Does the lead come from the abdomen? [Archive]

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revolution

06-09-2009, 11:04 AM

Ampster

06-09-2009, 11:16 AM

Hi folks,

Does the lead come from the abdomen? Attending tango classes and we are focusing on disassociation. It appears by dissociating the follower mirrors the movement, for example leading a cross.

cheers,
rev

The lead comes from the chest, (a.k.a. "center"). It's the area in and around the solar plexeus. In other words its the upper chest area that is directly in contact between you and your partner.

This is where the follower gets the lead "intentions" from. You use dissociation by allowing the lower half of your body to pre position itself, before your upper body initiates the "intention" (lead), then commits to it.

hbboogie1

06-09-2009, 11:38 AM

opendoor

06-09-2009, 11:59 AM

.. Does the lead come from the abdomen?

Hi rev, once I posted something similar
http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=31777

The longer I dance the deeper my lead is sliding. It startet in my head, stayed some years in my chest and has now reached an area the TaiChi people call DanTien. The reason for this is that I have changed the position of hip and spine. Watch f.i Marcelo Almirón in vid BTA posted 2 hours ago http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=32827 His lead is very low ! As if he is crawling under Maria Solero.

Ampster

06-09-2009, 01:21 PM

HAHAHAHA...I agree with you but I have a friend el Trompo (the Top) who definetly leads from the belly he often leads with one hand or no hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgHYnauVzqM&feature=related

:lol: I also have a friend who leads with his belly (abdomen). He calls it "Tummy leads." He does this only because his belly is so much bigger than his chest. And since the belly can only impart so much "Intention," he does have to resort to using his arms a bit.

kieronneedscake

06-09-2009, 01:27 PM

For my part, I adjust the centre of my lead up and down to suit the height of my partner.

With the tallest partners, it feels like I have to operate from the top of my sternum. It's not as easy close embrace because I don't have any fleshy/muscular bits to use up there, just bone.

Shorties get it from belly height.

06-09-2009, 01:37 PM

I love belly leads! I keep telling my partner to work on his milonguero figure and he just gives me this dirty look.

hbboogie1

06-09-2009, 01:56 PM

I love belly leads! I keep telling my partner to work on his milonguero figure and he just gives me this dirty look.

When God took the rib from Adam to make Eve it was the rib that held in the belly so thanks a lot lady’s we have you to thank for our wonderful figures.

Angel HI

06-10-2009, 01:07 AM

The lead comes from the chest, (a.k.a. "center"). It's the area in and around the solar plexeus. In other words its the upper chest area that is directly in contact between you and your partner.

This is where the follower gets the lead "intentions" from. You use dissociation by allowing the lower half of your body to pre position itself, before your upper body initiates the "intention" (lead), then commits to it.This is a really good post. I get irritated a lot when persons just spout out the canned reply, "Lead from the chest." b/c we really don't. Just fixed this last week when a dancer was trying to lead from his chest b/c that's all he has ever heard.

We lead from center projected upward through the solar plexus (lower chest). Yes, often the upper chest is what we feel, but we never really push from there. It is, as Amps said nicely, just below that that the "intention" is emanated from. it is then directed/controlled in the embrace.
I love belly leads! I keep telling my partner to work on his milonguero figure and he just gives me this dirty look. Here's another one... }: {

Zoopsia59

06-10-2009, 11:23 AM

we have you to thank for our wonderful figures.

We can also curdle milk and cause ships to sink...

We are ALL POWERFUL!
Mwa HA Ha!!!!!! :twisted:

I am Woman, hear me roar!

06-10-2009, 12:54 PM

Here's another one... }: {

Awww... why the face? As hbboogie1 most astutely pointed out, Eve did give us ladies the gift of the man's milonguero physique. The apple given to Adam in return, after all, was only a ruse... it was always about the tango.

"Thanks for the rib. Here, have an apple." Isn't that the way it went? Oh, wait a minute...

newbie

06-13-2009, 09:55 AM

Hi folks,

Does the lead come from the abdomen?

Yes it does. I know because I lead from the torso (the blame for this is entirely on my teachers. Lead with the chest, they say.) and as a result I cannot lead a short follower, while most leaders can.

Angel HI

06-14-2009, 12:32 PM

^ Reread the first part of this. It might help. http://www.dance-forums.com/showpost.php?p=700526&postcount=9

bordertangoman

06-16-2009, 04:19 AM

I would differentiate about where you you physically connect with the woman,
where your intention comes from;

If you are grounded then it comes through your centre (dan tien as referred to above).
this is more important for dancing milonguero than salon style.

The connection I always work with is the "tango heart". if your connection and intention is coming from the heart then you are more likely to get a "connection" which is more than the merely physical. I envision this as the the heart chakra as its more in the centre line of the chest.

In milonga this has an effect of freeing up the shoulders to do other little flirtatious movements- part of the fun without them becoming leads.

Leading any kind of turn, has, IMO, to come from a rotation of the chest.

Angel HI

06-17-2009, 02:35 AM

I would differentiate about where you you physically connect with the woman, where your intention comes from;

If you are grounded then it comes through your centre (dan tien as referred to above).

The connection I always work with is the "tango heart". if your connection and intention is coming from the heart then you are more likely to get a "connection" which is more than the merely physical. I envision this as the the heart chakra as its more in the centre line of the chest.I agree w/ this part of the post. Well said.

borisvian13

06-21-2009, 08:48 PM

I think it's quite crucial to perceive the lead as coming from abdomen especially while leading crossed steps with pivot ( as in an ocho with a lot of pivot, for example). As a matter fact I can't imagine an ocho being led otherwise. In the ocho ( in my modest opinion) the torsion (which happens in abdominal muscles) initially is in the lead's body, and the follower simply amplifies this torsion, in a resonance, so to speak. Of course, the chest is communicates the lead.

To newbie: I've always appreciated your sense of humor. But in this case I think there are deeper reasons why dancing with partners with big height difference is always problematic. One of them is that the dynamics of movement is different in short and tall people.
So some leaders do that better than others, but do they really enjoy it as much as dancing with people of approximately their size?:)
If I remember right, I heard Oscar Casas saying in one of his videos that he would dance with a partner with big height difference only if it's really necessary...

dchester

06-22-2009, 10:21 AM

I think there are deeper reasons why dancing with partners with big height difference is always problematic. One of them is that the dynamics of movement is different in short and tall people.
So some leaders do that better than others, but do they really enjoy it as much as dancing with people of approximately their size?:)
If I remember right, I heard Oscar Casas saying in one of his videos that he would dance with a partner with big height difference only if it's really necessary...
Thus far, the only real problem I've found in dancing with someone much shorter than me, is that we can't dance cheek to cheek. Other than that, I just take shorter steps, and use more care (a lighter touch) in my leads.

Mladenac

06-22-2009, 11:06 AM

when dancing with significant height difference, higher partner i more vertical.

I am 6'2" so i learned that lesson :D