When to start with "competitive routines"

[robin]

Watching "strictly come dancing" has made me think about a discussion i've had numerous times with people:

Is it better to "get the basics right" before moving on to "competition" choreography or is it better to stretch yourself and go for some more complicated choreography much sooner, while working on technique at the same time?

I know a lot of people who think one should spend at least 3 or 4 years or so going through bronze/silver/gold in order to have the basic skills to attempt more complicated work. This means that anyone entering an "open" competition should have at least 5 years dancing experience..

On the other hand I also know a lot of people who have danced pretty complicated stuff within months of starting dancing, some going to their first (beginners) competition only 6 weeks after their first dance lesson, often doing intermediate or pre-champ comps within a year...

Carmen for example (as in Bryan and Carmen) won an A-class latin championship (in germany) two years after she started dancing, so it's probably fair to assume that she must have gone on to fancy stuff pretty soon...

So what's the better approach? Is there a general rule or does it depend on the individual? Any opinions?

Robin

[Chris Stratton]

The other path that really must be considered is to go a ahead and dance in the open levels with relatively simple material. There's no rule that says that you have to have a highly complicated routine. In fact, many judges have proven more than willing to mark solid mostly syllabus dancing above sloppy pre-champ routines. Obviously things will get more complicated as someone progresses, but initial open entries need not be a revolutionary difference from what one danced in syllabus just in order to fit in.

[Purr]

The other path that really must be considered is to go a ahead and dance in the open levels with relatively simple material. There's no rule that says that you have to have a highly complicated routine. In fact, many judges have proven more than willing to mark solid mostly syllabus dancing above sloppy pre-champ routines. Obviously things will get more complicated as someone progresses, but initial open entries need not be a revolutionary difference from what one danced in syllabus just in order to fit in.

That's good information to know.

[DancingMommy]

The other path that really must be considered is to go a ahead and dance in the open levels with relatively simple material. There's no rule that says that you have to have a highly complicated routine. In fact, many judges have proven more than willing to mark solid mostly syllabus dancing above sloppy pre-champ routines. Obviously things will get more complicated as someone progresses, but initial open entries need not be a revolutionary difference from what one danced in syllabus just in order to fit in.

True enough. In fact, most open routines consist of extremely clean basics with snazzy variations. Our open routines are Silver+ yet they include a bunch of stuff the pro's use.

the only thing you need to watch out for is sacrificing clean technique for lots of "stuff". If you are going to compete in open, you had better make sure that the basics you DO do are PERFECT (or at least as perfect as you can make them). If you are doing mainly basics in an open division, the judges are going to be watching to see they are done correctly.

[dancin_feet]

Doing more complicated moves can help with basic technique, if technique is taught with them and not just the moves themselves. I guess it depends on the ability level of the person. If they can cope with being thrown in the deep end, then why not. Others will need a slower progression and build on step / technique to get it right.

If you go too fast you can develop bad habits that are harder to break than learning correctly in the first place.

[Chris Stratton]

Doing more complicated moves can help with basic technique, if technique is taught with them and not just the moves themselves. I guess it depends on the ability level of the person. If they can cope with being thrown in the deep end, then why not. Others will need a slower progression and build on step / technique to get it right.


While one can learn technique in the context of anything they can marginally dance, it's simply not true that anyone gets a free pass for the basics. People who appear to absorb material and the associated technique quickly enough to survive immersion do fine for a while - until they run into serious competition. Then they stall, until they - just like everyone else - put effort into understanding the real technique of the most basic actions. You can pay all the attention you want to technique in a complicated figure (and you will probably learn some important universal concepts that way) but it's not going to equal the level of mastery that comes from regularly spending lessons with a world-title coach looking at your natural turn or rumba walk.

That said, nobody should try to get everything right from the start - it's a human necessity to get out there and dance - so everyone is going to have to leave a lot of fundamental concepts for later work. But that's not an excuse to skip over too many of the basics the first time around either.

[dancin_feet]

I agree with what you are saying Chris. I guess the only thing I have to compare it to (not competing myself) is when I started my rumba showcase routine. I had only just started on doing proper cuban motion technique in my private lessons and through the routine, my rumba has now progressed from my worst latin dance to my second best (swing being my best but only because of all the jive I did when I was younger!).

I do agree that throwing an absolute beginner into competitive routines would probably be a big mistake. There is no substitute for a properly executed basic!

[SDsalsaguy]

Yeah, but in that case I'd think that all the extra *time & effort* that went into your performance prep are probably what were the more transformative elements, not the more advanced material in and of itself d_f. Would you agree?

[robin]

Yeah, but in that case I'd think that all the extra *time & effort* that went into your performance prep are probably what were the more transformative elements, not the more advanced material in and of itself d_f. Would you agree?

But it might have been the more advanced material that kept him motivated or made him realise that lots of hard work is required...

That I think is why i enjoy being confronted with steps that are difficult for my current level of ability. It makes it very obvious where i'm lacking in basic actions, tone, balance, ... as a result i work much harder, particularly on the basics.

I don't think that doing difficult stuff magically teaches basics much faster, but I don't think it's any slower either, you just have to put in the hours. And seeing that it made me put in 10 hours/week rather than the 1 or 2 I would have done before when I could "do" all the steps i was supposed to, I think it accelerated my learning greatly...

But I guess people are motivated by different things and a more methodical person might be able put in a similar amount of time while going slowly through the medals...

Robin

[dancin_feet]

Yeah, but in that case I'd think that all the extra *time & effort* that went into your performance prep are probably what were the more transformative elements, not the more advanced material in and of itself d_f. Would you agree?

I would say it was a bit of both SD. The extra time concentrating on rumba every week certainly did help, but applying technique that I had only just started to learn to the more advanced figures made it easier to apply to the basic. Getting full cuban motion working properly in a wrap around movement, and then doing a basic it was like, wow this is so easy! compared to having to think about it before I started doing the advanced figures.