are tucked away in a way which they are not in larger dance communities.

If you can avoid someone (and all of their friends) without losing an abundant suply of dance partners you are much more likely to do so than if the same avoidance might alienate you from a goodly portion of the available partners, no?

[tj]

Hiya volleybgrl,

I actually think there's a bit more to your original post... certainly individual circumstances, personality, expectations, and happensatnces will provide for a very wide range of indiviudal experiences. That being said, I think that smaller communities lend themselves to the more friendly atmosphere you describe. This isn't to say that everyone really loves everyone else but, rather, that the dance community is too small to sustain two active factions so any differences are tucked away in a way which they are not in larger dance communities.

If you can avoid someone (and all of their friends) without losing an abundant suply of dance partners you are much more likely to do so than if the same avoidance might alienate you from a goodly portion of the available partners, no?

Well said!

In some ways, I have had friends say that the salsa scene is lot like high school all over again. And I totally agree with SDsalsaguy's take that it has to do with the size of a scene as to the friendliness.

As far as me personally - being the extrovert/social butterfly that I am, when I go to a new scene, it's only a matter of time before I find/establish a good group of friends and start spending lots of time with them.

Back in Denver, there was a group of 5-10 of us that would get together after dancing on Mondays, and go to the local Denny's for a bite to eat. We were such regulars that the waitress would have our drinks ready for us before we even sat down! This eating after salsa was a tradition brought to us by a friend of mine who had moved to Denver from Singapore. And I'm pleased to say that the tradition has carried on even though both she and I are no longer in Denver.

I hear and see all sorts of dramas and gossip all the time. And while it's amusing at times, for the most part it gets tedious, and I'll distance myself from it. Especially from the drama queens and kings that I have known.

A lot of the groups that I have seen form, tend to be around certain instructors. In that people who take lessons together, dance and hang out together. But I'd say that this is a voluntary/willing thing, and it's not too hard to move from group to group if you so choose.

So, overall my experience is a good one. But I see lots of people get their egos stomped on - often by the very people who treat me well. I influence how I can, but it's too big a part of the scene for me to make a big stink over.

For example, one gal that I'm friendly with, shot down two guys within 10-20 seconds of each other. Very direct and mildly rude. I walked up beside her, and gave her a hard time by making jet crashing noises to her. She gave me a *look*, and then grabbed my hand and led me out to the dancefloor. Flattering for me, but rude for the two guys she just rejected offhand.

I've seen more rudeness in the 9 months I've been dancing in Seattle than I had over the 3+ years that I danced in Denver. So that reinforces my belief that larger scenes make for ruder behavior.

[squirrel]

tj, I've seen a lot of the things you mention...
Being a dance instructor, I can tell you that yes groups tend to form around un instructors... but as you said it's only natural...
The thing is that the egos and own personality traits of some people might hurt the salsa scene a lot...

[salsachinita]

Great topic, Volleybgirl!

Having been in my scene since its existence from the beginning, I can certainly tell you that it has changed a lot. We used to know everybody; and sure, there were always personal differences, but there were certainlt no segragation as it is today!

As SD had put it together so well, I wouldn't need to add much at all. As an individual who receive a certain degree of respect (out of my 'vintage' more than anything else :roll: ), all I can do is be open to everyone, while blurring the boundaries between groups as much as I can.

*We want to spread the positive vibes around, while sharing wisdoms/experiences to help eachother grow. To me, this is my family (a global one, no less!), that's the main reason why I (& many others) am here at DF :D !*

[salsachinita]

I've seen more rudeness in the 9 months I've been dancing in Seattle than I had over the 3+ years that I danced in Denver. So that reinforces my belief that larger scenes make for ruder behavior.

:shock: :shock: What...?! :cry: I loved Seattle scene when I last visited....

*I wonder if Melbourne scene is also perceived that way :? , as I've been told the size (amongst other things) is similar to Seattle......*

[youngsta]

The Denver scene is a small, friendly scene. Don't get me wrong we have our distinct groups that form around the area instructors, but all in all they're very coordial with each other. It's really great for me since I didn't begin here; I dance very different from most of those that learned here in Denver so they're all very friendly with me. What I love about the salsa community (for the most part) is when I'm traveling and show up at a new club...once they find out I'm a serious salsero they kinda take me in.

[cocodrilo]

Jet crashing noises, Tj! You're hilarious!!!
I agree with what you said as well. Although, over here in our almost non-existent salsa scene, you get profound cliques, A sleeping with B, gossip & daggers, the whole shabang. I try not to get too deeply involved as I have better things to do with my time, but after the salsa parties I produce with my buddy(my former instructor), we get a group of people and go out for food/drinks and it's a lot of fun for all involved. I have frequent dinner parties and occasionally include them, and they are always cordial and talkative (and we all always end up dancing in my livingroom!!!).

Interesting topic, indeed!

[MacMoto]

I haven't been dancing salsa very long, but I think on the whole the Scottish scene is a friendly one, partly because of its small size and also the Scots being friendly folk. Cliquey behaviours, bitching and instructor rivalry do seem to exist, but not to the extent that affects the vibes of the entire scene.

One thing I've found is that Edinburgh and Glasgow are almost like two separate scenes. There are people who go to both, but many people seem to stick to one or the other. I started out in Edinburgh, and when I started going to Glasgow, I felt like a complete stranger. It took me a while to get acquainted with enough people there to feel comfortable, but once people knew my face, it was fine.

[squirrel]

the Salsa scene in my city is small... and segregated! about 5 cliques... one for each school... they tend to go out together... outsiders are accepted, but up to a certain degree...
yes cocodrilo, I know what you mean... it seems I've slept with half the dancers in the disco and I shall with the other half! :shock: :shock: Yes, that's what I heard about myself! I'm sleeping with a guy just because we come together or leave together... I wish I had as much experience as they give me credit for! :roll: :oops: :P

[tj]

I've seen more rudeness in the 9 months I've been dancing in Seattle than I had over the 3+ years that I danced in Denver. So that reinforces my belief that larger scenes make for ruder behavior.

:shock: :shock: What...?! :cry: I loved Seattle scene when I last visited....

*I wonder if Melbourne scene is also perceived that way :? , as I've been told the size (amongst other things) is similar to Seattle......*

One person's rudeness is another's "just being themselves"...

It's all relative, but "general dance etiquette" isn't being followed a large amount of the time. And it's individualized. I've known and seen people who come visit and have a grand ol' time. And I've known and seen people who have fun in their local scene but not have fun in the Seattle scene.

Perhaps to generalize and say a scene is "X" is going too far. I think it varies a lot by individual perspectives. So if a friend of mine says that his experience was good/bad, I'm not going to argue and tell him he's wrong. His own experience is as valid as the rest of ours.

[volleybgrl]

I like the turn that this topic has taken. :D What are other salsa communities like?

[tj]

I like the turn that this topic has taken. :D What are other salsa communities like?

In my experience:

Hong Kong was exceptionally friendly.

Barcelona and Madrid medium friendly. Bit of a language problem since my Spanish sucks.

London - big club: not so friendly, small class/club: friendly

Vancouver - mostly friendly, nice scene

Portland - mostly friendly, picked a bit of an off weekend

Waikiki (Honolulu) - a bit stand-offish at first; warmed up quickly

NYC - mixed results; quite a few friendly, but hardly everyone

oh, and L.A. was friendlier than NYC

[borikensalsero]

oh, and L.A. was friendlier than NYC

now way, we are so friendly here. Just ask for the time to anyone, they'll tell you to get a watch. Ask for directions you'll end up in the South Bronx. Walk in behind someone, the door will smack you on the face. If you hold the door open for the person behind you, you'll be beautifuly ignored. Ask for a dance, they'll look at you up and down for 3 songs before saying NO. hehe... NY City is the friendliest place on earth. :together:

[tj]

oh, and L.A. was friendlier than NYC

now way, we are so friendly here. Just ask for the time to anyone, they'll tell you to get a watch. Ask for directions you'll end up in the South Bronx. Walk in behind someone, the door will smack you on the face. If you hold the door open for the person behind you, you'll be beautifuly ignored. Ask for a dance, they'll look at you up and down for 3 songs before saying NO. hehe... NY City is the friendliest place on earth. :together:

:wink:

Actually, in my experience growing up in NJ, people from the Tri-State area tend to be outwardly rude to each other, but as soon as they get to know you, you get welcomed with open arms. Meanwhile, out west, people tend to be more outwardly polite, but less likely to let you into their lives/social circles.

IMHO, of course.

[aragonh]

I've seen more rudeness in the 9 months I've been dancing in Seattle than I had over the 3+ years that I danced in Denver. So that reinforces my belief that larger scenes make for ruder behavior.

I visited Seattle last year and I thought that scene was the bomb. I come from a "bigger city" but it has a small salsa scene compared to Seattle.

The people were also friendly there. I went to this club called "Century Ballroom" (i think) and the people were all cool there. I danced will all that would say yes to me. The ones that said no . . .well . . .i think they were having lesbian moments (it couldnt be me, of course :wink: )

But a vast majority said yes. Yeah I saw the cliques hanging with each other, but that didnt intimidate me. The ladies are more receptive to your dance offer if you look like your having fun out on the floor.

The same general thing happened the other 2 nights i went out. I say it has something to do with the water, but the people were just cool.

Sorry TJ about your experiences, but Seattle is definitely a Salsa scene i recommend to check out.

[cocodrilo]

Aragonh-
That's hilarious, "...having lesbian moments"!!!!! :lol:

[aragonh]

Aragonh-
That's hilarious, "...having lesbian moments"!!!!! :lol:

Of Course Cocodrilo. You see, most ladies dont just flat out say no to you. They care about our fragile egos, and make up every excuse in the book on y they cant dance with you.

So I beat them to the punch line and I tell them "I understand, your having one of those moments!"

Of the ones that ask what Im referring to, i explain it to them and then they either Laugh or give me the Evil Eye.

Either way, I made an impression on them! :D

[tj]

Sorry TJ about your experiences, but Seattle is definitely a Salsa scene i recommend to check out.

No worries, I stand by what I said earlier in this thread.

[rails]

I've found San Francisco to be a friendly scene. As a leader most of the people I've met are women, but the guys I've gotten to know seem perfectly nice. I hardly ever get turned down which I think says something about the followers here considering that I'm not particularly good and it's a lead-heavy city. Of course, I may be sub-consciously asking only women with open body language.

However, I've heard from Lindy Hop followers that have tried Salsa that they didn't like it because they got groped, over-spun and/or just didn't find it as friendly as the swing scene. Myself, I've had more rude experiences with Lindy Hop followers than with Salsa followers.

I'd be curious to know what others think of San Francisco.

[youngsta]

Rails my first time out in SF and the south bay area was rough. I couldn't buy a dance at all! Finally once I danced with a friend that arrived later all was good and the followers were great. I really like the size of the scene there, it's large without being overwhelming.

[capricorndancer]

Hey there,
Back on line, me. Been to many cities over the years, most recently returned to Melbourne (Hi Salsachinita). As a very experienced dancer, my experiences will certainly be through that perticular filter, but, here are a couple of things I've observed:

1) in ANY dance scene, it is FAR easier to find dance parters after you've been seen dancing there with someone who already knows you. So, gents, take your favourite lady along to a new venue, and you'll be set.

2) When the going gets tough, dance with less experienced dancers - they are always happy to be entertained, and less likely to be biatches (with attendant plane crash experiences :-))

3) There are definitely city-specific modifiers to the ease with which one finds a dance: New York has been the hardest in my experience, but I don't pose like they do there (though maybe I was too early for the decent dancers. Maybe next time you can introduce me, Boriken?).

Anyway, in my experience, here are the cities:

London, UK: Salsa on Sunday was fine, but I started off by doing a rip-roaring Salsa with Candice, who is one of the International Artists whop erformed at the paris Congress, where I'd made mroe social contact with her parter, Laith . . .) The other places I went were not so great, but the level of dancing skill was generally low, so I got to dance with the B-class dancers.

Paris, France: Generally good, though I didn't dance with the A-grade much, and they appeared pretty cliquey. I danced with plenty of B-class dancers there, too, so I guess not so easy to break in as an unaccompanied male.

Toronto, Canada: great scene, whether I was there accompanied or not (I've been there a half-dozen times or so). Most similar to Melbourne and Seattle that I have experienced, and is generally warm and friendly, though the Salsa style there is very cool and dispassionate.

Seattle, WA: great scene, I think independent of being introduced to the scene by a friend there; I got my best dances from women to whom I wasn't introduced. Seemed very open and friendly; I was only in town for the weekend (tho I'll be back, so I'll look for you Volleybgrl ;-)), but walked away with several e-mail contacts.

Detroit, MI: can't sensibly comment; I've been here for years, but it was a hard scene to break into at the start, and I think it would have been harder if I'd not been approached to dance in a local comp by one of the Salsa Queens of the scene.

Los Angeles: easy to get into, but I had company to display my skills.

San Diego: Company was too exculsive (nice way of saying jealous) to allow me to explore the scene . . . :-)

Edinburgh, Scotland: Easy scene, but there was no male there with my experience and skill, that I saw, so the women almost lined up . . .

Sydney, Australia: got along easily enough, though I met a group of ladies returning to the scene for a weekend, after which I didn't look further. Was active enough, but I don't think it looked to be highly approachable.

Melbourne, Australia: simply the best I've seen, I think. I miss the people there a lot . . . and though I was introduced about some at the start (thanks Salsachinita), I also made my own way thereafter, and the folks there took good care of one of their own. :-)

I'm looking forwards to Vancouver; I met a few decent guys from there while I was in Seattle . . .

See y'all out on the floor.

CD

[tj]

Seattle, WA: great scene, I think independent of being introduced to the scene by a friend there; I got my best dances from women to whom I wasn't introduced. Seemed very open and friendly; I was only in town for the weekend (tho I'll be back, so I'll look for you Volleybgrl ;-)), but walked away with several e-mail contacts.

I'm looking forwards to Vancouver; I met a few decent guys from there while I was in Seattle . . .


Err - Vbygrl is in Boston, isn't she? I think the locals to Seattle on DF would be me, mellody43 (Melissa), and Salsageek, who's in Spokane.

Anyway, it'll be good to meet you when you come to Seattle - and feel free to PM me when you arrive.

[mellody43]

Err - Vbygrl is in Boston, isn't she? I think the locals to Seattle on DF would be me, mellody43 (Melissa), and Salsageek, who's in Spokane.

Anyway, it'll be good to meet you when you come to Seattle - and feel free to PM me when you arrive.

=)

Isn't there someone on the boards who is moving here soon?

Melissa

[borikensalsero]

Err - Vbygrl is in Boston, isn't she? I think the locals to Seattle on DF would be me, mellody43 (Melissa), and Salsageek, who's in Spokane.

Anyway, it'll be good to meet you when you come to Seattle - and feel free to PM me when you arrive.

=)

Isn't there someone on the boards who is moving here soon?

Melissa

CapirconDancer I believe.

Yes CapriconDancer, when you come down to NY City again let me know. I'll bring you around. Do you dance on2? Most ladies will decline an offer from an on1 dancer. :headwall:

[SDsalsaguy]

Most ladies will decline an offer from an on1 dancer. :headwall:
Sorry boriken... +1 reason to avoid NY :(

[Pacion]

Most ladies will decline an offer from an on1 dancer. :headwall:
Sorry boriken... +1 reason to avoid NY :(

:lol: I am feeling almost tempted to do a thread on "Top reasons why I should avoid NY" :roll: or maybe I should just hijack this one :twisted: :lol:

#2 reason for avoiding NY would be that SD won't be there :shock: :wink:

Disclaimer: I am only messing about and I would not miss NY for the world! :banana: As the song goes:

Start spreading the news
I'm leaving today
I want to be a part of it, New York, New York

These vagabond shoes
Are longing to stray
And make a brand new start of it
New York, New York
I want to wake up in the city that never sleeps
To find I'm king of the hill, top of the heap
These little town blues
Are melting away
I'll make a brand new start of it
In old New York
If I can make it there
I'll make it anywhere
It's up to you, New York, New York.

I want to wake up in the city that never sleeps
To find I'm king of the hill, top of the heap
These little town blues
Are melting away
I'll make a brand new start of it
In old New York
If I can make it there
I'll make it anywhere
It's up to you, New York, New York :!: :car:


:banana: :banana: :banana:

[borikensalsero]

Most ladies will decline an offer from an on1 dancer. :headwall:
Sorry boriken... +1 reason to avoid NY :(

Yeap, If on2 dancers weren't such a pain in the butts about on1 and on2 it wouldn't be a bad thing, but as many on2 fools make their ego feel better, if you dance on1 you can't dance. :shock: The first time I heard it I couldn't dance, but after I learned, it really got annoying.

Seriously, some of these people really think as if they were in a cult and couldn't associate with anyone else. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Can I start shooting now?

[capricorndancer]

Err - Vbygrl is in Boston, isn't she? I think the locals to Seattle on DF would be me, mellody43 (Melissa), and Salsageek, who's in Spokane.

Anyway, it'll be good to meet you when you come to Seattle - and feel free to PM me when you arrive.

Thanks tj. I must have got confused there, and yes, I am the one who will be in Seattle sometime in the Fall, INS-willing,and expect to stay for a couple of years.

I'll keep you posted.

CD

[capricorndancer]

Yes CapriconDancer, when you come down to NY City again let me know. I'll bring you around. Do you dance on2? Most ladies will decline an offer from an on1 dancer. :headwall:

I dance on both, though better on1 than 2 - there is more of it (on2) over here in Detroit than there used to be, but the local DJ doesn't play so much that sounds like good on2 to me. The Detroit scene is maturing, too, (to reprise the original theme of this thread) so there is more of a social group than when I started. But maybe it's just me . . .

Anyway, thanks for the offer to introduce me around. I'll be in touch, as once I get to Seattle, I hope to make a couple of trips a year to NY for work (and to play, of course . . .).

CD

[Pacion]

CD, I think he is in Detroit. Keep your eyes open for a guy called Gordon Neil. He is good! I believe he also teaches.

[tj]

Err - Vbygrl is in Boston, isn't she? I think the locals to Seattle on DF would be me, mellody43 (Melissa), and Salsageek, who's in Spokane.

Anyway, it'll be good to meet you when you come to Seattle - and feel free to PM me when you arrive.

Thanks tj. I must have got confused there, and yes, I am the one who will be in Seattle sometime in the Fall, INS-willing,and expect to stay for a couple of years.

I'll keep you posted.

CD

Looking forward to it. It's nice when an experienced dancer comes in from out of town as s/he'll often bring unique new style and moves.

[capricorndancer]

CD, I think he is in Detroit. Keep your eyes open for a guy called Gordon Neil. He is good! I believe he also teaches.

Umm. I'm in Detroit; sorry - haven't changed my address on the Forum - but I do know Gordon somewhat, and last I heard, from someone who is thinking of going to dance with him, he is in Atlanta (tho my memory could be foolin with me). He was in The D for about a year, but returned to Atlanta mid 03, I think.

CD

[Pacion]

Just googled him :lol: and yes, all signs seem to be pointing to Atlanta.

[capricorndancer]

Looking forward to it. It's nice when an experienced dancer comes in from out of town as s/he'll often bring unique new style and moves.

Yeah, having a unique style is something of which I've oft been accused. In my defense, I have seen a few guys around who seem to have similar sets of moves to me, at least . . .

See you in Seattle

CD

[rails]

Rails my first time out in SF and the south bay area was rough. I couldn't buy a dance at all! Finally once I danced with a friend that arrived later all was good and the followers were great.

Wait a minute. Aren't you the guy who said you had to stay way back from the dance floor to avoid getting asked to dance? Hmm. Yes, you are. I just found the post I was looking for:

Nope. Even when I'm in LA it's that way. If I need a break I have to get WAAYYYYYYYY far from the dance floor!! Laughing

I guess I don't know from friendly. The women in LA and Colorado must be REALLY nice. I'll have to try things outside of SF some day. Then again, I've never been out dancing in the South Bay. Where'd you go? Agenda? Alberto's? Dance Spectrum?

[SDsalsaguy]

#2 reason for avoiding NY would be that SD won't be there :shock: :wink:
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

[youngsta]

Wait a minute. Aren't you the guy who said you had to stay way back from the dance floor to avoid getting asked to dance? Hmm. Yes, you are. I just found the post I was looking for:

That first time was at Agenda. I've loved the scene since then, just that first night that was rough.

Do you dance on2? Most ladies will decline an offer from an on1 dancer. :headwall:
Exactly the reason I learned to dance on2.

[borikensalsero]

Hey, you guys think you have it tough. I can't dance on1 at all. I can attmept to stay in but when I get going, ooops, I'm on2....

Try having the rest of the world dancing on1 while I do on2. Not that it matters, I dance with just about anybody that has a heart beat.

The other day I was teaching a newbie how to shake it, and I put her on the spot light. I let go of her, did a couple shines and finsihed with hop on the ta ta of the 4, rolled my upper body for 5, 6, 7, pointed at her twice on the 8 and one the one said, your turn to show me watcha got. She looked at me in disbelief, eyes popped opened, and said I don't know anything, and screamed, AHHHHHHHH, HELP HELP, please help me. I carcked up, luckly so did she, and we took off on a basic again. LOL, now, I don't know why I just said that, but who'll be willing to dance with an on2 fellow outside the little cricles here and there :cry: :cry: Not fair, SD, when are you gonna teach me on1? I want to use a purple hat too. :tongue:

[danceguy]

Rails - You could always try going North...our scene is very small here but you probably would have a good time. Especially if you dance in SF a lot...you could come to a much smaller venue and impress the ladies no problem! ;)

And then you could see that I really can't dance! Heh. :oops: :D

I've been talking with some other folks about going back to SF one of these days...but I'm still a bit gunshy after the last time. :shock:

SG

[salsachinita]

SD, when are you gonna teach me on1? I want to use a purple hat too. :tongue:

:lol: :lol: :lol: This can definitely make its way to my 'Dance Fairytale Game'!

http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2727

Would anyone here like to add anything :wink: .....? (feel free to dob in any DF characters as you wish :twisted: )

[SDsalsaguy]

SD, when are you gonna teach me on1? I want to use a purple hat too. :tongue:
Any time you want bro... my door's open. Seriously.


...although G-d knows that your on1 has to be better than my on2! :shock: :oops: :lol:

[rails]

Where's here? Santa Rosa or something? Oh yeah, I could do the big fish in a small pond thing like capricorndancer was talking about for Edinburgh. Actually, like I said, I'm not that good so I don't think I'd be a big fish anywhere.

The on 1 vs. on 2 deal is interesting. I've noticed here that a lot (maybe most?) of the advanced dancers prefer to dance on 2. Ava taught me how to do the on 2 basic. Unfortunately, the on 2 group class they had at the Metronome got cancelled. I think it was because it started at 9pm so attendance was low. I guess I won't try New York until I get some kind of grip on that.

Rails - You could always try going North...our scene is very small here but you probably would have a good time. Especially if you dance in SF a lot...you could come to a much smaller venue and impress the ladies no problem! ;)

And then you could see that I really can't dance! Heh. :oops: :D

I've been talking with some other folks about going back to SF one of these days...but I'm still a bit gunshy after the last time. :shock:

SG

[danceguy]

Yup, that's where here is. We only have one main Salsa venue on Sunday nights...probably wouldn't be worth your while to come. If you ever make it up this way PM me and I can give you more information.

I'm sure you are better than you think...my first (and only) dance trip to SF left me like a deer in headlights...I just stood there and watched mostly.

I'm thinking of taking a trip to Cocomo's one of these days...I went there for a workshop once but never just to dance...hopefully its a little less crazy than the Roccapulco. :wink:

SG

[rails]

I'm thinking of taking a trip to Cocomo's one of these days...I went there for a workshop once but never just to dance...hopefully its a little less crazy than the Roccapulco. :wink:

It's crazier, especially as you get closer to midnight and the loungers at the bar start multiplying and creeping over the dance floor. The way it's laid out leads to that. Not a problem at Roccapulco.

If you're looking for a non-intimidating environment, I'd recommend Maiko in Berkeley on Saturday nights. Smallish place, but with a live band most Saturdays. I've been there 4 times, I think. In my experience it doesn't get too crowded and has a mostly beginner to intermediate crowd. I had one of my breakthrough nights there as I got over the "complete beginner hump." And I've never been turned down there. I've actually been asked to dance at Maiko which is a rare occurence.

[danceguy]

Ah, thank you for the info rails. Maiko - I will have to check that place out...is it hard to find parking? I don't dance on2 so hopefully its more of an on1 crowd...

I'm working very hard to get over my "complete beginner hump" as well...and I'm starting to outgrow the scene in my area, so its time to expand out to get more exposure. Plus, dancing only one night a week sucks to say the least. :x :? ;)

Hmm, if ladies are asking guys to dance it sounds like a good place to go. 8)

Best,

SG

[dragon3085]

I like the turn that this topic has taken. :D What are other salsa communities like?

San Antonio is a very friendly and accepting scene. Austin is a little more clique based but not so much as to be a problem. The Houston scene however can be very snooty, if you don't know the right people. In Phoenix where I have also been know to frequent the scene near the university is very relaxed and friendly as well. In my experience in travels, the salsa club attitude tend to be similar to the city attitudes irregardless of size.

Patrick

[Pacion]

SD, when are you gonna teach me on1? I want to use a purple hat too. :tongue:
Any time you want bro... my door's open. Seriously.


...although G-d knows that your on1 has to be better than my on2! :shock: :oops: :lol:

:roll: Is that with or without the purple hat on :roll: :twisted:

[SDsalsaguy]

:doh:

[Pacion]

:kitty: <= do you like me more now :wink:

[SDsalsaguy]

:headwall:

[Pacion]

:headwall:

doesn't it hurt when you do that? :roll: :roll: :roll:





rotflmbo :lol:

[tj]

rotflmbo :lol:

Well that solves the "inappropriate touching" now, doesn't it!

[danceguy]

Now now ladies, please give ol' SD a break, because I'm the one that will be doing the purple hat jokes around here! :lol: :twisted: ;)

Besides, you're getting off topic...so I'll get us back on here.

Dragon - I've been through Phoenix several times in the last year but I've never had time to go dancing...but next time I go I do want to check out a few clubs. I enjoy the scene in my area but I'm starting to realize just how limited it is.

SG

[Pacion]

Now now ladies, please give ol' SD a break,

Are we talking the Diet Coke break here? :lol:


Does anyone remember seeing an advert for Diet Coke were all the ladies in the office :D take a break at 11am, just as the window washer guy goes past, topless :shock: :lol: or maybe he was a "construction worker" :roll: :twisted:

[salsachinita]

:wink: Tell us about the London scene, Pacion...!

*while we take a break to gaze at the window cleaner :lol: !*

[SDsalsaguy]

*while we take a break to gaze at the window cleaner :lol: !*
You really think Windex is that interesting salsachinita? :shock: :tongue:

[salsachinita]

*while we take a break to gaze at the window cleaner :lol: !*
You really think Windex is that interesting salsachinita? :shock: :tongue:

:nope: SD....!

[danceguy]

It someone is cleaning their windows while grooving to Salsa music...sure it is! ;)

SG

[salsachinita]

:doh: I've got the mental picture now: full-blast salsa music playing, while a row of Windex bottles grooving to it while cleaning my windows :lol: !

Like this-----> :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[borikensalsero]

Last night I was out dancing the night away, the place was packed, I mean packed!!! Unlike other thursday nights, the place was full of NY City big dawgs, however, they were flying solo, which means their support groups weren't around. Lo and behold, the cliquiness wasn't there as it usually is when these dancers go out. I was so surprised to, 1- see them all out without their pack, 2- that even when they knew each other and hung out with each other, they were being very very friendly towards everyone else. they didn't keep to themselves, nor turn down dances from the newbies. Now, there is a shocker. It was so pleasing to see this particular venue packed with some of the "best" dancers NY City has to offer, but it was best to see how friendly these individuals are... Now, why can't the same happen when they travel in packs?

[volleybgrl]

... the place was full of NY City big dawgs, [but] they didn't keep to themselves, nor turn down dances from the newbies.

Sounds awesome! I know the scene over here in Boston is small, and not that I'm a "big dawg" by any means, but I either have to be completely winded or leaving in order to turn a dance down. And, of the "big dawgs" I talk to, they hardly ever turn dances down from newbies. Granted I only talk to a few, but I think that the attitude is across the board. They seem to know that "we all start somewhere"...I see them dancing with at least one newbie every time I go out. :)

:banana: I love Boston :banana:

[salsachinita]

Now, why can't the same happen when they travel in packs?

I guess somehow the packs become 'self-sufficient' with both male & female pack members present.......therefore there is no physical need to interact with other groups.......?

I've noticed the same dynamics in my local scene as well.

With only the male members present, they have no choice but to dance with the available females there (or end up watching/drinking at the bar). They also have to make an effort to be friendly/civil, as we do to people we don't know that well (but interested in making contact with).

On the other hand, when there are only the females present, they generally stay within a little group until someone ask them to dance. Eventhough the askers are NOT the usual partners (from the same pack) they dance with, they are more inclined to accept the dance (either that or sit out most songs).

If the pack present has one male & the rest female, the girls are most likely to all 'share' this guy instead of 'dancing out of the pack'.

If the reverse happens, all the guys will do their best to dance with that ONE girl from the pack, while still keeping their options open somewhat.

Of course, the abovementioned dynamics is only true if (1) it is indeed your typical garden variety clique (2) everyone in that situation are sharing the same enthusiasm to get their fix (3) they've reached a certain proficiency level in the first place to dance reasonably well with most dancers in the scene.

For that reason you won't find me in any pack situations. I hunt alone 8) .

:P

[volleybgrl]

I guess somehow the packs become 'self-sufficient' with both male & female pack members present.......therefore there is no physical need to interact with other groups.......?


Awesome observations girlie!

[salsachinita]

:oops: :oops: Glad you like it........ :D

[squirrel]

Oh, Salsachinita... I know too well what you're saying... why dance out of your pack? They prefer to witch and moan that they don't dance enough, instead of inviting someone available... from another pack! This is so... annoying!

[aragonh]

I was in St. Louis this weekend and went to a club called Club 7.

The place was cool and the dancers were friendly. Not as great as other cities I've been to but still it was a nice place.


2 more days til Congress!!!!

I've been at the gym and doing nothing but building up my endurance!!
4 days of non-stop dancing, here I come!!

[DiAnAoN1]

Honestly here in Orlando florida the salsa scene is extemely cliquey (sp?) everytime you go out salsa dancing you expect to see that group of extremely good dancers together and they will only dance and hang out with each other looking down on the less experience dancers, they dont even make an effort to socialize with other people. It's sad really because not just salsa but music in general is supposed to bring people together but sometimes people just ruin that by being stuck up, it really does remind me of high school sometimes but oh well what can you do I luv dancing to salsa too much so I'll just ignore it, but there are times when you come across the really good hearted people and thats what makes it all worth while :D

[peachexploration]

Honestly here in Orlando florida the salsa scene is extemely cliquey (sp?) everytime you go out salsa dancing you expect to see that group of extremely good dancers together and they will only dance and hang out with each other looking down on the less experience dancers, they dont even make an effort to socialize with other people. It's sad really because not just salsa but music in general is supposed to bring people together but sometimes people just ruin that by being stuck up, it really does remind me of high school sometimes but oh well what can you do I luv dancing to salsa too much so I'll just ignore it, but there are times when you come across the really good hearted people and thats what makes it all worth while :D

Very true, DiAnAoN1. Very true. :)

[salsachinita]

There seem to be a whole bunch of DF members out there in Orlando. How big is the scene...? Have you guys met.....?

Just curious 8) ........

[tj]

Just wanted to give some props to the Vancouver salsa scene, and thought this would be an appropriate thread:

Jeez, I really like dancing up there! Even when you get turned down, the ladies will come find you later. I was dancing there last night, and about 4 out of the 5 ladies who didn't want to dance, came and found me later.

Very nice touch. I love dancing with enthusiastic appreciative partners!

[SDsalsaguy]

Sounds great tj, thanks for the report! :D

[squirrel]

nice experience, tj... I just wish there were more of these people...

[tj]

About people being nice to each other...

What do the rest of you think - do you think it's a regional thing?

For me personally, it seems to be the smaller the scene, the friendlier the dancers...

[salsera_alemana]

About people being nice to each other...

What do the rest of you think - do you think it's a regional thing?

For me personally, it seems to be the smaller the scene, the friendlier the dancers...

I think you're right! I think it is a matter of the size of the scene. (Attention: This is going to be a rather LONG message!)

When salsa started to become popular in Germany, the scene was small and people felt like one big family. They were friendly to each other, couldn't wait from Sunday to next Friday to all see each other again and have fun dancing together. They all danced with (not against) each other. They all had so much fun. That was at the beginning of the 90s.

The bigger the scene became, the more competition came up. At the beginning only a few Latins taught salsa. But then all of a sudden a lot of people started to teach, no matter if they were good or bad dancers, and there were tons of salsa teachers everywhere, all claiming that they were the best in town. The more teachers there were, the more competition. And the more competition, the more envy and badmouthing and gossip. As long as you stay out of it, you still have fun.

Then people started going to salsa congresses, first to Puerto Rico, now we have more salsa congresses in Germany than one can afford to go to. People slowly started to learn shines, styling etc. Still, there are not many people here dancing on 2, most do their shines on 1. But all these new things have taken competition among dancers to a new level. In Germany now you see a lot of cliques and competition in the salsa scene. In the smaller cities it is different, people are still friendly and dancing WITH each other, they are not as stuck up as for example in Frankfurt, Stuttgart or Munich.

So I classify the salsa here in "the good old days" :D and "nowadays".

Here my experience with the different places, if my experience dates back a couple of years, I also state the year, the scene has been booming everywhere lately and was smaller then:

Germany:
Kaiserslautern + Ramstein (where we live now): small salsa scene, people friendly, "normal" and not stuck up, 2 real good DJs, mixed German and Puerto Rican crowd. People in this area (Pfalz) in general are very social, outgoing and friendly, it might have to do with the regional mentality.

Frankfurt: Big salsa scene, very competitive, very cliquy.

Darmstadt (near Frankfurt): Although people from Frankfurt go there, people in "El Caribe" are friendlier than in Frankfurt. "El Caribe" is one of the few salsa clubs left from the "good old days", I went there already in 1992 and it is still operating.

Stuttgart: Big salsa scene. very competitive. Music mostly Cuban now, was mostly Puerto Rican in "the good old days".

Saarbrücken (at the French border): Smaller salsa scene, some very nice fiestas, mostly friendly people, not as competitive.

Netherlands (1996-99):
Big salsa scene in this small country, almost every guy who ever had taken a beginner's class was a teacher, very competitive (the guys). People there are very outgoing, open and friendly, it was very easy for us to make friends. I hear from our Dutch friends that it has become much more competitive now, normal development.

Rome/Italy (1998): Due to lack of car we visited only the clubs in the city, however, the clubs where the star dancers went were outside Rome. In the clubs we visited, people were friendly and approachable.

Bucharest/Romania (my latest experience, May 04): Small salsa scene, good dancers (I was really surprised), nice people. Thanks to Raluca and Dragos (both members of DF) we met a lot of people. From what Raluca says, it starts being competitive.

Puerto Rico:
My favorite scene: great dancers, good music, great concerts, people are polite and friendly in the clubs. They enjoy seeing foreigners dance to their music and sometimes they come up to you and compliment you on your dancing. The women have no problem whatsoever with non-Latin women dancing salsa and being with a Latino dancer (see my Miami experience in comparison).

USA
Kansas City: Small scene, is developing. Friendly people, who enjoy dancing with each other, not very competitive (at least not 2 years ago when we left).

Houston (my experience dates back to 1996): Was then very Mexican, hardly any good dancers, people not very friendly towards others they did not know.

Orlando (2002): I liked the clubs in Orlando, especially the Roxy and the Metropolis (?) on Sunday. Good dancers, good music! When you go out as a couple, it is harder to tell if people are approachable or not because you do not depend on them asking you to dance. I do not remember the scene as particularly approachable.

Miami (1995): My personal experience was that many of the Cuban women had a problem with me as a "gringa" being there with a Latino dancer (my husband). They acted hostile and aggressive towards me, one spilled a glass of red vine over my skirt on purpose (we watched her "preparing" for it). Other women I talked to felt the same way. I did enjoy seeing the good dancers there, though. I saw the best rueda de casino there!

NY: When I went out there without my husband, only with my girlfriend (1996), people still danced on1 (I only dance on1) and the guys asked me to dance (Latin Quarter). I did not find them "unapproachable". According to Boriquen's description, now nobody would ask me to dance anymore :cry:

This posting has become too long ... STOP for now!

[Sagitta]

Wow. Thanks salsa alemana! I agree that the smaller scenes would be friendlier. For that I'm happy about my dance scene. :D

[squirrel]

Salsera-alemana, you are nice as usual... I'm glad you enjoyed our small scene from Bucharest, Romania... Dragos and I certainly hope to see you again some time soon!
Yes, the people here are very competitive (if you saw them you'd say they're competing for the World Championship! or for preserving their lives :lol: )... It is very bad and I have come to hate the dance scene... Luckily, I have a dance partner and some close friends, also dancers... and a great Puerto Rican dancer!
The only other Salsa scene I know is Paris, France... I went to 2 Salsa clubs... Latina Cafe (?) on the Champs-Elysees = very expensive and not very populated, but great music; La Pachanga = great persons, very friendly and nice, good dancers, mostly Cuban style... :)

[Sabor]

Puerto Rico:
My favorite scene: great dancers, good music, great concerts, people are polite and friendly in the clubs. They enjoy seeing foreigners dance to their music and sometimes they come up to you and compliment you on your dancing. The women have no problem whatsoever with non-Latin women dancing salsa and being with a Latino dancer (see my Miami experience in comparison).

[singing] Puerto Rico.. where i belong there in your arms.. Puerto Rico.. baila bailaaa [singing]

gotta luv those people.. especially the mamacitas! 8) WOWZA!

[borikensalsero]

Speaking of women dancing in PR... Ooops, I might just be changing topics...

As a group I've never seen salseras dance as sexy as those Rican salseras.. They are just so darn sensual when they dance. Very not NY/LA, they are just awesome to dance with...

A lot of them feel like a soft blanket just out of the dryer, cuddly, soft, smooth, touching them causes a gentle hand to become heavenly... they are just so "femenine". Here in NY I've danced with 3 girls who have felt like that since I started dancing. In PR, just about all of them feel so. Granted, in skill they are years behind, but in sensuality, and smoothness, I've got to give them props...

I wanna go back to Havana (Small salsa club in Santurce Puerto Rico) - Not what it used to be years back.

[MacMoto]

This posting has become too long ... STOP for now!
No, no, I want to hear more please! It's great to learn about salsa scenes outside my little (albeit friendly) pond. You are so well travelled, Salsera_alemana. :notworth: :notworth: :notworth: That's what I wanna do -- a salsa trip around the world!

[Sabor]

As a group I've never seen salseras dance as sexy as those Rican salseras.. They are just so darn sensual when they dance. Very not NY/LA, they are just awesome to dance with...

A lot of them feel like a soft blanket just out of the dryer, cuddly, soft, smooth, touching them causes a gentle hand to become heavenly... they are just so "femenine".

EXACTLY!!! :D :D :D .. unfortunately i only ever danced but with one Ricana who happened to be visiting Egypt.. most of my dancing (aside from the locals) were with cubanas and Eurpopeans in general.. and one day out of the blue this Ricana ask me to dance :shock: .. imagine that heavenly creature asking grumpy old me to dance!!! well i did.. and she just left me holding my chest with both hands to keep it from popping out of my chest from passion overdose! :shock: ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch!!! etc.. etc. etc.. :lol:

[Pacion]

imagine that heavenly creature asking grumpy old me to dance!!!

Yes, imagine that! :shock: :twisted: :lol:


Hi Sabor :D

[borikensalsero]

As a group I've never seen salseras dance as sexy as those Rican salseras.. They are just so darn sensual when they dance. Very not NY/LA, they are just awesome to dance with...

A lot of them feel like a soft blanket just out of the dryer, cuddly, soft, smooth, touching them causes a gentle hand to become heavenly... they are just so "femenine".

EXACTLY!!! :D :D :D .. unfortunately i only ever danced but with one Ricana who happened to be visiting Egypt.. most of my dancing (aside from the locals) were with cubanas and Eurpopeans in general.. and one day out of the blue this Ricana ask me to dance :shock: .. imagine that heavenly creature asking grumpy old me to dance!!! well i did.. and she just left me holding my chest with both hands to keep it from popping out of my chest from passion overdose! :shock: ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch!!! etc.. etc. etc.. :lol:

OUCH!!!

[Sabor]

Yes, imagine that!

umm.. but i get asked to dance all the time mon cherie :wink: .. wouldn't u ask me if it were u? :mrgreen:

[Pacion]

Yes, imagine that!

umm.. but i get asked to dance all the time mon cherie :wink: .. wouldn't u ask me if it were u? :mrgreen:

:nope: only if you were to welcome me with a long stemmed red rose between your teeth :lol:

EXACTLY!!! :D :D :D .. unfortunately i only ever danced but with one Ricana who happened to be visiting Egypt.. most of my dancing (aside from the locals) were with cubanas and Eurpopeans in general.. and one day out of the blue this Ricana ask me to dance :shock: .. imagine that heavenly creature asking grumpy old me to dance!!! well i did.. and she just left me holding my chest with both hands to keep it from popping out of my chest from passion overdose! :shock: ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch!!! etc.. etc. etc.. :lol:

OUCH!!!

Before Enquiring minds ask, it wasn't me :wink: :lol:

[salsera_alemana]

Boriquen,

Speaking of women dancing in PR... Ooops, I might just be changing topics...

As a group I've never seen salseras dance as sexy as those Rican salseras.. They are just so darn sensual when they dance. Very not NY/LA, they are just awesome to dance with...

In PR, just about all of them feel so... Granted, in skill they are years behind, but in sensuality, and smoothness, I've got to give them props...

I wanna go back to Havana (Small salsa club in Santurce Puerto Rico) - Not what it used to be years back.

I totally agree with you, although I see it from a woman's perspective. Puerto Rican female dancers have always been my ideal. That is how I would like to be able to move one day dancing salsa!!!!!! Yes, yes, yes!!!! Not LAish, not NYish sino como una boricua!!! :banana: :bouncy: :banana:

They are very sensual, sexy, feminine, and always with elegance and style!!! Never look trashy or vulgar.

As a WOMAN I have to sing my praises to the Puerto Rican MALE dancers! They have always been my favorite dancers! I just love the way they move, their sabor and their elegance! I love to just watch them dance, but of course I even more love dancing with them. Especially nowadays where I see so many wild dancers, jumping and kicking and spinning and you name it. There are so few Puerto Rican dancers in Germany now. We used to have so many in the "good old days". Thanks God I can call one of them my own :D .

The Havana is a lot more casual than the clubs in San Juan used to be, even in Puerto Rico people go out in jeans now. Have you been at the salsa club in el Caribe Hilton when it still existed? Everybody was dressed up, the women in very elegant and sexy dresses! I just looove to go to those special dances in PR with 4 salsa bands. That is usually where you can see many of the good dancers, where the ambiente is really nice. In 2000 we went to a dance at The Arena at Pier 10 in Old San Juan with El Gran Combo, La Típica 73 with Tito Allen, Tommy Olivencia and Justo Betancourt. And we had Charlie Aponte (one of the singers of El Gran Combo) + wife as company at our table (coincidence, he knew someone else at our table). At those events I usually pinch myself to feel that I am really there and not dreaming :bouncy:

(Dreaming now about dancing en la Isla del Encanto.... will have to wait until September)

[borikensalsero]

WEPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Salsera-Alemana...

Indeed, indeed I've went to Salsa at the Hilton...

PR has been so americanized that now Jeans and a shirt is considered "dressy"... :(

My aunt is a salsa lover, she calls me all the time telling me she is watching El Gran Combo, La Sonora Poncena, Gilbertito, etc, for free... To top it all off, tells me that she is having a cold one for $1.50... Ahhhhh

I love how Male rican dancers dance as well. In a recent trip to PR, i was talking to one the "leading" salseras in PR right now. She told me that in PR, the males are taught to accentuate masculinity, tenderness, sexiness, basically cater to the lady, yet looking as masculine-sexy as possible. Which, I happen to agree with, they are able to dance exactly that way. A flurtatious, sexy, yet masculine display of salsa. WEPA!!! Goes, right in hand with ladies.

A friend of mine was telling me a story about one of the Congress'. She mentioned how tired she was of seeing the same performaces night after night, aireal shows, and all the crazy fast stuff, then she heard a hot song, went she went to see, there was the rican group performing.

She called it a breath of fresh air to see salsa with sensuality, poise, flurtatious, yet exciting. She couldn't believe how the simplicity of their performance made it that much more exciting to finally see a salsa with dancing, performance. Not one with spins, jumps, dips, etc...

*****

Contra men, Charlie Aponte y to'... WEPA!!! That is a hot story...

BTW, this month they are going to have a tribute to la Tipica in El Coliseo Roberto Clemente, or is it Irahm Bithom... Anyways, the one in Bayamon.

[tj]

That was a great post, salsera_alemana!

And yes, I find that the whole "competitive" thing mixed in with jealousy and envy is the bane of salsa scenes in general. It's unfortunate that this is so common, but thankfully it's not always the case.

[dragon3085]

Now now ladies, please give ol' SD a break, because I'm the one that will be doing the purple hat jokes around here! :lol: :twisted: ;)

Besides, you're getting off topic...so I'll get us back on here.

Dragon - I've been through Phoenix several times in the last year but I've never had time to go dancing...but next time I go I do want to check out a few clubs. I enjoy the scene in my area but I'm starting to realize just how limited it is.

SG

Its been a year or two now, but the place is called Bash on Ash Salsa night is every sunday. IT was by far the best place I found in Phoenix. There was a cuban resturant toward scottsdale that was good too, but I can't recall the name. I have a matchbook from the place so IF I run across it I will let you know.

patrick

[salsera_alemana]

Boriquen,


My aunt is a salsa lover, she calls me all the time telling me she is watching El Gran Combo, La Sonora Poncena, Gilbertito, etc, for free... To top it all off, tells me that she is having a cold one for $1.50... Ahhhhh .

OK, whenever you feel like being masoquista and want to know what you are currently missing out on in San Juan go to http://www.abailarsalsa.tk/. That is for people who like to suffer :cry:

A friend of mine was telling me a story about one of the Congress'. She mentioned how tired she was of seeing the same performaces night after night, aireal shows, and all the crazy fast stuff, then she heard a hot song, went she went to see, there was the rican group performing.

She called it a breath of fresh air to see salsa with sensuality, poise, flurtatious, yet exciting. She couldn't believe how the simplicity of their performance made it that much more exciting to finally see a salsa with dancing, performance. Not one with spins, jumps, dips, etc....

I totally agree with her. Although I love to see good shows, it is getting old. Not that I have been to so many congresses. I was at one evening event each at 2 Congresos in San Juan and at one evening event at the Bacardí Congreso in Stuttgart/Germany last year. And I have seen some of the Congreso videos of the other years. At the first 2 Congresos there was still some variety in dance performances regarding music and style, some uniqueness. Now it seems that all there is is fast mambo, and it has been like that at least for the past 3 congresos. Some performers even use the same song, so that you have to listen to the same Tito Puente mambo 3x in one show block.

Furthermore, the Congreso evening dances have no ambiente. The dancers all want to show off and be seen but do not have fun together, it is one big competition on the dance floor. And watching them is not even exiting because they all look basically the same. There are no Puerto Ricans except the organizers because Puerto Ricans do not spend 40 dollars to see a group that they can see for free the following night at some fiestas patronales.

But go to a real Puerto Rican dance event. That is where watching the dancers is a delight, where you can see some real nice dancing! You will not see all the fancy and sophisticated falls, dips and shines you see at the Congreso, but you see people dancing with joy, fun, sabor and style! Gozando con clase! Or just go the fiestas patronales in Loiza when La Sonora Ponceña plays. People in Loiza love la Sonora and dance on the pavement (which they only do at special events, not with all groups). There you can see some people dancing with sabor, especially the women. And the children!!! Some are just out of their dipers and already move like the adults, hilarious! They are a better show than some performers at the Congreso.

BTW, this month they are going to have a tribute to la Tipica in El Coliseo Roberto Clemente, or is it Irahm Bithom... Anyways, the one in Bayamon.

And a Ray Barretto concert. I saw Ray Barretto with Tito Allen and Adalberto Santiago in the Amfiteatro Tito Puente in 2002, what a great concert. The audience was mostly an older crowd who all knew all the songs by heart, great ambiente!

Hey, but you cannot complain in NYC, you have some great live concerts there. What can I say? Saw Cano Estremera two weeks ago in Frankfurt but now I will have to wait a while for the next good concert.

[squirrel]

Well, even if I haven't been in Puerto Rico so far, I have to agree with you, salsera-alemana, 'cause I saw the DVD you gave me...
Guys and gals, I saw this DVD of people dancing, not the pros... with professional training and ballroom training... but ordinary people... and GOD THEY COULD MOVE!
Also, salsera-alemana, I have the great honour and pleasure of watching your husband dance... just looking at him makes me happy! You can tell he's Puerto Rican!

Boriken, are you from Puerto Rico too?

[Pacion]

Boriken, are you from Puerto Rico too?

:shock: (in a very low voice) Squirrel, you don't know what you have just asked there :shock:


:lol:


(Yes he is :wink: )

[squirrel]

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

sorry...

[salsachinita]

Whoa. I have been busy for no more than 48 hrs and look what I've missed :shock: ........!

As a WOMAN I have to sing my praises to the Puerto Rican MALE dancers! They have always been my favorite dancers! I just love the way they move, their sabor and their elegance! I love to just watch them dance, but of course I even more love dancing with them.

I couldn't agree more, SA! They have always been my favourites too :D ! Too bad we have almost none of them in town :( ........

I'm also glad to see that I'm not the only one with the 'good old day' sentiment........one tends to feel lonely if there's a lack of others to share common experiences with :oops: ......

Melbourne salsa scene used to be as you've described.......small & friendly. Skill/technique wise, nowhere near today, I give you that.....but the emphasis was on musicality & connection. The kind of flash & trash of today would've been laughed at right there on the floor.....!

Of course, instead of being nostalgic we can learn from the past & make the most of the present.......for some day we might just look back at 2004 & refer to it as the 'good old days'......who knows :shock: :lol: .......?!

These days I've been making an effort to get to know the seemingly cliquy & competitive ones. A lot of them turn out to be just like you & I..... normal, nice, if a little reserve/stand-offish. I've been inviting everyone to check out our DF discussions here. If any of our post can reach one more individual, the efforts would have been worthwhile 8) .

[borikensalsero]

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

sorry...

It's Ok, I see pacion cleared it up... Indeed I am... and dying to move back there as well. :D :D :D :D

[tj]

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

sorry...

It's Ok, I see pacion cleared it up... Indeed I am... and dying to move back there as well. :D :D :D :D

Ok, sorry for the ignorant question but I've heard the term "boriqua" used by several Puerto Rican women I know. Never bothered to ask them, so I suppose this is as good of a place as any to ask...

[aragonh]

Its been a year or two now, but the place is called Bash on Ash Salsa night is every sunday. IT was by far the best place I found in Phoenix. There was a cuban resturant toward scottsdale that was good too, but I can't recall the name. I have a matchbook from the place so IF I run across it I will let you know.

patrick

The Phoenix Scene is a little different know, Dragon.
The Bash is no longer the place to be. I believe now there is a salsa social on sunday now.

The cuban restaurant no longer exists.

For the Salsa scene in Phoenix, check out PhoenixSalsa.com

[Pacion]

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

sorry...

It's Ok, I see pacion cleared it up... Indeed I am... and dying to move back there as well. :D :D :D :D

and dying to move back there as well. :D :D :D :D

That was what I was hinting at :lol: asking Boriken if he is Puerto Rican is like asking a thirsty man whether he would like some water :wink: On a serious note, it is amazing to see someone (a group of people, in fact) so passionate about their island/where they were born. :D

[borikensalsero]

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

sorry...

It's Ok, I see pacion cleared it up... Indeed I am... and dying to move back there as well. :D :D :D :D

Ok, sorry for the ignorant question but I've heard the term "boriqua" used by several Puerto Rican women I know. Never bothered to ask them, so I suppose this is as good of a place as any to ask...

The indigenous name of the island of Puerto Rico is Borinquen/Boriken/Borinken. In turn Puerto Ricans are also referred to as Borinqueños/Boricuas/Boriquas/Borinkenos/Borikenos. There are two words that give away a rican's nationality without the need to ask. They are wepa, and fo, like reading the first 2 letters of the word fungus, and enlongating the fu. Which means, stink. hehe

[tj]

The indigenous name of the island of Puerto Rico is Borinquen/Boriken/Borinken. In turn Puerto Ricans are also referred to as Borinqueños/Boricuas/Boriquas/Borinkenos/Borikenos. There are two words that give away a rican's nationality without the need to ask. They are wepa, and fo, like reading the first 2 letters of the word fungus, and enlongating the fu. Which means, stink. hehe

Lol!

Thanks for that - I learned something new today!

[squirrel]

Boriken... I'd love to dance with you! When are you coming to Bucharest?!
(I danced with one Puerto Rican and loved it...)

[borikensalsero]

Boriken... I'd love to dance with you! When are you coming to Bucharest?!
(I danced with one Puerto Rican and loved it...)

Hmmm, soon I hope, we have planned Spain next year, then egypt, but we are open for a third location although a debate over Australia and Peru has erupted as of a late. Might just have to put bucharest on the map, and learn on1 as well. I really, really, stink on1.

[salsachinita]

although a debate over Australia and Peru has erupted as of a late.

Oooooooh Australia please....!!!!!! We have enough Peruvians here to make you feel like you are in Peru anyway :wink: !

[borikensalsero]

lol... that would be just about enough to make up for peru then. :D

[Sakura]

:shock: :shock: Boriken, you'd better not leave NY before I can get there and grab a dance with you! With everything I've seen about how well Puerto Rican's dance, I think I'd be in for a MAJOR treat!!!!

Pleaaaase don't leave the States before I can dance with you?! *pleading look* :D 8)

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[Sakura]

Everyone seems like they're genuinely friendly and want to be part of a big family. I wonder: is this the case for all dance scenes, or is our community just lucky? Comments welcome :D

Well, it wasn't a Salsa scene (sorry! :wink: ), but when I went to my first Salsa Workshop, it was run by a WCS club here in Indy (the R.E.B.E.L.S.), and everyone there was really nice and friendly to me! =^__^= It was very cool. I'm looking forward to the dance they're having on the 20th at my studio. I get to learn WCS! :D

So, yeah, it was really nice, and there was no pressure to perform well or not at all. (=^_^=;;) That made it really nice for me, since I was the youngest person there... Probably by at least 20 years or so... :shock: 8) But it was still great.

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[borikensalsero]

:shock: :shock: Boriken, you'd better not leave NY before I can get there and grab a dance with you! With everything I've seen about how well Puerto Rican's dance, I think I'd be in for a MAJOR treat!!!!

Pleaaaase don't leave the States before I can dance with you?! *pleading look* :D 8)

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

Deal, I know I'll be here all this year, most likely next, and perhaps the following. :D Didn't you mention, you'll be here in NY this year?

[pygmalion]

although a debate over Australia and Peru has erupted as of a late.

Oooooooh Australia please....!!!!!! We have enough Peruvians here to make you feel like you are in Peru anyway :wink: !

Hey wait a second! Are we competing to get boriken to come visit? Huh? If so, Orlando works for me. :wink: :D Really inexpensive airfares from NYC. Honest. 8)

[peachexploration]

Right Jenn. Not to mention nice weather, theme parks and some of the best hotels in the world. :lol: 8)

[SDsalsaguy]

Just remember Boriken, if you stop by SD on the way we can do that 1 for 2 "trade"! :wink:

[borikensalsero]

Imma have to choose SD, he is offering an exchange... :D And the way my on1 is...

How is sun over there SD? Cause Orlando is sounding quite good on the freezing A/C here at work.

[SDsalsaguy]

Nice, warm, sunny, and litlle humidity my friend! 8)

[mellody43]

Deal, I know I'll be here all this year, most likely next, and perhaps the following. :D Didn't you mention, you'll be here in NY this year?

Boriken -- I was talking with Tim (TJ) last night and he said you dance on 2! *HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM!* LOL! I'm an on1 dancer -- how will we ever manage?

:oops:

[Pacion]

Mellody :roll: if you don't manage to do any On2 classes before going to NY, as long as you keep moving your feet, you will be fine. :wink: Boriken is a good pilot :lol:

[borikensalsero]

Mellody :roll: if you don't manage to do any On2 classes before going to NY, as long as you keep moving your feet, you will be fine. :wink: Boriken is a good pilot :lol:

Thanks yous verys muchs Pacion, even if we hit some speed bumps here and there, it had nothing to do with me, but you have the on2 thing pretty pat down. Even if you only have danced it about 10 times.

Mellody, my on1 is awesome!!!! Ask Pacion how good me is on1! lol :banana:

[Pacion]

Mellody, my on1 is awesome!!!! Ask Pacion how good me is on1! lol :banana:

:shock: Don't you love it when someone puts you on the spot like that :oops: :lol: What ever happens, air tubulence or otherwise, Boriken is no pattern dancer :wink: :lol:

Besides Boriken, weren't one of your last words to me when I was in NY that you were going to work on your On1 :roll: :roll: :lol:

[mellody43]

Mellody, my on1 is awesome!!!! Ask Pacion how good me is on1! lol :banana:

:shock: Don't you love it when someone puts you on the spot like that :oops: :lol: What ever happens, air tubulence or otherwise, Boriken is no pattern dancer :wink: :lol:

Besides Boriken, weren't one of your last words to me when I was in NY that you were going to work on your On1 :roll: :roll: :lol:

hehehehe. Well, I might be able to do a little on2 before then -- but 4 years of on1 will be tough to reprogram =)

Melissa

[Pacion]

hehehehe. Well, I might be able to do a little on2 before then -- but 4 years of on1 will be tough to reprogram =)


Same here. But the trick I used was to keep moving my feet :lol: oh and to follow the direction in which Boriken, or other guys I danced with, was taking my hand. Where thou takest my hand, I shall follow :lol:

[mellody43]

hehehehe. Well, I might be able to do a little on2 before then -- but 4 years of on1 will be tough to reprogram =)


Same here. But the trick I used was to keep moving my feet :lol: oh and to follow the direction in which Boriken, or other guys I danced with, was taking my hand. Where thou takest my hand, I shall follow :lol:

Good advice!

"If they lead it, I will follow."
(bad play on "Field of Dreams" quote)

[Genesius Redux]

Salsa in Nashville--

We had two venues, then one closed down, following a murder! (Excitement, and no, I don't have the details)

Now we only have the one--Club Calliente on Printer's Alley. I've found it to be a relatively friendly scene. I've never been turned down for a dance there, and the dancers tend to mix with people who are showing up for the first time.

Generally it's best (especially if you're female) to go in groups. A woman who looks like she's part of a couple will be left alone unless she's left by herself for two or three dances--whereas women in groups are asked to dance all the time. There is a little bit of a pick-up scene going on there as well. Part of the problem with being the only salsa venue in town is that the club serves a number of different purposes.

Some experienced dancers don't always like to go there unless they know there will be people they know, because the leads tend to be kind of heavy and the ladies tend to expect that. There is a very happy fit with the club and the ballroom venue where I dance. At least once per month, the teachers organize a night out at Calliente. Most of them know and are on friendly terms with the owner (who is himself a terrific LA-style dancer) so it's all very chummy that way.

On the other hand, there's always a high concentration of people who are dancing for the first time and who never intend to come back. And that can be a drag.

Overall, friendly but small. We're trying to build a salsa community here.

[Pacion]

We're trying to build a salsa community here.

Need a team of DFers to help :wink:

[tj]

We're trying to build a salsa community here.

Need a team of DFers to help :wink:

(Ok, now. Everyone all at once...)

"Road Trip!!!"

[Genesius Redux]

We're trying to build a salsa community here.

Need a team of DFers to help :wink:

(Ok, now. Everyone all at once...)

"Road Trip!!!"

Hey absolutely. But I've only got one spare bedroom, and that's already been promised. Everyone else is welcome to crash on the couch and the floor--but you have to like dogs.

No, make that--you have to be really tolerant of dogs....

[tj]

No, make that--you have to be really tolerant of dogs....

Being the salsa scene and all, I would think that most of the ladies are quite used to dogs.

:wink:

[Genesius Redux]

No, make that--you have to be really tolerant of dogs....

Being the salsa scene and all, I would think that most of the ladies are quite used to dogs.

:wink:

Yes, well then, remembering the handling a wild salsera/o thread, this one would be the whirling dervish salsero.

[mellody43]

No, make that--you have to be really tolerant of dogs....

Being the salsa scene and all, I would think that most of the ladies are quite used to dogs.

:wink:

*CHING*! Point for TJ!

I love dogs. Take me to a party with little kids and dogs, and I'll most likely spend my time with them. LOL!

:roll:

[tj]

I love dogs. Take me to a party with little kids and dogs, and I'll most likely spend my time with them. LOL!

:roll:

Little kids and dogs? Sounds like the Wilsonian... :twisted:

[mellody43]

I love dogs. Take me to a party with little kids and dogs, and I'll most likely spend my time with them. LOL!

:roll:

Little kids and dogs? Sounds like the Wilsonian... :twisted:


Now now, be nice. The REAL dogs don't go to the Wilsonian, trust me. ;-)

[salsachinita]

but 4 years of on1 will be tough to reprogram =)

Try nearly 15 years on1 :shock: .......! I have soooooo many little quirks (read: bad habits :oops: ) to smooth out, let along trying to hear music on a different timing!!!!!!!

But, going to NYC & getting a dance with Boriken is worth all the efforts in the world.

Right...? Pacion....?