NDCA Nationals in Provo or USA Dance Nationals in Los Angeles

[HoustonBoydancersmom]

What is the difference - exposure, attendance or prestige in the two comps? Or any difference at all? I have seen many ads for the USA dance comp and it seems to be more well known. None at all for the NDCA Provo comp. My son's partner's Mom is dead set on going to Provo. I just need more info on why it is so important to compete in NDCA Nationals and not USA Dance Nationals. I am a newbie to all these comps. Ty for your help!

[etp777]

Won't speak to these two particular competitions, as others can do a better job, but in general, you're going to look at USADance if you're competing in an amateur couple, and prefer NDCA if you're competing pro-am.

[DanceSport-VP]

I rarely have the time to engage in Blogs - but thought I could shed some light on this topic that will help couples decide which competition to attend.

Many competitions use the words “National”, “American” and “United States” in their title. It is important to remember, there is only one official National Amateur DanceSport Championship in the USA, recognized by an international authority. That is the USA Dance National DanceSport Championships

There is only one DanceSport organization that the United States Olympic Committee has recognized as the National Governing Body of DanceSport in the USA – USA Dance.

There is only one organization in the USA recognized by the International DanceSport Federation (IDSF) to hold the Annual Amateur Championships that qualifies couples to represent the United States in the IDSF World Championships – USA Dance. Further, the IDSF is the only dance organization recognized by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) to conduct DanceSport Championships.

There is only one organization in the USA that selects and then sends National representatives to the IDSF World Championships and World Cups and finances their participation in excess of $65,000 – USA Dance. And this all accomplished with the commitment of a volunteer workforce.

If the goals of your competitive career include winning a National title that actually has international recognition, you should be competing in Los Angeles at the USA National DanceSport Championships. The titles in Provo are granted under license from the NDCA to the American Ballroom Company (for profit organization) and then to BYU via contractual arrangement.

No winners of the event held in Provo receive a spot on the World Team or any official recognition as National Amateur Champions by USA Dance. The event is not governed by the IDSF sporting and democratic principles that athletes competing under the IDSF umbrella worldwide are able to enjoy to guarantee fair competition. In USA Dance you become a “member”, in the NDCA an amateur is allowed to “register”. This is not just a matter of semantics…”Members” have a voice through elections, a chapter structure and elected representatives, “Registrants” do not.

I am sure there are opposing points of view - but if we can keep this thread about the facts, as i have tried to do, it would be helpful to those young athletes and parents that are confused.

Ken Richards
VP of DanceSport, USA Dance

[syncopationator]

Glad to see that there are dancesport officials combing through DF. It gives some hope that our opinions (i.e. complaints,suggestions, etc.) are at the very least being heard.

[Chris Stratton]

Who a comp is recognized by is in most cases unimportant.

Who attends is what really matters.

If you dont have a sense of who the strong couples are, counting the number of entries in your division isnt a bad start.

[DanceSport-VP]

Who a comp is recognized by is in most cases unimportant.

Disagree - In this case we are talking about the "National Championships". Should anyone be able to tempt the dancing public with a name that isn't recognized?

And recognized usually tells a couple something about the rulebook and principles they are dancing under.

And when you say "in most cases" what do you mean?

[Chris Stratton]

Disagree - In this case we are talking about the "National Championships". Should anyone be able to tempt the dancing public with a name that isn't recognized?


The recognition that really matters is that bestowed by those who enter.

Your argument is like saying that the US government gains its legitimacy from its membership in the UN.

[Larinda McRaven]

Hi Ken, and welcome back. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint on our Forum. (Blogs are for one person to ramble endlessly by themselves, we are definitely a FORUM in that everyone shares their opinions, and it is a critical difference)

And everyone who treads into this thread.... The question at hand, as it always does, raises some delicate issues, many of which tend to lead to heated debates with many people getting really angry and throwing attacks. I would like to caution everyone from the outset to try to remain calm and present their opinions as courteously as you would if you were a guest in the other persons living room.

(additional edit: ... and introducing your Mothers to each other at the same time... and your Kindergarten teacher was present too, and possibly your Rabbi/Pastor.)

Thanks everyone.

[ChaChaMama]

As a mom and a dancer, if I had a child in your situation, I would opt for the USA Dance Nationals. (The larger regionally based competitions are also EXCELLENT opportunities, and I'm assuming you've already sampled one or more.)

My reasons:
1) It will draw most of the top U.S. amateur couples, both in your child's age division and in the older age division. Provo may have a larger field, because a huge number of Utah couples will compete, but it will be less representative of the country as a whole.

2) If you want your child to see the role models he might aspire to be someday in the Youth and Adult categories, you are guaranteed an awesome opportunity to see them at USA Dance Nationals. A fair number will also be at Provo, but often not all.

3) There are some extra factors involved when competing at altitude. Some people barely notice differences in elevation; other people can have a variety of negative physical reactions to it (windedness, fatigue, nausea). I would want to maximize the odds of my child turning in her (or in your case, his) best performance, so I would either want to get to Provo enough in advance to make that altitude adjustment OR opt for L.A.

[Chris Stratton]

1) It will draw most of the top U.S. amateur couples, both in your child's age division and in the older age division.

Yes - that, and not the press release spin, is the kind of thing that matters.

[Larinda McRaven]

HBdm...
USADance is a member organization of IDSF, the international committee representing the amateurs interests. IDSF holds amateur-only competitions.

Provo is run by the NDCA which is a member organization of the WDDSC, the international committee representing the professionals interests. WDDSC holds professional, amateur, and pro-am competitions.

Why not go to both...? And then make your own decision.

[DanceSport-VP]

Larinda:
Thanks for the reminder - but you should see some of the discusions that take place in my living room... this is tame.

Cha Cha Mama:
Thanks for the perspective of a mom and the actual events

Chris:
The UN analogy is a little far-fetched and for me off-topic. I don't need to defend the legitamcy of USA Dance, the IDSF, the USOC, the IOC when it comes to sports. One event is affiliated with all these and the other event isn't. I am still wondering what you mean by "in most cases". It would seem to imply that for some comps it does matter and for some it doesn't.

[Chris Stratton]

On a practical level, both competitions have some unique and strict requirements to deal with. Be sure to read dress codes and (for USAD) prequalfication requirements when making plans.

[Larinda McRaven]

Larinda:
Thanks for the reminder - but you should see some of the discusions that take place in my living room... this is tame.


;-) I can imagine! See you next week.

[Chris Stratton]

Chris:
The UN analogy is a little far-fetched and for me off-topic. I don't need to defend the legitamcy of USA Dance, the IDSF, the USOC, the IOC when it comes to sports. One event is affiliated with all these and the other event isn't.

What you keep saying over and over is that people outside the US should be responsible for awarding the right to hold the US championship.

In contrast, what I am saying is that dancers inside the US bestow the real recognition on a competition by participating in it.

[syncopationator]

HBDM - I as an amateur competitor am going to the USA Dance National Championships in LA. Why? because USA Dance is an organization whose sole purpose is to promote and organize AMATEUR events and is the IDSF regocognized organization. The NDCA is a profesional organization that also hosts pro/am and am/am events.

Nothing against the NDCA, as I also participate in Pro/AM and AM/AM comps held by the NDCA. However, since the question at hand has to do with where do I go to obtain an amateur national title, then the USA Dance National Championships is where I will be for that particular purpose.

[DanceSport-VP]

What you keep saying over and over is that people outside the US should be responsible for awarding the right to hold the US championship.

In contrast, what I am saying is that dancers inside the US bestow the real recognition on a competition by participating in it.

I don't think i said this once. But what i do say - if you are going to bcome the National Amateur Champion for the purpose of dancing in a world championship, the organizaion that is recognized matters.

If you and i dediced to get together and run the Dance Forum National Amatuer Ice Skating Championships - would anyone expect to see our winners at the worlds or the olympics? Of course not...

The quality of th comp in provo is not the issue - it is the perception that confused parents think it is the "National Championships" and that their child should be going to worlds that bothers me... why me - becasue i have had to answer that question from a disappointed parent almost every year for the last 3 years when they findout they spent their money to go to the wrong championship.

When you say the recognition and sanctions don't matter it may confuse a few people that are looking for information.

[Chris Stratton]

I don't think i said this once.

Actually you are about to make the awarded by people outside the US argument yet again:

But what i do say - if you are going to become the National Amateur Champion for the purpose of dancing in a world championship, the organizaion that is recognized matters.

Because it is recognized by the external to US organization holding that particular international contest.

If you and i dediced to get together and run the Dance Forum National Amatuer Ice Skating Championships - would anyone expect to see our winners at the worlds or the olympics? Of course not...

Because we would not be recognized by the people external to the US who run the olympics. But what would really matter is that we wouldnt have the support of the actual skaters in the US.

Consider if IDSF and USAD added a salsa division. Would this be a legitimate national title? Under your argument yes, under mine it would depend on the reaction over time of the salsa community - probably dissmissive at first, but that might be changeable over time.

---

Why does the distinction matter? Because an event that believes it gets its legitimacy from recognition by an international bureaucoracy will be primarily responsible to that bureaucracy, while one that believes it gets its legitimacy from its participants will be primarily responsible to its participants.

[DanceSport-VP]

Actually you are about to make the awarded by people outside the US argument yet again:

Because it is recognized by the external to US organization holding that particular international contest.

Apparently you have a better way that all the other countries of the world should switch to. And before you argue the point: because everyone else does it doesn't mean it is right... i will point out that becasue Chris doesn't agree with everyone else it doesn't make him right.

Because we would not be recognized by the people external to the US who run the olympics. But what would really matter is that we wouldnt have the support of the actual skaters in the US.

It would be fun to have the Chicken/Egg discussion with you sometime.

Consider if IDSF and USAD added a salsa division. Would this be a legitimate national title? Under your argument yes, under mine it would depend on the reaction over time of the salsa community - probably dissmissive at first, but that might be changeable over time.


I guess you haven't been keeping up with the rest of the world. The International Dance Organization (IDO) has been running world championships in Salsa and other dances for many years. They are a recognized member body of the IDSF. If USA Dance decided to run a National Championship in Salsa and send a couple to the World Championship it could do so. Granted there may not be a lot of support in the first couple of years - but eventually the couples would learn of this opprotunity to represnt the USA in a World Championship and support would grow.
---


Why does the distinction matter? Because an event that believes it gets its legitimacy from recognition by an international bureaucoracy will be primarily responsible to that bureaucracy, while one that believes it gets its legitimacy from its participants will be primarily responsible to its participants.


I guess you are in favor of a sport with no rules. Perhaps someone (maybe you) could throw a lot of money at a lot of thier favorite couples, pick judges that are their best friends, tell them who to mark, hand out perfromance enhancing drugs, let the DJ play the music at any tempo he wants, let the scurtineer round to the tabulations as they see fit - need i go on. It could be a very popular competition and by your new definition of "Legitimate" i should volunteer for that organization.

I would prefer to finish this in my living room - so i could really tell you what i think.... since we can't i am done for now.

If anyone else wants any other information - i am here for you.

[Meagan]

It seems to me we are getting away from the OP's original question...and perhaps confusing her even more?

I would say for a vast majority of couples (other than the handful that will actually go to worlds or have a chance to compete for that spot) being the official nationals probably isn't as important the competitive field you are dancing in. ChaChaMama brings up a good point that at USADance you will be assured to see the top couples competing in the top events (because they will want the chance to compete internationally) and as inspiration for a child this shouldn't be overlooked. However it is also my understanding that there is some amazing dancing in Utah as well...just may not have a guarantee.

If you can only pick one (and you aren't concerned about your child going to worlds just yet), I would probably look at the cost and the size of my child's heat. Additional factors may be the dress code (for open dancers USADance may be an easier choice but for childrens rules haha who knows? My guess is they're both pretty strict there)

Without knowing all the relevant information that pertains to you I would lean towards USADance in LA because of many of the reasons already mentioned. But recognized or not if my event at USAD only had two couples in it and my event in Provo had a quarterfinal (and again obviously I wasn't concerned with qualifying for international competition) I'd be headed to Utah ;)

[Chris Stratton]

I guess you are in favor of a sport with no rules.

No, I said nothing remotely of the sort.

What I am saying is that competitions earn their true legitimacy from their participants.

The logical extension is that a competition which wants to develop or maintain legitimacy might do well to be responsive to the communities whose support it desires, for example when revising its rules.

[Ithink]

Sorry for the mini-highjack, but since we have the USA Dance VP actively participating here and "defending" USA Dance's honor, mind stopping by the Proficiency Point thread and shedding some light for your clueless members as to: 1) new points updates and their effect, b) the timeline of a points database availability and c) the other random, but nonetheless good, questions people seem to have there?

Defending the USA Dance Nationals' legitimacy against the big, bad NDCA Nationals is all well and good, but how about actually addressing members' concerns that are much more down-to-earth (and practical)?

[Lorelei]

mind stopping by the Proficiency Point thread and shedding some light for your clueless members as to: 1) new points updates and their effect, b) the timeline of a points database availability and c) the other random, but nonetheless good, questions people seem to have there?


Yes, any official clarification would be much appreciated

[3wishes]

I will chime in - lived in Houston, lived in Colorado, Utah, Calif. etc. And I'll base my comment on the physical well being of your child. If your child is not use to being at 4,500 feet - it does not take just a few days to get use to it. Much less dance compete. IF the choice is Provo - do yourself a big favor and check the web for altitude sickness so your well aware of the signs, for yourself and your family. And drink lots and lots of water - even if your not dancing. I cannot begin to tell you how many people I've had to drive down to the lower elevations or take to the hospital for oxygen, because they treated the altitude elevation the same as where they live.

[Larinda McRaven]

So we have several nice points of view as to what people are using as their criteria for making their personal decisions. Can we continue in that fashion?

Chris, I suggest that you use a USADance representative (or even simply attend yourself) at a meeting to bring up your concerns??? At the very least start a separate thread to once again go over why you think USADance is wrong. You ave made your point here quite clear, and continuing to reiterate it over and over obviously only serves to disrupt the thread about HBdm's question.

[fascination]

I will chime in - lived in Houston, lived in Colorado, Utah, Calif. etc. And I'll base my comment on the physical well being of your child. If your child is not use to being at 4,500 feet - it does not take just a few days to get use to it. Much less dance compete. IF the choice is Provo - do yourself a big favor and check the web for altitude sickness so your well aware of the signs, for yourself and your family. And drink lots and lots of water - even if your not dancing. I cannot begin to tell you how many people I've had to drive down to the lower elevations or take to the hospital for oxygen, because they treated the altitude elevation the same as where they live.as someone whose husband used to regularly travel to Aspen and almost had to be driven down a mountain, I whole-heartedly concur

[reb]

What is the difference - exposure, attendance or prestige in the two comps? Or any difference at all? I have seen many ads for the USA dance comp and it seems to be more well known. None at all for the NDCA Provo comp. My son's partner's Mom is dead set on going to Provo. I just need more info on why it is so important to compete in NDCA Nationals and not USA Dance Nationals. I am a newbie to all these comps. Ty for your help!

Speaking as a finalist in multiple styles over multiple years who attended both . . . .

USA Dance Nationals is the recognized event for Amateurs in the US. If you don't win at USA Dance Nationals, you don't have the title. It is a great experience. And it has a sense of community, participation, and helping because it is a volunteer group - you can become involved in regional qualifiers, etc. A broad cross-section of Americana attends USA Dance Nationals. It is held in a hotel and in this respect bears a resemblance to NDCA comps.

NDCA Amateur Nationals at BYU is an extremely large Amateur event, judging by the stadium size which no USA Dance event comes close, the long days, and the huge heat sizes. At NDCA Nationals there are more participants, a university environment, at altitude, and there is a lot of very aggressive talent. We found out more when we started looking for practice space one year, amazed to find the dance program housed in the athletic building among all those amazing facilities - that's when I got it about BYU having such ballroom and latin dance talent. The comp is held in a large stadium and in this respect provides a different and exhilarating experience.

In my experience, the top Standard and Latin Amateur couples in the US seem to be at both.

However, only some of the top Smooth and Rhythm Amateur couples in the US are at both. In my experience, the NDCA Amateur Nationals finals in these events includes couples who do not participate in USA Dance. [edit: let me rephrase this to be less politically correct and thusly more clear - the top USA Dance Smooth and Rhythm couples do not usually/always place as high here - they often encounter superior talent here, so if you think you're good, go to both].

I think it is imperative that we Amateurs support USA Dance - and support can be as little as competing in USA Dance events.

I also think that USA Dance competitors who do not attend NDCA Nationals are missing something and that they should try to experience it, recognizing that we all have to make choices and cannot attend everything.

In summary, we were always amazed at people who stridently only attended one or the other - we tried to encourage USA-Dance-mindset-only people to attend NDCA Amateur Nationals and vice versa.

[vcolfari]

Thank you, Ken, for participating here and sharing information about the USA Dance National DanceSport Championships. I appreciate this information.

[Katarzyna]

Just to chime in real quick, if you are looking for an exciting competition Provo is light years ahead of the USA dance (the audience participation and energy level there is amasing and I think even blackpool cannot compare), thought USA dance is the one that sends couples to the worlds.. Not sure about numbers but I think the sizes are quite comparable. Levels are not very far off either. I would go with the advice people gave you, if you are to select one, i would look at costs etc of each one and see which one will be easier to attend.

(did I mention NDCA nationals is my absolutely favourite event of the year... MINUS THE COSTUME RULES)

We have been to both for last few years.

[sambanada]

I think I understand. If you want to be the National champion, you need to go to the USA Dance National championship. Anyone can call their competition Nationals....but only one in fact is. So if you want your child to actually have the experience of competing at the nationals, then USA nationals is the one. If you want your child to compete at a large, but great event, Utah Nationals is fun and interesting to see. However, there is only one Nationals that is recognized by USA and the world as being our Nationals. Yes? So NDCA Nationals is the name of the event, but USA Natiopnals is actually the USA title event. Am I correct?

[Larinda McRaven]

No, each organization has its own Nationals. Each organization offers a legitimate title under their name and the umbrella of their parent organization. But whether or not someone finds value in the title is another matter.

[sambanada]

This is a bit confusing to me, since we only had one nationals. So maybe good to go to both events.

[Casayoto]

Correct me if I'm wrong Larinda, but the USAD Nationals is the only one of the two recognized by the world as the USA Amateur National Championship, right?

[SDsalsaguy]

Correct me if I'm wrong Larinda, but the USAD Nationals is the only one of the two recognized by the world as the USA Amateur National Championship, right?
Obviously I'm not Larinda, nor do I mean to put words in her mout. Speaking for myself, however, while it depends what you mean as far as "recognized by the world," in essence you are correct, i.e. the USAD nationals is the only one that has any official bearing beyond the USA.

[Larinda McRaven]

Correct me if I'm wrong Larinda, but the USAD Nationals is the only one of the two recognized by the world as the USA Amateur National Championship, right?

Yes and No. What do you mean by the world.

USADance has an world parent body, IDSF, and that parent body recognizes USA Amateur National Championship.

NDCA has a world parent body, WDDSC, and they recognize the U.S. National Amateur Dancesport Championships.

If you are asking who has Olympic ties, then yes, USADance is the only one that has that world recognition. If you are asking which organization send their couples to a World Championship, then yes, USADance. So if you are an Olympic hopeful or are the top two in the country (and get sent to their various World Championships), yes that is USADance.

[Chris Stratton]

To be more accurate, USA Dance gets to send representatives to a handful of IDSF world events, and currently chooses to send the highest placing elgible finalists from its nationals. Otherwise its a "closed" championship of little interest to anyone outside our borders. Contrast a handful of noted national "open" championships in other countries, some run by IDSF affiliates and some by WDC affiliates, that are the kind of events that attract international notice.

[reb]

Just to chime in real quick, if you are looking for an exciting competition Provo is light years ahead of the USA dance (the audience participation and energy level there is amasing and I think even blackpool cannot compare), thought USA dance is the one that sends couples to the worlds.. Not sure about numbers but I think the sizes are quite comparable. Levels are not very far off either. I would go with the advice people gave you, if you are to select one, i would look at costs etc of each one and see which one will be easier to attend.

(did I mention NDCA nationals is my absolutely favourite event of the year... MINUS THE COSTUME RULES)

We have been to both for last few years.

I agree - and Kat is one of those who we enjoyed at both comps. :D

[reb]

As I started my journey, I used to worry why the two organizations couldn't co-exist better.

Having been to the mountain and back, I now am glad both these opportunities exist because it was such a richer experience.

I'm looking forward taking another journey . . . .
:banana::banana:

[Chris Stratton]

If they want to do the USA Dance event this year and have not already done a qualifier, the poster's child and partner will need to get to one of three remaining events this month in Long Beach, Chicago, or Bethesda.

[reb]

If they want to do the USA Dance event this year and have not already done a qualifier, the poster's child and partner will need to get to one of three remaining events this month in Long Beach, Chicago, or Bethesda.

Good call Chris.

Long Beach - Southwest Regional National Qualifying Event: Feb 5-6
Chicago Regional NQE: Feb 19-21
Bethesda - Mid-Atlantic NQE: Feb 27-28
http://usadance.org/dancesport/competition-calendar

You and DW have now just reminded me that I have a job to do this weekend. Gotta go start a thread.

[HoustonBoydancersmom]

I am so grateful for all the advice! My son started ballroom at 4 yrs old, he is now 12. He loves it. He has been dancing with his 9yr old partner for a year and 6 mos. She has been dancing ballroom 2yrs.
Her Mom just has to have them go to Provo. Since-2 days ago when I asked advice she booked airplane tickets,just to push us to go. She bought tickets without giving me any say. We are on a very limited budget, but they are not. My son has his heart set on going to the Arnold youth dancesport comp in Columbus. So we do not have the funds to do all 3. Again ty so much for all your advice and input.


What is the difference - exposure, attendance or prestige in the two comps? Or any difference at all? I have seen many ads for the USA dance comp and it seems to be more well known. None at all for the NDCA Provo comp. My son's partner's Mom is dead set on going to Provo. I just need more info on why it is so important to compete in NDCA Nationals and not USA Dance Nationals. I am a newbie to all these comps. Ty for your help!

[3wishes]

wow! i would never ever book flights without the consent of the other parent and a joint agreement as to where to compete with the kids, especially where budget is concerned.

[Joe]

Calling the winners at Provo the "National Champions" is like the NFL calling the winners of the Super Bowl the "World Champions..."

[Chris Stratton]

No it isn't because the scope (of both ballroom championships) is merely nonexclusive, not extraterritorial.

[NonieS]

wow! i would never ever book flights without the consent of the other parent and a joint agreement as to where to compete with the kids, especially where budget is concerned.


Goodness! Me too!!! I do not think I could handle that.... I would be so angry if someone did that to me... Good thing u seem to be more patient bc that lady would definitely get a taste of a more unattractive side of my personality!!

[SDsalsaguy]

You need to decide what is best for you/your son... you do not have to go to Utah just because the partner's mom purchased her tickets! She decided to do that without consulting you, so it is entirely on her if her airfare gets wasted. More to the point, if the partnership is going to work out, she cannot simply force her way. Keep in mind that while they may have the $, you have the "boy" -- which, in the US ballroom world, is still harder to come by!

[CANI]

You need to decide what is best for you/your son... you do not have to go to Utah just because the partner's mom purchased her tickets! She decided to do that without consulting you, so it is entirely on her if her airfare gets wasted. More to the point, if the partnership is going to work out, she cannot simply force her way. Keep in mind that while they may have the $, you have the "boy" -- which, in the US ballroom world, is still harder to come by!
Excellent points!

[fascination]

I am so grateful for all the advice! My son started ballroom at 4 yrs old, he is now 12. He loves it. He has been dancing with his 9yr old partner for a year and 6 mos. She has been dancing ballroom 2yrs.
Her Mom just has to have them go to Provo. Since-2 days ago when I asked advice she booked airplane tickets,just to push us to go. She bought tickets without giving me any say. We are on a very limited budget, but they are not. My son has his heart set on going to the Arnold youth dancesport comp in Columbus. So we do not have the funds to do all 3. Again ty so much for all your advice and input.
if she has that much money, she can swallow her mistake

[NonieS]

could not agree more with SDsalsaguy and Fascination... you have the benefit of having the ultimate commodity...

back when my brother and I both figure skated, he decided he really wanted to do pairs, but only if he could skate with me. I didn't really want to do pairs and, honestly, my parents would have loved it if he had skated with another girl bc in the figure skating world, boys are so hard to come by that if a girl really wants to do pairs, her parents will frequently pay for the boys lessons AND comp expenses (transportation, housing, registration, etc), just to secure a partner for their daughter. As it were, I finally agreed to do pairs and my parents were stuck paying for everything X2... but they could have had a pretty sweet deal going on!!!

[Casayoto]

While I will agree with the other posters that the boy is the more precious commodity, and that the partners mother is completely in the wrong by buying a ticket to pressure you into going to a comp, I will give a pre-emptive warning not to get attached to the idea that your son is more important than his partner, or give him that impression. There are some guys that can't find or keep a partner, no matter how "valuable" they are. Attitude and personality, including a shared sense of equality is vital to a successful partnership. It's something that should be taught while they are still young.

There's way too many ballroom brats already...

[CANI]

Attitude and personality, including a shared sense of equality is vital to a successful partnership.

I agree...that's also why I don't think that the one who has more money should be the one calling the shots...everything like this, especially considering children are involved, would ideally be discussed between the parents/children and a shared decision reached.

[star_gazer]

I know alot about kids competing on a limited budget and I would recommend doing both. I haven't been to the "Arnold" comp (but I'm sure its great) but both the Provo comp and the LA Nationals will have large events for kids, expose your kids to their competitors and offer the best environments in the nation in which kids can dance. My son and daughter have been dancing together...on a limited budget for six years...and I highly recommend BOTH competitions.

[fascination]

let me clarify...that my comment is not an endorsement of the boy being the hotter commodity, only a critique of persons of means throwing their weight around just because they can

[SDsalsaguy]

let me clarify...that my comment is not an endorsement of the boy being the hotter commodity, only a critique of persons of means throwing their weight around just because they can
Same here; my point was simply that the parent with the $ didn't have all the cards.

[samina]

if she has that much money, she can swallow her mistake

or perhaps she can pay the expenses for boy & mum to travel... seems to me a nice way to rectify the situation.

[NonieS]

Same here; my point was simply that the parent with the $ didn't have all the cards.


yeah that was my point as well.... gosh we are so good at clearly voicing our thoughts.... lol

[19DancerBabyLin]

Her Mom just has to have them go to Provo. Since-2 days ago when I asked advice she booked airplane tickets,just to push us to go.

wow what a complete lack of respect for you! And you let your boy dance with her girl?!! beside the "rarer commodity" point, that is not the way to treat parents of your child's dance partner. I just hope that woman's attitude doesn't get passed onto her daughter... Otherwise she will be burning through many partners quickly in future!

[fascination]

19...sometimes the cost benefit analysis merits a certain level of tolerance for what one might otherwise reject...sometimes...and that is, IMO, each individual's call to make

[reb]

I know alot about kids competing on a limited budget and I would recommend doing both. I haven't been to the "Arnold" comp (but I'm sure its great) but both the Provo comp and the LA Nationals will have large events for kids, expose your kids to their competitors and offer the best environments in the nation in which kids can dance. My son and daughter have been dancing together...on a limited budget for six years...and I highly recommend BOTH competitions.

You may notice a common theme from those who have attended both ;)

Not that one has to do both in one year, both every year, or both right away.

[HoustonBoydancersmom]

We had in Dec 2009 agreed what comps we wanted to do but we have done so in past and not done all we agreed upon. We always call and say I am booking tickets get yours now - a heads up. Arnolds and Nationals were the first 2 we wanted to do after California this weekend. I wanted Arnolds she wanted Provo. We agreed if we could get a sponser we could do both- but have no sponser. When I found out how expensive it is to go to Provo. WOW! Air tickets are way more than I expected. I asked for advice on this forum. I presented MOM with the info and she just said we have to go to "Nationals". Well since then I am now the "bad guy" . My son is also an actor and we have to wait until this morning to know if he has a callback for a Blockbuster Hollywood film. So If he gets a callback we are unable to do anything in March. Filming starts In March. If he does not get a callback -no problem. But understandably she is upset. We are waiting to book tickets and everyone is getting nervous the prices will go up. Thank you all so much for all your advice. I printed it out and gave it to our coach and she is now very open minded about Provo. Do or do not- she leaves it up to us moms.
:confused:


I am so grateful for all the advice! My son started ballroom at 4 yrs old, he is now 12. He loves it. He has been dancing with his 9yr old partner for a year and 6 mos. She has been dancing ballroom 2yrs.
Her Mom just has to have them go to Provo. Since-2 days ago when I asked advice she booked airplane tickets,just to push us to go. She bought tickets without giving me any say. We are on a very limited budget, but they are not. My son has his heart set on going to the Arnold youth dancesport comp in Columbus. So we do not have the funds to do all 3. Again ty so much for all your advice and input.

[reb]

My son is also an actor and we have to wait until this morning to know if he has a callback for a Blockbuster Hollywood film.

Holey Moley!

:artsy:

[HoustonBoydancersmom]

The movie is a no go. I am bummed but I left it up to G-D to choose what path my son should take. Dance or acting. Everyone is now excited about the up coming comps and my son is thrilled he gets to go to "Arnolds". He has been looking forward to that comp for over a year. Thanks again for all your advice.

Holey Moley!

:artsy:

[LT]

NDCA has a world parent body, WDDSC, and they recognize the U.S. National Amateur Dancesport Championships.



Given that the NDCA has a parent body in the WDDSC, does anyone know whether the NDCA has considered sponsering the top couples from the NDCA Nationals (Provo) to compete at the WDC-AL World Open Championships in Paris? That would make for an interesting prize... Trip to Paris anyone?

[latingal]

Welcome to DF LT!

[Larinda McRaven]

I hadn't heard if the Amateur League had actually taken off or not...

[LT]

Thanks latingal!

Hi Larinda, I don't know how established the AL has to be to be "taken off"... but, they have held the Paris comp for the past couple years, they have an Asian "chapter" that lists 30 AL comps, and they appear to promote other open comps such as the International Championships, Cervia Italian Open, UK Open, Moscow Star, and British Open to name just a few...

[Warren J. Dew]

I hadn't heard if the Amateur League had actually taken off or not...

It looks like they're getting some continuity, going into their second year of world amateur championships. Their support seems to be based mostly in places where amateurs actually don't take money, like England and the pacific rim.

http://www.wdcamateurleague.com/news.php

[anniep]

Ok... and how does the United States Dance Nationals in Orlando fit into all of this? Those amateurs that win the title don't go on to another world event as well?

Thanks for the info-

[sambanada]

Anyone at the NDCA Nationals? Results? News?

[SDsalsaguy]

Ok... and how does the United States Dance Nationals in Orlando fit into all of this? Those amateurs that win the title don't go on to another world event as well?
In short, (a) it doesn't, and (b) no.

[Standarddancer]

I had been competed both before, both are great comps, Utah national has the most enthusiastic audience and you really feel the audience support and the great atmosphere, although I do agree the costume rules are so annoying!!! USA dance national is the largest amateur event and the official event to choose world reps for each category so definitely a must go. Its hard to say which one better, I would recommend both as both are large and competitive events.

[Standarddancer]

Well, just noticed Utah national this weekend. I wish all my friends doing well over there!!!

[tbrennen]

Just to stick my nose in. USA Dance, through the Ted Stevens Amateur Sports Act (which I belive created the USOC in its current form), is the only organization recognized by the US government as the national governing body for dancesport. I don't know if USA Dance still gets contacts from the government but, in years past, in cases when the US government needed to get official US information, it would contact USA Dance. (At the time, if it pertained to professional activities, USA Dance would contact the NDCA for the information as a courtesy.)

Part of this is due to the representative nature of the USA Dance structure which meets the criteria spelled out in the Act.

[sambanada]

News? Results?

[GJB]

There's some info on the dancebeat website.

[Chris Stratton]

Part of this is due to the representative nature of the USA Dance structure which meets the criteria spelled out in the Act.

Well, while that may sound good, but a government act rarely accomplishes quite what a simple reading of its title would suggest.

The reality is that you can pick between a system where some of the most debated rules affecting everyday local comps are actually made by overseas bureaucrats, one where the rules are made by US dance business people, or one where the rules are made by the same people who organize and often dance in the events.

Many people would assume that when USA dance claims to be a representative organization it means a form of the last - but actually, it means the first.

Which system of "representation" is better basically comes down to which group of decision makers comes closest to sharing your interests, or which you see the greatest likelihood of being able to lobby or join.

Many dancers conclude all three have serious flaws, but are worth tolerating for the more interesting of the competitions offered under them.

[JefeJP]

From Dancebeat:
Valentine Chmerkovskiy & Daria Chesnokova (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xysieQP9lFU) retained their #1 ranking winning all 5 dances with clear majorities and to us still looked like the champions. Taking a number of first places in all dances, second went to Ruslan Aydaev & Valeriya Kozharinova (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJWCy7D_4uw) (2,2,2,2,3). This was a great performance from these two and they look set to cement their #2 ranking in this country. Placing 3,3,3,3,2 and probably the crowd favorites tonight were Oleksandr Althukov & Oksana Dmytrnko. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH6rVIOxLXk) This couple also were in top form and challenged all the way. Indeed, the top 3 couples were totally on form but did one run out of steam at this high altitude?

Placing 4th were Pasha Pashkov & Daniela Karagach (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De3ThnN3rO8) (4,4,4,5,5). This was a great result for this duo and signals a possible return to form after some disappointing results. Their dancing in neat and precise - but did we see the passion? They were the 10-Dance champions. Andrei Kazlouski & Kate Kapshandy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tROdoK5qV7M) were 4th 5,5,5,4,4. We felt their best dances were cha and samba, but evidently the judges did not agree. Could they have placed higher? Mmmmm! Tal Livshits & Vlada Semenova (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGnBy06hpvc) were 6th, 7,6,6,6,6 and they also were strong in 10-dance, placing in both finals. this was a 7-couple final and 7th went to Alexey Karaulov & Sasha Nissengolts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er6g3GQj4bQ) 6,7,7,7,7 who gave, we thought, a personal best performance.

In short summary:
1. Val and Dasha
2. Ruslan and Valeriya
3. Sasha and Oksana
4. Pasha and Daniella
5. Andrei and Kate
6. Tal and Vlada
7. Alexei and Sasha

[sambanada]

Thanks for sharing. I found more.
From www.dancebeat.com (http://www.dancebeat.com)

Two Titles Retained At Provo!

Last night at the US National Championships in Provo, w couples retained their 2009 titles. Ronen Zhinstein & Mariam Ismaylova (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGhqcjdxdnE) won the Amateur Standard and Casey Treu & Rachel Pope (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pMOuSIPLlc) kept the Youth Latin.

http://www.dancebeat.com/images/Provo-AmStan.gifFor us Ronen & Mariam were the comfortable winners giving one of their best performances to date. They received the majority of first place marks in 3 dances but the quickstep and waltz were a close call with runners-up, Igor Mikushov & Margaret Midura (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJqB1lTG1ko) taking 9 first place marks in Q and 8 in W. Igor & Margaret placed 2nd in all 5 dances. 3rd place in all 5 went to Pasha Pashkov & Deniela Karagach. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTjPJ3ehjCg) They were certainly in the mix taking a significant number of 1st and 2nd places in all dances.

We felt these three were well clear. Leading the chasing group were Tal Livshits & Vlada Semenova (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Z6qcAzx7c) who were 4th, 5,4,5,4,4. This was an OK performance from Tal & Vlada, but for us Tal still looks a little uncomfortable in this style. Relaxation is key!! With 4,5,4,5,5,5 Leonid Burlo & Sasha Alekseyeva (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TER9Q6HMoxg) were 5th. Lots of power, but there were some definite floorcraft issues tonight. Closing the final were Simeon Stoynov & Kora Stoynova. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tExflrIp9M) We didn’t think Simeon & Kora had an especially strong showing tonight. Normally, we felt they could have been 4th but tonight they failed to make it clear.

[sambanada]

and some more from www.dancebeat.com (http://www.dancebeat.com)

Best Amateur Smooth in the Nation!
The Amateur Smooth at this year’s NDCA U.S. National Championships in Provo, Utah was like last year’s, the best in the nation. Travis Tuft & Jaimee Tuft (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j33-65sSzLk) from UT won the competition by taking three firsts and placing second in the foxtrot. For us Travis & Jaimee were possibly a good balanced choice for this position but overall there was at least two couples that challenged that position. Kyle Spinder & Allie Edgington (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQMizlSTGXw) from UT who placed second (2,2,1,2) and Nathan Cashion & Jesse Green (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btJne8YmvKk)from UT who placed third (4,3,3,3).

The http://www.dancebeat.com/images/ProvoAmSmoothsecondP.jpgrest of the final was also of good quality and worthy of mention: Lance Evanson & Katie Thorn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3965NVix) from UT placed fourth, Andrew Nelson & Jennifer Gulbrandsen from NV took fifth and Jericho Dow & Becky Lindstone were sixth. There were also a number of semifinalists that also could have made this final in at least a few dances. This was an excellent event and we will tell you in coming issues of Dance Beat why we thought second and third position could have challenged. So subscribe now.

Tonight we expect a thrilling Professional Standard event with some prominent couples competing for “top dog” in the American Battle of Champions. We also will be seeing the Junior, Pre-teen and Amateur Standard and Youth Latin so we will keep you up to date, so keep logging in for more.

[Joe]

Holy crap, how many judges do they have for each event?

[star_gazer]

Holy crap, how many judges do they have for each event?

There were 21 judges for the Adult Latin and Standard Championships

[sambanada]

That is great!

[JANATHOME]

Question??

I have a friend who's grandkids are competing in Jr's. and competed this year in Utah.
For our USAdance comps there is O2c where we can go to see the judges marks. For the Utah comp is there a similiar database that they can go to?

[star_gazer]

Question??

I have a friend who's grandkids are competing in Jr's. and competed this year in Utah.
For our USAdance comps there is O2c where we can go to see the judges marks. For the Utah comp is there a similiar database that they can go to?

http://byudancesport.com/