Dance Tips for Men and Women

[danceguy]

Just found this, give it a read. I especially enjoyed #3! :twisted:

Tips for Shy Men (http://www.salsadance.com/tips%20for%20shy%20men.htm)

And for the Ladies!

Tips for Shy Women (http://www.salsadance.com/tips%20for%20shy%20women.htm)

SG

[Sagitta]

I like that one about "I'm not asking you about your morals". I'm definitely going to try it out on one of mu non-dancing acquaintances :) Not soemthing I would try on a stranger, though. When a person doe snot know and hesitates to dance I don't think that is something they want to hear.

[dr daffy]

haha, those are interesting... good tips :wink:

[salsachinita]

The best way to get more dances is to be SEEN out there having fun (ok, NOT at the expense of the others)!

Your exuberance will draw the others to you 8) .

Ask, but NEVER take rejection personally. It happens to all of us, and there could be a million & one factors (eg. he/she got their minds set on someone else, having an off-night etc.). I get rejected regularly, but those who reject me generally ask me to dance later (same night or the next) anyway.

[danceguy]

Good point SC...but it can be very hard to be seen having fun if the only available dance partners all turn you down (been there once or twice). To be able to be noticed that you are having fun, someone has to say yes to you...so the more people do this, the more you will see them dance!

Of course, this is coming from a guy where the men far outnumber the ladies at all the dance venues... :?

SG

[squirrel]

SG, why don't you guys invite each other then? Find a guy who can dance as a woman and dance with him... :) I'm not joking... I do that here... I invite ladies, and I'm a lady... but a lady who knows how to lead... so, if there are very few guys, I dance with girls... :)

The tips are great... the 'socially-retarded behaviour' is very common in my club too... but there are some girls who have evolved :) (I'm one of them...). Nice topic anyway

[Sabor]

The best way to get more dances is to be SEEN out there having fun (ok, NOT at the expense of the others)!
Your exuberance will draw the others to you 8)
that is very very true


Ask, but NEVER take rejection personally
i believe this would be one of my weakness points in dance :?
i understand the implications of it.. but i have to say that no matter what i still have trouble accepting it.. i just dont like it.. and cant help to take it personally on some levels cause i'm the one being turned down, no matter what the excuse unless its really a problem like u cant stand on your feet anymore, u need to run to the bathroom or explode, u twisted your ankle, the person asking smells bad, they are sleazers etc..

Thankfully i dont get rejected much, yet still can't get myself to be ok with it unless the lady is a personal good friend of mine and i know her well.. thats why i implore all to not reject anyone unless the circumstances are indeed dire or that both of u are very used to each other that its ok ..

when this happens to me.. i try one more time later, just for the benefit of the doubt, and if its another rejection i just dont never ask her again.. and when they come later asking me i usually refuse in return, then a little later i go to them and say "that didnt feel good did it?" .. :roll:

[pygmalion]

These are good tips, SG. Being shy isn't a problem for me, but some of the tips apply across the board, I think. 8)

[salsachinita]

A lot of salseros out there I know seem to have similar opinions as Sabor.

Generally, so I got told........there's a '3-time-strike' rule: "ask her once, ask her twice, but NEVER the third time!"

Do you guys out there ALL share this practice.....? Should the girls adopt it too......? Am I a push-over in accepting otherwise :? .......?

*for crying out loud all I want is a dance :roll: ......nothing more*

[Sabor]

know what.. i'd really rather a lady tells me straight up that she doesn't prefer dancing with me for whatever reason.. i'd totally accept/respect that without second thought.. instead of the misleading 'sorry not now, just need a breather' etc. and the rest of the laim excuses list that are quite obviously not the case.. one can tell u know.. or atleast i think i can.. so there's no need for excuses at all i believe.. honesty will do much better even if its negative.. after all its just chemistry.. we share it with some and not others.. accepteable fact of life.. no need for misleading here because then it gets personal.

[Sagitta]

A lot of salseros out there I know seem to have similar opinions as Sabor.

Generally, so I got told........there's a '3-time-strike' rule: "ask her once, ask her twice, but NEVER the third time!"

Do you guys out there ALL share this practice.....? Should the girls adopt it too......? Am I a push-over in accepting otherwise :? .......?

*for crying out loud all I want is a dance :roll: ......nothing more*

Well...if I ask a person a couple times and they say no, they dance with others, and give me lame excuses when I ask them, I won't ask them that night. I might try once another night, then I will just ignore them from then on. I know that certain people dance only certain styles etc etc, but since I'm willing to do whatever style they are used to, though I may not be able to necessarily execute as many moves as the style that I am most comfortable with, I will do not consider this a reasonable excuse.


SG, why don't you guys invite each other then? Find a guy who can dance as a woman and dance with him... I'm not joking... I do that here... I invite ladies, and I'm a lady... but a lady who knows how to lead... so, if there are very few guys, I dance with girls...

The tips are great... the 'socially-retarded behaviour' is very common in my club too... but there are some girls who have evolved (I'm one of them...). Nice topic anyway

The issue is that there are a lot fewer men who can and are willing to dance as follows compared to ladies. Nice suggestion squirrel, but I think SG will have even less luck with that. It's the really good dancers who can do both roles and they are usually busy dancing with the ladies.

[salsachinita]

You said it, Sabor!

In addition to that, I also really appreciate it when guys turn me down very quickly! Becuase this means I STILL have time to ask someone else before it's too late for that song :P !

Afterall, we don't wanna waste a perfectly good song now, do we :wink: ?

[pygmalion]

I like the way you think, salsachinita. Why waste time? :wink: :lol:

[twnkltoz]

I also follow the three strikes rule. I rarely get asked to dance...I like to think that it's because I'm a teacher and they're intimidated! So, I usually have to ask for my dances...if someone turns me down, I won't ask them again that night unless they give a good reason and ask for a rain check. If they reject me twice with no reason, I won't ask them again...but I will accept graciously if they ask me. I just don't need that much rejection!!

[danceguy]

I like the way you think Sabor. :D

I am the same way, I much prefer someone to be honest and say no if they really don't want to dance with me. Sharing a dance with someone who is bored or on another planet is no fun at all...why put yourself into such a situation? An honest "no" is better than a lame excuse any day of the week. It is tough not to take it personally...especially if they get up and dance with someone else right away. :?

The only time I've ever said no to women is when I'm getting ready to leave...other than that I always say yes. If I'm too tired (very rare) then if I say no to one lady I will sit the entire song out, in respect.

Hmm, I don't have a three strike rule...its just one strike for me. It all depends on how the person replies, but if they say no then I won't ask them again that night. I may ask them another time...but if they are really rude, they go on the greylist...;)

Good point SC...I typically try and have three women lined up, so if one says no, I'll run over to the next one! I don't like to sit down once I'm on a roll. :P

Squirrel - Call me old fashioned, but I'm not into dancing with other guys. Besides, I don't think any of the ones I know would be good followers. :twisted:

SG

[tj]

Hmm... I don't have a written-in-stone 3 strike rule, but if I remember getting rejected more than a few times by a woman or even rejected rudely once, then I'm not going to ask her any more.

I don't have a problem an outright stone-cold "I don't like dancing with you". I do have a problem with the ones who are inconsistent - the ones who want to dance with you only when there's nothing better around. Also, it's way too much effort trying to figure out when an inconsistent women is in a good mood or not. Much easier to dance with women who appreciate you (and likewise, you appreciate them.)

It makes my life easier to separate women into three categories: those who don't appreciate dancing with me, those who do appreciate dancing with me, and the great unknown (of whom I am trying to figure out which of the two categories to put her in).

[Sagitta]

Hmm... I don't have a written-in-stone 3 strike rule, but if I remember getting rejected more than a few times by a woman or even rejected rudely once, then I'm not going to ask her any more.

I don't have a problem an outright stone-cold "I don't like dancing with you". I do have a problem with the ones who are inconsistent - the ones who want to dance with you only when there's nothing better around. Also, it's way too much effort trying to figure out when an inconsistent women is in a good mood or not. Much easier to dance with women who appreciate you (and likewise, you appreciate them.)



I too don't have the 3 strikes you are out rule...and as for people being rude I have an issue with that. While I apprectaite honesty above all else people should practice common courtesies say no, correctly, properly. Have you considered people with whom you will only dance certain dances tj? I know one person, the hopping gal, whom I can dance cumbia/forro with and I'm happy to dance quite a few of these with her. Now if she asks me for a salsa I just do one and make my escape. I know she wants to dance, and I'm sure she has figured this out as she will ask me if forro or cumbia comes on. Then there are those I just save merengue for because they love it, or a bachata. I may not even enjoy dancing salsa, or cha cha, with the same people, as different dances bring out different qualities in people.

[pygmalion]

It's really interesting to hear everybody's take on the refusal of dances issue. I remember quite a few threads last summer and fall where the consensus seemed to be that one should never turn down a dance. What happened? Just a different mix of people? :?: :roll:

[Sagitta]

I don't think that I was there. :oops: :( If it was last summer. I remember threads like this after I joined October 24!! I agree with the priniciple of never refusing a dance but along with that is the understanding that you'll give it your "all". Perhaps you won't be spinning 100 times if you dance with a beginner, but you are together for a few minutes and for that time you give each other the best that you have that matches the other person to the best of your ability. If that isn't your intention when you agree to dance then you are not being fair to me.

[ShyDancer]

Sometimes you just have to be rude and anti-social to save your own sanity......

I have only ever turned down ONE dance that I knew how to do, and that was a Jive with the most annoying man on earth...he is one of those types that talk non-stop thru the entire dance about crap, but you smile and nod and listen politely, praying for the song to end... then he will follow you around the rest of the night, and no one asks you to dance because he is permanently at your side :evil: I experienced it once with him and never again! If I see him looking for a partner I either quickly find myself one or get up and leave the floor area.
I know its a terribly rude thing to do, but he is just one of those people you an only tolerate in small, small doses...ie- a passing "hey there/ hi "

I , for the most part turn down the dances that I dont know (slowly that list is getting smaller!) but it has no effect on getting asked to dance again by the same partner. Most of the leads know the couple of dances that I dont know, One said to me once "Id ask you to dance but you dont know this one" :lol: sometimes they offer to teach me, sometimes they walk past and smile and tell me "Im coming for you the next one", one even comes to sit with me sometimes if Im alone.

I dont have a paticular "type" that I prefer to dance with, anyone who smiles, enjoys the dance and can lead a basic pattern is fine by me!



*Edit: My spelling is atrocious!

[Sagitta]

Sometimes you just have to be rude and anti-social to save your own sanity......

For a guy like the one you describe I would have to agree...

I dont have a paticular "type" that I prefer to dance with, anyone who smiles, enjoys the dance and can lead a basic pattern is fine by me!

How about a dancer who can dance to the music, catching the breaks and the changes in music, but does not know the basic? So he will lead you through moves, but you will truly have to just follow. That's what I did at the swing dance tonight. :)

[cocodrilo]

I can't remember ever turning down a dance. :wink:

[Sabor]

for ladies..

no jewerly please.. it hurts when it peels the skin off

fix hair to reasonable length by any means to avoid slapping partners and innocent passersby/bystanders to oblivion

smell nice, look good and feel even better

dont sleaze on me unless u know i'll welcome it

no spasms when styling or shining pls... i worry for your health

dont anticipate or expect next moves cause the lead should not be programmed .. instead focuss on connection and feel and u'll be just fine

dont back lead.. it ruins the whole flow

salsa is sexy.. so how'bout some salsa huh :wink:

[cocodrilo]

Great tips, Sabor! I always wear jewlery, though, but not the kind that will lash, scrape or puncture the skin of my partner! I agree with what the men in Mexico say about their ladies; "A woman without jewelry is like a night sky without stars".

[SDsalsaguy]

Hmm, depends on the jewlery... I have to say that the next time my hand gets cut up from some ring or another I will not be keeping that woman on my dance card.... :(

[DancePoet]

Regarding getting turned down ... when this has happened, usually there has been a good reason, and that's ok when there is.

Although one woman turned me down, can't remember the reason, and then danced with someone else. This was the second time I got turned down by her in two weeks, and she seemed to be doing this to several guys. Word got around this was going on and her number of dance partners got much shorter. She found herself not dancing as often as before. It took me many, many weeks before I decided to ask her a third time. Now she doesn't turn me down, and pays particularly close attention to thanking me after we have completed our dancing.

If asked, and I tend to be the one asking, I will turn someone down if I need a rest, and will always give them a "rain check" for later.

[mhgroove]

SG, why don't you guys invite each other then? Find a guy who can dance as a woman and dance with him... :) I'm not joking... I do that here... I invite ladies, and I'm a lady... but a lady who knows how to lead... so, if there are very few guys, I dance with girls... :)

The tips are great... the 'socially-retarded behaviour' is very common in my club too... but there are some girls who have evolved :) (I'm one of them...). Nice topic anyway

I'm sorry Squirrel..men will never ever invite other guys to dance with. I know you wrote you're not joking..but I hope you are.

Boy..we need the RetroSexual Movement for men bad!!! Scary!

[tj]

I too don't have the 3 strikes you are out rule...and as for people being rude I have an issue with that. While I apprectaite honesty above all else people should practice common courtesies say no, correctly, properly. Have you considered people with whom you will only dance certain dances tj? I know one person, the hopping gal, whom I can dance cumbia/forro with and I'm happy to dance quite a few of these with her. Now if she asks me for a salsa I just do one and make my escape. I know she wants to dance, and I'm sure she has figured this out as she will ask me if forro or cumbia comes on. Then there are those I just save merengue for because they love it, or a bachata. I may not even enjoy dancing salsa, or cha cha, with the same people, as different dances bring out different qualities in people.

Hmm - I don't do this - but certain songs are really good with certain ladies. I will try to seek them out when a particularly inspiring song is on.

I have this tendency to start having a conversation with my partner when I don't particularly like a song. (Then again, even during songs that I do like, I'll probably talk at least a little!)

Re:rejection/turning down a guy
I'd say it depends on the local scene. I get turned down every now and then here in Seattle, and it's not a big deal. I will say that it happens quite a bit more here than in other scenes - for example, in Vancouver a few months ago, a woman turned me down, and I didn't care - I just moved on and asked other women to dance. After all, she didn't know me at the time, and a complete stranger could be a bad dancer for all she knew. Here it is, months later and she (who was in town visiting last night) was talking about how bad she felt because of it. It was nice of her, but rather unnecessary, IMHO.

[Sakura]

for ladies..

no jewerly please.. it hurts when it peels the skin off

fix hair to reasonable length by any means to avoid slapping partners and innocent passersby/bystanders to oblivion

smell nice, look good and feel even better

dont sleaze on me unless u know i'll welcome it

no spasms when styling or shining pls... i worry for your health

dont anticipate or expect next moves cause the lead should not be programmed .. instead focuss on connection and feel and u'll be just fine

dont back lead.. it ruins the whole flow

salsa is sexy.. so how'bout some salsa huh :wink:

Ah, hah! Reply time!

1. =O_O= Attack of the Killer Jewelry! I wear bracelets and my beloved Dragon necklaces -- my necklaces are all chained very close to my neck, and when possible, tucked under my shirt, just in case they might catch on something. (In particular: my Penndragon necklace -- two dragons wrapped around a sword, which *actually* happens to have a fairly sharp point for being dull! 8) )
I try to keep in mind that my the person I'm dancing with *probably* didn't ask me to dance so that he could perform stunts worthy of James Bond, Indiana Jones, etc., just to escape injury from my jewelry.

2. :lol: :lol: :lol: Since I have hair down to the middle of my back, I can totally understand this one! What I find funny about doing this is that I put all of my hair up into a little bun, but as soon as I'm finished, I let it down, so my hair comes cascading back down! It's sorta like, " :shock: :shock: I have hair again!!!!"

4. :twisted: Sabor, you bad boy! :wink: :lol:

5. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

8. YAY, SALSA!!!!!! Sabor, *grins* wanna dance? :wink: (Note that I will fully take you up on your answer whenever I get into Cairo!!!!!) Of course, if you say no, I'll dissolve in a fit of tears, and then you shall be forever labeled as the "Bad Guy" for making cute, lil' ol' me cry! *cough cough* :wink: :lol: :lol:

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

(PS- It's when good posts like this get started that I kick myself for coming into them late -- but I suppose that's better than not at all!)

[Sagitta]

SG, why don't you guys invite each other then? Find a guy who can dance as a woman and dance with him... :) I'm not joking... I do that here... I invite ladies, and I'm a lady... but a lady who knows how to lead... so, if there are very few guys, I dance with girls... :)

The tips are great... the 'socially-retarded behaviour' is very common in my club too... but there are some girls who have evolved :) (I'm one of them...). Nice topic anyway

I'm sorry Squirrel..men will never ever invite other guys to dance with. I know you wrote you're not joking..but I hope you are.

Boy..we need the RetroSexual Movement for men bad!!! Scary!

I do, time and time again. And if you read my posts you will see that I'm almost constantly harping on it. All those whom I know who do AT talk about the usefullness of learning both roles to really learn to dance better...

Also, here is a quote from w w w .dance-addiction.com. This philosophy is shared by many dance teachers...

A Note on Gender Roles: Traditionally, ballroom and Latin dances are danced in male/female couples with roles assigned based on gender. Men lead and women follow. These roles require the acquisition of different skills, and the recent gains in liberating women and men from such rigid gender roles in American society at large has done little to loosen the shackles on the dance floor. While I would prefer that every dancer were required to learn both roles, such a fantasy is not at present practical. If you are male, you will be expected to lead on most occasions and ditto if you are female with regards to following. So I have to recommend that you spend more time learning the role that is assigned to your gender. But if you think you would enjoy learning the role not traditionally assigned to your gender, all the power to you. Just be aware that someone has to lead and someone has to follow (even if you take turns)-otherwise it's a different activity (perhaps wrestling?).

[Sakura]

Interesting philosophy. I think it would definitely be fun, and potentially helpful, if I learned the "lead" role someday, but I'll save that for when I have the extra time and money. :)

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[Sabor]

YAY, SALSA!!!!!! Sabor, *grins* wanna dance? (Note that I will fully take you up on your answer whenever I get into Cairo!!!!!) Of course, if you say no, I'll dissolve in a fit of tears, and then you shall be forever labeled as the "Bad Guy" for making cute, lil' ol' me cry! *cough cough*

now how on earth,sea & sky could i ever refuse a dance with u sweetheart?.. i dont think that its even remotely conceivable that u can be refused by anyone anywhere 8) .. and if that happens by some miracle, i can safely assure u that whoever he is will immediately hold the title of 'Most stupid person of all time' in the Guiness Book of Recrds :wink:

[MacMoto]

no jewerly please.. it hurts when it peels the skin off

fix hair to reasonable length by any means to avoid slapping partners and innocent passersby/bystanders to oblivion
How about guys wearing a wrist watch? My hair is long and very thick, and I've had a few incidents involving the leader's wrist watch getting tangled up in my hair (ouch!).
As my spins get better, I'm also noticing the lashing effect more. :lol: Yet when I say I'm thinking about getting my hair cut short, guys object vehemently. Go figure. :?

[cocodrilo]

no jewerly please.. it hurts when it peels the skin off

fix hair to reasonable length by any means to avoid slapping partners and innocent passersby/bystanders to oblivion
How about guys wearing a wrist watch? My hair is long and very thick, and I've had a few incidents involving the leader's wrist watch getting tangled up in my hair (ouch!).
As my spins get better, I'm also noticing the lashing effect more. :lol: Yet when I say I'm thinking about getting my hair cut short, guys object vehemently. Go figure. :?
When I went dancing at several discos in Mexico, ALL the woman had lovely, long hair and it didn't seem to be bothering the guys one bit!

[Sabor]

by all means keep your hair long and beautiful.. but.. if u dance LA style .. or you just spin alot .. no need to cut it .. just manage it better, tie it someway or another..

as far as bracelets, wrist watch, big rings or any bulky stuff on your forearm and fingers.. even big dangly earings and necklaces.. loose it for the dance duration and thats for both sexes.. better safe than sorry.. besides bulky jewelry far as i'm concerned is a turn-off in any situation.. femininity is a beautiful thing.. and to me that is synonomous with fine supple delicateness.. dance like a breath of fresh air ladies.. we are the poets and u are my poem.. feel like one.. look like one.. it never fails :wink:

[KevinL]

SG, why don't you guys invite each other then? Find a guy who can dance as a woman and dance with him... :) I'm not joking... I do that here...

I'm sorry Squirrel..men will never ever invite other guys to dance with. I know you wrote you're not joking..but I hope you are.

I regularly ask guys to dance but only if there are extra guys, or if I haven't had a chance to follow all night long. Doing the follower side is fun, in part because I find it so challenging to give up control. It's easier to find a leader among the swing crowd, but not impossible among the ballroom community. I haven't tried with the salsa crowd.

Of course it's easier for me to get guys to dance with me since I'm a teacher.

Kevin

[Vince A]

SG, why don't you guys invite each other then? Find a guy who can dance as a woman and dance with him... :) I'm not joking... I do that here...

I'm sorry Squirrel..men will never ever invite other guys to dance with. I know you wrote you're not joking..but I hope you are.

I regularly ask guys to dance but only if there are extra guys, or if I haven't had a chance to follow all night long. Doing the follower side is fun, in part because I find it so challenging to give up control. It's easier to find a leader among the swing crowd, but not impossible among the ballroom community. I haven't tried with the salsa crowd.

Of course it's easier for me to get guys to dance with me since I'm a teacher. Kevin
Ditto . . . not regularly, but often enough. It was very difficult the very first time a guy asked me to dance . . . I didn't know which part to do, so, I started leading, and he followed . . . then we swithched about half-way through the song . . . he was a much better follower than I.

This past weekend at an event, I did a two-step as the a follower . . . I had never danced as a follower to that dance, but it worked out fine!

I would challenge any leader to learn a few basics to the dances that they like and do . . . it will give you some insight as to what the "other person" is getting . . .

[pygmalion]

Yes. It's a huge eye opener, even with just the basic basics.

[Sakura]

now how on earth,sea & sky could i ever refuse a dance with u sweetheart?.. i dont think that its even remotely conceivable that u can be refused by anyone anywhere 8) .. and if that happens by some miracle, i can safely assure u that whoever he is will immediately hold the title of 'Most stupid person of all time' in the Guiness Book of Recrds :wink:

Aww, you're so nice to me! *hugs you and purrs contentedly* It's so good to be loved! =^__^=

'Course... *strokes her chin* ...It might be pretty fun to make it into the Guiness Book of World Records... :wink: *weighs the options* ...Naaaa, I'd rather dance!!! :D

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[Sakura]

How about guys wearing a wrist watch? My hair is long and very thick, and I've had a few incidents involving the leader's wrist watch getting tangled up in my hair (ouch!).
As my spins get better, I'm also noticing the lashing effect more.

=O_O= Owie! I know the feeling of getting my hair attatched to people, people's clothing, etc... It hurts! I need to lecture my hair on it's bad habits of eating people and things again, apparently! =^_~= *laughs* Lashing effects are fun -- :? maybe not when you're the lead though!

*****
femininity is a beautiful thing.. and to me that is synonomous with fine supple delicateness.. dance like a breath of fresh air ladies.. we are the poets and u are my poem.. feel like one.. look like one.. it never fails :wink:

Sabor, you're such a winner with words! :D :D If someone ever refuses a dance with you, I've got no idea why!!! :D *grins and sighs happily* You're so awesome; I'm glad you're my buddy!
More people should share your philosophies on dance: I'm sure we'd *all* start looking *much* better on the dance floor if we did! 8) And we all know looking good is feeling good, is dancing good. And in the end, that's what we're all after anyway, right?

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[Sabor]

Exactement mon petite choco chocola' :D

[virginiadancegirl]

Of course, this is coming from a guy where the men far outnumber the ladies at all the dance venues... :?

SG

Pardon the delay, but I just saw this....


WHERE are you? I wanna be there....lots of leads....get me a plane ticket! :lol:

[Sakura]

Exactement mon petite choco chocola' :D

Ahhhhh! You've stopped my French knowledge right in its tracks with the "choco chocola!" Makes me think of chocolate or cocoa! Do I now have another Dance Name? (<--Fun post if one wants to take a look at it. It's called, "Dance Names" though. Need the "s" on there!)

Either way, it's good to know you're agreeing with me! :D :banana:

Sakura Kitty :kitty: