Why don't we cross-train?

[Benjy]

Why don't ballroom dancers cross-train more?

Maybe it's a US thing, because I know my coach is trained is a whole variety of styles, but I know very few American amateur dancers who have any real training (or, it seems, interest), in other dance styles. I find this so bizarre. I watched the finale of So You Think You Can Dance the day before I was offered a job teaching latin at a ballet/modern studio, and I was thrilled beyond belief when they told me that as part of my compensation I can take whatever dance classes I want at the school for free. They, in fact encouraged me, because they like their instructors to do as much dancing as possible in as many different styles as possible.

According to something I once heard Karina say, her idea of a good practice schedule is practice for hours, then go take a dance class in another style. It seemed to work pretty well for her, right? I know that Yulia also has training in quite a few other styles. Why don't more people take the hint?

[DL]

I'm an amateur. I practice standard. I take group classes in other ballroom styles. I take the occasional salsa group class for fun/variety. I keep meaning to find the time to dabble in Argentine Tango.

I only spend so many hours per week on dancing, which after all is not what I do for a living. I divvy up the time according to my social/recreational goals. Non-partner dance holds no particular interest for me as a field of study.

Er, so do you think I do or don't cross-train? Either way, does that answer your question?

[Benjy]

I'm an amateur. I practice standard. I take group classes in other ballroom styles. I take the occasional salsa group class for fun/variety. I keep meaning to find the time to dabble in Argentine Tango.

I only spend so many hours per week on dancing, which after all is not what I do for a living. I divvy up the time according to my social/recreational goals. Non-partner dance holds no particular interest for me as a field of study.

Er, so do you think I do or don't cross-train? Either way, does that answer your question?

I would say that you don't cross train, no. Partner dancing is by necessity limited by the presence of another person and almost always by the imposition of male/female roles. A great thing about other styles (modern in particular) is that the dance is about spatial interaction and not simply boy-girl, which I think is very limiting.

I guess it answers my question in part... it doesn't interest you. But I feel like I was more speaking towards people whose goals lie not in social dancing but in performance/competition.

[DL]

I would say that you don't cross train, no. Partner dancing is by necessity limited by the presence of another person and almost always by the imposition of male/female roles. A great thing about other styles (modern in particular) is that the dance is about spatial interaction and not simply boy-girl, which I think is very limiting.

I guess it answers my question in part... it doesn't interest you. But I feel like I was more speaking towards people whose goals lie not in social dancing but in performance/competition.

<shrug> I compete sometimes, too -- in standard, as one of the ways I divvy up my time according to my social/recreational goals. How do you draw that line?

I suspect that you're right that I don't fall into your target demographic. But who are you asking -- people for whom, in pursuit of their partner-dancing goals, it would make total sense to engage in cross-training including non-partner dance, yet don't? I guess they're nuts, whoever they are... :) (You seem to be in the saner group of people for whom, in pursuit of their partner-dancing goals, it would make total sense to engage in cross-training including non-partner dance, *and do*.)

PS

I might be wrong, but I think some pros I know would raise their eyebrows at a suggestion that spatial interaction isn't a consideration in partner dance.

[Casayoto]

I cross train. I do ballet, tap, jazz, and yoga regularly. And I occasionally do hip hop, and Simonson. Most of the improvements I've made in ballroom have come about due to my other training. Of course, ballroom technique is very specific, and you can't get by with just other training(the reason that so much ballroom on SYTYCD is pretty bad when the contemporary people do it), but without the other training I do, I wouldn't be as good of a ballroom dancer.

[Joe]

Why don't ballroom dancers cross-train more?

Perhaps because for the purposes of dancing ballroom, the benefits of cross-training are lesser than the benefits of training in ballroom? Perhaps because those who are seriously competing are busy training for ballroom competition?

[etp777]

Time is definitely one of the big issues. I konw I work full time, and then spend about all my other time in studio practicing (or in gym when I can make myself). Same type of thing with all the pros I konw. They're in the studio teaching all day, and then come in early or stay late to practice, get coachings on their own dancing, etc.

That being said, majority of pros I know seem to have experience in other styles in the past. Pas de deux, tap, jazz, modern, ballet and pointe (there is a difference ;) ), rhythmic gymnastics, etc. And you can see that they have benefited from that experience, just not as much benefit, or time, now, as Joe said.

[AMeader]

I think that part of the reason for a 'lack of cross-training' may be cultural; many dancers in Europe start very young, and their early training is guided by parents, etc, who have the time and money to encourage their children in multiple disciplines. In the US, many ballroom/latin dancers, even those who compete, don't start until later in life, and just may not have the capacity for cross-training.

[LucyDiamond]

I guess I could say I cross-trained for about the first 3 years I studied ballroom. I actually started with tap around 1996 and continued for 10 years. I started ballroom in 2003 and still do it today. I've found that the rhythm I learned in tap has helped me tremendously in ballroom with the timing of the steps. I'm always asking my pro what's the count and once I have the count I'm along ways towards mastering a step.

[Br0nze]

The simplest answer, I suppose, would be that we are too busy perfecting the techniques of ballroom.

I do believe that it is a multifaceted issue. Ballroom is a specific style with specific posture, execution, etc -- and other styles have their own postures, COG, techniques. While I am definitely of the opinion that is it better to know, shall we say enough, of as many styles as possible, it is difficult to find the resources (time, money) to cross-train and cross-train seriously.

[ant]

I do some belly dancing. Mainly because it was a free class on offer at the gym I go to.

However it has helped my hip action for the Latin dances.

I also do AT and the upper body work you do in belly dancing certainly helps with the chest leads AT requires and because of the work you do on the hips it lends itself to having a freer leg for AT.

[I'm Still Dancing]

I suppose I'm an unusual case as I was trained in ballet, tap, jazz, flamenco, contemporary and musical theatre for about 15 years before I started ballroom dancing. I definitely don't think I would have grasped ballroom technique as quickly as I did without that training. And it definitely benefits me in terms of adapting to all different styles.

While many competitive ballroom dancers do focus their training on partner techniques, I find that my favorite competitive dancers almost always have other training. It's all part of being a true well-rounded dancer.

[dlgodud]

Well, I don't know where you get this idea from, but a lot of coaches and instructors whom I know are cross trained in the US.

[skwiggy]

Maybe it's a US thing, because I know my coach is trained is a whole variety of styles, but I know very few American amateur dancers who have any real training (or, it seems, interest), in other dance styles. I find this so bizarre. I watched the finale of So You Think You Can Dance the day before I was offered a job teaching latin at a ballet/modern studio, and I was thrilled beyond belief when they told me that as part of my compensation I can take whatever dance classes I want at the school for free. They, in fact encouraged me, because they like their instructors to do as much dancing as possible in as many different styles as possible.


I think the key is that you are comparing professionals to amateurs, which if you interpret them in the true spirit of the words, are apples and oranges. You are comparing your coach, a professional, and your own experience becoming an instructor, another professional endeavor, with that of amateur dancers. Many amateur dancers, if they are truly amateurs, have limited time and funds to dedicate to training.

I spend time cross training with things like weight lifting for strength and stability, cardio for stamina, yoga for flexibility, etc. These things certainly have improved my dancing and my physical preparation for competition. I choose these because they also have many other benefits to me healthwise, so I am getting a lot of bang for my buck.

But at the end of the day, many of us amateurs have a full time job amongst other commitments.

If dancing were my full time job, as it is for your coach, Karina, Yulia and many many others, then I would make it my business (because business is exactly what it is to professionals!) to seek outside training in any form possible to better myself as a professional. Not to mention, I think for professionals this cross training is tax deductible. ;)

But for me, and I suspect for many amateurs, there needs to be a balance. I have a certain amount of time and money for dance, so I use those resources in a focused manner rather than an exploratory one.

If I had unlimited time, energy and money to dedicate to dance, then you can bet I would be exploring many other forms of dance outside of ballroom.

[fire_dancer]

I think there are many reasons why people in the American ballroom community don't cross-train, in a dance sense. First of all, there's the time and money issue. Ballroom is by no means a cheap sport, and investing time and money into one style of dance is often plenty for most people. Additionally, when you consider that many ballroom dancers are in their middle years, I think the stigma of "youth" on other styles of dances often plays a part too. For example, when most (non-ballroom) people think of ballroom dancers, they think of all ages & all walks of life. When they think of a ballet dancer, or a bellydancer, they think of youth and a certain body type. So I think in that way, many people opt themselves out of multiple styles simply because of their own perceptions. (I'm too old, too heavy, too short, etc.)

Personally, I'm all for cross training. I did ballet for 14 years, as well as some tap and jazz. I am a bellydancer, and also perform Japanese dance. Generally, if I can find someone to teach it to me... I'll try it! :)

And I completely agree with what people have said on here before me - I find that breakthroughs in one style of dance find their way to the other styles and strengthen them as well.

[emeralddancer]

in the US (and this is pretty much across the board for all "sports" related activity, art, music, etc ...) While the US "wants" those things for their kids. It is up to the parents to deal with according to their child. (many many schools have taken out much of the "extracurricular" activities.)

In many european countries these things are a regular part of their educational training. So they "usually" have a much broader sense of the arts and sports. ALSO in these countries, children are encouraged from a very early age to "cross-train"

the european countries have it right in my opinion (and I am a US citizen saying this) ... this creates a much more well rounded individual.

the US is struggling to have kids just grad from high school and I think it is because of the limiting or no extracarricular activities of the arts and sports.

thus ... as we grow and become adults ... many really do not have the money (number 1) and time (number 2) to devote to cross training unless they hit in high school a school of the arts that one may attend. (in which very few are selected, and when they are very much encouraged to "cross train" in the arts and sports") (again in europe - from talking with european friends, this is not something the parents are paying for, it is apart of their education)

then also to since many of us found ballroom at the latter years ... we are so passionate about it, that we devote much of our resources to just whatever style of dance that makes us happy.

I was fortunate enough as a child to dance many different forms (and subsequently came to a abrupt halt (20 yrs) with getting married and having children) but when I was younger I danced ballet, tap, jazz, modern, clogging, square dancing, round dance, etc ... (for 15 years)

now that I am back ... my bank account can only devote itself to ballroom. :D

[tanya_the_dancer]

I think the key is that you are comparing professionals to amateurs, which if you interpret them in the true spirit of the words, are apples and oranges. You are comparing your coach, a professional, and your own experience becoming an instructor, another professional endeavor, with that of amateur dancers. Many amateur dancers, if they are truly amateurs, have limited time and funds to dedicate to training.

I spend time cross training with things like weight lifting for strength and stability, cardio for stamina, yoga for flexibility, etc. These things certainly have improved my dancing and my physical preparation for competition. I choose these because they also have many other benefits to me healthwise, so I am getting a lot of bang for my buck.

But at the end of the day, many of us amateurs have a full time job amongst other commitments.

If dancing were my full time job, as it is for your coach, Karina, Yulia and many many others, then I would make it my business (because business is exactly what it is to professionals!) to seek outside training in any form possible to better myself as a professional. Not to mention, I think for professionals this cross training is tax deductible. ;)

But for me, and I suspect for many amateurs, there needs to be a balance. I have a certain amount of time and money for dance, so I use those resources in a focused manner rather than an exploratory one.

If I had unlimited time, energy and money to dedicate to dance, then you can bet I would be exploring many other forms of dance outside of ballroom.

Exactly, a lot of us have to have a full-time job to pay for our dancing!

[DancinProf]

For example, when most (non-ballroom) people think of ballroom dancers, they think of all ages & all walks of life. When they think of a ballet dancer, or a bellydancer, they think of youth and a certain body type. So I think in that way, many people opt themselves out of multiple styles simply because of their own perceptions. (I'm too old, too heavy, too short, etc.)

I would suggest that "youth" in other styles is more than a matter of perception--or rather, that it's a perception that affects actions. Adult-oriented ballet classes (for example) can be hard to find outside of major cities. Adults may be nominally welcome in a studio's regular classes, but those classes aren't structured to accommodate adults, especially not adult beginners. Where adult classes are offered, the issue of youth becomes self-reinforcing: people opt out for the reasons you described and the classes don't succeed. At least, that's been my experience as a person who would gladly cross-train if more opportunities were available.

[Auntie Crazy]

Hey, I'm a belly dancer, too! (American Cabaret and Tribal.) Very nice to see others here! :D I take a couple BD lessons a week (I'd take more if I could find 'em) and they have helped me on the ballroom floor with balance, posture - and the ab strength to maintain them - as well as fluid arms and hips.

In the past, I've been an avid country dancer, but there's not enough time on my schedule today to effectively study more than two disciplines. Work and all that. ;)

[danceronice]

Yep, ballet would definitely be awkward as an adult beginner.

Also, no interest. I don't even watch SYTYCD because the only styles I'm interested in are classical ballet and ballroom, one of which they don't do and one of which they don't do THAT well, precisely because the format encourages jack of all trades, master of none. I like partner dancing, and I like the ballroom styles best. In my copious spare time </sarcasm> I'd rather work on cardio and strength-building than confuse the issue with another style.

[Casayoto]

Depends where you are danceronice. There are definitely adult beginner ballet options in NYC. I didn't start ballet until I moved here a couple years ago.

[wonderwoman]

CT in different forms of dance? I don't know, I am afraid I will get techniques confused. I already confuse elements of smooth and rhythm dances.

[and123]

taking heel leads in Rhythm again? :p

[soshedances]

Why don't ballroom dancers cross-train more?



Money. If it were not a factor, I would love to take more classes in ballet, jazz, even hip-hop. I have dabbled with other styles before, it's interesting to see what carries over from style to style, and what is different, and by how much.

[wonderwoman]

taking heel leads in Rhythm again? :p
Of course not!


:kitty: random cat

[MYLNYU]

I think I know the answer to this: time.

A lot of the Russian and Asian kids who start ballroom at a young age, here in the US or in another country, also do another form of dance/movement, besides doing 10-dance. I'm pretty sure Faina Savich and Daniella Karagach, as well as countless other top am and pros, have ballet and pointe training.

Most of us, however, started when we were teenagers or adults. With our higher priorities of work and school, we just don't have that much time to dedicate ourselves to other types of movement, unless dance is what we do for a living.

I was really able to cross train this summer because I didn't have regular work or school. I'm all for cross-training when I have the time; this summer, I have been taking Latin, Standard, ballet, jazz, swing, and yoga classes. It has really helped my muscle memory and kept my body in shape, and I learn something in every style that I can apply in my dancing.

[DL]

Oh, I forgot to ask in my earlier posts whether my judo counts. (Maybe not; it's still a partner activity.)

[hereKittyKitty]

I used to cross train a lot. I did Ballet, Jazz, Hip Hop, and Breakdance. But now, time and money just wont permit so I've been sticking to my standard training. Although, I'm constantly thinking up Jazz routines in my mind!
My partner was big into Break Dancing and Martial Arts. But, even he finds what we are working towards in Standard challenging enough. It takes a different mindset to do partner dancing as opposed to Individual dancing.

[MYLNYU]

Oh, I forgot to ask in my earlier posts whether my judo counts. (Maybe not; it's still a partner activity.)

I think judo definitely counts! Any martial arts should - these build flexibility, endurance, and strength.

[DL]

I think judo definitely counts! Any martial arts should - these build flexibility, endurance, and strength.

In my very first judo class, I learned, "Judo is a lot like ballroom dancing..." <whap> "...only the dips are different."

Later in life I learned -- whaddaya know, it was true...

[emkey]

though I'm still slow when it comes to retaining muscle memory compared to the other people in my club (1 guy has really good choreo memory skills because he's a varsity arnis athlete till recently when he quit to dance more avidly), I think my 6 years of karate-do in grade school helped build in working choreo, confidence, and lead but I think it partially is to blame for my ruined posture. A lot of the people in my club we're hip hop dancers in high school or before joining the club, two were in weight lifting in high school. My partner was a principal dancer in ballet in gradeschool -highschool and her first two years of college, another girl in my club is also the same they it was really good for developing their grace, their point, their flexibility but it was harder for them to get into the none-paso butt cheeks not tucked in and chest not pushed out look.

True we rarely have time to cross train but we do try. During the summer and sometimes right now in the school year since we have experienced athletes and dancers in other fields in our club we have them facilitate cross-training such as strength and body toning from our ex-arnis athlete, flexibility and floor techniques from our ballerinas. Sometimes we have some jazz warm ups or modern jazz flexibility training from our coach's friends in her studio.

My coach started in Jazz before going into latin. She spoke in an interview on a website that cross-training is very very important in developing stamina and strength as well as making sure you have your sexy physique. LOL funny story though, she hadn't taken up rhythmic gymnastics for a few years till she took a class again last year, she was asked to do a back-bend and her teacher pulled her waist and back up and her back started to "crack" lol fixing a lot of the "old bones" alignment issues she had recently

[Joe]

I don't really consider non-dance activities to be cross-training for ballroom.

[DancingMommy]

Why don't ballroom dancers cross-train more?

I don't know. I have training in ballet, tap and jazz as well as ballroom and latin. I find that my prior classical training has helped my ballroom immensely.

From ballet, I got posture and grace for smooth/standard. From pointe, I got callouses and bunions and toes of steel. I can stand on my toes in latin shoes and it just doesn't hurt. From tap, I got strong ankles and mad rhythm for both quickstep and rhythm/latin. From jazz, I got body isolations and strength for rhythm/latin. It's a win/win.

I think everyone should take lessons in another dance form to broaden their horizons. I believe classically trained dancers should take ballroom classes to broaden their horizons as well.

[DancingMommy]

Oh, I forgot to ask in my earlier posts whether my judo counts. (Maybe not; it's still a partner activity.)

I would say it does. My husband studied Shorinji Kenpo for many years before he came to the US and it's definitely helped him with his dancing. 500 squats as warm up/punishment by his master certainly developed his control and ability to lower for standard. ;)

I'm a firm believer that martial arts benefit the dancer because at the end of the day it's still rhythmic movement of the body in a pre-arranged series of steps/motions. Especially when you are working on kata. My husband was excellent at kata but not that great at sparring.

[chica latina]

Not many good adult classes in other disciplines in the area. Only group classes, and they generalize adult as beginners.. so decided to do pilates sessions instead.

[LauraB]

For Ballroom, I only think of NON-dance activities as cross-training, like weights, running, or yoga, etc. The problems with learning different styles of dance at the same time (as an adult), are the differences in technique. For example, you're trying to turnout your hips as much as possible in ballet, and that leads to problems in Standard if it becomes a habit, but you need it become a habit for ballet. If you have a background in other forms of dance, that's different, but trying to learn and get the muscle-memory of two opposite techniques at the same time can be confusing, on the body and mind. I see cross-training as helping to keep fit in order to dance better, stronger, with more stamina--strength training, cardio, and flexibility. Doing other dance styles doesn't necessarily provide any of those. That being said, I still enjoy taking ballet and jazz classes, but those techniques were drilled into me at a very young age. For cross-training purposes, I lift weights, jump rope, do yoga and pilates, etc...

[gracie]

My pro competed in all 4 styles and was a competitive gymnast. He also does one of the Martial arts.

[fascination]

for me it is simply a matter of time...I am at the gym for no less than seven hours a week...sometimes twice that... and taking lessons for 6...practicing another 4-6...it is hard to find more free time

[hereKittyKitty]

Not many good adult classes in other disciplines in the area. Only group classes, and they generalize adult as beginners.. so decided to do pilates sessions instead.
If you ever visit Atlanta, you should go to Dance 101 or Gotta Dance Atlanta. Nothing but adult classes for beginner through advanced. No kids stuff:)
But I agree, its hard to find Beg/Int/adv adult group classes for ballet, jazz, and modern. Most places offer mostly kids classes with only a few adult classes.

[Nik]

I know a lot of of people including myself that do a lot of other things to immprove their body control, other than just practicing their competitive stuff. I don't think you should do too much or really try to change yourself to be able to do something else, but learning and doing other things with the intention of helping your competitive dancing is a must.

[latingal]

long time no see Nik! good to see you post again....

[etp777]

Along lines of what Nik was saying, I know there have been a LOT of times during lessons, coachings, whatever, where something would suddenly just click due to a connection (either that I figured out, or more likely pro/coach made for me) allowing me to relate the movement to something I already knew from the various sports, etc I've done over the years. Heck, noticed that from very start when FP taught me a grapevine in FT and I felt like I was back running blocking drills on football field again. :)