Group Class Nastiness

[delamusica]

Argh. So I was in a group class tonight dancing by myself, and while we were supposed to be practicing a step and the teacher was working with another couple, I asked the couple next to me (I know the guy, but not his partner) if I could try it with him once, and his girl nearly bit my head off - all this "are you a teacher? no? then please don't say anything to my partner - we're paying for her to teach." Gosh though - I make no pretense to be a teacher, and I try my best to divert questions that people ask me to a teacher here . . . I just wanted to try the step with a live person . . . hardly reason to yell at me in front of the entire class, if you ask me! :oops:

Sorry guys, but I just had to vent . . . group class drama, you know!

[Sagitta]

I empathise with you. How much I do!! I've had some bad group class experiences. I always try and do my best, even if I come with someone to help out those who don't have partners if there is an unequal amount of leaders and follows. I also think it's important that the instructor does his/her part too, particularly if the class isn't advertised as couples only.

Just like jostling on the social dance floor. I hate it. :headwall: Especially if I can't protect the follow. :(

[learningtodancewell]

That's terrible!

Someone give the woman that bit your head off a

COUTH

pill! :shock:

We're all there to have FUN aren't we? I am. I'm a student BTW.

She could have declined more gracefully, that's for sure.

http://www.m-w.com/

[etchuck]

ugh... well, a couple of things...

if it's a group class of beginners, most beginners won't change partners unless the instructor tells them to.

Also, as much as you would like to be nice about it, some people would take it personally if you wanted to "take my partner." It would probably be just easier to ask the instructor to change partners, especially if you had no partner in the first place.

But yes, I think that the other person was extremely rude and inconsiderate... but then again, maybe that person was still trying to work on that figure and felt very self-conscious about it.

[tasche]

If I was in the same situation I can guarantee that the lady in question wouldn't ahve recieved a well deserved b slap but thats me :shock:

[Larinda McRaven]

Ouch... :?

But I think etchuck is probably onto the right motivation. By the womans (I won't say lady) words it sounds like she was being a bit self-defensive, probably self-conscious (sp), threatened, and a bit frustarted with herself or her partnership. She might have thought you were trying to show them how to do it, rather than check out yourself. In any case, if she has any smarts at all she will think about it later and realize she jumped at you for no reason and probably feel rather bad about it.

Not that you need to apologize for anything, :!: but next time maybe try prefacing it with, "hey I can't figure this out, could I try it with you to see if I have it right?" That might ease the tension before any major flare-ups have a chance to happen.

[cocodrilo]

Argh. So I was in a group class tonight dancing by myself, and while we were supposed to be practicing a step and the teacher was working with another couple, I asked the couple next to me (I know the guy, but not his partner) if I could try it with him once, and his girl nearly bit my head off - all this "are you a teacher? no? then please don't say anything to my partner - we're paying for her to teach." Gosh though - I make no pretense to be a teacher, and I try my best to divert questions that people ask me to a teacher here . . . I just wanted to try the step with a live person . . . hardly reason to yell at me in front of the entire class, if you ask me! :oops:

Sorry guys, but I just had to vent . . . group class drama, you know!

Too much cheese in her diet... :?

[mr bixx]

wow sorry to hear that. group classes are scary for alot of people, esp single people. when i am teaching i dont let couples dance togheter. i really focus on the lead and follow, and dancing with different people really enalbes that. at the end of the hour i will let couples get back together but not before. social dancing should be fun and exciting. metting new people and dacing with strangers is the way to make it exciting.

[Purr]

Are you kidding me? That situation sounds ugly!

[ShyDancer]

She sounds just lovely doesnt she??

Maybe she is insecure.
Or maybe she didnt know any better...was it one of her first attempts at dancing? She may not be used to or even understand the social ettiquette of switching partners yet.

Or she could just be an uptight old hag :roll:

[learningtodancewell]

Maybe after thinking about it, Miss Crabby will apologize to you at the next group lesson...

[pygmalion]

Miss Crabby? :lol: :lol:

I can honestly say I've never experienced anything like this. I didn't realize until now how lucky I've been. :?

[Vince A]

Just goes to show indicate to you how insecure she is in her relationship!!!

Remember, what goes around comes around . . . someday, she will ask someone to help her . . . just you did . . . hope she gets the same response shoved in her face!

[Chris Stratton]

Obviosly the woman's reaction didn't contribute to the group class atmosphere, but I really do wonder what thoughts might have been in her head at the time. Could she and her partner have recently had some unwelcome advice pushed on them by someone else? Might she think her partner was right at the verge of figuring something out, such that a contrasting view would be very distracting right then? Perhaps they had a fight on the way to class?

There's a lot going on inside people's heads. While group classes tend to reflect the format of social dancing, and while there are indeed benefits to trying things with a variety of partners, there is also value to working things out in the context of a partnership.

It's hard to see the whole picture from my armchair.

[peachexploration]

Ouch... :?

But I think etchuck is probably onto the right motivation. By the womans (I won't say lady) words it sounds like she was being a bit self-defensive, probably self-conscious (sp), threatened, and a bit frustarted with herself or her partnership. She might have thought you were trying to show them how to do it, rather than check out yourself. In any case, if she has any smarts at all she will think about it later and realize she jumped at you for no reason and probably feel rather bad about it.

Not that you need to apologize for anything, :!: but next time maybe try prefacing it with, "hey I can't figure this out, could I try it with you to see if I have it right?" That might ease the tension before any major flare-ups have a chance to happen.

Ditto, Larinda.

I have seen this many times. Especially, if the couples are in group classes "together".

[Vince A]

Obviosly the woman's reaction didn't contribute to the group class atmosphere, but I really do wonder what thoughts might have been in her head at the time. Could she and her partner have recently had some unwelcome advice pushed on them by someone else? Might she think her partner was right at the verge of figuring something out, such that a contrasting view would be very distracting right then? Perhaps they had a fight on the way to class?

There's a lot going on inside people's heads. While group classes tend to reflect the format of social dancing, and while there are indeed benefits to trying things with a variety of partners, there is also value to working things out in the context of a partnership.

It's hard to see the whole picture from my armchair.
By the same token, the 'woman' did not know what was going on inside of delamusica's head . . . and all dm wanted to do was to try out the "move" that they just learned

[Chris Stratton]

By the same token, the 'woman' did not know what was going on inside of delamusica's head . . . and all dm wanted to do was to try out the "move" that they just learned

No, she didn't know what delamusica was thinking - but she's also not the one who sought out the interaction. Not wanting to be disturbed is a legitimate feeling even in a group class - though it could be expressed better.

[Vince A]

I hear you, Chris . . .

[tasche]

Miss Crabby? :lol: :lol:

I can honestly say I've never experienced anything like this. I didn't realize until now how lucky I've been. :?

Hey that was my maiden name! (true)

[dragon3085]

Argh. So I was in a group class tonight dancing by myself, and while we were supposed to be practicing a step and the teacher was working with another couple, I asked the couple next to me (I know the guy, but not his partner) if I could try it with him once, and his girl nearly bit my head off - all this "are you a teacher? no? then please don't say anything to my partner - we're paying for her to teach." Gosh though - I make no pretense to be a teacher, and I try my best to divert questions that people ask me to a teacher here . . . I just wanted to try the step with a live person . . . hardly reason to yell at me in front of the entire class, if you ask me! :oops:

Sorry guys, but I just had to vent . . . group class drama, you know!

I think there are situation where the gist of what she said would be ok, however this time was not one of those times. Sounds more likely that either she was having problems grasping the move herself and was just frustrated or she was marking her territory.

There are time when a group class has that one know it all who feel he or she should be teaching the class instead of the instructor but she had no business biting your head off just for asking to borrow a partner, its not like you said "no your supposed to do it this way'

[DanceAm]

I pretty much stopped going to group classes. Not so much for this reason, but they just stopped being fun. But one I was at where we switched partners, and my new partner almost stopped the class with her loud voice and said to the teacher, "Can you help him, he still can't do it right". The teacher told everyone to keep practicing and she would go around to each couple. Then she came over to us, she danced it with me and it was fine, then she danced it with her and found what was wrong. The teacher didn't blab it to the whole class what she was doing it wrong she discreetly said "Try...". So I continued on then the next partner I had when we switched again said, "Let me help you with this." I didn't say anything, but really just wanted to leave. It's like I became the class poster child.

What was sort of vindicating was when we started the social dance, most of the regulars were dancing with me and of course my wife too, and I made sure they couldn't help but notice that I just didn't come in from off the street that day. My wife said after the dance, without my prompting, "you really showed that lady who could dance." My wife knew exactly what I was trying to do and she was helping me do it. She didn't like that I was being made the class idiot either.

I think it was a bit immature on my part to do that, but it felt good at the time. I think basic rules of group classes should be reiterated just to remind everyone how we should act.

[pygmalion]

Yeah. You can really run into some characters in group class. You showed her, DanceAm. Just goes to prove what I've always thought was true. Dancing well is the best revenge. :wink: :lol:

I've never had a problem with rotation before, but I did once run into a lech -- a new guy in class who kept making lewd jokes with all the women. :evil: Somehow, I think he had the wrong impression that dance class is a place to pick up women. Grr. I told the teacher what was going on, in a low voice, of course. I didn't expect the teacher to fix it. I just wanted him to be warned that, if I heard one more gross remark from the (half-drunk, btw) newbie, I was going to slap the heck out of him, right on front of the whole class. :shock: :lol: Fortunately, the hour ended before he rotated back around to me. LOL.

[dragon3085]

I good female friend of mine joined the studio and had a problem with certain student- breaking frame shall we say- hand wandering a little further south then they ought too and such. The instructors addressed it during the group classes, but subtley was apparently lost on these guys, so finally my friend who also has a martial arts background had to do some wrist adjustments on one of these guys, guess what they keep their hands where they belong now with all the female students.

[peachexploration]

.... if I heard one more gross remark from the (half-drunk, btw) newbie, I was going to slap the heck out of him, right on front of the whole class. :shock: :lol: Fortunately, the hour ended before he rotated back around to me. LOL.

I hate when they do that! That's happened many times as well in my group classes. Don't come to class when you've been drinking! It smells, you're dizzy and it's disruptive! UGH! :evil:

[etchuck]

Thanks. I just have a feeling there has to be some reason why a person behaves the way they do. Usually it's not because they want to be mean to you. It usually takes about a few weeks when that person knows me well enough that they really do want to be mean to me. ;)

As for drinking before coming to class... thank goodness I haven't been witness to this. Of course, maybe I shouldn't be eating an entire bulb of roasted garlic straight-up before going to a dance class...

[etchuck]

I good female friend of mine joined the studio and had a problem with certain student- breaking frame shall we say- hand wandering a little further south then they ought too and such.

Aside from the instructors being sure that the student doesn't decide to grab a bit too much, I'd suggest to your female friend... don't be afraid to exercise your knee reflex if he decides to do that again.

As an ancient grade school proverb goes:
Rah Rah Ree...
Kick him in the knee.
Rah Rah Rass...
Kick him in the other knee.

P.S. Urban legend: I should mention this one lead who decided to let his hand migrate a bit below the partner's belt during a dance class. The partner had been experienced in Irish dancing, and demonstrated her powerful leg kick...

I'm not a violent person really... I just advocate selective instances of violence. :)

[pygmalion]

Thanks. I just have a feeling there has to be some reason why a person behaves the way they do. Usually it's not because they want to be mean to you. It usually takes about a few weeks when that person knows me well enough that they really do want to be mean to me. ;)



That's a good point, etchuck. A lot of newbies don't understand dance or dance-class etiquette. It's easy to misunderstand, particularly if the new students wants to learn with their SO. So exactly why are other people in class dancing with him/her? It takes a while for some people to realize that it's not personal.

[dancin_feet]

We had one guy who turned up to a couple of parties drunk. Needed a bit of dutch courage I think. A group of us got together and decided if he did it once more we were going to go to the GM about it. Next thing you know, he's broken his foot! Talk about karma coming back to get you! :?

I have never had a problem in a group lesson before. Other than guys seeing that I can do the step and they move to partner me, they put themselves down all the time. I know it's purely a self confidence thing, so I try to reassure them and tell them they did well. Some groups take a lot of ego stroking to get through, but I feel that if it helps them to understand and get it, then why not? I won't teach, that's up to the teacher (unless I'm collaborating with a person of my own level and we'll try to iron out the problem before we get the instructor's input).

One older guy who came to a couple of classes actually bragged to me that he had asked his instructor to marry him! :shock: Needless to say he didn't last long at the studio!

[pygmalion]

We had one guy who turned up to a couple of parties drunk. Needed a bit of dutch courage I think. A group of us got together and decided if he did it once more we were going to go to the GM about it. Next thing you know, he's broken his foot! Talk about karma coming back to get you! :?



Yup. The universe dispenses its own brand of justice. :twisted: :roll: :lol:

[Genesius Redux]

We have a problem child in a Charleston group class--bossy, not a very good or natural dancer but approaches the class with an affected seriousness and whenever she can't get anything, she gets this attitude about whomever she's dancing with. Russian-born (this becomes relevant later in the story).

Anyway, we're just doing some crossovers and she just can't get it. So she decides she's going to stay after class to practice, and extends her hand to me (without asking) like I'm just supposed to stay and practice with her. Fine, I'm a nice person, so I'll stay a few minutes. Only she starts backleading and anticipating everything like I'm some inert post she can balance herself on. So I do what I always do when someone starts to backlead in a group class--I stop doing the pattern and I insist on leading everything.

So she still tries to do the crossovers, without a lead, and looks at me when I haven't followed her. "I wasn't ready for the crossovers," I say. She gets this irritated look on her face and we do it again. Again I refuse. And I tell her again, "I'm working on leading the crossovers instead of just doing the pattern."

And she says in this loud, exasperated voice, "Well please don't. I'm trying to learn the steps. Just do the steps on the count."

This from someone who grabs me after class like I'm her *&%ing slave.

Okay. So I decide if she wants to do the choreography, we'll do the choreography. And I put on my musical theatre persona and do the steps full-out. The first time she loses herself. And I turn around and say to her "Don't drop my hand." Count off again and do it again. By this time, the next class is coming in so as soon as we've done the step once more, I say, "Oh, here comes the next class. See ya later" and walk out.

And I'm trying to remember where I've seen her before--and it comes to me. She was one of the people who came to the auditions for The Cherry Orchard in January. And she had this high and mighty attitude there too--"I have studied Stanislavski!" Which to most working American actors who are classically grounded, Alexander technique, improv experience, practical aesthetics, is kind of like saying--well, never mind what it's like saying.

Anyway, she blew chunks at that audition too. Wasn't even called back. You have to feel sorry for these people who haven't even got the basic humility to realize when they need to work at something. Sheesh.