How do you do more body action??

[syi]

So I've been doing Pro/Am open Latin for a few years now and I'm starting to feel real comfortable with my dancing UNTIL it all came crashing down when I saw my video from the Manhattan comp. It wasn't terrible. I came 3rd out of a quarter. I'm also lucky to have a great Pro who makes it look real easy. But I feel this is the next level for me. I have a good feel from the rhythm and my feet are patting away like the beats of the drum and I'm really feeling it. I like to think I have good feet and legs but that's where it ends. I'm like a Mr. Potato Head, a stiff body with all the action happening in my little arms and legs. No body action and hardly any rotation. I've been told many times to use more body, more rotation, more contra body, high hip, low hip, etc. "You're feet are the rhythm and your body is the melody." I understand all this completely but when it comes down to it, I'm still not doing it.

Is body action developed through years of experience or is this truly fundamental? Is there another way to visualize this? Maybe I just need to be told a different way. Are there simple exercises to develop this? Body action and arm styling were never a priority in my years of training and I'm very blessed to have a coach that drilled me into developing great feet and legs but I think I need to now develop the whole package. Which brings up another question. How many of you learned from the bottom up (feet and legs, then body) or top down (body then feet and legs)?

Can some help this poor, stiff, Mr. Potato Head, become a great Latin dancer?

Thanks!
Steve

[samina]

3rd out of a quarter is excellent! welcome to DF, steve. am looking forward to hearing what answers you get

[and123]

Have you trained with many coaches besides your Pro? Heaven knows Boston is loaded with talented instructors, plus periodically other world-known coaches give lessons at various studios in the area.

Sometimes all it takes is someone else besides your main coach telling you something in a slightly different way, and it "clicks".

[latingal]

Is body action developed through years of experience or is this truly fundamental?

Both. It's fundamental to the movement in latin dancing, but it can take years to develop.

Not only do your feet and legs have to be working correctly, but your center/core and upper body have much work to do in opposition, rotation and compression in the body.

How many of you learned from the bottom up (feet and legs, then body) or top down (body then feet and legs)?

For me, it's not quite so black and white...I ended up learning legs and feet basics first, but then with very little delay learned about the body and how it works with the legs and feet correctly. Then both subjects were advanced together (of course with concentration in one or the other depending on what was weakest etc), but in the end I don't separate them because they impact each other to such a great degree.

[chica latina]

How many of you learned from the bottom up (feet and legs, then body) or top down (body then feet and legs)?


I also was trained from the bottom up, but always got emphasized to have my body relaxed so it will react to what is happening down there. Then when it got too wild, was told about control... but I'm still in the process of making it all the way to my upper back and arms consistently..

Good luck!

[Larinda McRaven]

Can some help this poor, stiff, Mr. Potato Head, become a great Latin dancer?

Thanks!
Steve

lol.

[canismajor41]

How many of you learned from the bottom up (feet and legs, then body) or top down (body then feet and legs)?


I started with footwork (to learn the steps), then hips (figure 8, cuban motion), then rib cage, then back down to hips in order to learn how to synchronize that movement with the rib cage, then upper thighs and leg movement, then back down to feet again. I'm sure I'll be working my way up and down the body as long as I'm dancing....it's a never-ending journey...

[dTas]

body action also has a lot to do with posture. the better the posture the better the core is engaged and the better actions/reactions your body has to movement.

syi... what kind of body action are you looking for?

[syi]

Have you trained with many coaches besides your Pro? Heaven knows Boston is loaded with talented instructors, plus periodically other world-known coaches give lessons at various studios in the area.

Sometimes all it takes is someone else besides your main coach telling you something in a slightly different way, and it "clicks".

Thanks for the reply! Every once in a while, I have been very fortunate to have coaching lessons with great icons like Allan Tornsberg, Colin James, Eugene Katsevman, Max Kozhenikov, Stefano Di Fillipo and the list goes on. But not one of them mentioned body action. I guess at that time there more dire things to work on than my frankenstein moves. I also think they teach more at a high level such as musicality, story-line, man-woman, etc. Maybe I need a good butt-kick'n Russian-style. I don't know.

Definitely and123. I'm so waiting for that "it clicks" as it did for me rhythm-wise.

[syi]

I also was trained from the bottom up, but always got emphasized to have my body relaxed so it will react to what is happening down there. Then when it got too wild, was told about control... but I'm still in the process of making it all the way to my upper back and arms consistently..

Good luck!

Interesting. What do you do or think about when you try to control it? Do you specifically work on your upper back and arms?

I have seen it both ways. Bottom-up trained dancers like myself focus more on technique but look more stiff. Top-down trained dancers seem to focus more on performance but look more sloppy and messy. Neither one is more correct than the other but it's certainly interesting to see the outcome.

[syi]

body action also has a lot to do with posture. the better the posture the better the core is engaged and the better actions/reactions your body has to movement.

syi... what kind of body action are you looking for?

Yes. Posture is certainly key and I hoping I do have decent posture. I guess I'm looking for smoother transition from one step to another. Everything seems to stop short without any fluidity especially in the faster dances (ChaCha/Samba). It's very flat and 2-dimensional. I seem to do real well in Paso and Jive which kinda makes sense to me since it allows me to have my body disconnected with my arms. I like Paso and Jive. :)

[fascination]

I will not lay claim to great latin skill although this year has shown marked improvement, and I will say that I am recently learning that I am actually inhibiting what should be happening in my back, not b/c I am am doing the stuff below the waist wrong...but b/c I am too tense...just something else to throw in the mix...as it is making a difference

[samina]

I'm also no great one WRT latin movement, but my primary emphasis on anything having to do with movement is now all about increasing ease and doing everything without tension...and it's a huge subject, I could yammer on it long after most people's butts get numb from listening, lol.

I 2nd fasc's pointing out that tension is a potent inhibitor of natural movement...

[chica latina]

Interesting. What do you do or think about when you try to control it? Do you specifically work on your upper back and arms?


Recently I've been trying to focus on doing one of the routines in super slow motion, which requires more control...
In slow motion you become more aware of feet/weight transfer/leg action/hip/back/finishing in 3-dimensional and making sure arms were connected to the back movement (i think in that order) in every step...

I'm still trying to figure it out what my arms are doing...

do you think you are not flexible in your back or just forget to use it or has not been the focus yet? maybe you are doing much better than you think...

[syi]

I'm also no great one WRT latin movement, but my primary emphasis on anything having to do with movement is now all about increasing ease and doing everything without tension...and it's a huge subject, I could yammer on it long after most people's butts get numb from listening, lol.

I 2nd fasc's pointing out that tension is a potent inhibitor of natural movement...

Ahh yes. Tension is my mortal enemy. It's so hard to release that when you're competing and you're trying to give it your all. Where's that balance? If you relax too much, you look weak and lazy. If you bang it out too much, you look tense up and look stiff and awkward. Ugh. It's so complicated.

[latingal]

it is definitely one of my journeys in dancing, learning to use only the muscles needed and at the minimum amount needed for the task at hand.

[syi]

Recently I've been trying to focus on doing one of the routines in super slow motion, which requires more control...
In slow motion you become more aware of feet/weight transfer/leg action/hip/back/finishing in 3-dimensional and making sure arms were connected to the back movement (i think in that order) in every step...

I'm still trying to figure it out what my arms are doing...

do you think you are not flexible in your back or just forget to use it or has not been the focus yet? maybe you are doing much better than you think...

Body action has definitely not been the focus. I don't compete as much as I used to and I start training with my pro for pro/am comps a few weeks before competition so I only have time to just run through the routines. But now I want to really focus and take it to the next level.

I just saw a post on arm styling and someone mentioned a pretty good method. Copy a pro verbatim and try to make it your own later on. I am not a natural dancer so I do need things spelled out and shown exactly how it is. That's how juniors learn. I guess I'm just an old kid.

I also think you're on to something. I may just need a period of training to do routines to slow music and really concentrate on the body actions.

Thanks!

[dTas]

Yes. Posture is certainly key and I hoping I do have decent posture. I guess I'm looking for smoother transition from one step to another. Everything seems to stop short without any fluidity especially in the faster dances (ChaCha/Samba). It's very flat and 2-dimensional. I seem to do real well in Paso and Jive which kinda makes sense to me since it allows me to have my body disconnected with my arms. I like Paso and Jive. :)

just like Facination said... dance your back. do you dance your back?

[samina]

Ahh yes. Tension is my mortal enemy. It's so hard to release that when you're competing and you're trying to give it your all. Where's that balance? If you relax too much, you look weak and lazy. If you bang it out too much, you look tense up and look stiff and awkward. Ugh. It's so complicated.
It *is* complicated, undoing patterns of tension and the replacing of the use of force to move with use of natural forces. IME, it's got to be undone/re-learned *off* the dance floor until a new way of moving with ease becomes natural. Because one can't do in competition or on the dance floor what one cannot do in real life off the floor. It's complex because we have a lifetime of patterns using force, which causes the resistance of tension. And deeply entrenched patterns are famously challenging to undo. Requires more paying attention and willingness to change than most people want to bother with.

The benefit of youth...potentially being freer of those long-held patterns and thus freer in movement... *sigh*

[latingal]

IME, it's got to be undone/re-learned *off* the dance floor until a new way of moving with ease becomes natural. Because one can't do in competition or on the dance floor what one cannot do in real life off the floor.

Actually, I have had a different experience with this. For example, in dancing sometimes tension in some parts of the body (say the shoulders or upper torso) is a reaction to the "improper" or over use of muscles in the feet or ankles. Yet, most who experience this can walk down the street just fine without tension in their feet or upper body.

I think there is some component of tension that is brought in to dancing through the body's current physical state (ie. samina's comment) and some that can be brought in through improper or lack of technique.

[samina]

... a reaction to the "improper" or over use of muscles in the feet or ankles...

I think there is some component of tension that is brought in to dancing through the body's current physical state (ie. samina's comment) and some that can be brought in through improper or lack of technique.

it sounds like we may be saying the same thing, only as a matter of degree, because your description would also eloquently apply to the cause of tension in general -- an improper or over use of muscles in the management of weight distribution, movement, and balance. i use improved technique/efficient use of natural forces to correct these errors.

for someone like myself who has had just so much tension and improper usage to diagnose and cure, undoing tension is a complex matter. but for someone with less tension, more dance experience, or more youth, the error may not be layered over so many problems and be thus easier to identify as a simple shift in use of feet or ankles or improved technique.

[dlgodud]

Thanks for the reply! Every once in a while, I have been very fortunate to have coaching lessons with great icons like Allan Tornsberg, Colin James, Eugene Katsevman, Max Kozhenikov, Stefano Di Fillipo and the list goes on. But not one of them mentioned body action. I guess at that time there more dire things to work on than my frankenstein moves. I also think they teach more at a high level such as musicality, story-line, man-woman, etc. Maybe I need a good butt-kick'n Russian-style. I don't know.

Definitely and123. I'm so waiting for that "it clicks" as it did for me rhythm-wise.

I did not take lessons with those icons up there, but took a lesson with a famous one, we just did Rumba basics. Other coaches I've tried, I all did Rumba basics with them.

I recently changed a teacher whom gives lots of info about body moves, musicality, connections, and timings, etc, etc, etc, the list can go on......
I've tried to take his group lessons with him and figured he taught different way that I used to learn. My previous teacher was a technique guy and he was great, but a lack of things you mention hear. So maybe you need to find a person who can give you those info rather than take lessons from icons who give the same info that your current teacher give it to you?

[LauraB]

I suggest doing ribcage isolations (side to side, front and back, circles) to start freeing up your torso.

[latingal]

syi, good body action is tied up in the integration of many layers of work in the feet, legs and body the luminaries you took from might have decided they wanted to give you something that would help you in a different area and/or was a specialty of theirs.

Body action might be better worked by coaches or instructors that will be consistent and constant in their guidance since it takes much time and explanation to get the correct action.