Definition of Jump Swing

[swinginstyle]

What's your definition of jump swing? I recall reading an article one time in 5678 magazine. It seems similar to east coast single rhythm swing. So, what are the differences?

[Sagitta]

I believe that you are correct swinginstyle, but it also incorporates moves from other styles such as charleston. I'm actually a swing neophyte so check this link out as this guy taught me jump swing.

http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kpl5/f_jumpswing.html

[SDsalsaguy]

I've heard a few people call this an actual style of its own while others say it isn't. Any of our swing gurus have a take on this? Damon?

[LindyKeya]

Never heard of it before. But, from the sounds of it, it is just another name for what we call "Street Swing" here. To me, "Jump Swing" isn't a dance, but a style of music.

[pygmalion]

d nice did give his take on this in another thread. I don't remember what it was called, but I'll try to find it. He said it was not a unique dance, but some sort of variation. I don't remember what he called it, but I'll look.

That said, I've seen it done. It looks almost like ballroom jive -- very fast and energetic, with lots of jumping and kick-ball-changes. It looks like a lot of fun, actually. 8) Let me do a search, then, hopefully, I'll come back and post a link to that older thread. :D

[pygmalion]

Darn! I can't find it, beacuse I can't remember what I called it. I'll keep looking. It was cool, because it had a link to some video clips. Man! :evil: :(

[Swing Kitten]

Here's a snippet of what Damon has said about jump swing from the "aerials" thread

"Jump Swing" is the East Coast Swing variation "Jig Walk" or "Flash Kicks"... a number of ballrooms actually teach these variations. It is not a basic and not a dance in its own right and I think it is a huge diservice to students to imply that it is. They'll miss out on a number of the more interesting and fun moves/variations/rhythms.

[SDsalsaguy]

Thanks SK! I'd remembered the general comment but had forgot where to find it... :oops:

[pygmalion]

Yup. Thanks. I never would have found that. :roll: :D

[d nice]

Translation he thinks its a joke and not a real dance, but admits that anything gets anyone on the floor and dancing has a place somewhere.

Hopefully they'll decide swing is fun and actually learn a whole dance rather than some microscopic piece of a dance that someone has decided to teach as a unique style.

Here the infamous Blacksheep and I would agree... its a bastardization of a dance either out of ignorance or marketability would be my first two guesses. That said I've never met Kurt, and that website could be several years old, but there are lots and lots of inaccuracies.

[pygmalion]

:lol: :lol: How do you feel about that? :wink: :lol:

[dnquark]

its a bastardization of a dance either out of ignorance or marketability would be my first two guesses. That said I've never met Kurt,

I have met Kurt, he's a nice guy, actually. Why does he do it?.. Ignorance - no, marketability - maybe.

A huge problem is that jump swing is what he teaches in the introductory swing classes at Cornell - lots of people take those classes, and it tends to be their first exposure to swing (or to partner dancing). Maybe he thinks jump swing is more fun, energetic, and therefore holds greater appeal.

In some sense he is right: flash kicks are fun to do to faster, more energetic music. But teaching them as a basic is wrong and shortsighted. I've danced with people who took Kurt's swing classes, and they kept trying to do flash kicks to music that either called for the usual ECS step, or lindy.

Needless to say, it didn't quite feel right, and people were frustrated. Now, the majority of swing music that's typically played is not something that you would want to do flash kicks to, not for the whole song, anyway. So this frustration is quite common with those who take Kurt's classes, and then go out dancing in the "real world". Quoting a friend of mine, "...I tried jump swing, and they looked at me like I was from Mars." (After that, he started taking lindy :) ).

Unfortunately, Kurt's good at marketing, much more so than the local lindy crowd. The number of students that take lindy classes is almost negligible compared to the numbers Kurt has. Incidentally, Kurt also teaches lindy, in his intermediate/advanced class, but (a) this class has smaller enrollment, and (b) the damage at this point has been done.

To be fair, Kurt's trying his best to promote dancing (not limited to swing) on Cornell campus and in Ithaca in general. But his Jump Swing obsession, imho, runs counter to that goal.

[pygmalion]

Wow, dnquark. Thanks. 8)

[Sagitta]

Well, I agree that Kurt is promoting dance, and that is an admirable objective. However, if a person feels that a particular dance style/variation that is being taught does not lend itself to proper, or even simply appreciation of the swing family it behooves that person to do what they can to promote their vision. So here I agree with the comment that the local lindy crowd does not do a good job in promoting lindy. But if you are part of that community you also have a responsibility to do something to change that.

I do this all the time for latin dancing. You should listen to me work the crowd at a swing dance. Beginner says wow, you are a good dancer. I say thanks but I don't really like it. My heart and soul belongs to latin. Person says oh cool, I want to learn latin one of these days. I then proceed to list all the latin classes that are available, including free lessons that are at the beginning of community dances...or now I talk about the rueda class that I'm teaching tomorrow. Alternatively I say I'm not good at this dance, but I know a few others that I enjoy. And again the topic goes to latin dancing. A person says oh you are really smooth, and again the topic veers into latin dancing as that's where I learnt to dance smoothly. This is one of the reasons, among many that dancing with beginners is advantageous. I might sound like a one track person, but I have the results to prove it. People know that I'm willing to help anyone out with latin and they come to me and I get them started on their way.

I'm so hopelessly into latin that I can salsa and cha cha to swing songs. That's what I did tonight to a couple as someone asked me to try it out with them. And now that I am into casino rueda I'm working on getting it introduced as a taught dance in pre-existing dance classes at Cornell. A medium term goal, but I'm pretty confident I'm getting there. For instance, I am a member of the International Folk Dance group. Rueda is a folk dance, so I'm teaching it to them. Every time I attend I ask for a salsa, or bachata, to be played...

That was my first point. And secondly I disagree that people who have been taught jump swing are damaged goods. I don't really like even ECS much any more, but I dance with any of Kurt's jump swing students and within one dance I'll get them to dance a lot smoother. And I'm confident that once I've got lindy and WCS under my belt that still will be the case. Perhaps it is harder to dance with such people, in general, but I've talked to people about dancing and really good dancers have told me that they can lead such people.

Thirdly, when Kurt actually teaches swing he openly shows the different styles from single time swing, then when the music tempo increases, jump swing. When it slows down quite a bit it becomes triple step, triple step, rock step swing. Also Charleston and other dance styles, calling them by their proper names. Perhaps you may say that his use of the term "jump swing" is incorrect, and I will go along with what those more knowledgeable say about that, but I am happy to agree to disagree with what else people say.

What I have described in the above paragraph is what learnt from his swing dance class at Cornell. I used to do exactly what he taught me on Tuesdays at the local swing haunt at Wownet, before I got into latin dancing. I never felt that I was being stared at, or that people thought that I was from Mars because of my dance style, but that's me. I did feel people weren't into dancing with me, but that was due to other reasons, such as being musically challenged, which I still am. :oops: :)

[pygmalion]

You and dnquark both bring up some interesting points, Sagitta. I'm considering starting a thread on that, as well. Meaning, what's the balance between respecting swing's history and it's future development? Or how to find the middle ground between popularizing swing and keeping it pure, but esoteric? It seems that issue has come up in this forum indirectly, a few times. :roll:

About jump swing, I don't have any authority, but my preference would be that disinformation not be spread. If you want to teach jig walks, great. But to tell people that they're the basic for a new form of swing? That's misinforming people. Doesn't sit well with me. Jump swing still looks fun to me, though. 8)

[pygmalion]

See what I mean? Here's one of the Cornell jump swing pages. It clearly implies (although it doesn't state directly) that jump swing is a new swing dance style.

http://people.cornell.edu/pages/kpl5/jumpswing.html

[Sagitta]

I go up to one person last night and ask her to dance, then I tell her I don't know how to swing dance but we can do something together. As we dance she says you know to to dance swing. I just smile, and at the end of the dance she again says you know how to dance. Then I ask her if what I danced with her can really be called swing dancing, whether she say me do much of any particular style during our dance. She had to agree that I danced to the swing music, but I did not dance swing. I never say that I am dancing a particular style because I'm simply dancing to that sort of music. That is my personal philosophy.

However, pygmalion you did bring up a good point about naming and evolution of dances. When does what people consider a variant become a dance style in it's own right? Does there have to be a critical mass? If, so what is it? Do a certain number of swing dance authorities have to agree on it, before it becomes one, or does it have to become popular enough for there to be competitions in that variant/style?

[d nice]

When does something become its own style? I'd say when it takes a unique approach or offers something new to the swing dance genre it is a legitimate dance. In this case "jump swing" is nothing but a repackaged dance step promoted through misinformation and highlighted as special by lies.

Triple steps to hard at fast tempos? Well sure if you never teach them right. Ugh. If it takes six weeks to teach them to dance at these tempos... well frankly I can teach lindy hop, balboa, jitterbug etc. at the same tempos in six weeks that isn't a anything to be bragging about.

I see this every six months to a year when someone who has been doing martial arts just long enough to feel they know it all decides to take two or three martial arts they barely understand beyond the most basic level and create a "new" martial art that has all the answers.

When a dance is "artifically" created it is doomed to die out or be marginalized and eventually forgotten. Macarena anyone? Bossa Nova?