Asking someone to leave for refusal

[Spitfire]

Last night I was at a WCS dance that was recently started on Sundays. As I was leaving the host told me that he observed me requesting a dance from a couple of ladies who passed, they wanted to sit one out in order to rest. He told me he was concerned as he does not allow this at his dances, meaning a flat turn down unless one does so to take a breather and that he will tell anyone who does to leave and return them their money. While refusing a request for a dance is generally discouraged this is the first I've heard of anyone doing this. Is this more common than what I believe?

[etp777]

Never heard of it myself, and seems a little excessive to me.

[Zhena]

Last night I was at a WCS dance that was recently started on Sundays. As I was leaving the host told me that he observed me requesting a dance from a couple of ladies who passed, they wanted to sit one out in order to rest. He told me he was concerned as he does not allow this at his dances, meaning a flat turn down unless one does so to take a breather and that he will tell anyone who does to leave and return them their money. While refusing a request for a dance is generally discouraged this is the first I've heard of anyone doing this. Is this more common than what I believe?

I think that strict enforcement of standards of etiquette may be counter-productive. I don't refuse dances without good reason, but I would feel uncomfortable with that rule. I might choose not to attend functions where it is in force. It is acceptable to let people know what the desired standard is, but asking someone to leave because they have their own reasons for refusing a dance would be much more offensive to me than the refusal itself. Fostering a welcoming atmosphere that encourages mixing will work better in the long run.

[SPratt74]

Never heard of it myself, and seems a little excessive to me.

I agree. I've never heard of this either. Doesn't make much sense to me. It seems a bit well... hmmm... confusing. To me you would probably lose students instead of gaining them if you are that strict when it comes to socials and/or anything in the studio. Interesting.

[etp777]

Yeah, definitely seeems counter productive. And don't claim to know WCS world, but can think of several valid reasons to say no or ask me again later in ballroom world (breather, recovery from someone stepping on/hitting you, dont' dance that dance, etc), and first two at least certainly apply to WCS and seem to be valid reasons for a no to me. Kicking someone out regardless for saying know is just not smart.

[DL]

It sounds like the premise of Judge Dredd -- a deeply insightful cautionary tale of yesteryear -- only with dance etiquette instead of post-apocalyptic municipal crime fighting. Ah, what a heavy burden indeed, is that borne by the etiquette police, judge, and jury.

Edit to add: But then, if it was easy, everyone would do it.

[Rugby]

Who does the guy think he is, a dance pimp? He has no right to tell someone they have to dance with another person. How about if that person has B.O. or bad breath or is offensive or worse, soaked in sweat. For example, I don't turn people down unless I have a good reason. I danced with one guy that was just wringing in sweat and smelly. He pressed against me and ruined a very expensive spot clean only dress that I was wearing for the first time. No way will I dance with him again if he is that sweaty. We all sweat but bring a dry shirt for goodness sake. Another example I know of is of two other girl's that have come away with two wet boobs like they were lactating after dancing with a very sweaty guy. They were so embarrassed they left. So if they turned this guy down the next time would they be kicked out? If the studio owner told me I had to dance with the guy then I would say to him sure, but you can cut me a cheque for $250 for the dress if it's ruined. Lets see if he would still feel the same way if he had to account for the guy's actions. I can understand what he is trying to achieve but things are not that cut and dried in real life. He is setting himself up for some trouble down the road. There are too many variables.

[DL]

...

Oh gosh, I'm sorry but I just can't help it...

"...bring a dry shirt..." er, so that goes 'double' for the ladies?
"...not that cut and dried..." or, 'cut and soaked,' as the case may be?


(Full disclosure: I sweat but bring at least two changes of shirts; often more. It's usually one nice shirt and some solid-colored plain cotton t-shirts that can be replaced for $5 when they've completed their service. Life is too short to spend very much of it on clothing logistics.)

[Terpsichorean Clod]

"You will allow, that in both (matrimony and dancing), man has the advantage of choice, woman only the power of refusal;" - Henry Tilney from Northanger Abbey

There was some discussion in the Rejections (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=6787) thread about how men reject perhaps less directly than women do by not asking individuals to dance. It seems to me that we put more emphasis on the etiquette of acceptance rather than of asking. If that guy is going to enforce rules for the women, will he do the same for the men? Will he make sure the men don't dance too many times with the same partner? Will he make sure there are no wallflowers? Will he make sure the men don't mob the most advanced or best looking women? Will he ask the men not to seek a second or third dance with the same person until they have danced with everyone in the room?

[newbie]

the host told me that he observed me requesting a dance from a couple of ladies who passed, they wanted to sit one out in order to rest.

Spitfire, you are going to be banned from this place because you invited ladies at an inappropriate time?

[tsb]

for those of you unfamiliar with WCS, while swing dancers have a reputation for being friendly, WCS dancers are known to eat their own young.

to me, the implication was clear that the women who refused to dance did not take a breather but accepted subsequent offers to dance to the same song - even if tom (spitfire) didn't notice that. (tom - priscilla in phoenix is on facebook) so if i were running a venue and i saw that happening to a person new to the venue (and possibly WCS), i could see myself being be prompted to approach that newcomer and reassure him, especially if there are always extra follows, and you don't want to risk losing a new lead.

i have thrown monthly dance parties in my home for years now and i have a loyal following (as evidenced by my avatar). one of the reasons for that loyalty is that my guests (especially the females) know that i emphasize dance etiquette and i have no compunction about dropping people off my EVITE list if they violate basic dance etiquette on a regular basis; this is not a new concept - in the past, people observed etiquette at formal balls, etc. knowing full well that the giving of offense risked a penalty of not being invited to future events.

[Spitfire]

to me, the implication was clear that the women who refused to dance did not take a breather but accepted subsequent offers to dance to the same song - even if tom (spitfire) didn't notice that. (tom - priscilla in phoenix is on facebook)

No, that didn't happen, they both sat it out. Of course, had they have done this I'd have never asked them again.

Yes, I joined Facebook recently and saw her there.

Spitfire, you are going to be banned from this place because you invited ladies at an inappropriate time?

LOL - I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one. :mrgreen:

[Wolfgang]

This 'host' (or whatever his title may be) is obviously completely out of touch with reality.
Blowing off one guy with one of about 30,000 Billion different excuses ranging from innovative to ultra-lame and 5 seconds later accepting another guy is par for the course at bars and clubs.
Happens millions of times every night all over the world.

[and123]

This is not a bar/club/meatmarket scene. It is a (from the sounds of it) relatively well-structured social dance. Not at all the same thing.

[Wolfgang]

In my experience, 'well-structured social dances' are basically meat markets for the 'more mature' or meat markets with more veneer.
So, it's till the same thing, people just try to pretend really hard that it's not.

[dbk]

Wow, no, I've never been to a social dance where that happened. I would be shocked... and I would never come back. That's crazy.

Someone mentioned that, to be fair, this rule would have to be enforced with men asking women to dance, not just whether women accept or not -- I completely agree.

Plus, sometimes a woman just isn't comfortable dancing with a certain man. Should I be forced to dance with Mr. Feelyhands? Or the guy who has sneezed in two of my friends' faces while dancing with them? The guy who throws me around while dancing, or the one who steps on my feet every other step? Should one of my friends be forced to dance with the guy who's been half-stalking her? Or, quite simply, should I be forced to dance with ANYONE I don't want to dance with? I mean, the whole point of a social dance is to have fun... not to be pressured into doing things you don't want to.

I would definitely either talk to the owner about how unfair this is, or just make it clear by taking my business (and probably my entire team's business) elsewhere.

[Chris Stratton]

If an organizer is going to try to manage their event and not invite back those who shun others, then they also have to not invite back those who give legitimate cause for being shunned... and be extremely perceptive and aware of all of the nuances of interaction between their guests.

It probably can be done; but it's probably most easily done in a setting where gossip and scandal are the primary occupation of your social circle; ie, in an historical novel, or whatever reality approximated that.

And I doubt it was really very much about dancing then, but mostly about the social dynamic.

[Larinda McRaven]

Or what about the person who "doesn't" ask you to dance when you want.... they are shunning you too!

[Larinda McRaven]

In my experience, 'well-structured social dances' are basically meat markets for the 'more mature' or meat markets with more veneer.
So, it's till the same thing, people just try to pretend really hard that it's not.

Well they are not for me.... and most of the women I know. We DON"T go there to be oogled or picked up.

[danceronice]

Well they are not for me.... and most of the women I know. We DON"T go there to be oogled or picked up.

Ditto. If I wanted a meat market, I'd go to one of the umpteen million bars along the street the studio is on. If I'm not working (I generally am when at a social, meaning my acceptance/refusal is more often about having to cover the desk, close out the receipts, clean up, than about whether I want to dance or not) then I want to dance. That's why I'm there.

[samina]

Well they are not for me.... and most of the women I know. We DON"T go there to be oogled or picked up.

yep. i've not known any social i've attended to be meat-markety, even past the veneer. although i've known a gentlemen or two who've brought their own agenda to the event and tried to mold it to their liking...without success.

[fascination]

a) and an unbeleivably heavy sweater, I never go to any venues without at least two shirts and a shrug...while those of us who sweat alot can't help it, we have some obligation to be considerate
b) while I have never turned a man down for a dance in my life other than if I simply do not know the dance and he isn't in the mood to teach me...I think it is alarmingly heavy handed for an owner to ask someone who says no to leave...now if the person is a habitually rude person for a longstanding variety of reasons and is resistant to a conversation on those issues, that is another matter...if the owner cares to say inform someone who was turned down that that happnes to be that person's general tendency and not to take it personally, I wouldn't have a problem with that...that is being a good host
c) I think TC has a great point about there not being nearly ask much emphasis on the etiquette of asking...I think there are many many gentlemen that are heedless of the social dynamic at a studio venue and feel no compunction to to venture out of their comfort zones...and while that is fine with me, I don't think it is any less rude than a lady being equally choosey

[fascination]

Well they are not for me.... and most of the women I know. We DON"T go there to be oogled or picked up.me neither...I go to dance and I get distinctly uncomfortable when it is clear that a man is saying and doing things that are beyond that scope...particularly b/c my marital status is quite well-known...I am fine with a polite compliment and even some intimate dancing, but when the compliment is overtly sexual and likewise with the contact, I will not seek that lead out again...I won't make a fuss about it unless it is way over the line...and I do not see that as being at all the veiled undertone at ballroom venues

[DL]

Or what about the person who "doesn't" ask you to dance when you want.... they are shunning you too!

Mind reading is follower's work.

[tsb]

No, that didn't happen, they both sat it out. Of course, had they have done this I'd have never asked them again.

then i am officially somewhat surprised that this person did what he did. but i'd still prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt; perhaps he has a history with the follows in question?

and given that the most popular usual WCS venues are bars out here (and i usually lower my expectations on dance etiquette any place alcohol is being served) such as the hacienda or skinny's etc., combined with the attitude one can encounter in the WCS crowd, i find it r-e-f-r-e-s-h-ing to discover that there would be a WCS venue that looks to improve the reputation of the WCS world. someone i consider my dance godmother put it this way: "i love west coast swing; i just don't like most of the people who dance it."

[fascination]

Mind reading is follower's work.
brave to type this without insertion of proper jovial emoticon;)

[DL]

brave to type this without insertion of proper jovial emoticon;)

I see that you knew what I meant. :)

[Purr]

Last night I was at a WCS dance that was recently started on Sundays. As I was leaving the host told me that he observed me requesting a dance from a couple of ladies who passed, they wanted to sit one out in order to rest. He told me he was concerned as he does not allow this at his dances, meaning a flat turn down unless one does so to take a breather and that he will tell anyone who does to leave and return them their money. While refusing a request for a dance is generally discouraged this is the first I've heard of anyone doing this. Is this more common than what I believe?

I've never heard of this. I'd be out of luck, because there are some dances that I prefer not to dance socially (samba, v. waltz and quickstep come to mind).

[fascination]

I see that you knew what I meant. :)
I am on alot...sometimes nuance is lost on folks whose butts aren't fused to their office chair

[Spitfire]

then i am officially somewhat surprised that this person did what he did. but i'd still prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt; perhaps he has a history with the follows in question?

and given that the most popular usual WCS venues are bars out here (and i usually lower my expectations on dance etiquette any place alcohol is being served) such as the hacienda or skinny's etc., combined with the attitude one can encounter in the WCS crowd, i find it r-e-f-r-e-s-h-ing to discover that there would be a WCS venue that looks to improve the reputation of the WCS world. someone i consider my dance godmother put it this way: "i love west coast swing; i just don't like most of the people who dance it."

He did say something about one of the ladies in question, but now I don't recall what that was, if it was a prior history of turning requests down or something else.

The more I think about it I kind of wonder just how serious he was about this, but I certainly didn't expect to be asked about being turned down and why or how.

[tsb]

He did say something about one of the ladies in question, but now I don't recall what that was, if it was a prior history of turning requests down or something else.

The more I think about it I kind of wonder just how serious he was about this, but I certainly didn't expect to be asked about being turned down and why or how.

sounds like the host was being super proactive, but why not ask him about it, assuming you go back?

it does occur to me that perhaps the lady in question has a rep for crushing newbies. i've seen it before, especially in WCS. a documentary on WCS would probably come out as a cross between "strictly ballroom" and "best of show" (the dog breeding movie) with all the idiosyncrasies you can find there. for example, when i first started frequenting strictly WCS venues such as memories on sundays back in the day, a lot of women liked my lead, but after a while, the follows who do jack & jills began blowing me off because i don't compete in jack & jills; they were trying to stack the deck by getting more dance time with all potential partners. <sigh> whatever.

[Wolfgang]

The comment that 'WCS dancers eat their young' struck a chord.....:grin:

There's an organization that more or less 'specialize' in WCS (they'll do WCS to the Star Spangled Banner or theme from Sesame Street.....) and, come to think of it, very, very few members are younger than late 40's......
Hmmm........:confused:........

[jennyisdancing]

the follows who do jack & jills began blowing me off because i don't compete in jack & jills; they were trying to stack the deck by getting more dance time with all potential partners. <sigh> whatever.

Yep, same thing happens with certain leaders who compete - some of them only will dance with potential competition partners. Oh well. I don't consider that a good reason for refusing at a social dance. WCS is far too insular but I love the dance itself, and the music, so I just try to do the best I can.

[tsb]

The comment that 'WCS dancers eat their young' struck a chord.....:grin:

There's an organization that more or less 'specialize' in WCS (they'll do WCS to the Star Spangled Banner or theme from Sesame Street.....) and, come to think of it, very, very few members are younger than late 40's......
Hmmm........:confused:........

i used to say WCS dancers are old lindy dancers who don't have the extra energy to waste anymore!

that was probably more true here 10 years ago. now there's a younger element in WCS out here, some of them are crossing over from lindy, and in general it's a lot... busier, for want of a better word; lots of hip hop styling - especially the crowd at skinny's on tuesday nights.

youth is wasted on the young IMO.

[Spitfire]

that was probably more true here 10 years ago. now there's a younger element in WCS out here, some of them are crossing over from lindy,

I've noticed this as well, and to think the lindy crowd seemed to have a very negative opinion about WCS and ballroom.

[Wolfgang]

Well, I've personally heard from several younger (20's or so) ladies who have been to lessons given by the WCS organization (not just in WCS, btw), that the reasons why they only went once and never went back was that they got the impression of being , and I quote, 'reprimanded and groped by a bunch of old men'.
End quote.

I don't know how representative of a 'sample' they are, but there does seem to be a sort of 'baby boomer only' mentality.

I'm not a fan of WCS, the lead is very difficult, especially if the lady either doesn't know what she's doing or doesn't at least 'get into' the music, the guy hardly gets to move at all (which may be the reason why they like it so much....) and if the lady isn't 'into' her lead or at least a good actress, forget it.
Ain't gonna look like it's supposed to

[jennyisdancing]

Well, I've personally heard from several younger (20's or so) ladies who have been to lessons given by the WCS organization (not just in WCS, btw), that the reasons why they only went once and never went back was that they got the impression of being , and I quote, 'reprimanded and groped by a bunch of old men'.
End quote.

I don't know how representative of a 'sample' they are, but there does seem to be a sort of 'baby boomer only' mentality.

I'm not a fan of WCS, the lead is very difficult, especially if the lady either doesn't know what she's doing or doesn't at least 'get into' the music, the guy hardly gets to move at all (which may be the reason why they like it so much....) and if the lady isn't 'into' her lead or at least a good actress, forget it.
Ain't gonna look like it's supposed to

Where I dance, there are quite a few people in their 20's, both male and female. And there are older dancers too. So I would say it depends where you go. In any case, yes, there is a higher learning curve with WCS.

The lady does need to know her part; it's not like some other dances where she could 'just follow' on a basic level without knowing anything. Has nothing to do with being 'into' the leader, nor acting. It's just a dance that needs a certain level of technical proficiency. For that reason, WCS just doesn't appeal to everyone. You'd have to be motivated to invest the time in lessons and practice.

[samina]

it's off-topic, but fwiw i've only had one lesson in WCS and definitely am not a chica who knows her "part" in the WCS game, but i've had some wonderful, wonderful dances with good & sensitive leaders. if the hands, feet, and connection are there, it's mutually wonderful. what i love about dancing WCS this way is that it's true dancing, just lead & follow, all about the connection and the music. whatever happens, happens.

of course, i've tried this with a few lesser leads, who don't have their feet under them and can't feel through their fingers, and both sides becomes wildly frustrated because he can't get me to "do what i'm supposed to do"... and i just can't feel any true connection, so nothing enjoyable happens.

[jennyisdancing]

it's off-topic, but fwiw i've only had one lesson in WCS and definitely am not a chica who knows her "part" in the WCS game, but i've had some wonderful, wonderful dances with good & sensitive leaders. if the hands, feet, and connection are there, it's mutually wonderful. what i love about dancing WCS this way is that it's true dancing, just lead & follow, all about the connection and the music. whatever happens, happens.

of course, i've tried this with a few lesser leads, who don't have their feet under them and can't feel through their fingers, and both sides becomes wildly frustrated because he can't get me to "do what i'm supposed to do"... and i just can't feel any true connection, so nothing enjoyable happens.

Off-topic, yes, but an interesting one...
Yes, I would agree that you could enjoy a WCS after one lesson in the way that you describe because I'm thinking

a) with your dance experience and following skills, you probably picked up a lot even from one lesson, more than a beginner would

b) you're capable of improvisation and musicality; this would not be true for most beginner WCS ladies

and b) an experienced leader who assesses that correctly, will adjust what he is doing - i.e. he's thinking "okay, she doesn't know a lot of WCS, but she's an excellent dancer and follower and we'll come up with fun moves that are not heavy on WCS-specific technique and steps." It takes a pretty advanced WCS leader to be able to do this and it would not normally be in the realm of a beginner leader.

[samina]

yep, i agree with everything you've said, jenny. :)

[Spitfire]

it's off-topic, but fwiw i've only had one lesson in WCS and definitely am not a chica who knows her "part" in the WCS game, but i've had some wonderful, wonderful dances with good & sensitive leaders. if the hands, feet, and connection are there, it's mutually wonderful. what i love about dancing WCS this way is that it's true dancing, just lead & follow, all about the connection and the music. whatever happens, happens.

Reminds me of when I went to my first WCS classes five years ago and while I didn't know very much I had a blast dancing it, everything somehow seemed right on.

Samina, it'd be a pleasure to have a dance with you. U2 Jenny :mrgreen:

[tsb]

Off-topic, yes, but an interesting one...
Yes, I would agree that you could enjoy a WCS after one lesson in the way that you describe because I'm thinking

a) with your dance experience and following skills, you probably picked up a lot even from one lesson, more than a beginner would

b) you're capable of improvisation and musicality; this would not be true for most beginner WCS ladies

and b) an experienced leader who assesses that correctly, will adjust what he is doing - i.e. he's thinking "okay, she doesn't know a lot of WCS, but she's an excellent dancer and follower and we'll come up with fun moves that are not heavy on WCS-specific technique and steps." It takes a pretty advanced WCS leader to be able to do this and it would not normally be in the realm of a beginner leader.


IMO, the use of triple steps in WCS is not intuitive, and it seems to me that when a follow has no idea of when to syncopate, a lead's ability to choose WCS figures that can be done smoothly is severely limited. while some coaster steps can be led (such as within a whip), one missed triple step (traveling or anchoring) means that the follow is subsequently on the wrong foot - until another triple step is missed - and i don't think too many leads can get past the follow consistently having her weight on the wrong foot.

personally, i've danced with too many women who think that they can fake WCS when they don't know it, so i seldom ask a stranger to dance WCS at a ballroom venue unless i've already seen her dancing WCS with someone else. OTOH, if i know that she's a good WCS follow, i have no hesitation to ask her to dance anything else, except maybe argentine tango.

[Easy]

Seems a bit much to me. If someone doesn't want to dance with someone at my studio, I feel it's their right to accept or not accept an invitation to dance. Being polite about it is key though. If somebody comes just dance with certain people, it's a big bummer, but it's their choice --they'd better be able to handle the same medicine :)

[Wolfgang]

I guess you might say I do 2 different 'levels' of WCS.
When I'm dancing with someone who actually knows what she's doing, I stick to the rules, do the triple steps, etc.
When the opportunity arises to dance WCS with any of the remaining 98%, I try to make it as much fun as I can, forget the triple steps, just keep time and the rythm.

[Easy]

Ha ha my last post was based upon reading the first post. I skipped directly to my reply.

Come back today to check it out, and I see I blew way past the OTWCS. Wow that'd be a great five letter game entry :)

I'm way behind the times with my WCS. I'm still pretty much an old ballroom scholl type WCSer. Dancing with people who don't know the West Coast Swing often turns to a mutation --usually a good one. Becasue of my partner's errant moves, it might become hustly for a while till we can sync again. Basically what I'm saying is...their lemons I always try to turn into lemonade with connection, awareness, and musicality.

[tsb]

I guess you might say I do 2 different 'levels' of WCS.
When I'm dancing with someone who actually knows what she's doing, I stick to the rules, do the triple steps, etc.
When the opportunity arises to dance WCS with any of the remaining 98%, I try to make it as much fun as I can, forget the triple steps, just keep time and the rythm.

that kind of attitude certainly embodies the ideal of trying to be the best partner possible at all times, to which all social dancers should aspire. but it's supposed to go both ways, isn't it?

the thing is that in the past when i asked people to dance WCS, i used to try and make it clear that if they didn't know WCS, that i would be happy to dance something else with them later in the evening. maybe they thought i was kidding or something, but they'd say yes anyway - and it'd be a train wreck - i'm talking vulcan death grips on the hands, no idea of the basic footwork, etc. the end result was that i found myself feeling somehow insignificant. and nobody likes feeling that way.

[taylor1990]

I think this is a little much. Besides, sometimes a person might have good reason for sitting out. One time, I was at a dance and I had made an unfortunate choice in clothing. I wore a dress that basically didn't let me lift my arms. Everytime a guy went to turn me, I had to bend down. It felt like limbo! I started asking guys not to turn me, but it got to the point where I was feelng very uncomfortable and I also felt bad for them! I started refusing to dance with the guys. I probably offended a few of them, but I really didn't mean to and I had been a good sport about it for most of the night.

[nucat78]

Seems a bit much to me. If someone doesn't want to dance with someone at my studio, I feel it's their right to accept or not accept an invitation to dance. Being polite about it is key though. If somebody comes just dance with certain people, it's a big bummer, but it's their choice --they'd better be able to handle the same medicine :)

It's occasionally announced at our socials that refusals are "not allowed". But that's not enforced and meant as a not-so-subtle hint that people should dance if at all possible.

We still have a number of women who sit and a few leads who prefer not to dance certain dances. Ironically, last week it was ladies' turn to ask for dances and about 4-5 women still sat out. Suited me - I got to sit a couple out instead of dancing all of them like I usually do. Guess they don't love me as much as I thought they did or maybe they were ticked b/c I usually dance 3 with M. for every 1 I dance with somebody else. Meh.

There have been a couple of cases where the owner talked to guys about whom women had complained were too rough or aggressive in their leads.

[etp777]

No merengue or samba!!

:)

[Spitfire]

How about this - The former owner of the Tucson studio where I did most of my dancing would call out your name if you were not dancing and point to someone else who wasn't as a demand for you to dance with that person, all with a stern look on her face. Along with a poor attitude and other rude conduct is it any wonder she was out within a year's time.

[SPratt74]

I had to leave a guy on the dance floor a couple of weeks ago at our social party. I didn't refuse to dance with him, but I did refuse to "keep" dancing with him. He was trying to teach me on the dance floor. I asked him how long he'd been dancing, and he said one year, and I could tell it wasn't even one year. He was not a good leader, and I know I'm not the only follower that thought this. I was actually offended by him, because I wondered if he thought he could get away with pushing me around. I let him guide me through the first dance, but I said thank you and goodbye and left him on the dance floor during the second dance. I couldn't take him any more. He was rude, and did not know what he was doing. And yes, I will say no to him in the future. Funny thing was that he danced with my instructors wife, and I could tell by her expressions that she was not all that pleased with him. I had to chuckle a bit over that one lol. I'm also going to talk to my instructor this week about it to see what he says how I handled it, but I was mad though. Well, he didn't come by our table again, and I must say that the women were more than ok with that lol.

[etp777]

hahah spitfire, owner of one of studios calls me out if she sees me sitting out a dance, but we're friends and she can get away with it. :) Doesn't do it to everyone, pretty much just me. :P

[Easy]

It's occasionally announced at our socials that refusals are "not allowed". But that's not enforced and meant as a not-so-subtle hint that people should dance if at all possible.

We still have a number of women who sit and a few leads who prefer not to dance certain dances. Ironically, last week it was ladies' turn to ask for dances and about 4-5 women still sat out. Suited me - I got to sit a couple out instead of dancing all of them like I usually do. Guess they don't love me as much as I thought they did or maybe they were ticked b/c I usually dance 3 with M. for every 1 I dance with somebody else. Meh.

There have been a couple of cases where the owner talked to guys about whom women had complained were too rough or aggressive in their leads.

He he. Glad you got a breather. I'm always trying to encourage everyone to dance with everyone, but I'm not going to insist on it. You kinda get all kinds, and I wouldn't blame some for not dancing with vertain people. As long as everyone's courteous and respectful, it's cool with me. last year, I had to ask a groper to leave:mad:

Hope all is well with you nucat.

[nucat78]

He he. Glad you got a breather. I'm always trying to encourage everyone to dance with everyone, but I'm not going to insist on it. You kinda get all kinds, and I wouldn't blame some for not dancing with certain people. As long as everyone's courteous and respectful, it's cool with me. last year, I had to ask a groper to leave:mad:

Hope all is well with you nucat.

You let fish into your studio? Oh! A groper, not a grouper. Got it!

I'm good, thanks! About to embark on a new job search in a couple of weeks as my position is being eliminated due to budget "issues" here. Ah well, more free time to dance...

<BOT> Calling people out can be a positive thing, especially if they're shy. They can always say "the teacher made me do it" and it might give them the nudge to start asking for dances.

[fascination]

this is a tough one for me...b/c I used to get over my shyness and ask anyone to dance b/c if dh wasn't with me I didn't want to warm the bench all night...but it really seems to me that alot of the men are with their wives and really don't feel comfortable accepting nor do they ask...and others seem to be so riddled with worry about messing it up that they start with a look of dread when I ask and remain freaked out the rest of the time.....so it seems like the best thing to do is just sit there and let those who are interested come to me....which consists of about a handful of men to whom I am most grateful who don't fall into any one category or another, maybe more of the single men, but in terms of level of dance...all over the place...shrug...still, I really feel as though I am imposing when I ask unless it is among that rather small subset of attendees...I think every social setting has it's own tone

[samina]

He he. Glad you got a breather. I'm always trying to encourage everyone to dance with everyone, but I'm not going to insist on it. You kinda get all kinds, and I wouldn't blame some for not dancing with vertain people. As long as everyone's courteous and respectful, it's cool with me. last year, I had to ask a groper to leave:mad:

Hope all is well with you nucat.

hi easy! *waving* :)

[Easy]

*waving back* He He Sammy

"they start with a look of dread when i ask and remain freaked out the rest of the time" This made me laugh Fasc --especially the freaked out part :p

Goodluck nucat. I hope you find something that you like to supplement the income as well as your life and leisure :D

[tsb]

How about this - The former owner of the Tucson studio where I did most of my dancing would call out your name if you were not dancing and point to someone else who wasn't as a demand for you to dance with that person, all with a stern look on her face. Along with a poor attitude and other rude conduct is it any wonder she was out within a year's time.

that's pretty funny. for the most part, dancers here have multiple choices on any given night, and i can think of at least two examples (one in ballroom and one in swing) where the personality of the person running the venue is a primary reason their event is not that well attended.

[QPO]

Interesting, we don't have that here at all unless it is done at a franchise studio, which we don't go to. Everything here is voluntary..may not always work out either, we always have way more women than men at socials, but some of the places they say it is not their responsibility to find you a partner you need to organise your own.