View Full Version : What would you tell Beginners?
DanceMentor
07-17-2003, 12:42 AM
With the knowledge you have now about dancing, what would you tell beginners to help them feel at ease as well learn quickly?
I'll start...
1) Don't feel like everyone is watching you. Realize that the other people around you are either good dancers having a good time or beginners who are too busy worrying about their own dancing.
2) The Basics are the most important part. Even advanced students spend lots of time working on the basics. Once you get comfortable with the basics, and it won't take long, you'll find it's really easy to learn new steps.
Vince A
07-17-2003, 10:48 AM
With the knowledge you have now about dancing, what would you tell beginners to help them feel at ease as well learn quickly?
Answers . . .
3) Don't get frustrated - this will cause you to want to quit. Hang in there . . . it will get easier . . . you will improve!
4) Remember . . . everyone on this floor started just like you. We've all been there.
5) Go back to the basics again!
Vince A
07-17-2003, 04:45 PM
I forgot an important one . . .
6) Never, never, never anticipate what the leader will lead!
youngsta
08-29-2003, 01:04 PM
1)Take what you're learning during instruction into a social dancing environment as soon as you can.
2)Dance with as many different people as possible! I know as a lead adapting to different followers is one of the biggest hurdles to get over.
3)Don't get ate up about the names of patterns! I can't stand to hear someone say 'at xxxxx place they said it's a copa' --so what! Just listen and learn the move. Even if you've seen it before you may learn something new to help.
pygmalion
08-29-2003, 07:38 PM
What I usually tell new guys is
1.You can do this.
2. Just look into my eyes.
3. Okay. So all you know is a box step? Okay, let's do that boxstep with attitude!
You'd be surprised how many guys walk away from that pep talk feeling great about themselves.
Incidentally, I usually backlead something a little more complicated, like a walkaround turn, during the dance. I always warn them first, and "show" them how to lead it.
MissAlyssa
08-30-2003, 12:16 AM
I forgot an important one . . .
6) Never, never, never anticipate what the leader will lead!
I STILL DO THAT!!! It's a very very very hard habit to break!
brujo
10-28-2003, 06:10 PM
1. Smile
2. Eye contact is OK
3. Have a sense of humor
4. It's ok to mess up
5. breathe
6. Have FUN!
Amazing how some pros never learned 1-4...
Danish Guy
10-28-2003, 06:41 PM
3. Okay. So all you know is a box step? Okay, let's do that boxstep with attitude!
Incidentally, I usually backlead something a little more complicated, like a walkaround turn, during the dance. I always warn them first, and "show" them how to lead it.
WOW :shock: 8) :D
Way to go.
Sagitta
10-28-2003, 06:52 PM
1. Get out on the social dance floor, as soon as you can.
2. Don't be concerned about not knowing much, and don't get intimidated about asking the good dancers out there for a dance. We all started not knowing anything, and most people don't mind dancing a dance with you.
(After my lindy class there is a beginning swing class. The instructors play music the 20 or so minutes between the two classes. I usually stay and have some fun with the people from my lindy class, doing jump swing as that's the music played. When I ask the followers from the beginning class for a dance they say things like, "I don't know much. You're too good for me." What's up with that?!!)
3. Enjoy yourself. Have FUN. No one wants to dance with a person who does not look as if they are having a good time.
will35
10-28-2003, 08:36 PM
To:
1) Practice, practice, practice.
2) Listen to the music as much as possible, even when not dancing.
3) Stand still for a few seconds and listen to the music before taking a step every time you dance. Your partner will not think you're crazy. She'll love it. Even close your eyes a second or two if it helps you hear what the musicians are doing. This advice is obviously only for men. Women can and often do close their eyes throughout the entire dance.
4) Watch other people dance. Emulate, but don't bother to copy.
5) Find a job in Buenos Aires or across the river in Montevideo. Stay up all night every night and dance.
6) Drink lots of coffee.
7) Never, ever, ever, ever hurry your Tango. Take it slow.
8) Forget steps; just dance.
SwinginBoo
10-29-2003, 11:08 AM
6) Drink lots of coffee.
Not good for dehydration :lol: , but good for late night dancing or IRU posting. :wink:
will35
10-30-2003, 03:13 PM
Yeah, maybe mate amargo would be better than coffee.
Sarah
10-30-2003, 06:15 PM
Yeah, maybe mate amargo would be better than coffee.
What's mate amargo?
Cheers
Sarah
will35
10-30-2003, 06:22 PM
It's a very good drink. Maybe it is good enough for its own thread somewhere in Dancers Anon. Unfortunately, I am a bit busy now, and it has very little to do with dance, just like my silly remark about lots of coffee.
pygmalion
10-30-2003, 06:23 PM
O come on and tell us, will. Or else I may be forced to google. :shock: 8) :lol:
will35
10-30-2003, 06:32 PM
Well, maybe it is one of those quality things Dance Mentor was asking for. It takes time to put together something. It is not about dance, but it is something I know a thing or two about. I'll get around to it later.
Sarah
10-30-2003, 06:42 PM
Well, maybe it is one of those quality things Dance Mentor was asking for. It takes time to put together something. It is not about dance, but it is something I know a thing or two about. I'll get around to it later.
Yes please - I like learning new stuff, and food is another favorite topic.
Cheers
Sarah
pygmalion
10-30-2003, 06:46 PM
Hmm. After thinking about this a bit, I wonder if the beginners are the ones who need words of encouragement the most. As a beginner, I was full of enthusiasm. It was months later, when I first realized the enormity of what I'd taken on, that I needed words of wisdom. I needed help to get past that first hurdle.
golddancer
11-27-2003, 09:32 PM
Hmmm. Lots of good advice.
One of the most important things is reinforcement. When starting out (and taking lots of lessons) it is important to take time after the class and review what you learned before you leave for the evening... hence most group classes have parties after the lesson. This reinforcement helps you remember what you learned and if you are stuck you have an opportunity to ask the instructor or a fellow classmate.
Take a notebook to class and write down the steps so you understand them if the instructor does not provide a syllabus.
If you don't have time right after class then one technique is to do the steps in your head or use your "finger dancers" to help prevent the :doh:
pygmalion
11-28-2003, 10:10 AM
finger dancers? That sounds interesting. Could you explain, golddancer? :D
golddancer
12-23-2003, 02:51 AM
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 3:10 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
finger dancers? That sounds interesting. Could you explain, golddancer?
----
Sorry been out with flu. I might have answered this privately but I feel someone else reading the board might be confused too.
There is an solgan from the phone company let your fingers do the walking thru the yellow pages. I applied this to my dancing when I first started... a visual aid to my mental walk thru while I was waiting at a stop light in my car.
The gist of it is to "walk" thru the steps using your index finger and "big" middle finger to be your legs.
E-mail me if this requires more explaination. Happy Holidays! :-)
Dancegal
12-23-2003, 03:05 AM
Practice, practice, practice AND PRACTICE SOME MORE - the sooner after the lesson, the better. Have lots and lots of reinforcement on what you've learned. Once the dance basics becomes second nature, you can afford not to dance as much (not that you'd want to do THAT) and will still remember it if you are unable to dance for a while.
SDsalsaguy
12-23-2003, 03:59 AM
Practice, practice, practice AND PRACTICE SOME MORE - the sooner after the lesson, the better. Have lots and lots of reinforcement on what you've learned. Once the dance basics becomes second nature, you can afford not to dance as much (not that you'd want to do THAT) and will still remember it if you are unable to dance for a while.
Elaborating on this, practice as OFTEN as you can. Say you only have five hours you can devote to practicing in a week, you are FAR better off practicing for an hour/day, five days/week then once/wek for five hours! The more "regular" it becomes for you to dance, the more nartural your dancing will become.
pygmalion
12-23-2003, 04:29 AM
There is an solgan from the phone company let your fingers do the walking thru the yellow pages. I applied this to my dancing when I first started... a visual aid to my mental walk thru while I was waiting at a stop light in my car.
The gist of it is to "walk" thru the steps using your index finger and "big" middle finger to be your legs.
E-mail me if this requires more explaination. Happy Holidays! :-)
That's an interesting concept. Now I have something to do during those long, boring meetings! :lol: :lol:
Thanks. :D
Hope you're feeling better, golddancer. From what I hear, the flu that's going around now is a nasty one. Take it easy. 8)
Swing Kitten
12-23-2003, 04:35 AM
when it comes to finger dancing I find it difficult to do a swingout :( :shrug:
KevinL
12-23-2003, 09:08 AM
1) You can do this. Everyone else started out without knowing how to do it either.
2) Don't worry about it. Everyone else is either already a good dancer and busy enjoying themsleves, or they are new like you are and too busy to worry about what anyone else is doing!
3) Look. I've seen you walk, so I know you can do that. Dancing is just walking funny, so don't stress about it. You can dance, it just doesn't feel comfortable yet.
4) Have fun and smile, dancing is supposed to be fun, not work!
Kevin
HothouseSalsero
12-23-2003, 10:57 AM
Don't look down at your feet while you are dancing.
To add to what others have said about practicing: be creative about practice. I think half the practice that helped me get a turn I was having difficulty with when I started taking privates was done on an elevator at work (when no one else was on it). It think that sort of dispersed practicing is a good complement to more extended practice.
peachexploration
12-23-2003, 11:04 AM
Do a little bit of research. Search on the internet, become a member of websites like Dance Forums :wink:, listen to different types of music that encompasses the dance you're interested in (Samba, Waltz, Salsa), If your dance school has a syllabus, ask questions about it, etc. Everyone has their own reasons for learning any kind of dance. But if you don't have the basic foundation and knowledge of a dance type you're interested in, you will have trouble later. When I first started salsa, all I heard from the leaders was "follow my lead". Unfortunately, I did not know what that was because we (followers) weren't shown how, only yelled at, which was awful. :evil: After doing a bit of research, I learned that there was a science to both parts (lead/follow) and that learning your role was one of the most important things (besides learning the rhythm) when dancing salsa. I had to start over, find a school that focused on this and retrain myself. Had I done the research, I would have been better much sooner.
Sagitta
12-23-2003, 01:15 PM
Hmm. After thinking about this a bit, I wonder if the beginners are the ones who need words of encouragement the most. As a beginner, I was full of enthusiasm. It was months later, when I first realized the enormity of what I'd taken on, that I needed words of wisdom. I needed help to get past that first hurdle.
We all need help when we are faced with what seems an unsurmountable obstacle, especially our first one, as later on we have the expereinec of having overcome hurdles to fall back on!! Perhaps it was easier for you pygmalion as you were a follower. For me as a beginner, I was trying to lead a move while listening to the music, doing the steps....all too much, and on top of that experienced follows talking to you as they are bored. Agghhh!!!
For those who jump right in and then suddenly face a road block down the road, the advice I would give is - using one of the most overused cliches around - KISS (Keep It Simple Silly). Relax, let your body listen to the music, enjoy the menage a trois of you/partner/music. That's what dancing is all about. It's not the fancy moves or the complicated ones or fast ones or....whatever else that you are thinking. A big factor that comes into play is TRUST. For instance:
Don't look down at your feet while you are dancing.
Or my feet either!! So, then you look up, BUT I can see that you are still trying to think the steps, and it is frightening/bothering you as you cannot see what is going down below.
When we say don't look down at the feet we mean so much more. You're looking down at your feet as you are tense and are afraid of what you are doing. You are not putting your TRUST in me. You think that it is your responsibility, and not accepting that it is a shared one...if something does not work out, so what? We move on!! Life is about trying, exploring, and not everything works...dance is life...
When I first started salsa, all I heard from the leaders was "follow my lead". Unfortunately, I did not know what that was because we (followers) weren't shown how, only yelled at, which was awful. :evil:
That is SO true :cry:
Can you recommend any links and /or words of wisdom regarding the science of following :?: :)
HothouseSalsero
12-23-2003, 01:34 PM
This is why I'm not so sure that new followers should wait to take private lessons (if they can afford them). I get the impression that some of the followers I have taken classes with think that following means that the lead gives a signal, and then the follower reacts (independently), which I don't think is really how it works. There needs to be emphasis early on on keeping connection, which aside from the more subtle aspects, really means connection. It means that if you think your partner is going to put your hand behind your back, you don't break contact, or pull him with you. You stay connected with the lead and move according to the lead's time.
I had a few following lessons with my teacher. (I never took enough to become a good follower.) One exercise we did was to be connected only by one finger, and for me to follow her finger with my finger, regardless of where she went. I think that gets the basic connection point across pretty clearly.
(I know there are times in salsa when connection is temporarily broken, in a combination, like if I sort of fling a partner out in front of me, and then resume connection by catching her, so to speak, at a shoulder or hip. But that can be sorted out later.)
pygmalion
12-23-2003, 03:14 PM
This is why I'm not so sure that new followers should wait to take private lessons (if they can afford them). I get the impression that some of the followers I have taken classes with think that following means that the lead gives a signal, and then the follower reacts (independently), which I don't think is really how it works.
I think I understand what you're getting at here, HothouseSalsero. I think what you're describing is what I used to do -- i.e. get a hand or visual signel, then do the school figure. NOT folloiwing at all. And no real connection. And there are good reasons why the followers may be confused, if they're not getting private instruction. There's a very thin line between following and stealing the lead. The follow's is to wait for a lead, but she also has the freedom and responsibility to maintain her own balance, move herself through space and to do her own dancing. She actually has a lot of freedom, but one step over the line and she's usurping the leader's job.
And to do this properly, as you say, the main thing she must do is maintain that connection as much as possible.
I get the impression that some of the followers I have taken classes with think that following means that the lead gives a signal, and then the follower reacts (independently), which I don't think is really how it works.
Oh, my goodnesss, that's exactly what I thought :oops: :oops: :oops:
I'm not sure what exactly "independently" means, I do understand that there should be a coordination. But the bottomline is: I do not get the point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
I'm planning to take privates in a couple of months, now I can't wait!!!!!!
And now it's clear to me that I need to take them with a leader-instructor(before I wasn't sure)....
peachexploration
12-23-2003, 03:48 PM
When I first started salsa, all I heard from the leaders was "follow my lead". Unfortunately, I did not know what that was because we (followers) weren't shown how, only yelled at, which was awful. :evil:
That is SO true :cry:
Can you recommend any links and /or words of wisdom regarding the science of following :?: :)
Hi Vey. I have many links that I use but take a look at this one for a quick demonstration, check out www.danceuniverse.tv and look for this clip:
BTB-Rumba : Variation Rocks & Spiral
Bryan Watson - BTB - Rumba - Variation Rocks & Spiral
Variation: Rocks and Spiral
Now, the clip demonstrates rumba but I've learned some of the same techniques in class for connection/following in Salsa. Some very good information on this site in other areas of ballroom as well. Enjoy!
Pymalion and HothouseSalsero hint that maybe doing private lessons that concentrate solely on following first. I agree, this is probably the best way. Fortunately, I was lucky enough to find an instructor that concentrates on this in her group classes but depending on where you are, that may not be available to you so I recommend doing at least one private or workshop that concentrates on this before you go to a group class. :) Also for more indepth info on dance connection, posture, etc. check out http://www.ballroomdancers.com/Learning_Center/
youngsta
12-23-2003, 04:24 PM
Here's a tip for those beginners just getting comfortable enough with their dancing to enter the next stage. You WILL hit a plataeu...I'll say it again you WILL hit a plataeu. You'll pick up things at an alarmingly fast rate and then all of a sudden...POOF! The next few weeks/months will feel like you aren't picking up anything. You'll start to lose a little of that confidence you worked so hard to build. What you have to do is...
...DANCE!
Keep on dancing through it. No matter how frustrated you're getting you have to dance. When you finally fight through it you'll be 10x better and ready to take your dancing to a new level!
HothouseSalsero
12-23-2003, 04:34 PM
The lead-follow faq for rec.arts.dance has a lot of helpful ideas in it, from what I remember.
Thank you for your advice guys :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:
And, oh boy, am I going to study those links - you probaly won't see me here for a while :lol: :lol: :lol:
Swing Kitten
12-24-2003, 12:24 AM
hello vey,
you needn't go very far to find the information you're looking for.
Try doing a DF search!
for intstance:
enter "connection" in the keywords field. I would also recommend that you enter "d nice" into the author field as a place to start (he generally knows what he's talking about ;) )
and toward the bottom indicate that you want to see posts instead of threads.... you can even indicate how much of each post you would like to see in the search results...
this really is a handy little feature!
Let us know how it goes! There really is a ton of information on this site.
Thanks Swing Kitten :!:
I'll explore DF in more detail, I promise :)
I'll keep you guys posted, or at least let you know when I get new questions :lol: :lol: :lol:
golddancer
12-24-2003, 09:24 PM
Hey Salsaneros and Vey, et al.,
In answer to the debate on beginners and private lessons concerning beginner followers ... beginning salsa dancers can benefit from private lessons it depends on the teacher.
Salsa can be difficult to learn and I know from learning it myself and teaching it.
In any dance but mostly the latin the followers must be able to complete the move in response to the signals from the leaders... hence the term move independantly. An Arthur Murray instructor taught me the importance of balance and follow thru on the part of the lady that makes the dance more enjoyable for both partners. The gentleman should never drag the lady thru the steps. NO NO NO. this is very wearing and painful on the joints for both partners.
I have found in dancing with latin heritage people, in my area from Mexico that in the Cumbia and latin social world that the man will lead a step and then "follow" the woman in response to his lead.... it is a real lead follow combination... It took me a while to get used to it but it is a lot of fun. I learned this in a cumbia class and my instructor, who is from Mexico, and a Social dancer showed me the importance of doing a stop for a beat or two in the music. He explained to me that he would follow me in some instances, like a moving me behind his back. :together: :bouncy:
I hope this is clear, what I am trying to convey.. if not e-mail me.
golddancer, glad to hear from you :)
In answer to the debate on beginners and private lessons concerning beginner followers ... beginning salsa dancers can benefit from private lessons it depends on the teacher.
That's an excellent point :!:
And thanks for explaining about "moving independently".
I'm glad you've mentioned cumbia, I absolutely LOVE IT :bouncy: I do not think, though, that I'm familiar with the concept of leader following the follower: do you mean following her lead or physically moving in the same direction (e.g . during multiple turns)?
golddancer
12-25-2003, 12:43 AM
I'm glad you've mentioned cumbia, I absolutely LOVE IT :bouncy: I do not think, though, that I'm familiar with the concept of leader following the follower: do you mean following her lead or physically moving in the same direction (e.g . during multiple turns)?
Both... In a step where the woman goes behind the guys back he waits till I am and done and then follow me.
There is a turning step where we both travel.
I find Cumbia very interesting ... my ballroom group isn't too familiar with it but it is slowly growing. I haven't gotten a chance to go to class in about 3 months.
Both... In a step where the woman goes behind the guys back he waits till am and done and then follow me
Oh, I think I've got it, thanks. That sounds interesting.
Where I live, cumbia doesn't seem to be popular among urban population, I've never heard it played in downtown clubs etc. ,
it's popular mostly among people who "grew up" with it and, perhaps, people like me, who fell in love with it. It just has, i don't know how to explain it, such an ethnic, folk feeling to it... that I can't resist.
peachexploration
01-23-2004, 06:08 PM
Do a little bit of research. Search on the internet, become a member of websites like Dance Forums :wink:, listen to different types of music that encompasses the dance you're interested in (Samba, Waltz, Salsa), If your dance school has a syllabus, ask questions about it, etc. Everyone has their own reasons for learning any kind of dance. But if you don't have the basic foundation and knowledge of a dance type you're interested in, you will have trouble later. When I first started salsa, all I heard from the leaders was "follow my lead". Unfortunately, I did not know what that was because we (followers) weren't shown how, only yelled at, which was awful. :evil: After doing a bit of research, I learned that there was a science to both parts (lead/follow) and that learning your role was one of the most important things (besides learning the rhythm) when dancing salsa. I had to start over, find a school that focused on this and retrain myself. Had I done the research, I would have been better much sooner.
After thinking about this for awhile, I wanted to add that it might be a good idea to include in your research, the following: If you're thinking about taking group classes, ask the instructor if it is possible that you could just sit and watch the advance class or wait and attend their next social. Why? Well, that's when you see the product of the school and/or the instructor. At that time, you would actually know what you will learn and it will help you choose the right school and whether or not they can help you achieve your goals for dance. Almost like you're doing the interview. Just a suggestion but it works. :)
Another word of advice, learn at least a little bit about as many dances as you can. It is amazing how many things you can transplant from dance to dance and make into your own style.
Tenshi_no_Pocky
07-27-2005, 10:26 PM
If at first you do not succeed, try try again... never give up and most importantly, even if you have a big fear, never quit what your heart is into.
standardgirl
07-28-2005, 08:20 AM
Listen to the music and dance from your heart. There is nothing to fear about, just let your body move freely to the music and have fun.
Always remember the original desire you have and the reasons why you want to dance no matter how fustrated you become. We all started from one place, and we've all been through fustrations at one point or another.
Dance, Smile, and Have Fun! :D
<sounds like something I need to tell myself right now... :wink: >
easy to say, hard to do......
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