Need help with Nikon D90 settings for quickstep

[Chris Stratton]

Limited lighting in the Blackpool winter gardens and long distances for the power of built in flash units make photography here challenging. One of the dancers has a Nikon D90 that he lent me to try instead of my pocket camera, but we're still getting motion blurring and its new enough that he doesn't have much experience with it either. On my little panasonic, I can set a minimum shutter speed and force it to up the effective ISO, but the Nikon won't allow that setting to be changed without taking it out of auto mode.

My question is, if I want to try this, any suggestions for what mode and manual settings I should put it in?

[Laura]

I'm using a Nikon D60 but my lens is "slow" meaning its maximum aperture is only f5.6, so I am also having (even bigger) problems. I've got my camera on M (manual), have the f-stop opened as far as it will go (as low as it will go) and keep playing with the shutter speed. You need to get the shutter speed as fast as you can without the pictures getting too dark again.

[ireniecat]

If your images end up being too dark, you could always just adjust them later in Photoshop. You can set up an automated action, so you just let it run and go get some lunch :)

[Chiron]

I use a D80 but I use a 'fast' lense (f1.8). I would say try switching the camera to 'A' mode (apperature prioty) turn the f-stop all the way down (should be one of the two nobs on the left top) and see how your results are. With the D80 I can usually push to iso up to 1000 (I forget how to change this off the top of my head but you can definately do it under the menu) without much quality loss. Try a couple shots with that setting and see how fast the shutter goes. If not try bumping your iso up even higher (I've heard the D90 does better than the D80 there).

Last time I shot ballroom my settings were:
'M' manual mode (I would use 'A' to get close to my settings then fix them)
f/1.8 (as low as I could go)
shutter 1/80
exposure bias: -2/3 (make things look right on my camera)
iso 1000 (as high as I could go w/o quality loss)

I hope this helps

[Chiron]

If your images end up being too dark, you could always just adjust them later in Photoshop. You can set up an automated action, so you just let it run and go get some lunch :)

If you have plenty of storage space it might be worth saving the photos in RAW and JPG format. The RAW format is easier to adjust the lighting on later.

[Chris Stratton]

Thanks for the ideas. I think the lens is limited to f/5.6.

What does aperture priority do? Exposure bias?

I was hoping to set a minimum shutter and have it pick the iso needed given the lighting conditions, but could just try setting it on 1000. The panasonic was doing 1600 a lot of the time, with the expected results...

I plan to try adjusting some of the pictures when I get home, but don't have that capability on my tiny travel laptop.

[3wishes]

Chris, if the shutter is slow to capture you need to crank up the iso speed. Some cameras go to iso speed 3200. A lot are set on automode. Set the camera on manual, check shutter priority, aperture priority or scene mode for your manual operation. Doubling the iso speed doubles the light sensitivity. The shutter speed automatically drops due to low light. Experiment with the iso but remember also the higher the iso the more grain in the picture. Good luck!

[ireniecat]

If you have plenty of storage space it might be worth saving the photos in RAW and JPG format. The RAW format is easier to adjust the lighting on later.

And by "plenty" that means get an external drive for those RAW images :D
But, yes, they are much better for adjustments than JPEGs. Then again, it depends on what you want to use them for later... I've gotten great prints from adjusting just regular point and shoot JPEGs :)

[Chris Stratton]

There's a minimum shutter speed setting on both cameras; on the nikon I think that becomes available if I put it in one of the manual modes - it was grayed out in the default auto mode. I was hoping that would then force it to choose the necessary iso?

[3wishes]

Typically if you select the iso in manual settings the aperture will change. Check and see if the manual mode offers something like a sports mode

[Chiron]

Aperture priority fixes how wide the aperture on the camera is. A wider aperture means more light gets in and the depth of field (what is in focus) narrows. The camera will then adjust the shutter speed to get the lighting correct. Dropping the f-stop all the way down should give you as fast of shutter speed as you can get.

Exposure bias (that +/- button on the camera) tells the camera how much to under expose or over expose the picture before it converts it into a JPG. Different camera behave a little different with different settings, it is one way to adjust the picture show it looks right.

I think on the D90 you might be able to get pretty decent results with iso of 1600. If I remember correctly I think you can push the iso up 6400 but the results aren't great but may still be usable, try it and see.

And yeah by plenty I do mean external storage or at least a laptop w/ plenty of space. Nikons do tend to do pretty well with their JPG encoding so it's not a big deal.

[biggestbox]

i usually shoot 1/320 for dance. you can go slower but it takes more skill.

Pump the iso and lower f-stop so you can get decent exposure.

I use a 70-200 f2.8 but other lens are fine.

warming filter is nice on the flash for those gyms

[White Chacha]

He's unlikely to get 1/320th with a 5.6 lens.

My best advice is to set the camera in aperture priority, crank up the ISO to the highest the camera will do, fix the lens at the widest aperture, and see what that gets you. Without a faster lens, you're not going to do any better than that.

Best of luck!

[Chris Stratton]

I think I may have misread what the lens said on it, hopefully it will do a larger aperature - have to see when I pick it up again tomorrow morning.

Using a higher ISO setting than needed is going to make it noisy, right?

A fair number of the 1/60th pictures come out okay - I don't think I'll need to get it above 1/125th, but it would be nice to get away from my initial solution which was taking pictures only of the lines.

[biggestbox]

buy a 50 f 1.8

you should anyways with such a nice d 90, why use a 5.6 lens?

[Chris Stratton]

It's not my camera... the owner, who was dancing, handed it to me an hour before the event.

[Chris Stratton]

This is the lens: Nikon 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6, apparently pretty standard packaged with a D90

So I take it that will go to f/3.5 ? if so that seems the most obvious path to improvement, the exif seems to be saying todays shots were f/5.6

[etp777]

That's certainly how it reads to me, Chris.

[SDsalsaguy]

This is the lens: Nikon 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6, apparently pretty standard packaged with a D90

So I take it that will go to f/3.5 ? if so that seems the most obvious path to improvement, the exif seems to be saying todays shots were f/5.6
It can open up to f/3.5 at 18mm but can only open to f/5.6 at 105mm. In other words the more of the zoom range you use, the less wide open, so the more you'll have to make adjustments elsewhere (i.e. iso and/or shutter speed).

[Chris Stratton]

It can open up to f/3.5 at 18mm but can only open to f/5.6 at 105mm. In other words the more of the zoom range you use, the less wide open, so the more you'll have to make adjustments elsewhere (i.e. iso and/or shutter speed).

Oh.... and I'm pretty much at maximum zoom, or a tiny bit less when they are at my end of the floor. So much for that idea.

Guess I could try one dance from floor level, but don't know that I'll get a clear view.

[Laura]

Chris, if the shutter is slow to capture you need to crank up the iso speed.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that, I've got my ISO set at 1600.

[Laura]

i usually shoot 1/320 for dance. you can go slower but it takes more skill.
I've been having to shoot at 1/50 which leads to some interesting results. I need to get a faster lens if I'm going to do this again next year. See, usually I just photograph landscapes, which (a) don't move and (b) are brightly lit so I have no need of anything other than the standard f/5.6 lens that came with my Nikon!

[Laura]

Guess I could try one dance from floor level, but don't know that I'll get a clear view.
Also try shooting from different spots around the floor. I found that my location matters a lot as it how people are lit. I've been sticking my photos on Facebook, and a very very few on my blog (onereaderperblog.blogspot.com). The photos aren't great but I'm having fun!

[Chris Stratton]

Yes, it really helps when a spotlight hits the couple you are trying to take a picture of... no spotlights in the first qualifying round though.

With the panasonic I would basically track the couple through a movement and wait for it to resolve into a line, then snap the picture - when I got it right those came out cleaner, but I end up feeling like I took the same 4 pictures 500 times each, so it would be nice to be able to do better on the moving passages in between.

I generally like the 1st balcony corners - the stage side you can get the whole floor*, but the audience side is nice because you can get the stage or some judges as a backdrop, to make it more than just another random dance pic.

(*there's a steel video balcony hung off the front of the main balcony, so any shot of the near side of the floor tends to get the railing of that if not equipment or people partially obstructing it)

[Chris Stratton]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that, I've got my ISO set at 1600.

think I will try that in the morning then

[Laura]

think I will try that in the morning then
The guy sitting next to me upstairs is from South Africa and has a Nikon D90 also...and he's got the Nikor 70-300 which is f/4.5 at 300. His wife just points the camera at the floor and gets well-lit pictures that aren't blurry due to shutter speed. I asked him about the lens and he said "I love it, I use it for photographing big game at home."

Must get to South Africa some day!! (Swaziland, which is right there too, is on my list of places ending in -LAND in English that I have not yet been to.)

[White Chacha]

The guy sitting next to me upstairs is from South Africa and has a Nikon D90 also...and he's got the Nikor 70-300 which is f/4.5 at 300. His wife just points the camera at the floor and gets well-lit pictures that aren't blurry due to shutter speed. I asked him about the lens and he said "I love it, I use it for photographing big game at home."
...


She must have dynamically stabilized hands! It's true that their lens is 1 stop faster at the long end but that's not enough. And I'd caution that photos look sharper on the preview screen than they will when viewed larger.

The people who do this sort of photography for a living have the same expensive lenses that sports photographers use.

Shooting from a position which has the couple moving toward or away from you can help get sharper images. If you're standing perpendicular to the movement, you can try panning the camera with the couple and releasing the shutter while you continue to move
the camera. This can, if done well, produce a sharp image of the couple against a blurry background.

[3wishes]

Hey Chris, you could also do "special effects" style of shots if the shutter stays open. I know it's not what your aiming for, but panning a quickstep shot might make an awesome "sports" related picture. (-: - steady hand required - and it will look like they streamed through the view leaving a trail "panning". It's one way to get some shots if you can't get other shots to work out. I pretty much think if you get the ISO speed to where it accepts the conditions you'll be fine.

[3wishes]

Chris, even if you set the ISO to 3200 YES - 3200 your pics will print with very little gain noise. The camera will go to 3200 ISO speed. Test it out between 1600 and 3200.

[Laura]

Shooting from a position which has the couple moving toward or away from you can help get sharper images.
Yep, that's exactly where we are, in the middle of the short wall, so she gets people as they are coming toward us on the long wall.

The camera will go to 3200 ISO speed. Test it out between 1600 and 3200.
I think my D60 goes to 3200 too. I'll try it tonight and see how it works out.

[Chris Stratton]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Camera's owner is done dancing so it's back in his hands now. Battery did not get charged last night so I didn't have a lot of time to experiment before the dances, and ended up very close to yesterdays but somehow managed to get it to 1/80th second minimum. Have to see when I get a larger monitor if that was any better - no red dresses on US ams this time, so that trouble case (red seemed to be the worst color for my own camera) was not a factor.

[Laura]

Tonight I shot from the balcony for the first time, and was able to get my shutter speed up to 1/125 (1/50 had been my previous fastest from the floor) without things looking too dark. We'll see how the pictures look once I get them on my laptop....