Degree of difficulty in WCS

[Spitfire]

Just wondering what others thought are in about leaders and followers role in WCS, I've generally heard that the followers role is more challenging than it is for the leader.

[Dancelf]

Just wondering what others thought are in about leaders and followers role in WCS, I've generally heard that the followers role is more challenging than it is for the leader.

I don't know of anybody that has danced both parts that believes the follower has the more challenging role.

Much more common is to hear followers, after trying to lead for the first time, exclaim some variation of "I'm never going to be critical of a novice leader again - I had no idea."


The only thing I've come across which is remotely a match is the observation that leaders are dancing the same five cheesy moves all night long; followers get a different set of five cheesy moves each time they change partners.

[Joy In Motion]

I honestly don't know why people feel the need to characterize one role or the other as more difficult. Both require just as much skill, just of a different type. It takes a lot to learn how to lead and choreograph the dance, but it also takes a lot to learn how to be responsive to the leader, let go of anticipating what the leader may be doing next, develop the ability to follow the moves/patterns of a variety of leaders, adjust one's styling to fit the leader, etc. I find that leaders have just as much difficulty learning how to really follow well.

When I get this question or observation, that's typically how I answer. I mostly (but not always) get it from couples who are trying to prove that their role is more challenging, and as an instructor I like to stop the argument by pointing out both sides of the equation. :)

[RickRS]

I like that answer from Joy; we have our roles and they aren't the same but they are equally important and equal challenging, just in different ways.

[w88dm4n]

In the very beginning, I think the leads certainly have the more challenging job.

Give it a year, and it is much more about what you make of it. If the leader sticks to simple patterns and does not grow, the follow may try to make up for his 'boring' leads, which makes her job much harder. If the follow never takes the initiative to learn to style, play, syncopate, or otherwise express herself, sure she has an 'easy' role. Another perspective is when does the individual dancer decide to slow/stop their growing and not progress much further?

When I watch advanced couples, it is really challenging to figure out who's job is more difficult. The exception I've observed that annoys me: sometimes I see the advanced leads doing what people call advanced footwork, which is comprised of standing in one place and making her do a really complicated pattern.

-Rick

[Flat Shoes]

I honestly don't know why people feel the need to characterize one role or the other as more difficult.
I'd say for the sake of discussing the different elements and what is difficult about them. It's not so interesting who "wins", but it is interesting to learn and understand the challenges compared to each other.

Also it is the never ending topic of followers who go to higher level classes, because they think their job is easier and that they disrupt less by not being at the same level as the leaders.

And personally I see more value in being able to have such discussions, even when they are meaningless, than trying to stay politically correct all the time. :)

[Joy In Motion]

I'd say for the sake of discussing the different elements and what is difficult about them. It's not so interesting who "wins", but it is interesting to learn and understand the challenges compared to each other.

Also it is the never ending topic of followers who go to higher level classes, because they think their job is easier and that they disrupt less by not being at the same level as the leaders.

And personally I see more value in being able to have such discussions, even when they are meaningless, than trying to stay politically correct all the time. :)

I think you are misunderstanding me (or maybe I didn't communicate my point of view as well as I could have). I personally believe the discussions are great actually, which is why I often participate in them, and I don't think they are meaningless. It's not about being politically correct (I've actually never been accused of that, usually the opposite, so that made me chuckle :)) but about asking the right questions instead of ones that seem to close doors instead of opening them. I'm mostly thinking of what started the thread, which has to do with dancers who hear that one or the other of the two roles is more challenging and wanting a quick answer. Or with leaders who insist that their role is more difficult.

I like the point you made about followers indicating they believe their role to be easier as well because they often get bored with the technique and mechanics that will make them better and jump to advanced level classes before they are ready. Both leaders and followers do this of course, but in general followers are a little more likely to ignore the fine-tuning because they are able to execute the move itself with a moderate degree of success.

[tsb]

hey, tom: in any dance where there is lead and follow, the lead has to both lead *and* follow - particularly when the follow does something the leader does not expect (and then decide whether to insist on what's been led, or act like what the follow did is what the lead meant, or some combination in between). but the lead's physical movements are often less challenging, in terms of spins and turns. still, a *good* lead must also exercise a decision making process as to what figure to choose factoring in the phrasing of the music as well as the following/styling/hijacking proficiency of the person following. as such, i would submit that the leads have somewhat more to do at the mental level, but this is offset somewhat by the follows needing to remain more in what i'd describe as a state of heightened anticipation, which can require a lot of effort as well. but then a good lead has do that as well on a crowded floor remaining vigilant for potential collisions, etc.

[McArtor]

I'll add to this discussion with this... West Coast Swing is a 50/50 dance. each partner is responsible for their part. One of the aspects that makes it so unique and entertaining. You add your own personality to the dance. As a Lead who can also follow, I am a firm believer that the "LEAD" only initiates momentum and direction and allows the "FOLLOW" to get from point A to point B under her own power and styling. The Lead must have more technical skills to be a "good" lead. rotation of the hips, moving from center, connection, compression, etc... With these skills, the lead can make most novice dancers perform to the best of their ability. the follow on the other hand, may get tired of the same 5 simple patterns that are being led but with more skill and practice can turn those 5 into 35 with good footwork, hijacking, and syncopations. Bottom line is, both parts are difficult for beginners and as you progress, the more experienced dancer can dictate the dance and make the less experienced dancer's job that much EASIER.

[Ray Sison]

I find that both parts are challenging (experiencing them firsthand). I am not a WCS afficionado--but when WCS is done well, it is truly something to behold...

[kmaitland]

Just wondering what others thought are in about leaders and followers role in WCS, I've generally heard that the followers role is more challenging than it is for the leader.

*Grin*

Just an aside - this is a question to ask the WCS guys from Toronto. We went through a period where the guys were constantly following! One Angel workshop, none of us gals got to dance with Angel because the guys were hogging him. And to be clear, this was not about gender preference - it was all about the challenge of knowing both functions of the dance.

Anyway as someone who leads on occasion in a number of dances, I would argue that it's WCS that is the challenge - not the the leading or following in it. Compared to east coast or the ballroom dances, WCS does not have the same comfort of frame - it's "open" much of the time. I find that WCS does not have the same control that the other dances do - so much more trust is required.