How to reject and what to do when rejected?

[wadpro]

How should ladies reject men? I think a woman should always accept dance offers and if she is not happy with her partner she should dance with him during at least 1 song. If a woman doesnt want to dance with a meb in any condition, she should be polite and honest. For example, "i am tired, i have just sat, sorry but i dont like this song very much maybe next song, i have a problem with my foot (leg)", etc...

When I was a really beginner (2 months student) a woman had rejected me very rudely. When I offered her to dance, she had told me "1 year later". I am not a beginner right now but I will never dance wtih her because she is in my blacklist :)

How about men?What should man do after rejection? After rejection, a man can continue to walk and he can behave as if he goes to restroom :) He can also make another dance offer to another lady sitting next to first woman :) Another option is to insist by saying "come on just for song" :p

[Madahlia]

I think a woman should always accept dance offers and if she is not happy with her partner she should dance with him during at least 1 song.


Should a man always accept dance offers?

[Captain Jep]

Havent we had this discussion errr before? :rolleyes:

[Peaches]

I think a woman should always accept dance offers and if she is not happy with her partner she should dance with him during at least 1 song. No. What you suggest is generally considered more rude. Walking off the floor early is generally reserved for more serious things.

If a woman doesnt want to dance with a meb in any condition, she should be polite and honest. For example, "i am tired, i have just sat, sorry but i dont like this song very much maybe next song, i have a problem with my foot (leg)", etc... Not sure what you meant by "meb." Generally, yes. But if a woman does not want to dance with a particular man, it's pretty rude to offer an explanation ("I am tired and sitting this one out.") and then get up to dance with someone else. This is where a simple "No, thank you" comes in handy. We can have our reasons for not accepting. It doesn't have to be done rudely, but rejection is a valid option.

Havent we had this discussion errr before? :rolleyes:Oy. Yes, we have. Started by the same OP. Let's hope it doesn't go in the same direction as the last time.

[spectator]

no way on earth are you in the real world. We are not at primary school here. I do not have to let any man put his hands on me, I can refuse however I want. If I think a "no thank you is kinder than saying, "sod off you have BO/ bad breath/can't dance/are a lecherous old creep/I've already filled my 'pity' [not my personal feeling but other threads have mentioned this whether we like it or not] dance quota" I will. Everyone has the right to refuse, man or woman.

Get over it and stop this pathetic charade of a 'discussion' now.

[spectator]

In addition, not to be insulting, but I really don't think that even after 2 or 5 years anyone with self awareness thinks they are "no longer a beginner" it's a long, hard mountainous ascent.

[Captain Jep]

We are not at primary school here. I do not have to let any man put his hands on me

Except Jesus that is :rolleyes: Or that guy who (used to) look like him :cool:

[Captain Jep]

Should a man always accept dance offers?

Errmm yes .. unless he wants red wine spilled down his shirt that is .... hehehe :p

[spectator]

Except Jesus that is :rolleyes: Or that guy who (used to) look like him :cool:

Damn. He told me he wasn't filming.

[Dave Bailey]

Blimey wadpro, you do put your foot in it, don't you? :D

How should ladies reject men? I think a woman should always accept dance offers and if she is not happy with her partner she should dance with him during at least 1 song.
I disagree.

No-one should have to dance with anyone, even for one song. My personal creed is "No smellies / pervs / yankers" - that is, I think it's fine not to accept a dance with someone who smells bad, who's giving unwanted lech, or who may harm you.

In fact, I think more women should refuse on that basis.

Now, where there's some disagreement is on the "other terms". I think it's fair to say that a true BsAs-style purist (e.g. Jantango) would say that it's completely acceptable to refuse a dance invitation from a beginner, or from someone you don't know, or if the invitation was not issued in the correct way, or for any other reason the woman wants.

Personally, I'm closer to the "Hell, you're there to dance, so dance" end of the spectrum.

But there's plenty of room for other views in between those two points.

When I was a really beginner (2 months student) a woman had rejected me very rudely. When I offered her to dance, she had told me "1 year later". I am not a beginner right now but I will never dance wtih her because she is in my blacklist :)
Firstly, aren't you the same person who sparked off a massive thread because you refused a dancer yourself? Frankly, I can't see you holding the moral high ground on this area. Basically, you seem to hold grudges more than is sensible.

How about men?What should man do after rejection? After rejection, a man can continue to walk and he can behave as if he goes to restroom :) He can also make another dance offer to another lady sitting next to first woman :)
Well, this is what the cabaceo is for, to minimise public humiliation.

I'd say that you need to hone your technique of asking.

Another option is to insist by saying "come on just for song" :p
Christ, no. Don't even think about it. "No" means "no". It's a milonga not a flippin' nightclub.

[Dave Bailey]

"sod off you have BO/ bad breath/can't dance/are a lecherous old creep/I've already filled my 'pity' dance quota"
Ah, that was you was it? :p

[Peaches]

Damn. He told me he wasn't filming.
He told me that he liked it!

[Mario7]

I will not ask every woman to dance, only those that I want to dance with because they dance well. That being said, if a woman were to ask me to dance, I would always accept. The reason is that I feel that it took a lot of guts to ask and I'm not going to give her a loss but rather a win for doing so. These are just my own ethics. If I'm paying to get into the dance, I dance with whom I please..but if a woman asks me, I dance with her, too.

[dchester]

How should ladies reject men? I think a woman should always accept dance offers and if she is not happy with her partner she should dance with him during at least 1 song. If a woman doesnt want to dance with a meb in any condition, she should be polite and honest. For example, "i am tired, i have just sat, sorry but i dont like this song very much maybe next song, i have a problem with my foot (leg)", etc...

When I was a really beginner (2 months student) a woman had rejected me very rudely. When I offered her to dance, she had told me "1 year later". I am not a beginner right now but I will never dance wtih her because she is in my blacklist :)

How about men?What should man do after rejection? After rejection, a man can continue to walk and he can behave as if he goes to restroom :) He can also make another dance offer to another lady sitting next to first woman :) Another option is to insist by saying "come on just for song" :p
A women doesn't have to dance with you if she doesn't want to, and if you don't like her rejection, you don't have to ever ask her to dance again. It's as simple as that. Some people are nice, and some people are rude. My advice, deal with it. This is part of being a guy, so get over it.

As for what to do after a rejection, you can either get over it and try to have a nice dance with someone else, or you can let it ruin your night. (BTW, the insisting thing you mentioned is the absolute worst choice of the ones you mentioned, IMO). In the end, it's up to you which choice you make.

Women will dance with you for a variety of reasons: either they like how you dance, they like you personally, they are nice enough to perform some "charity" dances, or they are so desperate that they will dance with anyone. If you are getting rejected a lot, then none of these things would seem to be going for you very much.

Obviously, I haven't seen what actually happened, but based upon what you have posted, my opinion is that you need to focus more on what you can do better.

[ant]

Wadpro, why are you so hung up on this rejection thing?

How should ladies reject men?
Politely.
but if they don't that is their problem, don't make it yours.
If some of the attitude that is coming across generelly in these rejection threads of yours, is also coming across at Milongas and classes you attend, I suspect that you are getting a hard time. If so it is the attitude causing it.

I think a woman should always accept dance offers and if she is not happy with her partner she should dance with him during at least 1 song.
It is a bigger insult to walk away after one dance compared to saying no to start with.


If a woman doesnt want to dance with a meb in any condition, she should be polite and honest. For example, "i am tired, i have just sat, sorry but i dont like this song very much maybe next song, i have a problem with my foot (leg)", etc...

I think "meb in any condition" = "me under any circumstances".

Her only responsability is to refuse you politely, no reason has to be given. If part of that politeness is giving a lame excuse in your opinion I don't see the problem.
Except that maybe she dances with someone else straight after rejecting you. That is hurtful. If this is happening regularly then I go back to what I said before about your own atitude. I have found this to be a very rare occurance generally.



When I was a really beginner (2 months student) a woman had rejected me very rudely. When I offered her to dance, she had told me "1 year later". I am not a beginner right now but I will never dance wtih her because she is in my blacklist :)


If a person has been rude to you in the past, it is a reasonable course of action to not ask her to dance in the future. But don't go round bad mouthing her to anybody that will listen. This will be taken a sign that the woman was right and it will help to give you a bad reputation.

How about men?What should man do after rejection? After rejection, a man can continue to walk and he can behave as if he goes to restroom :)
Good ideas


He can also make another dance offer to another lady sitting next to first woman :)

Why do that? If the second woman has seen the rejection, which is likely, that increases your chances of getting rejected by her as well. It seems to me the only reason to specifically ask that woman is to show needle to the woman that rejected you. All that is going to do is to enhance a bad reptation.

Hence a loose/loose result for you. Reducing your chances of an acceptance and giving people ammunition when they want to talk badly about you..


Another option is to insist by saying "come on just for song" :p

Wadpro not a good idea. If you have been doing this all it would have done is give you a bad reputation. Worse still the more successful this tactic is for you, the worse the reputation. Because the only ladies that will say yes are the ones that want to avoid trouble and that will only enhance a bad reputation for yourself due to the additional resentment this causes.

[wadpro]

So, in short can we say that:

If someone rejects you, dont insist, dont ask another woman next to her for a dance. Just turn back to your sit and look for another woman to dance. Another option is, after hearing the answer "no", to go to the restroom, or to go to the bar to drink something.

If a rejection really bothers us, our only option is not to ask her for dance again, right?

[Mladenac]

I asked some girl several times not the same evening cause they are good dancers and I need to dance/practice with somebody.
After they didn't want to dance I don't ask them anymore.
On some occasions where there are no men I don't ask them as well.

Some girls are not in the mood for the moment, so they come later, or accept in other occasion.
Sometimes I come just to sit and watch, or I need a break, so I can understand them.

Yesterday it was ladies night, so some girl that are not so good dancers asked me to dance.

I believe in dancing personality comes first later technique.

[opendoor]

... in short can we say that...

Don´t think so. There are no rules in particular. Just be - and stay - authentic. I know a lot of dancers that became a vain arshole after 5 years.

[milongadicto]

I guess it's different for us guys, as it's usually us doing the asking, hence making us more 'prone' to getting rejected. In my experience, the best way to deal with rejection is not to take it personal and just move on. It seems from previous posts and threads that you're having some tough time dealing with this particular aspect, wadpro... You should just accept it as part of the milonga. Tango music is dramatic and has mostly sad themes, but that doesn't mean milongas have to be a drama. Just enjoy it man

[Dave Bailey]

So, in short can we say that:

If someone rejects you, dont insist,
Yes. Definitely don't ever insist.

dont ask another woman next to her for a dance.
Probably not, but it's up to your judgement.

Just turn back to your sit and look for another woman to dance. Another option is, after hearing the answer "no", to go to the restroom, or to go to the bar to drink something.
Basically, yeah. I don't want to go down the "rules" route too far, but as guidance, that works.

If a rejection really bothers us, our only option is not to ask her for dance again, right?
Yes.

[c955]

I see it from a slightly different POV. If I ask a woman to dance, I really would prefer her to say 'no' if she doesn't want to accept the invite, rather than say 'yes' because she felt in some way obliged.

I can often sense my follower's feeling by the 'sincerity' of her embrace. It simply isn't enjoyable for either party, so I wish she'd have said 'no thank you'.

Why would you want to dance with someone who doesn't want to dance with you?

All IMHO of course ;)

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

I see it from a slightly different POV. If I ask a woman to dance, I really would prefer her to say 'no' if she doesn't want to accept the invite, rather than say 'yes' because she felt in some way obliged.

I can often sense my follower's feeling by the 'sincerity' of her embrace. It simply isn't enjoyable for either party, so I wish she'd have said 'no thank you'.

Why would you want to dance with someone who doesn't want to dance with you?

All IMHO of course ;)

Exactly. When somebody tries to pressure, bully, guilt-trip me into dancing with them, no matter what their dancing skills are, I see that as a red flag.

It is a little like a relationship. When a suitor, a prospective mate during a courtship period, when everybody is on their best behavior, is manipulative, inconsiderate of your feelings, you can be almost 100% sure: if you get involved with that person further, it is going to get much worse. To the point that they might treat you real bad if you let them.
So, here is, standing in front of me, somebody who does not care about me and my feelings right now. It makes me wonder, what could it become if I actually let him hold me very close and lead me??
Thanks, I rather not find that one out.

[Steve Pastor]

When a suitor, a prospective mate during a courtship period, when everybody is on their best behavior, is manipulative, inconsiderate of your feelings, you can be almost 100% sure: if you get involved with that person further, it is going to get much worse.

Yes, and it can take a long time to figure this out and make it part of our behavior.

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Yes, and it can take a long time to figure this out and make it part of our behavior.

I believe taking up tango might be a great learning opportunity, also for social skills that can significantly improve one's personal life.

[ant]

If someone rejects you, dont insist, dont ask another woman next to her for a dance. Just turn back to your sit and look for another woman to dance. Another option is, after hearing the answer "no", to go to the restroom, or to go to the bar to drink something.

Yes. But don't hang on to the words. Think of the intent behind them as well.


If a rejection really bothers us, our only option is not to ask her for dance again, right ?


In one sense yes.

But we can also look at ourselves and work on a longer term stategy to improve things. If you fancy doing that Wadpro I can give you some ideas but to begin with it will be very personal.

[Mario7]

I've been rejected a lot in the past year or so. I usually will ask a woman again at a later date if she refuses me once. If twice, I will never ask her again. And yes, I would see a woman not finishing a tanda as an even bigger rejection if it seems that she knows what she is doing. Also, a woman who uses her left hand to hold me apart in open hold, will never get another invitation from me to dance. And I would not finish the tanda with her. But usually I will ask an 'unknown' only when there is one song left in the tanda.
There is a woman that I asked 2 or 3 times (over a couple of weeks) and she refused me each time. I had kept asking her because she was pretty much a beginner and I figured that she didn't know what she was doing by refusing me...anyway, I gave up on her and just danced with my regular partners. A couple of months later, she was big enough to (in effect) apologise when she better understood my dancing ability. Actually, I never did ask her to dance again (nor she me) but I conversed with her in a friendly way a lot. I didn't ask for a dance with her because at that point, I didn't think that we would do a good job of it. But I'm glad that she broke the ice and came over to me to talk, etc. I respect that a lot.
(had she asked me to dance directly, of course I would have)

[Madahlia]

I've been rejected a lot in the past year or so. So, not just me then! :)

Also, a woman who uses her left hand to hold me apart in open hold, will never get another invitation from me to dance. And I would not finish the tanda with her. Is this because you don't like to be dictated to, because you really dislike dancing in open embrace or because it makes you feel that the lady rejecting you?

But usually I will ask an 'unknown' only when there is one song left in the tanda.I'd be happy with that, at least it would give me a chance to show what I can do, if not to let my nerves calm down.

There is a woman that I asked 2 or 3 times (over a couple of weeks) and she refused me each time. I had kept asking her because she was pretty much a beginner and I figured that she didn't know what she was doing by refusing me...You're just too modest, Mario7!


.....anyway, I gave up on her and just danced with my regular partners. A couple of months later, she was big enough to (in effect) apologise when she better understood my dancing ability. Actually, I never did ask her to dance again (nor she me) but I conversed with her in a friendly way a lot. I didn't ask for a dance with her because at that point, I didn't think that we would do a good job of it. But I'm glad that she broke the ice and came over to me to talk, etc. I respect that a lot.
(had she asked me to dance directly, of course I would have)
This all makes me contemplate on the nature of tango games and the fact that I should refuse to play them, either with myself or anyone else. It is counter-productive and harms my enjoyment of the dance. Any advice on how to rise above it all would be gratefully received!

[Madahlia]

Exactly. When somebody tries to pressure, bully, guilt-trip me into dancing with them, no matter what their dancing skills are, I see that as a red flag.


Yes, indeed, and I agree with the rest of your post. But surely, that kind of behaviour in dancing is unheard of? It hadn't occurred to me that anyone would or could behave like that - until Wadpro raised the subject.

Maybe I'm naive, but is it that common?

[Dave Bailey]

I usually will ask a woman again at a later date if she refuses me once. If twice, I will never ask her again.
Seems reasonable.

Personally, I have a "1 strike" rule* - if she refuses once (and I don't know her), then I figure that there's no point in asking her again. If she wants to dance with me later, then she can ask me.

And yes, I would see a woman not finishing a tanda as an even bigger rejection if it seems that she knows what she is doing.
That seems to be the consensus - interesting to know. I've learnt something. :)

Also, a woman who uses her left hand to hold me apart in open hold, will never get another invitation from me to dance.
Seems a bit harsh - some people simply want to dance in open. Still, that's your choice.

There is a woman that I asked 2 or 3 times (over a couple of weeks) and she refused me each time. I had kept asking her because she was pretty
Indeed :)

(Sorry, that was mean, but I couldn't resist...!)

* Well, it's more of a guideline than a rule...

[ant]

Originally Posted by Mario7 http://1.2.3.9/bmi/www.dance-forums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?p=747353#post747353)
Also, a woman who uses her left hand to hold me apart in open hold, will never get another invitation from me to dance.

Seems a bit harsh - some people simply want to dance in open. Still, that's your choice.


DB I think you can feel the difference between the left arm being used as a barrier compared to showing a preference for open embrace.

Mario I find that when this happens I think "why the hell did you say yes then". However, I usually stick with it. Try very hard when dancing to show the lady I respect her choice for open embrace and I usually find after a while and assuming the music allows we do go into close embrace or I get some sort of explanation as to why she prefers open embrace.

[Peaches]

For a bit of perspective on the bracing the arm to maintain open position...

I've done this from time to time, with a couple of leaders. Whenever I've done it, it's because the guy is forcibly pulling me into him with his right arm--either deliberately or not, I don't know and don't care. It's my way of trying to maintain distance, and maintain my balance. Sometimes it's because close embrace is uncomfortable for one reason or another so want to dance open, but the guy is insistent.

So...check to make sure there's not something about what you're doing that would make her brace her arm.

[Madahlia]

It's my way of trying to maintain distance, and maintain my balance. Sometimes it's because close embrace is uncomfortable for one reason or another so want to dance open, but the guy is insistent.


I have done this to maintain my balance occasionally and once to avoid being forced into close embrace with a guy I didn't want to be that close to.

[jennyisdancing]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario7 http://danceforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?p=747353#post747353)
There is a woman that I asked 2 or 3 times (over a couple of weeks) and she refused me each time. I had kept asking her because she was pretty

Indeed :smile:

(Sorry, that was mean, but I couldn't resist...!)

Given there is a surplus of followers at most milongas (at least in my area) I find it baffling to see a leader complain about being rejected. I mean, chances are if one lady says no, there will be several others who will say yes, even if you are a beginner.

Most ladies are just happy to get out of their chair and dance, which is what they came there for. If you are only asking very pretty or really advanced ladies, then obviously your chances of rejection go way up.

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Yes, indeed, and I agree with the rest of your post. But surely, that kind of behaviour in dancing is unheard of? It hadn't occurred to me that anyone would or could behave like that - until Wadpro raised the subject.

Maybe I'm naive, but is it that common?

Alas, it happens from time to time, and not only from men toward women. I have witnessed such behavior of some ladies trying to make my instructor dance with them in milongas, that I wanted to pinch myself on more than one occasion. Anywhere from manipulative to downright obnoxiously rude.

[bordertangoman]

Hmm a male friend felt that there was a status thing invloved; that if you as a man were seen dancing with a woman who might be a beginner other ladies would look down on you and decline your invitiations to dance, so to get your stake on the tango ladder you have to be seen[ to be dancing with the better/younger/prettier dancers.. so it goes:rolleyes:

[dchester]

Hmm a male friend felt that there was a status thing invloved; that if you as a man were seen dancing with a woman who might be a beginner other ladies would look down on you and decline your invitiations to dance, so to get your stake on the tango ladder you have to be seen[ to be dancing with the better/younger/prettier dancers.. so it goes:rolleyes:
I'm glad that nonsense doesn't seem to occur at the milongas I normally go to.

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Hmm a male friend felt that there was a status thing invloved; that if you as a man were seen dancing with a woman who might be a beginner other ladies would look down on you and decline your invitiations to dance
Not likely. For a lady, it means that a guy is a) a very good leader, because that what it usually takes leading beginners, and b) a very nice, caring guy. We all were beginners once, and we have warm memories of those guys who danced with us when we just started.

to get your stake on the tango ladder you have to be seen[ to be dancing with the better/younger/prettier dancers.. so it goes:rolleyes:

That is somewhat true. If the leader never ever dances with anybody good (not necessarily young and pretty), that will make me wonder.

[jennyisdancing]

Not likely. For a lady, it means that a guy is a) a very good leader, because that what it usually takes leading beginners, and b) a very nice, caring guy. We all were beginners once, and we have warm memories of those guys who danced with us when we just started.



That is somewhat true. If the leader never ever dances with anybody good (not necessarily young and pretty), that will make me wonder.

Maybe, maybe not. If the cliqueyness is really bad, sometimes even a good dancer will have a hard time getting dances with the better people. The point I was addressing, however, was the complaint about "pretty" dancers rejecting a leader. Young and/or pretty is not the same as skill. And I do see some excellent older ladies sitting a lot because some of the leaders are hung up on the young or pretty ones.

[bastet]

Young and/or pretty is not the same as skill. And I do see some excellent older ladies sitting a lot because some of the leaders are hung up on the young or pretty ones.

I see the same thing happen. It's sad. And as I am neither young nor pretty myself...I've tried very very hard to acquire skill.

[Dave Bailey]

DB I think you can feel the difference between the left arm being used as a barrier compared to showing a preference for open embrace.
Well, it's one technique some women use to "show a preference", typically reserved for men who can't take subtle hints.

Which, let's face it, is pretty much all of us... :oops:

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Yeah, it is not that simple at times. There are many factors involved in the choice of partners, some quite irrational.

As my tango journey progressed, I found out that "snobby people and members of the clique" does not always equal "better dancers". I have met a fair share of "tango stars" and "maestros" out there I would not care to dance with.

Although, the truth is, real good dancers tend to be picky about who they dance with, which also may be perceived by some as snobbishness.

[Dave Bailey]

Given there is a surplus of followers at most milongas (at least in my area) I find it baffling to see a leader complain about being rejected. I mean, chances are if one lady says no, there will be several others who will say yes, even if you are a beginner.
Rejection is painful. Always. It doesn't matter how many women are over - the fact is, that woman has rejected you.

One of the main reasons cabaceo was devised was to avoid men feeling humiliated that way.

Most ladies are just happy to get out of their chair and dance, which is what they came there for.
Depends on the venue, really. I imagine that statement is totally incorrect for the typical BsAs milonga, for example.

If you are only asking very pretty or really advanced ladies, then obviously your chances of rejection go way up.
Why?

[ant]

I see the same thing happen. It's sad. And as I am neither young nor pretty myself...I've tried very very hard to acquire skill.

Sometimes I think these ladies have got to look at the message their body language conveys.

At one Milonga I go to there is a 78 year old lady. She has had a hip replacement and insists on you dancing with her in a very careful manner. However she is a happy person and makes it good fun to dance with her. Other women at the same Milonga are a bit younger but don't give out the same body language.

I experience a similar example at another venue.

These two ladies are always dancing but others are not. Why?

[Dave Bailey]

Blimey, we're clearly going down the "pretty" route...
The point I was addressing, however, was the complaint about "pretty" dancers rejecting a leader.
What complaint - my off-the-cuff remark? :confused:

Young and/or pretty is not the same as skill. And I do see some excellent older ladies sitting a lot because some of the leaders are hung up on the young or pretty ones.
My criteria for choosing a partner, in this order, are:


Attitude
Skill
Looks

That's it.

[ant]

:confused:
My criteria for choosing a partner, in this order, are:


Attitude


DB, I ask myself is this a first. We actually agree.

[Dave Bailey]

DB, I ask myself is this a first. We actually agree.
All I can say is :p

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Sometimes I think these ladies have got to look at the message their body language conveys.

At one Milonga I go to there is a 78 year old lady. She has had a hip replacement and insists on you dancing with her in a certain way. However she is a happy person and makes it good fun to dance with her. Other women at the same Milonga are a bit younger but don't give out the same body language.

I experience a similar example at another venue.

These two ladies are always dancing but others are not. Why?

Yes, sometimes it is not that obvious.

For example, in our community there is one lady. She is older, but a good follower (I led her), and looks like a perfectly nice person all around. However, she is not popular. One might say, she is passed by because of her age, in favor of younger and skinnier girls. But lots of other ladies in her situation dance much more. Why?

I think the real reason is that the woman in question gets extremely clingy. If you dance one tanda with her, she will end up stalking you for the entire milonga, in order to get more. I have heard complains from friends. BTW, off the floor she does the same. Anybody who knows her a little better, had a chance to notice that if you ever do her a small favor, she will respond by trying to take advantage of you.

Nobody likes that, so people just try to keep their distance. And on the surface it may look like a nice and skillful lady not getting dances because she is older. Not!

[Peaches]

I see the same thing happen. It's sad. And as I am neither young nor pretty myself...I've tried very very hard to acquire skill.
Bingo.

[Ampster]

How should ladies reject men? I think a woman should always accept dance offers and if she is not happy with her partner she should dance with him during at least 1 song. If a woman doesnt want to dance with a meb in any condition, she should be polite and honest. For example, "i am tired, i have just sat, sorry but i dont like this song very much maybe next song, i have a problem with my foot (leg)", etc...


No. No woman is ever obligated to dance with anybody. If she doesn't want to dance with you, then she doesn't want to dance with you. Move on and get over it. It will happen many, many times. Don't get bitter.


When I was a really beginner (2 months student) a woman had rejected me very rudely. When I offered her to dance, she had told me "1 year later". I am not a beginner right now but I will never dance wtih her because she is in my blacklist :)

Big deal... Don't get bitter.


How about men?What should man do after rejection? After rejection, a man can continue to walk and he can behave as if he goes to restroom :) ...

This is acceptable


How about men?What should man do after rejection? ... He can also make another dance offer to another lady sitting next to first woman :)

I would advise against that, since it would seem you're choosing her as a second choice. Which by etiquette's (and common sense) standards seems to be rude.


How about men?What should man do after rejection? ... Another option is to insist by saying "come on just for song" :p

This makes you look desperate. Don't grovel.


wad,
forgive my candor but, if this is the way you conduct yourself at a milonga all the time, you'd probably start making a reputation for yourself. Tango communities are very close and people will notice. This perceived bitterness of yours is self-defeating in that women will not want to dance with you at all. It may even make you look creepy.

Do a little introspection. Try improving your dancing skills and your attitude. If you do, dance partners will not be a problem then.

If something as minor as a rejection for a dance bothers you so much, stop dancing tango, and take up something else.

[jennyisdancing]

Rejection is painful. Always. It doesn't matter how many women are over - the fact is, that woman has rejected you.

One of the main reasons cabaceo was devised was to avoid men feeling humiliated that way.

Point taken - though I would say cabeceo allows both parties to avoid humiliation.


Depends on the venue, really. I imagine that statement is totally incorrect for the typical BsAs milonga, for example.Sure, but I was referring to my experiences here in the U.S.., specifically in the Philly area.

Originally Posted by jennyisdancing http://danceforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?p=747457#post747457)
If you are only asking very pretty or really advanced ladies, then obviously your chances of rejection go way up.
Why?You really need to ask this? In any dance form that I know of, the women who dance the best and/or are the most attractive are in great demand. Therefore they can be picky.

[Dave Bailey]

You really need to ask this? In any dance form that I know of, the women who dance the best and/or are the most attractive are in great demand. Therefore they can be picky.
Mmm. They can be, but that doesn't mean they reject people more, does it?

You're basically saying that pretty / advanced dancers reject people more often. I'm not sure that's true.

[Captain Jep]

Mmm. They can be, but that doesn't mean they reject people more, does it?

You're basically saying that pretty / advanced dancers reject people more often. I'm not sure that's true.

Yes in my experience the best dancers dont get asked to dance that often. The people who would ask dont - they reject themselves beforehand :rolleyes:

[Steve Pastor]

"Beggars can't be chosers."
and
"the pick of the litter"
are two phrases that come to mind here.

In a community where people get to know each other, guys learn who not to ask. So, there are women who eventually don't have to tell guys "no", because the guys have learned to not go there.

But, yeah, "advanced dancers" can be, and usually are more selective about who they dance with.
And, yes, attractive women have more partners to chose from than ones who aren't as attractive (other things being equal).

[Madahlia]

Sometimes I think these ladies have got to look at the message their body language conveys.


The people who would ask dont - they reject themselves beforehand :rolleyes:

It's good to know that these rejectees only have themselves to blame! Next!

[bordertangoman]

I think we need to apply a bit of psychology here. I am reading Learned optimism by Martin Seligman, which I would recommend (According to a questionnaire in the book I'm a pessimist. well there's a surprise! :rolleyes:)
It is how we respond to " rejection" that makes the difference.
Feeling disappointment is normal; feeling it is a catastrophe is pessimistic; regarding it as a momentary blip is optimistic; and there are strategies for dealing with this (emotively)
or in my case just being a bl**dy good dancer. Well better than average most of the time.( for uk milongas)

if you want to assess your optimism go here:

http://www.stanford.edu/class/msande271/onlinetools/LearnedOpt.html

[Captain Jep]

"moderately pessimistic" - well at least Im not suicidal! :) lol

[Peaches]

Very pessimistic. Shocking.

Actually, I do find that a bit surprising, although I know I'm going through a rough time so that could have influenced it.

I didn't like the test, though. I could kind of see where they were going with a lot of the questions, but to me a lot of them weren't issues of taking things as a temporary blip versus long-term outlook. I think a lot of them had more to do with blaming external forces versus taking personal responsibility (or taking personal credit versus accepting chance and fate).

Or perhaps I'm just very pessimistic.

[Captain Jep]

Yes I was surprised too. I tried not to analyse it too much though :)

I'm also not sure whether it's better to think "I am great at tango" or to have a "realistic" view : "I'm just as good or better than most people here tonight".

I would have thought either view would work when asking for dances ;)

[bordertangoman]

Very pessimistic. Shocking.

Actually, I do find that a bit surprising, although I know I'm going through a rough time so that could have influenced it.

I didn't like the test, though. I could kind of see where they were going with a lot of the questions, but to me a lot of them weren't issues of taking things as a temporary blip versus long-term outlook. I think a lot of them had more to do with blaming external forces versus taking personal responsibility (or taking personal credit versus accepting chance and fate).

Or perhaps I'm just very pessimistic.

i WOULD AGREE WITH YOUR ANAlysis but I'm a pessimist too. I understand the concepts that they are putting forward; that if you think something good has happened as a result of your efforts as opposed to chance or outside influence, or if bad things happen to you its just bad luck and you do not blame youreself; but its exactly those responses which make one an optimist or pessimist; they studied dogs and created a "helpless" response in one group where they learned that nothing they did would make any difference and this behaviour was prevalent in a different situation where the dogs could escape a shock if jumped over a divide; they didnt even try to find a way to escape the shock.

[jennyisdancing]

Very pessimistic. Shocking.

Actually, I do find that a bit surprising, although I know I'm going through a rough time so that could have influenced it.

I didn't like the test, though. I could kind of see where they were going with a lot of the questions, but to me a lot of them weren't issues of taking things as a temporary blip versus long-term outlook. I think a lot of them had more to do with blaming external forces versus taking personal responsibility (or taking personal credit versus accepting chance and fate).

Or perhaps I'm just very pessimistic.

I scored "very pessimistic" too, and I am the furthest thing from it. I am extremely positive and resilient. But I am also a realist. I can see situations for what they are, and for me that is a sign of positivity. Once I assess a situation realistically, I am in a better position to solve problems for a good outcome. Pessimism would come into play only if, after assessing the situation, you just blame other people or decide you are powerless. I don't know if the test really measured all of those kinds of things.

In the case of dancing, I think it's realistic to understand that being asked/rejection comes from many factors and not just one's dance skills.
I've gone to dances (not just AT) where I know my skill level is good comparatively speaking. Yet sometimes I don't get asked to dance a lot. This could be because of cliques/groups of friends/familiarity (I admittedly don't frequent the same venues a lot, so I am less known), looks (not disparaging myself, I'm just not a young model type), and often just a surplus of women which means even some excellent dancers will sit out sometimes.

[Zoopsia59]

http://www.stanford.edu/class/msande271/onlinetools/LearnedOpt.html


17. You prepared a special meal for a friend and he/she barely touched the food.
I wasn't a good cook.
I made the meal in a rush.

He/she is an ungrateful wretch!

Your romantic partner wants to cool things off for a while.
I'm too self-centered.
I don't spend enough time with him/her.
He's an idiot who doesn't know a good thing when he's got it

and seriously... how many people want to cool things down when they feel you spend too LITTLE time with them? Doesn't that mean they think it is already TOO cool?
Isn't the more obvious answer:
"I focus too MUCH attention on him and am too clingy?"

Your stocks are at an all-time low.
I didn't know much about the business climate at the time.
I made a poor choice of stocks.

I didn't know much about the business climate resulting in a poor choice of stocks...

For some reason, my answers for these questions were almost never on the list
;)

[Zoopsia59]

http://www.stanford.edu/class/msande271/onlinetools/LearnedOpt.html

30. You ask someone to dance and he/she says no.
I am not a good enough dancer.
He/she doesn't like to dance.

Yeah right... that guy who came to a dance and has been dancing all night with everyone else turned me down because he dosn't like to dance. :rolleyes:

Personally, I didn't think much at all of this test. It seemed they were assessing self-esteem more than optimism. Do you answer with something that is a general statement of yourself, or do you answer with a "specific to the situation" statement of yourself.

I received several "average" marks, a couple of "moderately pessimistic" marks and a couple of "moderately optimistic/hopeful" marks... And from that, my final score was:

Very Pessimistic.
Huh?

[dchester]

17. You prepared a special meal for a friend and he/she barely touched the food.
I wasn't a good cook.
I made the meal in a rush.

He/she is an ungrateful wretch!

Your romantic partner wants to cool things off for a while.
I'm too self-centered.
I don't spend enough time with him/her.
He's an idiot who doesn't know a good thing when he's got it

and seriously... how many people want to cool things down when they feel you spend too LITTLE time with them? Doesn't that mean they think it is already TOO cool?
Isn't the more obvious answer:
"I focus too MUCH attention on him and am too clingy?"

Your stocks are at an all-time low.
I didn't know much about the business climate at the time.
I made a poor choice of stocks.

I didn't know much about the business climate resulting in a poor choice of stocks...

For some reason, my answers for these questions were almost never on the list
;)

Yeah, there were a lot of questions where neither of the answers would apply to me.

[ant]

Very Pessimistic.


So did I.

Has anybody got a result without the word pessimistic in it?

[bordertangoman]

30. You ask someone to dance and he/she says no.
I am not a good enough dancer.
He/she doesn't like to dance.

Yeah right... that guy who came to a dance and has been dancing all night with everyone else turned me down because he dosn't like to dance. :rolleyes:

Personally, I didn't think much at all of this test. It seemed they were assessing self-esteem more than optimism. Do you answer with something that is a general statement of yourself, or do you answer with a "specific to the situation" statement of yourself.

I received several "average" marks, a couple of "moderately pessimistic" marks and a couple of "moderately optimistic/hopeful" marks... And from that, my final score was:

Very Pessimistic.
Huh?


aha! you are hoist by your own petard! your response to the questionnaire is pessimistic.

42. You do a questionaire which scores you as pessimistic:
1. You think its a poorly complied quastionaire.
2. There are too many leading questions which trap you into the wrong answers
3. Its all BTM's fault for raising it in the first place.

So i suggest to the question;
You ask someone to dance and they decline:
we proffer our own answers; for example
1. she's a stuck up tart who thinks the sun shines out.......
2. Her leg in plaster and I didnt notice that she'd arrived in a wheelchair.

please add your own

[Zoopsia59]

a
42. You do a questionaire which scores you as pessimistic:
1. You think its a poorly complied quastionaire.


So an optimist never critically evaluates anything? Seriously? Ok.. if that's the definition - never seeing anything as flawed and in need of improvement, EVER - then yeah, I'm not an optimist.

I do a questionaire which gives me a breakdown of categories that results in scores of "average" and a balance of "Moderately optimistic" and "moderately pessimistic", and my final score from those categories is "Very pessimistic".

In what crazy statistical world does that make any sense at all?

The test's own results do not support the conclusion regardless of what I think.

So I'm sticking to my belief that it is either a very poorly designed test, or their calculator is broken.

And I totally blame you for posting it!
Pfft!
:p

but I'd still dance with you...(topic, topic... what was the topic?)

[Peaches]

(topic, topic... what was the topic?)Don't know.

But I reject it out of hand!

[dchester]

Don't know.

But I reject it out of hand! I wish you people weren't so pessimistic.

:cool:

[Peaches]

The project you are in charge of is a great success.
I kept a close watch over everyone's work.
Everyone devoted a lot of time and energy to it.
Um...yeah. I'm good at what I do, and will do what it takes to make it successful...despite that @#$$#%@#$%-ing slacker what didn't do squat but will get a cut of the award money anyhow...which is why I hate working on teams.

3. You get lost driving to a friend's house.
I missed my turn.
My friend gave me bad directions.
Bugger.

26. You do exceptionally well in a job interview.
I felt extremely confident during the interview.
I interview well.
Huh. Last time that happened I walked in an hour late, drenched in sweat, hating them and hating life and already decided not to work for them. I wonder what happened this time?

29. You've been feeling run-down lately.
I never get a chance to relax.
I was exceptionally busy this week.
Uh, yeah. It's called spending most of my waking hours never seeing sunlight...and going to bed around midnight and getting up at 4:30.

37. Your doctor tells you that you are in good physical shape.
I make sure I exercise frequently.
I am very health conscious.
I find another doctor, because this one is obviously a quack.

39. Your doctor tells you that you eat too much sugar.
I don't pay much attention to my diet.
You can't avoid sugar, it's in everything.
We've already established that my doctor is my soon-to-be ex-doctor, on account of being a quack (see: previous response). This comment only confirms it.

42. You fall down a great deal while skiing.
Skiing is difficult.
The trails were icy.
What the hell was I doing skiing?

44. Your stocks are at an all-time low.
I didn't know much about the business climate at the time.
I made a poor choice of stocks.
Um, dude? Everyone's stocks are about at an all time low. Where the hell have you been?

48. They won't honor your credit card at a store.
I sometimes overestimate how much money I have.
I sometimes forget to pay my credit-card bill.
I know I paid the bill. Give me the phone, I am going to ream someone...and given the mood I'm in today, this is going to be FUN!

[Dave Bailey]

I like Peaches version better.

And yes, I too am a pessimist. Well, duh.