Top Level Am's Competing in Pro/Am

[tasche]

Ok I'm bringing this topic over to this forum as I think its a place we can discuss it without all the trolls

The basic gist is there seems to be a trend of top level am's entering into the pro/am field. Some "may" teach some may not

What do you think fair or foul?

[SDsalsaguy]

Seems to me that if they don't teach they are, in every sense, just as viable to compete in Po/Am as any other student... and I don't think anyone would really have a problem with this. The questions emerge regarding students who do teach for money but are still classified as Ams... be it by NDCA or USABDA.

[Warren J. Dew]

Competing as the pro, or competing as the am?

[Laura]

Competing as the Am, if I understand her premise correctly. I don't have a problem with it EXCEPT that I've heard that a few of them are already teaching illegally by both USABDA and NDCA rules...and now they're dancing as AM's in Pro/Am competitions?

[Chris Stratton]

If it wanted to, the NDCA could decide to require the am half of pro-am couples to join its amateur registry, and then investigate the questionable cases. That was after all one of the stated purposes of the registry, and rumor is that amateur elgibility issues have been taken seriously on occasion.

To the pro-am comeptitors in this thread: would you rather have to pay $30 and be regulated? Or leave things as they are?

[Laura]

I would gladly pay even $60 per year to be registered if it meant being regulated with a centrally-tracked proficiency points database for Pro/Am, and if Student Dancers were held to the same eligibility rules that NDCA Amateurs are.

[SDsalsaguy]

Laura, as far as I understood it there aren't really proficiency points in Pro/Am... at least not in the sense of pointing out of increasing levels. Am I mistaken on this?

[tasche]

If it wanted to, the NDCA could decide to require the am half of pro-am couples to join its amateur registry, and then investigate the questionable cases. That was after all one of the stated purposes of the registry, and rumor is that amateur elgibility issues have been taken seriously on occasion.

To the pro-am comeptitors in this thread: would you rather have to pay $30 and be regulated? Or leave things as they are?

I'd happily pay the $30 as sofar as cost cost its a drop in the bucket.

I think my main point is really to ask what do ppl think about the "big guns" coming in into was is essentially a "hobby industry" With the new national and "world" titles coming into play how do you see the pro-am scene changing?

(I'm asking questions for now as my opinions are still forming)

[Laura]

Laura, as far as I understood it there aren't really proficiency points in Pro/Am... at least not in the sense of pointing out of increasing levels. Am I mistaken on this?

You are correct. My point is that I think there should be to take care of sandbagging complaints that I hear raised over and over again. I'd gladly pay a registration fee to fund development and maintenance of a point tracking system for Pro/Am.

As far as the "big guns" coming in, I don't particularly care so long as they all follow established rules regarding amateur elegibility, and if proficiency rules were put in place so that someone who was an elite Championship-level amateur athelete couldn't go back and win everything in syllabus levels that they would have already placed out of under the Amateur system.

And really, how much of a "hobby industry" is it anyway when the top Pro/Am students already have the time and money to do things like take 10+ lessons a week, or have exclusive contracts with their pros such that they can't teach anyone else, or donate tens of thousands of dollars to competition organizer's organizations?

[tasche]

Developing a point system doesn't have to be so hard. As you could ignore the freestyle entries as the level divisions vary and only count points earned in the multi-dance scholorships. If someone pointed out of the scholarship then of course that would make them ineligble for the freestyles at that main level

Clear rules are the only way to keep dancesport growing. If people feel the odds are fixed from the start then they wont bother

[tasche]

If there is a large influx of sucessful ams coming in do you think there should be another level added perhaps in between gold and open? Or is the major prob with these ams is with them sandbagging in which case that raises serious issues regarding sportsmanship and such like.

[tasche]

What I mean by a "hobby industry" is that its not on the same level as the open am circuit where world titles and teaching careers on the line. I am pro-am myself and take it seriously but I'll never be a world ranked am.

[SDsalsaguy]

Laura, as far as I understood it there aren't really proficiency points in Pro/Am... at least not in the sense of pointing out of increasing levels. Am I mistaken on this?

You are correct. My point is that I think there should be to take care of sandbagging complaints that I hear raised over and over again. I'd gladly pay a registration fee to fund development and maintenance of a point tracking system for Pro/Am.
OK, jsut making sure. So, basically, what it comes down to is that you wouldn't mind paying a Pro/Am fee, as the student, IF there was also a system put in place to limit sandbagging within the Pro/Am ranks. Makes sense to me... but I'm guessing that many pros wouldn't like this as it would limit the number of students/entries they could enter their students in.

[tasche]

Well I would imagine such a proposal would lead to an increase in the division of higher levels but in alot of cases those who enter alot of entries generally aren't the same ppl as those who sangbag. Indeed in the few cases of sandbagging that I've witnessed tend to enter few entries. For the majority of pros it would be business as usual

The trick to making this work is marketing this to both sides in a favorable way

Im guessing that you'd have to allow more points before pointing out or allow a grace period before jumping up as there are so many comps. Perhaps after 3-5 scholarship finals you then have to in the next competitive season go up to the next level