Do you learn MORE from a MEAN teacher?

[Cheery]

Was just thinking, while my pro is super courteous, nice, charming...that perhaps I would learn MORE if he were MEAN sometimes. As in MEAN/WORK ME HARDER/Not let me get away with anything.

During class recently I was so whiney and tired. I messed up the rumba walk completely and he usually starts the lesson making me do this around the entire room several times. Not only could I not do it properly, my lower back was aching because I just finished an exercise class.

He got something for me to hold on both hands to help me weigh them down and do the rumba walk, and I did not want to do it! What a brat. Come to think of it...why was I like that, after all, I am paying him to teach me, right? (I am sure some of you have had days like this?)

Ironically i had been practicing the walk at home for days and thought I was finally getting better/....then this!

Anyway, my subject is...a MEAN teacher, who does not let you get away with anything, would work you more, right. Pro just said I should not come to the studio tired.

During other incidents he has let me get away with things too, as i can see in his face if he is not pleased with what I am doing. Sometimes instead of correcting it he moves on to something else. There are a few times he is persistent when I can't get something, and he does it til I do...but for the most part I think he is too nice. (Surely he thinks this is the way to keep his students).

I'm very curious to know what people out there think about teachers who are "mean" at times to the point of forcing you to do something difficult til you get it. (This only happens mildly with my pro).

[wonderwoman]

I don't know. The trainers on Biggest Loser come to mind. lol They should be hard on the people they're training, it's literally life or death there. But with dancing, it's supposed to be fun. I would sacrifice speed of progress for enjoying the process of learning.

[JustLiving08]

Not sure if you mean "mean" in the sense of, someone who is more strict and more blunt/honest with their criticism (no sugar coating, so to speak).

I doubt I'll be able to work with a teacher who is too strict, but I don't want to work with one who is too lenient either and lets me get away with things that I shouldn't be getting away with. I need a nice balance between the two.

If you prefer them to be up front with you about your mistakes, I think it's a reasonable request and you should let your instructor know. One of my dance friends does this, she asks her teacher to be blunt and honest with her... if she sucks, she wants him to tell her that she's sucking. haha I'm a bit more sensitive and can't hand that type of criticism/honesty.

[Joy In Motion]

As has already been mentioned, it depends on your definition of "mean". But it also largely depends on the person and the situation. Everyone has a different personality and a different set of limits. Many good instructors are able to feel out each individual student and adjust according to what works for him or her. But then there are other instructors who are the same no matter who they are teaching. I personally think the art of adjustment is the mark of a great instructor, and I definitely feel myself doing this with everyone I teach, but someone who doesn't adjust may still be solid when it comes to instructing.

A teacher who motivates and disciplines as needed can be great, but if you are being taught by someone who just imparts knowledge maybe it puts the responsibility on you to create that motivation and discipline for yourself. Naturally, we each tend toward one or the other. I tend to do this for myself, so I don't expect instructors to do it, but as a fellow instructor I certainly can appreciate it when they have that ability.

[samina]

someone can be kind and still not let you get away with stuff... ;)

[fascination]

those things do not strike me as mean...they strike me as the sign of a good teacher....personal attacks are mean......

[Cheery]

Not sure if you mean "mean" in the sense of, someone who is more strict and more blunt/honest with their criticism (no sugar coating, so to speak).

I doubt I'll be able to work with a teacher who is too strict, but I don't want to work with one who is too lenient either and lets me get away with things that I shouldn't be getting away with. I need a nice balance between the two.

If you prefer them to be up front with you about your mistakes, I think it's a reasonable request and you should let your instructor know. One of my dance friends does this, she asks her teacher to be blunt and honest with her... if she sucks, she wants him to tell her that she's sucking. haha I'm a bit more sensitive and can't hand that type of criticism/honesty.

MEAN-MAKES YOU WORK HARD-NOT LENIENT-TELLS THE TRUTH EVEN IF UGLY.

I suppose because pro is too nice and courteous, I need to ply him for answers...I often say after a lesson, how did i do, and ask him to grade me! He never used to do this but not it's kind of customary. When I do something good he praises me, but I really need to know in more detail the progress.

Recently during bronze routine we were chachaing so fast and after that I said to him I felt like a machine, and felt I looked like one. He said that we would embellish this later on. It's very difficult for me because whenever he answers he is struggling with vocabulary and ideas and I don't know what he is saying. But in the end I get it.

Frankly I also don't like it when HE feels like a machine, even if we are only in class doing bronze syllabus. Ugh! If he is acting like a machine then so will i, as I mirror my partner obviously.

Let's wait and see the embellishments, we're going to do only syllabus for the next few months.

[dlgodud]

Someone who knows what they do, have correct information, and knows how to teach.

[NonieS]

i love blunt teachers.... i am always appreciative when they tell me I am doing something horribly... gives me something to practice :)

[DancingMommy]

At a coaching with Eddie Ares about a bazillion years ago, he was trying to get me to do something (I forget) and was just SO NICE. He apologized if he were being "too hard" on me. In a nutshell, I told him that I wasn't there for my self esteem, but to have it broken down and to actually learn and that getting tough wouldn't bother me in the least. 8)

For me, having a coach give me the low down and then expect *results* is just the way things are supposed to be. I don't want a pat on the back, I want to learn and improve. Besides which, I'm just a little skeptical of people who are super complimentary all the time... Who me, paranoid? ;)

[samina]

i love blunt teachers.... i am always appreciative when they tell me I am doing something horribly... gives me something to practice :)
i agree. i don't care for a socially acquiescent style. gimme straight-up and let's get goin'...but with a soft touch. :D

[Cheery]

i agree. i don't care for a socially acquiescent style. gimme straight-up and let's get goin'...but with a soft touch. :D

Ok I think I have to tell pro to be tougher with me. I think I should've changed the title of this thread. TOUGH TEACHER, not mean!

I want to hear it all, the good, the bad and the ugly!

[NonieS]

Besides which, I'm just a little skeptical of people who are super complimentary all the time... Who me, paranoid? ;)

Me too.... I always assume they are trying to kiss my behind and trick me into more lessons :P

[latingal]

Some people need or like to be pushed by their instructors, I am not one of them.

Give me the information and well paced feedback on what I am doing and need to correct and I will push myself to meet or exceed your (and my) expectations. If you do it in such a way that allows me to relax while we work (i.e. I'm not being yelled at), I'll learn faster. An added bonus to a more positive tone, I won't damage my self confidence by beating myself up and I'll perform better on the floor.

But I realize each individual is different, what works for me, might not work for others. If you're working long term with an instructor, and you think another methodology might work better for you - have a talk with him/her.

[dancelvr]

someone can be kind and still not let you get away with stuff... ;)


My pro to a "T"........ :-) Wouldn't trade him for gold.

[fascination]

Ok I think I have to tell pro to be tougher with me. I think I should've changed the title of this thread. TOUGH TEACHER, not mean!

I want to hear it all, the good, the bad and the ugly!
but you have also voiced that he struggles with how to articulate the concepts....this could be; 1) b/c he is a newb teacher and doesn't know how to, 2) b/c he is someone who has been dancing since three and can't explain it however good he may be, or 3) b/c he is an incrementalist and simply wants you to get certain concepts before throwing others in to concentrate on....my other concern is that you state that you are "still in syllabus for a little while longer"....I get the sense that you are fairly new and if what you want is to be good, I would recommend that you think about staying in syllabus for years...unless you have a very extensive dance history...dance progress is not a fast food endeavor...back to the mean thing: I don't appreciate mean...I never have...but neither do I need an instructor to be easy on me...I am not paying for an ego massage or a lesson that doesn't frustrate me...I am paying for a responsible man who shows up on time and teaches every minute of my lesson and makes me work hard b/c he does...he needn't be nice...as long as he isn't abusive....I have friends and family for support....my life got infinately better once I stopped wanting my instructor to care about my personal experience... he does have a responsibility to be polite....that is all...just my view

[CANI]

Some people need or like to be pushed by their instructors, I am not one of them.

Give me the information and well paced feedback on what I am doing and need to correct and I will push myself to meet or exceed your (and my) expectations. If you do it in such a way that allows me to relax while we work (i.e. I'm not being yelled at), I'll learn faster. An added bonus to a more positive tone, I won't damage my self confidence by beating myself up and I'll perform better on the floor.

But I realize each individual is different, what works for me, might not work for others. If you're working long term with an instructor, and you think another methodology might work better for you - have a talk with him/her.

Yes!! I agree completely

[CANI]

but you have also voiced that he struggles with how to articulate the concepts....this could be; 1) b/c he is a newb teacher and doesn't know how to, 2) b/c he is someone who has been dancing since three and can't explain it however good he may be, or 3) b/c he is an incrementalist and simply wants you to get certain concepts before throwing others in to concentrate on....my other concern is that you state that you are "still in syllabus for a little while longer"....I get the sense that you are fairly new and if what you want is to be good, I would recommend that you think about staying in syllabus for years...unless you have a very extensive dance history...dance progress is not a fast food endeavor...back to the mean thing: I don't appreciate mean...I never have...but neither do I need an instructor to be easy on me...I am not paying for an ego massage or a lesson that doesn't frustrate me...I am paying for a responsible man who shows up on time and teaches every minute of my lesson and makes me work hard b/c he does...he needn't be nice...as long as he isn't abusive....I have friends and family for support....my life got infinately better once I stopped wanting my instructor to care about my personal experience... he does have a responsibility to be polite....that is all...just my view

Yes on all counts!! I was also thinking #3 might be in play here.

[Cheery]

but you have also voiced that he struggles with how to articulate the concepts....this could be; 1) b/c he is a newb teacher and doesn't know how to,
I think it is more of a language problem, he has been teaching for some years now.
2) b/c he is someone who has been dancing since three and can't explain it however good he may be, or
Yes he can't really explain it. He has to show me with his body. To compare, I looked at some online instructional videos and found some from Monika Olejnik[/COLOR] [COLOR="red"]It's also obvious that English is not her first language but she is so CLEAR on explaining the positions, movements, twists, etc. Stuff my pro struggles with in explaining. I think I'll get these videos, anyone else out there try them?3) b/c he is an incrementalist and simply wants you to get certain concepts before throwing others in to concentrate on....my other concern is that you state that you are "still in syllabus for a little while longer"....I get the sense that you are fairly new
Yes, super new. Six months in. I have NO IDEA what Syllabus was until only very recently.

and if what you want is to be good, I would recommend that you think about staying in syllabus for years...unless you have a very extensive dance history...
Really, is this what people do? I suppose in the beginning of my lessons I was expecting to be danced with and led without being told what is next, but that is more like social dancing, isn't it. Then I noticed he always makes me do stuff like rumba walks, then the same steps and routines over and over again, little did I know this was syllabus and that is how people learn/are taught. Forgive my ignorance but I am a NONDANCE person and know no others, I just dared myself to finally walk into the dance school after driving past it so often, and having wanted to dance for years!
dance progress is not a fast food endeavor...back to the mean thing: I don't appreciate mean...I never have...but neither do I need an instructor to be easy on me...I am not paying for an ego massage or a lesson that doesn't frustrate me...I am paying for a responsible man who shows up on time and teaches every minute of my lesson and makes me work hard b/c he does...he needn't be nice...as long as he isn't abusive....I have friends and family for support....my life got infinately better once I stopped wanting my instructor to care about my personal experience... he does have a responsibility to be polite....that is all...just my view
Yes I totally understand what you are saying. I guess I just want this guy to be tougher on me because sometimes I walk out of there and he says I did good, and I don't feel it.

Lately I realize it is only myself that i can blame, as for the first few months I never even practiced (it didn't occur to me that I could practice alone, duh! Flash forward six months later, today, and I just spend two hours dancing to music and rehearsing all the bronze syllabus, by myself. If I had been doing this earlier, I would have learnt a million x more I am sure.
:):(:):(

[fascination]

that is what df is for...you help share what might be a more reasonable perspective...particularly for newcomers...your questions are excellent...but be kind to yourself in the process...if you begin to count errors in dancing as failures you might as wellstick you hand in a blender b/c that will be less painful...be patient with yourself and trust your pro for as long as it seems sensible to do so...he is a better judge of your progress than you are....but if you determine that your goals are serious, you need to make sure that he knows that....

[Ron]

My instructor and coach were very strict with me. I got away with nothing. I will be the first to admit that I have broken down in tears a few times once I was a good distance from the studio after a lesson and only becuse I was feeling that I hadn't given them my best. How did they treat me as a person? Fantastic. I loved them both. In fact I am still best friends with the women who was my instructor and pro/am partner for 10 years.

So it does come back to what you mean by "mean". Could I say my instructor and coach were mean to me when I didn't meet their expectations. I suppose, but in what I considered a good "mean" way. Strict, taskmasters, or better yet my instructor the dominatrix in court shoes. haha Did I experience one of the most important parts of all of this, "fun"? You better believe it. I love ballroom, never ever will you experience another thing in your life like this.

[NonieS]

Welcome, Ron!!!

[Cheery]

My instructor and coach were very strict with me. I got away with nothing. I will be the first to admit that I have broken down in tears a few times once I was a good distance from the studio after a lesson and only becuse I was feeling that I hadn't given them my best. How did they treat me as a person? Fantastic. I loved them both. In fact I am still best friends with the women who was my instructor and pro/am partner for 10 years.

So it does come back to what you mean by "mean". Could I say my instructor and coach were mean to me when I didn't meet their expectations. I suppose, but in what I considered a good "mean" way. Strict, taskmasters, or better yet my instructor the dominatrix in court shoes. haha Did I experience one of the most important parts of all of this, "fun"? You better believe it. I love ballroom, never ever will you experience another thing in your life like this.

Just curious, what was it that made you break down in tears?

[Ron]

Just me being way too hard on myself.

[j_alexandra]

Just me being way too hard on myself.

Oh, geez, another member of *that* club. :( However, I'm sure by how you've figured out how counterproductive that is. Even I have figured that out.

Welcome to DF, too!