Chacarera in your area

[tangobro]

In New York City, a couple of Chacarera tracks get played at maybe 2 or possibly 3 Milongas, and during at least 1 practica that I know of. I enjoy it and if choosing between 2 venues will go to the one that might play Chacarera.

People who have been to Bs. Aires say Chacarera is a regular part of the Tango scene.

How common is Chacarera in your area?
Do you dance it?

[Angel HI]

It is a well known part of the argentine dance culture, yet not as much in the US. However, it has it's place. The chacarera is not the same genre of dance as social tango, vals, milonga, etc. and would not be found commonlly in the same venues no more than one would expect to see a square dance in the middle of a disco.

I enjoy doing/teaching it when apropos.

[hbboogie1]

In New York City, a couple of Chacarera tracks get played at maybe 2 or possibly 3 Milongas, and during at least 1 practica that I know of. I enjoy it and if choosing between 2 venues will go to the one that might play Chacarera.

People who have been to Bs. Aires say Chacarera is a regular part of the Tango scene.

How common is Chacarera in your area?
Do you dance it?

In Los Angeles at the regular Sunday night Argentine Association Milonga Chacarera is usually played if their are enough interested dancers. Do we dance it? Yes we do.

[jantango]

In New York City, a couple of Chacarera tracks get played at maybe 2 or possibly 3 Milongas, and during at least 1 practica that I know of. I enjoy it and if choosing between 2 venues will go to the one that might play Chacarera.

People who have been to Bs. Aires say Chacarera is a regular part of the Tango scene.

How common is Chacarera in your area?
Do you dance it?

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Chacarera is a regular part of the tango scene in Buenos Aires. That makes it sound as though every milonga in Buenos Aires has Chacarera tandas during milongas. They don't. My experience in the milongas goes back 13 years. Ten years ago I recall that there was a break at Las Estrellas in Club Armenia (now called La Viruta) with two Chacareras for the entire night. No other milonga was playing Chacarera at the time. Then gradually others began adding the music.

One needs to understand that the way tandas are played today in BsAs milongas is not the way the music was done in the downtown confiterias during the 1950s when all types of music was played--jazz, foxtrot, rumba, salsa--in addition to tango, vals and milonga. In the late 1980s, that all changed when tango became popular in the city once again.

The decision is up to the organizer of each milonga as to whether or not Chacarera (and Paso Doble) is played by the deejay. The Saturday milonga at Centro Region Leonesa has a break of two Chacareras. The weekend milongas at Lo de Celia do also, but not at the Wednesday evening milonga. I have never seen Chacarera done at El Beso, Plaza Bohemia, or Club Gricel. The afternoon milongas at El Arranque have Chacarera. As long as they dancers want it, they provide it.

Chacarera is the folk music of the country. Each province has its own music and version of Chacarera. Occasionally there may be an exhibition of Chacarera or Zamba at a milonga. The "folk music and dance" of Buenos Aires is tango.

It is interesting that NYC has included Chacarera to the mix of music. I assume the DJs are trying to copy what they see and hear in BsAs.

I think it would be an even better idea if US organizers would try to copy the BsAs milonga atmosphere as well by arranging seating to face the dance floor, turn up the lights so the cabeceo could be used, play recordings of the milonga orchestras (in tandas with cortinas) instead of alternative music, and enforce the line of dance. That's more important to a milonga than Chacarera.


Tango Chamuyo: Milongas and Milongueros of Buenos Aires

[Angel HI]

It is interesting that NYC has included Chacarera to the mix of music. I assume the DJs are trying to copy what they see and hear in BsAs.

I think it would be an even better idea if US organizers would try to copy the BsAs milonga atmosphere as well by arranging seating to face the dance floor, turn up the lights so the cabeceo could be used, play recordings of the milonga orchestras (in tandas with cortinas) instead of alternative music, and enforce the line of dance. That's more important to a milonga than Chacarera.
BRAVO! :notworth: BRAVO! :cheers: BRAVO!

[Peaches]

Or, maybe, instead of just "trying to copy" what goes on in BsAs, maybe they think it's kind of a cool and fun dance that sort of fits with the rest of things and so why not add it to the mix? I kind of which it was played around here, just for something fun...some variety.

Some of us prefer the dimmer lights (more atmosphere), the lack of the cabeceo, and love alternative music. Hell, around here it's as if the only things I hear are traditional milonga orchestras, played in tandas with cortinas. I've got nothing against that--I love it actually, and listen to it frequently even when I'm not dancing--but variety is great, too, ya know? Nothing wrong with variety.

There's no reason everything has got to be in lockstep with tradition...

[Captain Jep]

My view too Peaches :)

Dont see much Chacarera here in the UK. But I have seen it from time to time. I dont think people here truly "understand" what it's about - more's the shame.

[Ampster]

Originally Posted by jantango http://dance-forums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://dance-forums.com/showthread.php?p=693653#post693653)
... turn up the lights so the cabeceo could be used, play recordings of the milonga orchestras (in tandas with cortinas) instead of alternative music, and enforce the line of dance. That's more important to a milonga than Chacarera.


The more traditional milongas in Seattle are strating to BE like that. I like it! BTW, the Chacarera is used here as more of a 7th inning stretch (Baseball term), and interlude in the middle of the milonga.

[jantango]

Or, maybe, instead of just "trying to copy" what goes on in BsAs, maybe they think it's kind of a cool and fun dance that sort of fits with the rest of things and so why not add it to the mix? I kind of which it was played around here, just for something fun...some variety.

Some of us prefer the dimmer lights (more atmosphere), the lack of the cabeceo, and love alternative music. Hell, around here it's as if the only things I hear are traditional milonga orchestras, played in tandas with cortinas. I've got nothing against that--I love it actually, and listen to it frequently even when I'm not dancing--but variety is great, too, ya know? Nothing wrong with variety.

There's no reason everything has got to be in lockstep with tradition...

Dim lights? You mean like when you're making love in bed? Why not dance by candlelight? How romantic! So what if you get kicked or stepped on. Dim the lights and everyone will close their eyes...including the men. That's not a milonga.

No cabeceo? How many women complain about having to dance with a guy who came to the table? He won't take no for an answer. The cabeceo has worked in the milongas for 50 years. Don't bother with it. Go and ask the guys instead. You'll get to dance more that way. Just prepare yourself when you travel to Buenos Aires to dance. It's another world. The men hate it when women invite them to dance.

Alternative music? Then why are you going to tango dances? How many times have you danced foxtrot to cha cha music? Or swing to waltz?

Tango is danced to tango music. There are probably 500 great tangos for the milonga. How many of them do you know? There are 250 recordings alone by Carlos Di Sarli and more than 1,000 by Juan D'Arienzo. It would take more than a few nights to listen and dance to that number. Alternative music is a copout for those too lazy to sit down and listen to tango music.

There is a variety of orchestras for tango. They are Anibal Troilo, Juan D'Arienzo, Miguel Calo, Carlos Di Sarli, Angel D'Agostino, Osvaldo Fresedo, Ricardo Tanturi, Rodolfo Biaggi, Pedro Laurenz, etc. I doubt your deejay has given you a taste of these yet. And you want something other than the Golden Age music for tango?

[hbboogie1]

Dim lights? You mean like when you're making love in bed? Why not dance by candlelight? How romantic! So what if you get kicked or stepped on. Dim the lights and everyone will close their eyes...including the men. That's not a milonga.

No cabeceo? How many women complain about having to dance with a guy who came to the table? He won't take no for an answer. The cabeceo has worked in the milongas for 50 years. Don't bother with it. Go and ask the guys instead. You'll get to dance more that way. Just prepare yourself when you travel to Buenos Aires to dance. It's another world. The men hate it when women invite them to dance.

Alternative music? Then why are you going to tango dances? How many times have you danced foxtrot to cha cha music? Or swing to waltz?

Tango is danced to tango music. There are probably 500 great tangos for the milonga. How many of them do you know? There are 250 recordings alone by Carlos Di Sarli and more than 1,000 by Juan D'Arienzo. It would take more than a few nights to listen and dance to that number. Alternative music is a copout for those too lazy to sit down and listen to tango music.

There is a variety of orchestras for tango. They are Anibal Troilo, Juan D'Arienzo, Miguel Calo, Carlos Di Sarli, Angel D'Agostino, Osvaldo Fresedo, Ricardo Tanturi, Rodolfo Biaggi, Pedro Laurenz, etc. I doubt your deejay has given you a taste of these yet. And you want something other than the Golden Age music for tango?

Bravo Jan

no la cazan!

[Angel HI]

Hmmm. I'm going to have to take back the "Bravo". I thought that Jan actually was saying to simply cut out trying to emulate Baires milongas, and go back to basics "like they do in BsAs". Now, we get this......

Dim lights? You mean like when you're making love in bed? Why not dance by candlelight? How romantic! So what if you get kicked or stepped on. Dim the lights and everyone will close their eyes...including the men. That's not a milonga.It is here. And quite enjoyable. I have danced tango by candlelight...many times, and, yes, it was incredibly romantic.

No cabeceo? How many women complain about having to dance with a guy who came to the table? He won't take no for an answer. The cabeceo has worked in the milongas for 50 years. Don't bother with it. Go and ask the guys instead. You'll get to dance more that way. Just prepare yourself when you travel to Buenos Aires to dance. It's another world. The men hate it when women invite them to dance. In the US, women ask guys all the time. It is OK. There is no excuse for bad behavior, and one can not blame that on the lack of a cabeceo. Such eye games exist, as well. And, yes, when we travel to BsAs, we are intelligent enough to know that it is another place with a different culture and custom.

Alternative music? Then why are you going to tango dances? How many times have you danced foxtrot to cha cha music? Or swing to waltz? Many times. Everyone who knows music knows that all songs, less waltzes (vals) have at least 3 different rhythms that one may choose to dance on. Each song will have a dominant rhythm that predicts a norm, but theat norm isn't always a requisite.

Tango is danced to tango music. Alternative music is a copout for those too lazy to sit down and listen to tango music.In light of the preceding paragraph, one can say that there really is no such thing as tango music. There certainly is music that persons traditionally dance tango to, but what exactly "is" tango music? Are you saying that no music other than the Golden Era pieces can make a person feel what they feel when they hear/dance a tango? Well, that would be ludicrous. That would be like saying, when you are hungry, nothing but a particular brand of bread will fill you. Music is a stimulus that feeds our feelings and emotions, and we interpret such in many ways according to many things. If a tango makes me feel deeply, and a beautiful bolero makes me feel deeply, yes they might make me feel deeply differently, but if I choose to interpret those feelings to the bolero through a tango, does that make me wrong, or unknowledgabe, or....too lazy to wait for a tango.

There is a variety of orchestras for tango. They are Anibal Troilo, Juan D'Arienzo, Miguel Calo, Carlos Di Sarli, Angel D'Agostino, Osvaldo Fresedo, Ricardo Tanturi, Rodolfo Biaggi, Pedro Laurenz, etc. I doubt your deejay has given you a taste of these yet. And you want something other than the Golden Age music for tango?Have you ever been outside of Baires...to the US? Music leaders play the music of all of these great composers and orq. leaders all of teh time. We know them exceptionally well. You doubt that we have ever heard of this? What a stupid thing to say.

[Captain Jep]

I admire those who go out to BA and "live the dream". It takes courage and fortitude. But equally I get annoyed by people who then turn around and patronize the rest of us because "what you're dancing isnt the real tango".

Give it a break please. This was a thread on chacarera, for Heavens sake! How did it become a thread on "Golden Age good, Nuevo Bad" in just a page and a half?

Angel, you speak for all of us. Perhaps we can now get back on topic?

[Angel HI]

Hopefully.

[bordertangoman]

no chacarera round here ( thankfully) its not something I find appealing. I would rather learn the Pavan

[Peaches]

Dim lights? You mean like when you're making love in bed? Why not dance by candlelight? How romantic! So what if you get kicked or stepped on. Dim the lights and everyone will close their eyes...including the men. That's not a milonga.

No cabeceo? How many women complain about having to dance with a guy who came to the table? He won't take no for an answer. The cabeceo has worked in the milongas for 50 years. Don't bother with it. Go and ask the guys instead. You'll get to dance more that way. Just prepare yourself when you travel to Buenos Aires to dance. It's another world. The men hate it when women invite them to dance.

Alternative music? Then why are you going to tango dances? How many times have you danced foxtrot to cha cha music? Or swing to waltz?

Tango is danced to tango music. There are probably 500 great tangos for the milonga. How many of them do you know? There are 250 recordings alone by Carlos Di Sarli and more than 1,000 by Juan D'Arienzo. It would take more than a few nights to listen and dance to that number. Alternative music is a copout for those too lazy to sit down and listen to tango music.

There is a variety of orchestras for tango. They are Anibal Troilo, Juan D'Arienzo, Miguel Calo, Carlos Di Sarli, Angel D'Agostino, Osvaldo Fresedo, Ricardo Tanturi, Rodolfo Biaggi, Pedro Laurenz, etc. I doubt your deejay has given you a taste of these yet. And you want something other than the Golden Age music for tango?
Dude, chill. You're new here and you don't know much about me, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But, really, the personal attacks are unwarranted.

Dimmer lights, yes. Not "candlelight dark" like making love, not dark like a club...dimmed. You can still see people and make eye contact and read if you wanted to (albeit possibly with a bit of strain). Not as dark as what I experienced at La Viruta, but not as bright as I saw at Confiteria Ideal. Dim. Not a big deal...it's still a milonga.

I happen not to like the cabeceo. It's a personal thing--I'm shy and I find eye contact a very difficult thing. Therefore, i prefer it when a guy has the stones to come up and ask me to dance. I know that men in BsAs don't like women to ask, and that's fine. I've been there, I've seen it, but I don't live there and the scene where I am is totally different. Different culture, different norms. Not a big deal...it's still a milonga.

Why do I go to milongas when I like tango music? That's got to be an uncalled for sarcastic question; I can't believe it's genuine. I love tango. I love the dance, I love the music (yes...the music...almost all of it), I love how I feel about myself when I dance, I love how it erases all of my stress and worries from "the real world." Is that good enough?

What does it matter if I happen to also like alternative music? I can like any damn music I friggin' want to. I'm young, and there are plenty of non-traditional-tango songs that make me want to get up and dance, and tango is my vocabulary for doing so. It's not lazy, it's not a copout, it's not lack of musical appreciation or understanding. (Which I find just laughable. My mother was a musician, and she's been teaching me about how to listen to music since I could walk. I get it, really.) If you don't like that...fine. You don't have to dance tango to those kinds of songs. It's not a big deal...it's only tango, it's only a dance.

As for my knowledge of traditional tango music. I have listened to practially NOTHING but tango music--Golden Age through Gotan Project through whatever else--for about three years. I've heard plenty of the various orchestras. It's not lack of exposure or understanding or appreciation. It's liking variety. Of all kinds.

Just because things are "the way it's done in BsAs" doesn't mean it has to be the same everywhere. Just because I like modern, electronic and alternative music doesn't mean I'm lazy or not truly into tango. Just because cultures vary, doesn't mean a milonga is any less of a milonga.

I'm confused. In other posts, IIRC, you seem to have disparaged the idea of milongas in the US and elsewhere for just copying things as they are done in BsAs. I agree with you on that. But you also seem to say that the way things are in BsAs is the only true way of doing things...and that just isn't true.

If you disagree, which you obviously do, that's fine. It really doesn't bother me. But do me a favor, and keep the personal attacks out of it, particularly since you don't know the first thing about me.

[bordertangoman]

Dim lights? You mean like when you're making love in bed? Why not dance by candlelight? How romantic! So what if you get kicked or stepped on. Dim the lights and everyone will close their eyes...including the men. That's not a milonga.

No cabeceo? How many women complain about having to dance with a guy who came to the table? He won't take no for an answer. The cabeceo has worked in the milongas for 50 years. Don't bother with it. Go and ask the guys instead. You'll get to dance more that way. Just prepare yourself when you travel to Buenos Aires to dance. It's another world. The men hate it when women invite them to dance.

Alternative music? Then why are you going to tango dances? How many times have you danced foxtrot to cha cha music? Or swing to waltz?

Tango is danced to tango music. There are probably 500 great tangos for the milonga. How many of them do you know? There are 250 recordings alone by Carlos Di Sarli and more than 1,000 by Juan D'Arienzo. It would take more than a few nights to listen and dance to that number. Alternative music is a copout for those too lazy to sit down and listen to tango music.

There is a variety of orchestras for tango. They are Anibal Troilo, Juan D'Arienzo, Miguel Calo, Carlos Di Sarli, Angel D'Agostino, Osvaldo Fresedo, Ricardo Tanturi, Rodolfo Biaggi, Pedro Laurenz, etc. I doubt your deejay has given you a taste of these yet. And you want something other than the Golden Age music for tango?

yeah Dude get off your pedestal; you are welcome to have your own preferences and tastes in music and if its traditional that is fine; as far as I am concerned to be a milonguero is like being a knight; you treat a woman like a lady; you respect all irrespective of their views; and you uphold courteous behaviour. I know of people who are so fanatical about tango music that they fail to see other people as human beings in their attempts "to be right and tango must be this way":
Then they become like the Taliban.

[Tango Bellingham]

Then they become like the Taliban.

I think Godwin's Law needs another addition: "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler [or the Taliban] approaches 1."

Game, set, match, jantango, by default.

Oh, BTW, she's right. :)

[hbboogie1]

yeah Dude get off your pedestal; you are welcome to have your own preferences and tastes in music and if its traditional that is fine; as far as I am concerned to be a milonguero is like being a knight; you treat a woman like a lady; you respect all irrespective of their views; and you uphold courteous behaviour. I know of people who are so fanatical about tango music that they fail to see other people as human beings in their attempts "to be right and tango must be this way":
Then they become like the Taliban.

I can see your point... on the top of your head.
I really admire the "Knight" that calls a lady "Dude"
Of course I'm assuming Jan's a lady?

[Captain Jep]

Our hopes were dashed....

[Peaches]

*bangs head repeatedly against wall*

*sigh*

[Zoopsia59]

When Tchaikovsky first presented the music for Swan Lake, it was considered "undance-able" by the ballet world.

Times change
Dances change
Opinions change

The only thing constant is change

Without the evolution of dance styles, there would be no TANGO either!

[Zoopsia59]

Dim lights? You mean like when you're making love in bed? Why not dance by candlelight? How romantic! So what if you get kicked or stepped on. Dim the lights and everyone will close their eyes...including the men. That's not a milonga.

At one of the milongas I went to in BA the smoke was so think you couldn't see anything anyway. Those of us not used to such things (since smoking is illegal pretty much everywhere in the US now) could barely open their eyes because of the burn.

I heard that they've changed the smoking laws in BA now though?

[Zoopsia59]

How many times have you danced foxtrot to cha cha music? Or swing to waltz?

Tango is danced to tango music.

Well, let's see... I've danced Tango to Fox trot, Fox Trot to Tango, Milonga to Meringue and Paso Double, Vals to Waltzes, Viennese Waltz to Vals, East Coast swing to WCS because I don't know WCS, Salsa to Cha Cha when I was just to tired to bother with the cha-and-cha and a slow Rhumba to all sorts of thngs for the same reason. (and don't get me started on dancing Salsa to Mambo and vice versa)

Hence the discussions of rhythm.

Around here, milongas are billed as X% traditional/X% alternative. Different organizations are known for a certain mix. Even in the milongas that play more alternative, it comes later in the evening.

My objection to the prevalence of alternative music is not that it is "incorrect" for tradition, but that so many tango-ers use it as an excuse to ignore the music since it often doesn't have a strong rhythmic quality. They can drift around doing their fancy moves willy-nilly without concerning themselves if the moves "fit" the music.

But a nuevo style tanda done to Gotan or some other alternative music is a wonderful experience with a leader who knows how to actually use that music. (I know, um.... 3... maybe 4. That's it)

[Zoopsia59]

Hmmm... topic... where was the topic..

oh wait
FOUND IT

There was a brief foray into Chacarera around here and it didn't go anywhere. The timing worked out well for me because I had just been to BA and taken some classes and lessons in it. (some from a Brazilian, I think, or maybe he was Argentine, who had been with Cirque de Soleil in Montreal and spoke French and Spanish but no English... it was a quite an interesting experience trying to figure out when he demonstrated corrections to the class whether he was saying "Do this" or "DON"T do this")

Anyway, one of the area tango organizers arranged a workshop in Chacarera abourt that time, but that was the only instruction there ever was in it, so it kinda died out as far as playing it in the milongas as a break. Not enough people knew it.