PDA

View Full Version : Some thoughts and observations about my trip


dchester
07-27-2009, 02:35 PM
Well, I'm back from my vacation in Buenos Aires. There were 10 of us in the group that went with us (actually some of them are still there this week). The main purpose was to attend some classes that were setup at DNI for us. My wife also suggested that we celebrate our 26th wedding aniversary there, (even though it was actually a week or so earlier than the trip). That gave us an excuse to get a suite at the Marriott for the week and really spoil ourselves. Of course, we also took in some Milongas, and did our part to help the economy in Buenos Aires (my wife bought everything, except new shoes).

Observations and differences:


The dance floors are much smaller in Buenos Aires than back here (in New England), with The Odd Tuesday Milonga in Boston being the one exception to that.
There is typically lots more seating (and tables) than back here.
There were three observable lanes/lines at the milongas, but typically only two back home (unless there is a really large floor).
The moves used are a subset of what we typically do back home. Possibly, that's a reason why the floorcraft is better there (although they certainly had their bozos as well).
People talk longer in between songs (especially the tangos), then what we do back home.
They also have early and late milongas there. Some start at around 5 or 6 and last until around midnight, while others start around 10 or 11 and last until 5.
The closest thing to alternative music that I heard, was a Pugliese tanda, and a lot less people danced to it, than other tangos (which nice, since I had more room).


Here is what I saw people doing during tangos (and vals):


walking (one or two very short steps, at a time).
turns/giros
ochos
ocho cortada
low (AKA social) boleos
pasadas (done low)
a few did calesitas
some limited single axis turns
and of course, pauses

It's a more sedate version of tango, than what we typically see most people do back home. This explained a few things for me.

What I did not see: Leg wraps, ganchos, volcadas, or anything in open embrace. (Actually, I was doing some leg wraps, until a friend (Argentine) pointed out to me that they were not appropriate for here. I later learned that leg wraps were fine at the nuevo places, but not at the more traditional milongas.)

Milonga (the dance), on the other hand, seemed to be more playful than what is done back home. There was lots of left arm movement by some of the leaders. A lot more ochos were used by some. Less people danced to the milongas, thus there was more room to play around. The people looked very happy during the milongas.

Also, about once an hour there was often a non tango tanda (swing, or latin). Their swing looked a lot like disco in the 70's (and was danced to various genres of rock music), while the latin tanda that I remembered, has one salsa, a merengue, and something else that I didn't recognize. People did whatever they felt like to any of the songs, but I didn't really see anyone doing anything that would pass for salsa around here.


Some other assorted thoughts:

DNI tango's classes were very good. The instruction, technique, and feedback on how to lead various things, was very helpful to me. They have a good system for teaching. Instead of us dancing with each other, we danced with their assistants (other good dancers, and some of them were teachers). The assistants did rotate amongst us, which enabled us to get a lot of credible feedback. They also didn't hesitate to ask the official teachers (Dana Frigoli & Pablo Villarraza in the first class, and Cristian Duarte & Carolina Lafata in the second class) to come over and give advice. They worked us hard, but it was fun. They were able to accomodate my questions about how to make some things smaller, and doing them in close embrace. The classes took up a lot of time though, as we spent 4 hours a day (2 - two hour sessions, with an hour break in between).

The Argentines that I talked to, didn't categorize tango the same way that we do back home. Here, we tend to have three general categories (or styles): Milonguero, Salon, and Nuevo. The people I talked to, either had one category (tango), or just two (salon & Nuevo/Fantasia). No one I talked to, considered milonguero to be a style, like is it considered here. Also, for the Argentines that had the two categories, where they drew the line for salon vs nuevo, was different from where it would be in the US. Some things that are considered part of salon in the US, appeared to be considered nuevo (even if done in close embrace).

It's became pretty clear that here, that our social dancing (back home) is influenced more by performances, than what occurs in Buenos Aires (of course we tend to have more dance space, so it's more easily acccomodated). To be clear, I don't have an issue with how we do things here in the US, but am just pointing out some differences. As a friend of mine in Argentina (Gustavo Benzecry Saba) said, it is good to study all forms of tango (although his clear preference is very similiar to what Jantango says (it is about the connection, not the steps)).

All in all, my wife and I had a great time and will return. I was pleased that I was able to do OK at the milongas I attended (Castel - Riobamba345, Salon Canning, El Beso, and DNI held an impromptu one for us on Friday night). The Cabeceo worked fine, and people did dance with me. Next time, we'll try to spend two weeks there instead of just one, do more milongas and spend less time in classes (maybe just do some privates), and actually meet up with Jantango instead of just talking to her on the phone (she was very nice to talk to, BTW).

Oh, I also want to eat more empanadas and media lunas.

http://www.dance-forums.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Steve Pastor
07-27-2009, 03:56 PM
Milonga (the dance), on the other hand, seemed to be more playful than what is done back home. Less people danced to the milongas, thus there was more room to play around. The people looked very happy during the milongas.
So, I guess my approach to milonga is "authentic" after all!

(she was very nice to talk to, BTW)
Not sure exactly why, but this made me Laugh Out Loud.

Zoopsia59
07-27-2009, 05:20 PM
The only think in your post that came as a surprise to me was this:

"my wife bought everything, except new shoes"

How did she manage that? Seriously... did they just not ever take you to the shoe stores? Or does she have amazing will power?

PS - Glad you had a great time. I've heard good things about DNI (probably from the same people who went on/organized your tour) I really want to go back too.

Captain Jep
07-27-2009, 05:21 PM
yes yes but did you go to the ice cream parlour as well? hehe

(being serious for a mo, nice review, DC. Were you at the new DNI studios? what were they like?)

bastet
07-27-2009, 07:46 PM
thanks for posting this review dchester!

Did you also go out for steaks?

How could your wife possibly have skipped on the shoes?! I'd have maxed out a credit card on that!

Most of the things you said I already figured on re vocabulary for the dance floor and only 2 divisions in terminology instead of our 3. (I have a theory for that).

Y'all must have some decent size floors there. Most of the floors here in my area are in coffee shops, so I can totally empathize with the space scale in BsAs.

Gustavo and Maria will be at Tangofest in October and I am looking forward to classes with them. They seem very friendly.

I know that the idea of more advanced dancers rotating through a class of less experienced dancers tends to move everyone on a bit more quickly. I think that's a really good thing to do and glad the teachers employed that method with y'all.

dchester
07-27-2009, 08:55 PM
The only think in your post that came as a surprise to me was this:

"my wife bought everything, except new shoes"

How did she manage that? Seriously... did they just not ever take you to the shoe stores? Or does she have amazing will power? It surprised me as well. She does have good will power, I must admit. We did walk over to Suipacha St (where Darcos and several other shoe stores are). I bought a pair of shoes, but she didn't. She already does have a pair of Comme Il Fauts, Darcos, Neotango, and possibly some others though.

PS - Glad you had a great time. I've heard good things about DNI (probably from the same people who went on/organized your tour) I really want to go back too. Hmmm... This has me wondering if we've crossed paths somewhere along the way.

http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/images/smilies/huh.gif

dchester
07-27-2009, 09:03 PM
yes yes but did you go to the ice cream parlour as well? hehe

(being serious for a mo, nice review, DC. Were you at the new DNI studios? what were they like?)Actually, I had to pass to on the ice cream. I had too many empanadas, along with the pastries.

We were at the new studio, on the corner of Bulnes and Lavalle. They said it's not completed yet. The first floor basically just had a little store (tango shoes & clothes) in it. The second and third floors had the studio floors. They said they were also planning on adding a little bar & lounge or something, someplace on the top floor. Pablo said the goal was to make it so you'd never have to leave.

dchester
07-27-2009, 10:40 PM
Did you also go out for steaks? Yes and they were good, but I can find good steak around here, as well. Let's face it, you really have to try hard to screw up a steak. Even I can cook one.

The pastries were really good though, I must admit.

Gustavo and Maria will be at Tangofest in October and I am looking forward to classes with them. They seem very friendly. I'll admit, I am rather biased when it comes to Gustavo and Maria. I think they are great teachers, and wonderful people.

Angel HI
07-28-2009, 02:47 AM
Thanks for that. I am going to copy it and pass it around in my classes if you do not mind. I have been saying these things verbatimadnauseum for years, but many, if not most, think that I do not know what I am talking about (despite having lived there). :confused:

Glad that you had a great time, and shared such a special occassion, but happier that you arrived back safely. See you on the boards.

Heather2007
07-28-2009, 04:22 AM
Well, I'm back from my vacation in Buenos Aires. http://www.dance-forums.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Nice review.

I have been saying these things verbatimadnauseum for years, but many, if not most, think that I do not know what I am talking about (despite having lived there). :confused:

Same here in London. No matter what they are told in class - all that wealth of passed down knowledge just performs a mass exodus into the ether come milonga time. :confused: (A new thread perhaps entitled "Why?")

bastet
07-28-2009, 07:40 AM
Yes and they were good, but I can find good steak around here, as well. Let's face it, you really have to try hard to screw up a steak. Even I can cook one.

The pastries were really good though, I must admit.

I'll admit, I am rather biased when it comes to Gustavo and Maria. I think they are great teachers, and wonderful people.


Don't eat steak myself, but it's something that always seems to get mentioned by people I know that went. (Or maybe it's that people from Texas are a little too obsessed by steak and BBQ. :rolleyes:)

Thanks again for the great review. I really enjoyed the info.

Peaches
07-28-2009, 07:52 AM
Personally, it was the fruits and vegetables and coffee that caught my attention. Sure, the steak was tasty, but whatever. I've never had fruits and veggies that tasted SO MUCH like fruits and veggies, before or since.

And the pastries are damn tasty, too.

Ooooh...and empanadas. What I wouldn't give to find real empanadas anywhere near where I live. Alas...given that I'm surrounded by corn and cow fields, I sincerely doubt that'll happen.

Subliminal
07-28-2009, 08:06 AM
Ooooh...and empanadas. What I wouldn't give to find real empanadas anywhere near where I live. Alas...given that I'm surrounded by corn and cow fields, I sincerely doubt that'll happen.

You could probably find some down this way. I've heard of a place in Adam's Morgan... haven't been there though, so I don't know how good they are. :)

Peaches
07-28-2009, 08:13 AM
Oh, I'm sure there's all kinds of wonderfulness in DC. I just don't know about the places, and don't really ever get down there.

At one special milonga last year, the hosts (Argentines) made and brought a whole bunch of empanadas. Heaven! Tango and empanadas!!!

Subliminal
07-28-2009, 08:28 AM
At one special milonga last year, the hosts (Argentines) made and brought a whole bunch of empanadas. Heaven! Tango and empanadas!!!

:drool:

This thread is becoming hijacked by talk of tasty food. Uh. Back to the topic... really neat post dchester, makes me want to go to Argentina!

Joe
07-29-2009, 06:45 AM
I'm sure you can easily find empanadas in the area. Perhaps not Argentine-style, but certainly Salvadoran-style.

new-ish
07-29-2009, 02:19 PM
Very nice trip review.

The other really good shopping item (if you are trying to build a collection) is Tango Music.

Zival's has the best selection, but there are many small music stores all over the place in BA. You can often get collections of most of the big Orquestas on the sale racks for US$5 or under.

There is alot of fine dining in Buenos Aires besides the steak places. There is a blog called "Go Where the Taxista Takes You" by Layne Mosler that is a great read whether you go to BA or not.

Captain Jep
07-30-2009, 04:51 AM
I'm sure you can easily find empanadas in the area. Perhaps not Argentine-style, but certainly Salvadoran-style.

There's a lovely bar across the road from Practica X that does (did?) fantastic empanadas.

Now I'm back in England though I'd prefer a good Cornish pastie :rolleyes:

bafonso
10-06-2009, 12:26 AM
nice to know dchester! (haven't visited the forum in months)

Thanks for considering the odd tuesday the most authentic milonga ;-) we try our best...

Light Sleeper
10-06-2009, 02:33 PM
What I did not see: Leg wraps, ganchos, volcadas, or anything in open embrace. (Actually, I was doing some leg wraps, until a friend (Argentine) pointed out to me that they were not appropriate for here. I later learned that leg wraps were fine at the nuevo places, but not at the more traditional milongas.)



Really enjoyed reading your notes, dchester :) and a welcome opportunity to bump up a less 'busy' thread ;)

That's very interesting about leg wraps as I would've thought they were pretty unobtrusive.

All in all, it sounds rather lovely, I like the sound of the swing type music... and the empanadas ;)

Out of interest - did you have a host to introduce you to the milongas or did you just go it alone as a couple or group?

dchester
10-06-2009, 03:35 PM
Really enjoyed reading your notes, dchester :) and a welcome opportunity to bump up a less 'busy' thread ;)

That's very interesting about leg wraps as I would've thought they were pretty unobtrusive.

All in all, it sounds rather lovely, I like the sound of the swing type music... and the empanadas ;)

Out of interest - did you have a host to introduce you to the milongas or did you just go it alone as a couple or group?
There was one that we went to as a group, but the others were my wife and I going it alone (we did not sit together). I would ask my wife to dance soon after we arrived, so people could see that we were (at least somewhat) capable of dancing there.

Lui
10-06-2009, 10:33 PM
… very cunning! :p

And thank you for sharing your observations, I like them.

jantango
10-06-2009, 11:36 PM
There was one that we went to as a group, but the others were my wife and I going it alone (we did not sit together). I would ask my wife to dance soon after we arrived, so people could see that we were (at least somewhat) capable of dancing there.

Do you really believe the locals thought you were strangers to one another? The fact you danced together soon after your arrival only confirmed it. Two new faces in the room are seen on the floor -- of course, they are a couple!

Lui
10-06-2009, 11:57 PM
But, it surly signaled, that they wanted to dance and it’s shows good will toward local customs. What’s wrong with that? In Bueos Aires, I always feel like having a big stamp on my forehead, saying FORGEINER. So there is no need to hide my origin, anyway. I wouldn’t like to spend all evening separated from my partner, but when it works for them. Why not?

Jan, what would you suggest to get known and dancing with the locals, given you had only 2 or 3 evenings?

They found a solution, that works for them, and I think that fact alone is smart (but table consuming).

Peaches
10-07-2009, 06:33 AM
*snarky reply deleted*

dchester
10-07-2009, 09:30 AM
Do you really believe the locals thought you were strangers to one another? The fact you danced together soon after your arrival only confirmed it. Two new faces in the room are seen on the floor -- of course, they are a couple!
That wasn't the point. We sat apart because I was told that if we sat together, it would be more difficult (especially for my wife) to get dances with some of the locals. BTW, at Canning (where Maria and Gustavo teach when they aren't touring), I sat with Gustavo, while my wife sat with Maria. I'm kinda guessing that people know they are a couple, too.

hbboogie1
10-07-2009, 10:51 AM
[QUOTE=dchester;735176]That wasn't the point. We sat apart because I was told that if we sat together, it would be more difficult (especially for my wife) to get dances with some of the locals. BTW, at Canning (where Maria and Gustavo teach when they aren't touring), I sat with Gustavo, while my wife sat with Maria. I'm kinda guessing that people know they are a couple, too.[/QUO

Dchester
Forget BsAs I do the same thing you did at milongas in the US. I dance with my wife for a few tandas and then I high tail it to the other end of the room to socialize and also to let others know she’s open game. When I sit with her she doesn’t get asked to dance that much, go figure?
Side note: we went ballroom dancing last Saturday and sat together, I hardly got to dance with her. Obviously the men of ballroom have a different outlook on couples.

Lilly_of_the_valley
10-07-2009, 12:27 PM
Dchester
Forget BsAs I do the same thing you did at milongas in the US. I dance with my wife for a few tandas and then I high tail it to the other end of the room to socialize and also to let others know she’s open game. When I sit with her she doesn’t get asked to dance that much, go figure?
Side note: we went ballroom dancing last Saturday and sat together, I hardly got to dance with her. Obviously the men of ballroom have a different outlook on couples.

By the way, this is very true. When I sit with a man in a milonga, I get asked less. Even though at times the guy is "very obviously" not my boyfriend. For example he lives in the same neighborhood, we carpooled to the milonga that night, came in and sat together. People just get mindful, when they are not sure what the situation is between those two, if by asking they might interrupt anything... and while in doubt, refrain.
So, if I want to dance a lot, I will not sit with one man for the whole evening. Also, I try not to enter or exit the milonga with a singe guy in tow. :)

jantango
10-08-2009, 12:13 AM
Jan, what would you suggest to get known and dancing with the locals, given you had only 2 or 3 evenings?

Ask your teachers to take you to their favorite milonga and introduce you to their friends. This should be part of what the teachers do in addition to classes--to get you to use what you learn in class with other dancers. Taking classes without dancing at the milongas is pointless.

It is unreasonable to think that someone who has a few nights in Buenos Aires is going to have a night of great dancing with the locals. It takes months to be known and then regular return visits to build a group of partners who remember you and then dance with you. The majority of locals I see in a milonga don't feel any obligation to dance with foreigners. They are there to dance with people they know--just like dancers is any other country.

Angel HI
10-08-2009, 03:15 AM
*snarky reply deleted*.....

Light Sleeper
10-08-2009, 01:07 PM
.....

Hee hee!! Do any UK DFers remember that 80's kid's tv show, 'Jonny Briggs'? .... reminds me of the girl in Jonny's class who was forever saying 'My mum, who's a nurse' :)