Competitions???

[Sakura]

Hey all! I'm back again for another topic post! (Man, I'm on fire! :roll: )

I saw something in the topic Jenn posted: "Learning International Style -- The Big Plunge," which had said that most of the time, people who learned Int'l first were going to go straight into competitons.

I have never competed in my life; though I really want to! However, my mother does not want me to compete; I believe her biggest reasons are for cost: she does not want to have to go out and buy me the outfits for a competition, and she does not want to have to cart me around to different competitions. So, I know that I cannot compete until I get out on my own. :cry:

Besides this though, I *know* I'd need more lessons that those which I already get, to become that much better, to actually stand a chance in a comp.!

So, I was just wondering, for those of you who have competed before, what are comps. like? What does one need to do in order to get ready for a comp.?

Examples of questions:

How many lessons do you take before your competitions? (Do they increase, do they stay the same?)

Is choreography important? (i.e.: is your performance done entirely on a choreographed dance, or is it off the cuff leading?)

What does buying your outfit entail? What are the general expenses? What does your outfit *have* to have?

How long to competitions normally last? (I'm sure this has a base in how large the competition is.)

And, most importantly, I'd guess:

How hard is it to find a partner so you can compete? How do you go about finding a partner (I doubt it's entirely like placing a personal ad... :oops: :roll: )? Do you have to go through many before finding a partner that's right for you? What do you look for when searching for a partner?

:D I'm just so full of questions! I know there are quite a few there, so I really appreciate any answers I get! Thanks a ton!

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[cl5814]

Hey all! I'm back again for another topic post! (Man, I'm on fire! :roll: )

I saw something in the topic Jenn posted: "Learning International Style -- The Big Plunge," which had said that most of the time, people who learned Int'l first were going to go straight into competitons.

I have never competed in my life; though I really want to! However, my mother does not want me to compete; I believe her biggest reasons are for cost: she does not want to have to go out and buy me the outfits for a competition, and she does not want to have to cart me around to different competitions. So, I know that I cannot compete until I get out on my own. :cry:

Besides this though, I *know* I'd need more lessons that those which I already get, to become that much better, to actually stand a chance in a comp.!

So, I was just wondering, for those of you who have competed before, what are comps. like? What does one need to do in order to get ready for a comp.?

Examples of questions:

How many lessons do you take before your competitions? (Do they increase, do they stay the same?)

Is choreography important? (i.e.: is your performance done entirely on a choreographed dance, or is it off the cuff leading?)

What does buying your outfit entail? What are the general expenses? What does your outfit *have* to have?

How long to competitions normally last? (I'm sure this has a base in how large the competition is.)

And, most importantly, I'd guess:

How hard is it to find a partner so you can compete? How do you go about finding a partner (I doubt it's entirely like placing a personal ad... :oops: :roll: )? Do you have to go through many before finding a partner that's right for you? What do you look for when searching for a partner?

:D I'm just so full of questions! I know there are quite a few there, so I really appreciate any answers I get! Thanks a ton!

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

Sakura,

I'll answer some of your questions....
Finding an amateur partner to compete is really hard. That is why most competitors choose to go Pro/Am. However there are sites like dancepartner.com that has helped me get in touch with potential dance partners. You can check out the website to get an idea of what i am talking about. Talk to your fellow dancers and make it known that you are looking for a practice or competing partner, maybe ask around in your group classes (if you are attending any).
Accessdance.com website lists quite a few upcoming competitions. If you follow the links to the competitions and look under the rules of the competitons, you will see the dress code that you will need to adhere to - every competition can be different. For beginner level competitors, the dress is just plain and simple, probably something you already have in your closet.
Competitions are normally held over a "long" weekend - starting either thursday or friday, ending either saturday night or sunday.
You don't need any number of lessons before you can compete, that is exactly what the newcomer category is for, people with minimal (if at all) experience with competitions.

[spatten]

I will try to answer your questions on a point by point basis below. However it might be useful to talk about different competition styles first as that will have a huge impact on the cost, nubmer of dances, and most of your questions.

You can dance three different styles of competition. Pro/Am, Am/Am, and Pro/Pro.

Pro/Pro is a tough circuit, and you are up against people who dedicate their lives and livliehoods to dancing. Lets assume otherwise for the moment.

Pro/Am is usually an relatively expensive way to compete. You can compete at any level, from dancing for a month to dancing for many many years. You are supposed to compete against people your own level.
You can compete in American, International or both. You will be paying your coach to dance with you. These competitions are usually held in hotels and occur every weekend.

Am/Am is a much cheaper method of competition. You will need to find a amatuer partner, and practice together. There tends to be more pmetition in International than American - but you could easily do one or the other or both. There are not as many levels of competition as there are Pro/Am but there are usually more people to dance against. The competitions are usually held at a college, or at a USABDA event.

To yourquestions...
How many lessons do you take before your competitions?
This is entirely up to you. Many Pro/Am's I know will be in the studio many hours a week or two before comp. In general knowing you are going to compete gives you a solid goal to work to, and most people learn faster or work harder.


Is choreography important At the syllabus levels, choreography is not usually important. You can do routines, but you can also go and just do lead/follow of basic patterns. At the higher levels more people will do routines, or at least groups of steps.

What does buying your outfit entail Again this depends on the level. Usually at Necomer or Bronze level costumes are not allowed - so it is cheap. Dancing above those levels usually requires a ballgown. You can spend as much as you want on a gown. Some people make their own, but this usually requires a lot of prior knowlegde. Gown are available for rent for a single comptition, I am not sure of the cost. Or you can buy a used gown for a few hundred dollars on up. New gowns are usually 1500+. I will let the ladies add more....

How long do competitions normally last? . This depends. Pro/Am comps are usually spread over 3 days of the weekend. You may be dancing just one day - or over many. Note that it gets expensive quick to dance in these heats - usually 30$+ per dance(1min45s)
Am/Am comps are usually held in 1 day,though some may go longer. You may have several rounds to dance through, when you make it through quarters, semis's and finals. Either way many people will stay the whole day and enjoy watching everybody dance.

How hard is it to find a partner? ...
I believe this is the most difficult part of ballroom dancing. There are usually more women then men dancing, so followers tend to have a harder time finding a partner. This tends to reverse at the higher levels of dancing, and men may have a hard time finding a parnter. The actual ability of the partner is usually less important for many years. The good news is that there is every chance you will find a partner soon. The bad news is that I have been looking for a partner for about 3 years with no good ladies taking the bait- so it can take awhile.

I would definately place personal ads, but that doesn't seem to be the way most people end up finding their partners. Talk to people you know who dance, put your name out therre with coaches that travel, go to local competitions.

What I look for most in a parnter is...

1) Height. Being 6'2" I just can't dance with 5'1 and make it look good.
2) Friendly. We are going to be practicing a lot, and I won't tolerate someone that can't enjoy and be pleasant.
3) Location. It would help if she was in the same state.
4) Dedication. You both have to want similar goals about have the same amount of deisre to practice.
5) Heart. I am not as concerned about ability- but if she wants to learn she probably will.

In close, I just want to say that I think competitions are a lot of fun - and you will really enjoy the opportunity if you get the chance. I would strongly recommend watching one first, to see if you like the idea. Go from there.

Scott


PS - Is it obvious that I don't have much to do at work today? :)

[SDsalsaguy]

PS - Is it obvious that I don't have much to do at work today? :)
I think that, perhaps, I may have noticed a trace of that... :wink:

[mamboqueen]

6'2" ??!! I'd consider a move to Texas! God, I have such a hard time finding tall leads!

As for the dresses, I would recommend wearing a latin costume or ballgown at bronze level UNLESS the rules otherwise prohibit it. I will tell you that I truly believe at my most recent competition, the woman who placed behind me did so partially on account of being "under-dressed". You can definitely find used stuff on the net, but it's a gamble. I think ballroomdancers.com has a pretty good search set up and they have escrow services so when you get the dress from someone, you don't actually release the money until you are satisfied with what you got. Less opportunity to be taken to the cleaners.

There is a pretty good rental website called rythmic rentals; nice stuff. I had my dress made, but if I get sick of it, I'd definitely consider renting.

Pro-ams are pretty pricey and one downside you can have is that you have no competitors in your level/age group. As much as I get the nerves before a competition, I would hate to have none.

[cl5814]

6'2" ??!! I'd consider a move to Texas! God, I have such a hard time finding tall leads!



Yes, at 5'9 even finding a tall instructor can be a challenge for me. They say 2-3 inches difference are perfect.

[Laura]

How many lessons do you take before your competitions? (Do they increase, do they stay the same?)

I've been taking two Pro/Am lessons per week for about 7 years now. I don't change the fequency of lessons unless something comes up, like my teacher is out of town and so can't teach on my regular days. I do solo practice outside of lessons, and sometimes for the month before a competition I will increase the amount of practice, but I've never been one to "cram before an exam," as it were. I see preparation as being a long-term ongoing thing rather than something you do differently right before the comp.

Is choreography important? (i.e.: is your performance done entirely on a choreographed dance, or is it off the cuff leading?)

When I was doing Pro/Am Standard, it was about half led and half choreographed, but I knew that anything could change at any moment. It was actually rather thrilling when we went out of the routine and everything kept working great. I've recently switched to Smooth, so I'm completely new at it, and my routine is 100% choreographed because it's all new to me.

What does buying your outfit entail? What are the general expenses? What does your outfit *have* to have?

If you are competing in Pro/Am in newcomer or in lower-level bronze, you can totally get by without a fancy dress. If you are competing in Amateur events, you aren't even allowed to wear a costume until you get out of syllabus. The dresses are extremely expensive. That's why I learned to make my own!!!!!! You can buy used dresses, and borrow or rent them, the best thing to do is to ask around your studio if you do actually need a costume. A new dress can run from about $1800-$5000 (or more), and Latin dresses aren't much less expensive even though they use so much less fabric :-) Used dresses can run from about $800-$2500. Or, if you can figure out how to do it, you can make yourself a very nice syllabus-level Pro/Am dress for about $300.

How long to competitions normally last? (I'm sure this has a base in how large the competition is.)

You don't have to be there for the whole thing, but some start Thursday or Friday evenings and go on to Sunday night. Others are one-day or even half-day affairs. All-amateur comps tend to be shorter in the US than Pro-Am comps.

How hard is it to find a partner so you can compete?

Very, but it's worth it in terms of money saved. It might cost you $500-$1000 in entry and ticket fees plus fees to your teacher to dance in four or five one-dance events plus a multi-dance scholarship in a Pro/Am competition. Or, you can dance with an amateur partner and pay about $25-$100. And then there's the money saved by splitting lessons with your partner!

How do you go about finding a partner? (I doubt it's entirely like placing a personal ad... :oops: :roll: )?

Actually, if you place an ad online in any of the partner search sites, it is rather like like placing a personal ad! The best way to find a partner is to not give up and to always keep your eyes and ears open. Ask other teachers at your studio, go to parties and group classes at other studios, approach guys you see doing Pro/Am at competitions, let everyone you know that you are looking. If you see someone you like who already has a partner, don't try to steal him but do keep your eye on him -- you never know when a partnership will break up and if you already think you might like to try out with the guy then step up to it as soon as you hear that he's breaking up with his old partner.

Do you have to go through many before finding a partner that's right for you?

Yes, and some people might not ever actually find the ultimately right person either. But then, you might get lucky early on too. You never know.

What do you look for when searching for a partner?

I was looking for someone to dance Over-35 Standard with, so height and age and body type were very important. I'm big. Hell, I'm FAT, so I couldn't really dance with some skinny guy because it would make things look even worse :-) I also look for schedule compatibility, and similarity of degrees of interest, committment, and goals. I also look for compatible attitudes towards dancing and competing in general. See, I'm very very laid back about dancing and competing these days, so it woudln't do for me to get hooked up with someone who was very driven -- what I'm getting at is that it helps to find someone who's expectations and ability to execute on them are similar to yours.

The last thing I look for is the actual dancing. A friend of mine once wisely said that you can't change someone's body or their personality or their age, but the one thing that can change in a dance partnership is the dancing. So, rather than looking for an expert, I say look for someone who you click with. Maybe you're a bit behind the other person technique-wise, but you feel confident that the other person will be patient and recognize your hard work while you catch up. Or maybe you're a bit ahead of the other person, but you know they are earnestly working on improving themself and you can feel the improvement and are excited by the development process.

[Chris Stratton]

Here are links to two threads from the past few weeks where I and some others partially addressed a few of your questions:

Low-cost/legal costumes for restricted competitions:
http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=3400

Draft of article on entering/winning newcome competitions:
http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=3730

It sounds like you are just under college age - if that is true, you should fit in fine in collegiate competitions now, or whenever you move on to college - so if there are any held where you are, that may be a good, very inexpensive, way to get started.

[Sakura]

Wow guys!!!! :D :D All this help has been GREAT!!! I really can't wait until I can start competing--but *WOW,* am I gonna need a GREAT job before it looks like I can *finance* these fun ventures! :lol: :lol: =^_^=;;

Scott, I can't see *any* free-time there on the job! You must have a slave-driver for a boss! :wink: Great post; thanks so much!

*Making* the dresses?!?!? :shock: :shock: I don't think I could do that! I crochet; that's about it! :D :roll: But, wow, kudos to you who make your dresses!

It sounds like you are just under college age - if that is true, you should fit in fine in collegiate competitions now, or whenever you move on to college - so if there are any held where you are, that may be a good, very inexpensive, way to get started.

*grins* Well, actualy, I'm only going to be a high-school junior next year; in full truth, I won't even be 18 when I graduate! So, I will turn 18 in October of my College Freshman year. :? Bad thing is, is that I'll be in Evansville, IN for my 4 years of Undergrad. (I wanna be a doctor, so after that, it's back to Indy for my 4 years of Med. school, provided I even get in!! :? :) I'm nervous, but I know that if I work hard, I'll get in!), so I don't think there are any competitions, let alone *dance* schools there! Of course, 2 out of 4 of those years are going to be overseas (Soph. in France and Jun. in Japan), so I doubt I'm going to be competing until after med. school!

*strokes her chin* Hmm... I shall have to devise a way to make time for myself... I would love to start competing as soon as possible! Also, thanks for those links; they look really great, so I'll be getting on my way to them very soon!

=^__^= *petting egos* You guys are awesome; keep the info and tips coming, please! :wink:

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[spatten]

Any tall ladies who enjoy ballroom are more than welcome to come on down to Texas - Dallas in particular. :) Shorter ones are welcome too - just have to do Latin.

My coach is 5'6 and an excellent dancer - but I still find I can't quite swing the same as with someone who is say 5'9". Did I mention I love dancing with a lady that is 5'9? :) I did have the opportunity to dance with a lady who must have been 6'5. Now that was eye opener.

Yes, Sakura height is important. Ballroom is the ONLY hobby that has ever made my want to be shorter.

Well enough Hijiacking...
Cheers,
Scott

[mamboqueen]

Well, I'm afraid my friend for Virginia might get the tall Texan as I'm a *mere* 5'7"! Although I do pilates now, and I'm told you can actually grow an inch!!

Seriously, most of the men I dance with are 5'10 or thereabouts. I did dance with one guy last week who was 6'4" and the poor guy even had to hunch a little with me. I danced with another guy who was shorter than me and his right hand was a little on the *low* side of my back. That's where it gets tricky for me.

And Scott, I'm with you 100% on the wishing I was shorter for dancing. I try not to think of it too much though, because my mother used to be 5'6" and now that she's pushing 70, she's around 5'3". So, although I pop my calcium and do my exercise, I'm sure there's some shrinkage in my future.

[Chris Stratton]

My 'little' brother surpassed me in height several years ago. Visiting our parents a few months after I started dancing everyone was suddenly very confused "wait, I thought David was taller?".

So we actually did a back-to-back comparison. And he is taller, though you wouldn't have thought it to see us simply standing near each other.

Dancing won't make you taller... it will just make you LOOK taller.

[etchuck]

... Bad thing is, is that I'll be in Evansville, IN for my 4 years of Undergrad. (I wanna be a doctor, so after that, it's back to Indy for my 4 years of Med. school, provided I even get in!! ... *strokes her chin* Hmm... I shall have to devise a way to make time for myself... I would love to start competing as soon as possible! Also, thanks for those links; they look really great, so I'll be getting on my way to them very soon!

Oh come now... if you go to near Indianapolis, it's not going to be like you're in a dance wasteland. See this link (USABDA Heartland Classic website) (http://www.indyusabda.org/).

[Sakura]

Thanks for the link etchuck! I'm only really worried for while I'm in Evansville though. I'll be about 4-4 1/2 hours away from my dance studio!! :cry: :cry: I'm gonna miss them so much!

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[robin]

I think a lot of US colleges have dance clubs, and if you end up in one that doesn't, it's usually quite easy to found a new club. You could even try to create one at your school or in your community...

I don't think competing has to be expensive. Finding a partner is not as hard as some people make out, so long as you don't have unreasonable expectations. I would always opt for Am/Am though. How could you possibly practice enough with your partner if you have to pay them $$$s every time? I feel like i don't get enough out of my private lessons if i don't have at least 5 if not 10 hours of practice with my partner before it.

Anyway, I don't think competing has to be expensive until you get to a very high level (where you do need expensive costumes and lots of travel). You can practice in any church/community hall very cheaply or even for free, you can wear nice, simple outfits, you can share the cost of a private lesson with your partner once a week... of course this is all a lot easier as part of a college (or other) dance club, but it's still possible if you and your partner are out on your own...

Good luck with the competitions!

Robin

[Sakura]

I think a lot of US colleges have dance clubs, and if you end up in one that doesn't, it's usually quite easy to found a new club. You could even try to create one at your school or in your community...

I'm not quite sure about USI (University of Southern Indiana); but you're right about making a new club! Apparently, it only takes two people to start one! However, I'd only have a year to enjoy it before I'd be off for France (I hope!) and after that, it'd be on to Japan! So, I'd have my last year to enjoy it too, I suppose.
....Saaaaaay, anybody know any good schools in France?! :D :wink:

I don't think competing has to be expensive. Finding a partner is not as hard as some people make out, so long as you don't have unreasonable expectations. I would always opt for Am/Am though. How could you possibly practice enough with your partner if you have to pay them $$$s every time? I feel like i don't get enough out of my private lessons if i don't have at least 5 if not 10 hours of practice with my partner before it.

I wish it weren't expensive -- but you're right; from what I've heard, those higher levels are *killer* on one's budget unless you take steps to avoid that, like making your own dress, as was stated on this post earlier by Laura. I'd like to think my expectations wouldn't be unreasonable, but I love to dance, as much as I can, I will, so maybe I'd just have to tell my partner, "You don't have to dance as much as I do, but dancing often would be great!" :wink: :lol: :lol: 5-10 hours?!?! :shock: :shock: I *wish* I had that much time dancing! (Wish I could do that for lessons, too, but that's a *little* too much money... :wink: 8) )

Anyway, I don't think competing has to be expensive until you get to a very high level (where you do need expensive costumes and lots of travel). You can practice in any church/community hall very cheaply or even for free, you can wear nice, simple outfits, you can share the cost of a private lesson with your partner once a week... of course this is all a lot easier as part of a college (or other) dance club, but it's still possible if you and your partner are out on your own...

Good luck with the competitions!

Once I get into competitions (once I'm out of the house, as my mum won't have any of it :cry: ), all of these ideas are great! And I shall take that luck when I come to the point where I'll need it! =^_~= Thanks Robin!

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

(PS- As a token of my friendship, I solemnly swear, I will *not* eat you! As much as my kitty instincts may warrant that I should, on my hounour, I won't! =^_~= And that's a promise! :wink: :twisted: :lol: )

[dancing_moogle]

approach guys you see doing Pro/Am at competitions, let everyone you know that you are looking. If you see someone you like who already has a partner, don't try to steal him but do keep your eye on him -- you never know when a partnership will break up and if you already think you might like to try out with the guy then step up to it as soon as you hear that he's breaking up with his old partner.


Hey, I know it's wierd to bring up old threads like this, but I have a short question regarding finding a partner. How can I approach a guy in a pro/am comp without looking like I'm trying to steal him?

[pygmalion]

If he's dancing pro-am with his teacher, technically speaking, you wouldn't be stealing him, unless he decided to quit pro-am. Well... hmm. Maybe you can catch him when the teacher's not around? :roll: :lol:

[Laura]

If a guy is dancing Pro/Am then I see there being absolutely no problem appoaching him about an amatuer partnership. If his teacher gets all weird about it, then that's just too freakin' bad for her. And for him. Some teachers are controlling and don't want their students in amateur partnerships for a variety of reasons (or excuses). Others realize that their positions as teachers mean they are first and foremost there to teach and to help their students realize whatever dance goals they have. And if one of the guy's goals is to have an amateur partner, then his teacher had better not complain when amateur women approach him. And if it's not his goal to have an amateur partner, then he'll tell you himself when you approach him.

[dancing_moogle]

OK, then what about when someone already has a partner? How can I go about approaching him? Should I talk to him when his partner is not around? :?

[standardgirl]

OK, then what about when someone already has a partner? How can I go about approaching him? Should I talk to him when his partner is not around? :?

I would try to dance with him at some sort of social setting if possible, and then while chatting, let him know that you are partnerless, and you like the way he dances.

[pygmalion]

LOL. Then remove his current partner's knife from between your shoulder blades. :roll: A good partner is hard to find.

[ThreeStep]

A good partner is hard to find.

Hoho...

ThreeStep
(feels, or felt, rather, the pain)

[swan]

OK, then what about when someone already has a partner? How can I go about approaching him? Should I talk to him when his partner is not around? :?
That's not too ethical...You can always put your radar on, in case the partnership does dissipate on its own...

[Laura]

If you find someone you like who already has a partner, just keep an eye on him and your ear to the ground. If/when he and the partner break up, make your move and ask for a tryout. Timing is everything -- if you wait too long, someone else will grab him if he's any good.