What's the difference between NY and LA Salsa?

[Sakura]

Hey guys! As a new, fledgling Salsera, I was just wondering:

What's the difference between NY and LA Salsa? Are there any other styles of this great dance? What's the most commonly danced style?

I'm on a quest to learn all that I can about this dance so that I can dance it well (not to mention that I'd rather not be caught on the dance floor some night trying to do a *completely* different style of Salsa than someone else!)! Thanks guys!

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[peachexploration]

Hi SK. Here's a link to get you started. :D
http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1159

[SDsalsaguy]

Here's a link regarding Cuban style :arrow: http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=3085

And, here's another, extensive thread on different salsa styles :arrow: http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2555

[salsachinita]

My experience/exposure to NY style is very limited, so please forgive the ignorance :oops: .

Basically, apart from the timing (on1 vs. on2) difference, and a few characteristic 'signature type' styling made famous by various instructors,

.........is there any other REAL obvious differences........?

Both are danced in slot formation, both fast & flashy, both have shines...

:?: :?: :?:

[jamaicanspice]

enquiring minds want to know...I too would like to know what the obvious difference is :roll:

[DiAnAoN1]

The biggest difference is that LA is danced on1 NY is danced on2. A couple dancing NY style try to dance in straght line (danced on slots) while LA is all over the place, LA is flashier (aerials, dips, neckdrops), and I think there are more shines in NY style. Personally now that I recognize the 2 I find that NY is a smoother type and it's my preferred style while LA is very entertaining to watch but sometimes I fear for my life when I'm dancing it :lol:

[SDsalsaguy]

The second link I provided above really does cover a lot of this... :?

[ketchup]

LA is flashier (aerials, dips, neckdrops),
sometimes I fear for my life when I'm dancing it :lol:

:D I have a question for LA style dancers about this. If a guy does not even give you one dip (or trick) while dancing, do you feel bored? What about your observation on the majority of LA style dancers on this regard? Do you think most of the female LA style dancers would feel bored if a guy didn't give you any dip, trick etc. while dancing?

I have had only 3 or 4 occasions to dance with LA style female dancers, and in every occasion I suffered being back-led into dips by them (meaning they led themselves into dips, and I was like :shock: ..wait! I don't know how to do this!!!!) ... I got an impression that they wanted me to do those stuff....

I don't have anything against dips, neckdrops, tricks, etc., but since I am basically a very lazy dancer (I don't even spin myself :oops: ), I don't do any of these (have never thought about learning them, either). But I would love to dance with LA people if I ever get a chance again in the future. But I am a bit worried... because of my past experiences.

I think a similar question was asked before in another thread regarding spins and NY style dancers, and I remember Boriken answered that there ARE dancers who can enjoy dancing without giving or being given multiple spins. The same applies to tricks and LA style dancers? :?:

[MacMoto]

What's the difference between NY and LA Salsa?
Basically, apart from the timing (on1 vs. on2) difference, and a few characteristic 'signature type' styling made famous by various instructors,

.........is there any other REAL obvious differences........?
Funny this topic has come up, because I was going to ask the same question!

I danced in Glasgow (the Cuban style capital of Scotland) last weekend, and I was intrigued by dancers there talking about Cuban style (their style) as opposed to NY style, rather than LA style. For example, they ask: "do you dance Cuban or New York?", not "Cuban or LA?" This is despite the fact that there is no on2 teaching in Glasgow. In Edinburgh, where there are more slot-style dancers, they think of their style as LA, not NY. As far as I can make out, London on1 slot dancers also seem to consider their style LA rather than NY (except those who believe there is a distinctive "London style", which are not that many) -- correct me if I'm wrong.

So, like Salsachinita, I'm now wondering:

Is there actually a "NY on1 style"?
If there is, what is the difference between NY on1 and LA on1?
Is there an "LA on2 style", and is it different from NY on2?


Club Salsa's style definitions (see http://www.clubsalsa.com.au/whatissalsa/danceinfo/index.shtml ) basically say:

LA style - timing more relaxed than NY, sexy and flamboyant, with lots of dips, spins and drops.
NY style - shows off the woman, turn patterns simpler than LA, spins, shines, on2 timing.

Agree?

[peachexploration]

What about the links given earlier in the thread? Did they help at all? :)

[jamaicanspice]

What about the links given earlier in the thread? Did they help at all? :)

yes they did actually....I learnt alot!! I realise now that even though we were taught on1 here (NY salsa), we tend to incorporate the on1 steps with the LA salsa style of dancing (as in fast and flashy) but then we also have a unique Jamaican flavor to ou dance as well. hmmmmmmmm.....this has been very informative.

[MacMoto]

I'm still confused... :?

[borikensalsero]

I'm still confused... :?

Easiest way to look at it is... NY Style is danced on2, meaning we break on2, and LA Style is danced on1, meaning they break on1. Besides that there is a "difference" in stepping pattern, not in L,R,L,R, but the musical beats that are stepped on.

LA is characterized by tricks/flips/dips.

NY style is characterized by shines and too many spins.

Besides that, same thing.

[salsachinita]

Besides that, same thing.

Amen, Boriken :notworth: !

I've been waiting for a written statement like this from an expert like yourself :wink: !

*I thought as much 8) *

[tj]

More characteristics of LA Style:

Catering to the crowd. Trying to get people to watch the two of you.

Lots and lots of spins. I will admit that I prefer a dance will a lot of spinning to one where I'm dancing a lot of cumbia.

Often, smoothness and connection is secondary to flash and sex appeal.

But it is up to the individuals as to what they want to focus on. So just because it may be typical, it will vary from dancer to dancer.

[jamaicanspice]

I concur with you there salsachinita. That just cleared things up all right :lol: good work borinkensalsero

[Sagitta]

And all I want is connection. :)

[Sakura]

And all I want is connection. :)

=^__^= That's a good sentiment!


:shock: :shock: WOW! Thanks so much guys! I can't wait to go get to those links!

Hmm, so from reading this, I *think* that I'm doing LA style Salsa.

(To be *quite* sure though, and I'm very sure that I already know the answer to this, but double-checking never hurt anyone, the "breaking on 1" (or on 2), just means the count you start on, right? So, in LA, one starts on count 1, and in NY, one starts on count 2, correct? Just making sure! :D )

And look, my topic has made it to page 2! *laughs* Of course, that's a dead cue to have my topic wither away and die now... =O_o=... Hmm.

Anyway, wow again, and thanks so much! To the links!

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[Sagitta]

Nope. I often dance on3, but start dancing on beat 1. Then there are two types of on2 dancing: one is power on2 where you start on beat 2, and ET on2, where you start on beat 1. on1, on2, on3, I believe refers to when you "brake" to change direction.

[Sakura]

=O_o= Facinating! I'll have to ask Jonah next time I have a lesson!

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[youngsta]

Hmmm, this beast always seems to come back. Other than the timing differences, your perception of LA and NY salsa are gonna depend on what dancers you choose to observe. If you go to Steven's and hang out around the 'dracula' circles you'll see that flashy, trick filled, LA style. If you watch the majority of the normal dancers it won't look a lot different than what you'd see in NY.

[dancin_feet]

Haven't seen NY style myself, but saw LA style in a presentation that one of the instructors did a few weeks ago. Flashy is an understatement! I was puffing just watching! :shock:

[Sakura]

:? Hmm, I guess another big question that comes up here then is: are the *steps* the same between these two styles?? (stupid question, I know...) I see the flashy vs. smooth now, but, I mean, do the basics vary, the various steps, etc...?

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[DiAnAoN1]

:? Hmm, I guess another big question that comes up here then is: are the *steps* the same between these two styles?? (stupid question, I know...) I see the flashy vs. smooth now, but, I mean, do the basics vary, the various steps, etc...?

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

No regardless of the style or if your dancing on1 and on2 the basic step is the same. I've also taken classes on both NY and LA style where they showed us the same turn combination so the styles arent that different.

[Sakura]

:? Hmm, I guess another big question that comes up here then is: are the *steps* the same between these two styles?? (stupid question, I know...) I see the flashy vs. smooth now, but, I mean, do the basics vary, the various steps, etc...?

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

No regardless of the style or if your dancing on1 and on2 the basic step is the same. I've also taken classes on both NY and LA style where they showed us the same turn combination so the styles arent that different.

Diana, you're my hero!!!!!! *hugs* :banana: :banana: :banana:

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[MacMoto]

Besides that, same thing.

Amen, Boriken :notworth: !

I've been waiting for a written statement like this from an expert like yourself :wink: !

Same here -- thanks!

[SDsalsaguy]

...regardless of the style or if your dancing on1 and on2 the basic step is the same.
True if you're comparing LA/on1 with Power2/Palladium2... but the steps *are* different for NY2/ET2... :?

[salsera_alemana]

SD,

...regardless of the style or if your dancing on1 and on2 the basic step is the same.
True if you're comparing LA/on1 with Power2/Palladium2... but the steps *are* different for NY2/ET2... :?

Now, what is ET2?

You all talk about NY, LA, Cuban style? What about Puerto Rican style?

What is the difference between NY and PR style? Is there any difference at all now?

[MacMoto]

Now, what is ET2?
On2 Eddie Torres style?

[SDsalsaguy]

salsera_alemana... ET = Eddie Torres

I guess one of the points your question raises is what, exactly, we mean by a "style." Almost every country and region has its own style... but when we're talking about NY/LA/Cuban we're talking about major "schools" of salsa. When I travel to Europe for instance, the basic structure will fall into one of these. I should say, however, that I have found that in some places in Europe NY & LA do not get differentiated but, rather, are counted as a cross-body "style" (vs. Cuban).

I don't have enough familiarity with PR dancing to be able to give you a good comparison, but, from my experiences big three seem to be the umbrella categories.

[Sabor]

yeah.. it could get really confusing.. so i for one i just look at the classification very simply ie. interms of timing, either as

Salsa on 1 = 123 567 .. breaking on 1 and 5

Mambo or Salsa on 2 = 234 678.. breaking on 2 and 6

Cuban = street salsa.. ie.. salsa in its free-est form.. most playful..it obeys la clave and changes according to tiempo

The rest of the differentiations dont hold too firm too long nowadays as styles have many ways of mixing up .. its just fusion and alot of it is promoted by people in the business to make business.. to achieve some sort of uniqueness and originality that, like it or not, fades away in time because others will come .. take it and mix it up in a new way etc.. etc.. thus is the nature of art and its power to evolve, fuse and overlap.. in some way.. its globalization, u know..

so.. other than timing, it doesnt really matter which foot u start with.. wether u dance in a slot or circular.. wether u shine more or less.. wether u show off the woman more or less.. etc.. that is all really quite irrelevent to me.. things that work themselves out naturally once u start dancing.. no biggy :wink:

[SDsalsaguy]

I agree with you Sabor, but I do find some basic mechanical differences in the connection between the cross-body and Cuban styles. Just an observation.

[Sabor]

I agree with you Sabor, but I do find some basic mechanical differences in the sonnection between the croos-body and Cuban styles. Just an observation.

"sonnection" "croos" !?! :doh:

:lol: :lol: :wink:

[Sagitta]

Yup, I agreed with SD. Cuban tends to be momentum based...

[Sabor]

yep guys .. i agree with u both.. yet these are all things that can be mixed together .. eg. i can dance cuban style interms of body motion/ styling/ direction yet still be breaking on 1 or on 2 or on clave/contra.. know what i mean.. u just adjust with your partner and go at it.. but the only thing that will stay constant no matter what is the timing of your step/break.. accordingly what i said in previous post..

plus this is just a starting point for beginners to view the dance.. of course as u advance u relatively know more and understand more .. so i would suggest that phase to be dependent on each dancers perception and based on their own experience rather than giving them the whole 9 yards in words and explanation that they yet remain to experience ultimately getting them confused or more hyped .. when the issue is not that much of a big deal from a birds eye view.. that is of course only my opinion :D

[SDsalsaguy]

I agree with you Sabor, but I do find some basic mechanical differences in the sonnection between the croos-body and Cuban styles. Just an observation.

"sonnection" "croos" !?! :doh:

:lol: :lol: :wink:
:oops: :oops: :oops:

That'll teach me to go without sleep for too long!

[Actually, on second thought, it probably won't! :oops: :oops: :oops: ]


[Random fact: this = DF post #56,500]

[Sakura]

:D :D And yet again, Sabor, you manage to reduce everything down to that it's just Dance, no matter what you're doing!

Someday, you're gonna open up a school of dance, and then we'll start talking about Sabor Salsa! =^_~= I look forward to it!

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[tj]

I love the sentiment of what you're saying, Sabor. It truly captures the important essence of what makes dancing special.

But I gotta say that I agree with the other two, in that when you and your partner dance different styles, it's hard to find a good dance connection with each other. What that has become for me, is to have a little familiarity with each of the styles so that I can adjust my dancing to my partner in addition to the particular song.

[MacMoto]

I dance in an two-centre salsa scene -- Glasgow with its strong Cuban style traditions and more slot-oriented Edinburgh -- and can say that followers exposed to both styles can adapt to the different mechanics of the two styles without too much difficulty. I have experienced dancing with good connection with both Cuban style and LA style dancers. And there are leaders who have taken both classes and mix the two styles. Makes for an interesting dance experience (though it doesn't help my problem of getting my CBLs and Dile Que Nos mixed up :oops:) -- so I'm with Sabor on this one.

[salsachinita]

when you and your partner dance different styles, it's hard to find a good dance connection with each other. What that has become for me, is to have a little familiarity with each of the styles so that I can adjust my dancing to my partner in addition to the particular song.

Same here.

For years I've been able to show up at a salsa club & just dance. Until I realised that people on my dance list got fewer as the "newer" (read: development/evolvement) styles started to make appearances at the clubs & people I grew up dancing with started to disappear :cry: .....

It was a wake up call for me to evolve & adapt. It was almost as though the language changed :shock: ......in order to 'communicate' (via dancing) effectively with others you have to learn the accent/dialect, even if we are still talking about the same language.

This is how I view different schools/styles of salsa. Same language, different accent/dialect (hey, a lot like Spanish :wink: !).

On that thought, I'm off to 'communicate' some more 8) .........!

[Sakura]

This is how I view different schools/styles of salsa. Same language, different accent/dialect (hey, a lot like Spanish :wink: !).

On that thought, I'm off to 'communicate' some more 8) .........!

That's actually a really cool way of looking at it, SC! (More so because I LOVE language. =^__^=)

Have fun, study hard! :wink:

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[Sabor]

I love the sentiment of what you're saying, Sabor. It truly captures the important essence of what makes dancing special.

But I gotta say that I agree with the other two, in that when you and your partner dance different styles, it's hard to find a good dance connection with each other. What that has become for me, is to have a little familiarity with each of the styles so that I can adjust my dancing to my partner in addition to the particular song.

i'm not disagreeing tj.. i'm just looking at it from a beginners perspective after knowing what i know now.. hence my 2nd post:

plus this is just a starting point for beginners to view the dance.. of course as u advance u relatively know more and understand more .. so i would suggest that phase to be dependent on each dancers perception and based on their own experience rather than giving them the whole 9 yards in words and explanation that they yet remain to experience ultimately getting them confused or more hyped .. when the issue is not that much of a big deal from a birds eye view.. that is of course only my opinion

my point is simply not to overcrowd them trying to explain it in detail from the beginning but to give them the benefit of their own experience and phase development.. after a certain point they hopefully will experience the different styles and adjust to it almost immediately and naturally.. but it has to take its time .. phase after phase.. thats all.. and to try to explain to them the mechanical differences through words when they are relatively still starting is .. well, putting myself in their shoes.. would indeed be a confusing ordeal. Hence.. the major difference- at this stage is timing - and this is what they start with first.. timing and music.. the musicality of the dance is in my view the highest priority .. to guide them to their natural rythme vs. salsa.. then comes the rest as second priority, etc..

[MacMoto]

Besides that, same thing.

Amen, Boriken :notworth: !

I've been waiting for a written statement like this from an expert like yourself :wink: !

Same here -- thanks!

And just when I thought the matter was settled, my teacher does a small demonstration in the class -- comparing NY style vs. LA!

He taught a move, which he said was a NY mambo move (translated to on1), and proceeded to do exactly the same move in LA style, and they looked different! In terms of the move's sequence, they were exactly the same. However, when done as an LA style move, it looks bigger -- the follower is thrown further away, so the couple is at an arm's length in the slot. It makes the move look more dynamic, sharper (since you need to travel more in the same number of count) and, as a result, flashier. In the NY mambo version of the move, the leader stays very close to the follower, making the whole move look smoother and more compact.

I wonder if this is a general difference between the NY and LA styles?

[borikensalsero]

Besides that, same thing.

Amen, Boriken :notworth: !

I've been waiting for a written statement like this from an expert like yourself :wink: !

Same here -- thanks!

And just when I thought the matter was settled, my teacher does a small demonstration in the class -- comparing NY style vs. LA!

He taught a move, which he said was a NY mambo move (translated to on1), and proceeded to do exactly the same move in LA style, and they looked different! In terms of the move's sequence, they were exactly the same. However, when done as an LA style move, it looks bigger -- the follower is thrown further away, so the couple is at an arm's length in the slot. It makes the move look more dynamic, sharper (since you need to travel more in the same number of count) and, as a result, flashier. In the NY mambo version of the move, the leader stays very close to the follower, making the whole move look smoother and more compact.

I wonder if this is a general difference between the NY and LA styles?

When the floor is packed the use of slot, and the philosphy of "dance on 2 tiles" is used a great deal. But if the floor is pretty spaced out we tend to open up the dance. There are a few dancers who just don't like to open up the dance, even if the floor is empty, but aside from that, very many people like to use the floor and open the dance. "Performance-like"

It is however true that NY Style uses a "tighter" feel of dancing, and doesn't really call to be all over the place opening up "too" much.

Which might just be what you saw...

[KiwiMambo]

And just when I thought the matter was settled, my teacher does a small demonstration in the class -- comparing NY style vs. LA!

He taught a move, which he said was a NY mambo move (translated to on1), and proceeded to do exactly the same move in LA style, and they looked different! In terms of the move's sequence, they were exactly the same. However, when done as an LA style move, it looks bigger -- the follower is thrown further away, so the couple is at an arm's length in the slot. It makes the move look more dynamic, sharper (since you need to travel more in the same number of count) and, as a result, flashier. In the NY mambo version of the move, the leader stays very close to the follower, making the whole move look smoother and more compact.

I wonder if this is a general difference between the NY and LA styles?

That's the first noticeable differences between NY and LA.

NY is lighter (no jerking the follow around), smoother and more compact (small steps). Because of this you can pull off more complex turn patterns in NY. For example a double free spin followed by a 180 pickup (Travelling Inside Turn or Rotating CBL) followed by a double CBL inside turn followed by another 180 is far easier to pull off when dancing small than big. Small steps means you have more time to do more complex things or style.

NY is On2. LA is On1. On2 gives you that extra beat to style and play with the music because On2 you are spinning the girl on counts 2&3 where as On1 your are spinning her on 5&6&7. This is also why you see more of the whip whip pause effect in NY. This gives it that smoother look and why NY style looks slower.

I dance light, smooth and compact when On1 or On2. I cringe when I see leads dance big, tossing and jerking the follow around. Gentlemen, you have to treat the follows like ladies not like a rag doll.

[Sagitta]

I like that too. Dance compact, dance smooth, dance light. That's my prefered style. :)

[KiwiMambo]

You are seeing more and more of this light, smooth and compact in LA now. New Yorkers are influencing the west coast! The best example of this is Al & Edie. Take a look at their first series of videos. Then take a look at their new Millenium style videos which were made after they spent some time studying in New York. The first set is very LAish. The Millenium style is more New Yorkish with Hip Hop and Poppin styling thrown in. In LA we also have former New York instructors such as Seaon and Bernard Martinez and we are seeing their influence in their students.

[Sabor]

the difference between LA and NY salsa?

well, one is in LA and the other is in NY .. DUH!







HAAAAA!

[MacMoto]

:doh:

We really do need a raised eyebrow emoticon...

[Sabor]

http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/spezial/Fool/sla.gif

[SDsalsaguy]

NY is lighter (no jerking the follow around), smoother and more compact (small steps).
Umm, these are qualities of dancers, not of styles. LA style does not, for instance, require "jerking the follow around." While it is true that LA and LA style seem to give rise to more than their share of flash & trash dancers and dancing it is not the style, itself, that mandates this.

[Sakura]

:doh:

We really do need a raised eyebrow emoticon...

:lol: :lol: I second the motion! (=O_o= <-- Closest thing I've got.)

SK :kitty: