Frame clarification for NY vs Maimi style salsa

[Sagitta]

I've danced with one or two people from Miami and I notice that they don't like flashy moves/lots of turns and for they prefer the leader's right hand low on their back. NY dancers however want those turns and moves and feel odd if the leader doesn't place his/her right hand on the follower's left shoulder, high up on her back. True generalizations?

[borikensalsero]

Hmmmm,
I think it is true for the most part.
NY City On2 is actually taught as having the leaders hand on the shoulder blade so we get used to that, so when it is absent we miss it. Just like the moves, the mentality here lots of spins, lots of move, when not done, inexperienced dancers will get lost, or bored. Their philosophy doesn't allow them to see passed itself, hence, their need for multiple spins and moves to shine, as well as the hand up high to feel "secure".

Where as, not that I know anything about miami style salsa, but looking at their influence being mainly cuban... Cuban/Latin couple dancing has always been with the hand lower, well at the waist, actually power2 in NY City taught by old schoolers still calls for the leader's hand by the waist. Cuban dancing has never been as involved as the craze multiple spins and moves as NY City style, they like more of a grooving kind of style, kind of like power2 old school style, which still has a lot of cuban influence in it and main concern is to groove...

Two different philosophies, as well as techniques is what you have experienced, IMHO. Therefore, the truth of your observations.

[Sagitta]

Thanks boriken.

[tj]

Another thing that's not been mentioned yet, is that for Casino, follows need to be much more "spaghetti-armed" than other styles...

[Sagitta]

True, and this brings up a common issue -- heavy handedness of followers, even with the other styles. For instance, with on1 salsa leader does a left side break, flipping follower hand up on 3, while turning so both follower and leader are facing in same direction, to catch hand on 5, followed by inside turn. That hand flip quite often is tough to do, with right style, that is not with the obvious wind-up before it that screams look I'm coming. :( Or anyway, that's a problem that I have. :(

[tj]

True, and this brings up a common issue -- heavy handedness of followers, even with the other styles. For instance, with on1 salsa leader does a left side break, flipping follower hand up on 3, while turning so both follower and leader are facing in same direction, to catch hand on 5, followed by inside turn. That hand flip quite often is tough to do, with right style, that is not with the obvious wind-up before it that screams look I'm coming. :( Or anyway, that's a problem that I have. :(

I know what you mean - some follows don't have proper technique in following hand tosses and hand flips. There are generally ways for leads to compensate, but it depends on the particular move as well as the particular follow, in my experience.

[borikensalsero]

I love hand tosses, especially to the followers who you toss their hand but it doesn't go anywhere. It's like trying to get stickies off your fingers. Then when you try to compensate and gain a little speed, it looks even funnier, that's when they hold on to your hand even tighter. hehe... I love a mess up in that one, you get a chance to laugh it off, and look at each other like clowns, ooops, I sorry...

Or the ones that the hand goes up, the closer their eyes and style that baby up there, then you sit there waiting for their hand to come down 12 beats later... ahhhh, ahhh, hey, what happend? where did you go? hehe

[tj]

I love hand tosses, especially to the followers who you toss their hand but it doesn't go anywhere. It's like trying to get stickies off your fingers. Then when you try to compensate and gain a little speed, it looks even funnier, that's when they hold on to your hand even tighter. hehe... I love a mess up in that one, you get a chance to laugh it off, and look at each other like clowns, ooops, I sorry...

Or the ones that the hand goes up, the closer their eyes and style that baby up there, then you sit there waiting for their hand to come down 12 beats later... ahhhh, ahhh, hey, what happend? where did you go? hehe

IMHO, it's being playful and enjoying oneself exactly like you're describing is what I like about salsa.

[mellody43]

Can I jump in and ask a really inane question?

Is on2 the same steps, generally, just starting on the 2 rather than the 1?

Thanks =)
Melissa

[borikensalsero]

Can I jump in and ask a really inane question?

Is on2 the same steps, generally, just starting on the 2 rather than the 1?

Thanks =)
Melissa

Indeed it is... :D

[tj]

Can I jump in and ask a really inane question?

Is on2 the same steps, generally, just starting on the 2 rather than the 1?

Thanks =)
Melissa

Indeed it is... :D

Well, your feet during the "pause" are different.

If (for the sake of comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges) the basic step is stepping forward with one's left, stepping together, stepping backwards with one's right, stepping together...

Then during the "pause" (or the "slow") (or the "4" and "8" beats) your feet are in a different position depending on whether you're dancing On1 or On2 (assuming Eddie Torres On2).

I could show you in person a lot easier, Melissa.

[borikensalsero]

Indeed TJ is right about the feet position during the stop, for Eddie's style doesn't have a stop but a slow down in motion, so your four and the eight would be held up in the air until the one or the five, respectively, hit.
In the case of Power2 the stepping is the same but holding different counts, we hold the one and the five.

Power2 is stepped 2,3,4 hold 6,7,8 hold
Eddie's Style is 1,2,3 glide over the 4, 5,6,7 glide over the 8

The stepping sequence is still the same, though the positioning of the feet isn't exaclty the same as TJ mentiones.

Eddies style is similar to dancing Cha Cha except that you change the cha cha part with the glide over the tumbao with the foot on way to either the one or the five.

[SDsalsaguy]

Or the ones that the hand goes up, the closer their eyes and style that baby up there, then you sit there waiting for their hand to come down 12 beats later... ahhhh, ahhh, hey, what happend? where did you go? hehe
So maybe gravity doesn't work if you don't know about it? :shock: :wink: :lol:

[salsachinita]

Or the ones that the hand goes up, the closer their eyes and style that baby up there, then you sit there waiting for their hand to come down 12 beats later... ahhhh, ahhh, hey, what happend? where did you go? hehe
So maybe gravity doesn't work if you don't know about it? :shock: :wink: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: .......and I like that one when ShyDancer let her hand fall on her partner's head :shock: :lol: ! Beauty of gravity at work :wink: !

[tj]

Eddies style is similar to dancing Cha Cha except that you change the cha cha part with the glide over the tumbao with the foot on way to either the one or the five.

Good points, boriken, and I like the description of how ET's style is similar to Cha Cha. Haven't heard that one before, but I see what you're saying.

So, getting off topic a little here, how hard is it for an On1 dancer to find willing participants (ie. dancers willing to dance On1) in the NY/NJ area? Rumor has it that some clubs are more friendly than others when it comes to this, but I certainly don't know.

[newsalsera]

Melissa -
when you dance on 2 ny (eddie torres) style, the lady steps forward with her right foot on 1, forward again and breaks on 2, back with the right on 3, hold 4, back left on 5, break back right on 6, forward with the left on 7, hold 8. so you don't bring your feet together on 3 and 6. it's all a little different, your basic right turn is forward with the right on 1, forward again with the left on two, then you turn on three and complete the turn by 5, recover by breaking back with the right on 6 and step forward with the left on 7. etc. i first learned on 1, but now i only dance on 2. it was hard to get used to at first.

[Sagitta]

Aha. Making sense to me now. Suprising how a few months can give one perspective!! :) I've tried a little of Eddie's NYon2, and do find it tough, but that probably is contributed by my love of experimenting and I'm adding that to the on1 and on3 that I already do!! By the way I checked Eddie's site on different dance styles. Very interesting. Then wandering off topic, that lady blows me away by the things that she says about the dance in general.

[borikensalsero]

Eddies style is similar to dancing Cha Cha except that you change the cha cha part with the glide over the tumbao with the foot on way to either the one or the five.

Good points, boriken, and I like the description of how ET's style is similar to Cha Cha. Haven't heard that one before, but I see what you're saying.

So, getting off topic a little here, how hard is it for an On1 dancer to find willing participants (ie. dancers willing to dance On1) in the NY/NJ area? Rumor has it that some clubs are more friendly than others when it comes to this, but I certainly don't know.


There are some places like Nells that has gotten very on1 for NY City. Many on1 dancers frequent there, however, for the past few months or so, no many (on2) dancers go there. Some other places, everyone either waits to see the person dance first before going ahead and dancing with them, or ask the ol' on1 on2 question. How annoying is that!!!!??? Chances are that an on1 dancer not willing to do the on2 thing, will be watching most of the night. A lot of on2 refuse to do the on1 thing. But you'll find a lot of willing individuals, especially if the on1 dancer happens to be a HOT girl. :shock: