A Sacada to die for!

[Mario7]

In this video, Eduardo Masci does two exquisite sacadas that I would sell my soul for...:bandit: They are the same sacada done twice in a row at 50 thru 56 seconds into the video... how the heck does he do it? I tried it once in practice and felt astonished...what's the trick?? Does he stop short with the step of his right foot in order to have room for the sacada or is it becuase he keeps her moving back somehow (while keeping the embrace!)?? Or is it her step that makes it possible? Does he turn her while doing it?...there is something happening there that does not meet the eye...any help in this and I will be indebted for life if I can get it. I've been looking at this for almost three whole months and cannot figure it out...even when trying to dance it alone.:(:(





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[borisvian13]

In this video, Eduardo Masci does two exquisite sacadas that I would sell my soul for...:bandit: They are the same sacada done twice in a row at 50 thru 56 seconds into the video... how the heck does he do it? I tried it once in practice and felt astonished...what's the trick?? Does he stop short with the step of his right foot in order to have room for the sacada or is it becuase he keeps her moving back somehow (while keeping the embrace!)?? Or is it her step that makes it possible? Does he turn her while doing it?...there is something happening there that does not meet the eye...any help in this and I will be indebted for life if I can get it. I've been looking at this for almost three whole months and cannot figure it out...even when trying to dance it alone.:(:(

Well, if you're asking what it is structurally, it's a open step against open step sacada - perhaps the simplest one possible. The leader makes his open step into the follower's place, at the same time the follower makes her open step. Then leader leads the follower's back cross step. The "displacement of legs", as I hope we all know, is an illusion.

I'm not saying it's an easy thing though, it certainly requires a lot practice and feeling about where exactly your follower's legs are at any moment.

[spectator]

i thought sacadas had been put in the evil "nuevo" pile.

I can't keep track.

[Me]

i thought sacadas had been put in the evil "nuevo" pile.

I can't keep track.


*snorts!*

[Me]

In this video, Eduardo Masci does two exquisite sacadas that I would sell my soul for...:bandit: They are the same sacada done twice in a row at 50 thru 56 seconds into the video... how the heck does he do it? I tried it once in practice and felt astonished...what's the trick?? Does he stop short with the step of his right foot in order to have room for the sacada or is it becuase he keeps her moving back somehow (while keeping the embrace!)?? Or is it her step that makes it possible? Does he turn her while doing it?...there is something happening there that does not meet the eye...any help in this and I will be indebted for life if I can get it. I've been looking at this for almost three whole months and cannot figure it out...even when trying to dance it alone.:(:(





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I'm honestly not sure how to write about how to execute sacada without it coming out all weird (it would be so much easier in person), but I can try to give it a go. I guess for this particular sacada, while in "crossed feet" system he sends her to cross, which allows him to cross behind his right foot, keeping his left side open, and he turns away from her (he turns counter clockwise), causing the lady to have to "catch up" to him (creating molinete). If you freeze it at about .51 seconds, you can see where he places his foot when he takes his next step. This sacada is largely an illusion, because the lady is "already going there". (She has stepped side, and is naturally going to step back next.) The lead can create this ronde of the lady's leg by giving the slightest little bump or nudge, using his leg muscles... it is often unseen by a person watching the couple dancing. (I'm not sure how to write about it, here, to be honest.) He can also step in and no nudge at all, she can keep going, undisturbed. I would like to add that the key is for the lead to sense where the lady's weight is. If she is planted on both feet, or if she has not had time to arrive on her back foot, he can knock her over.

[dchester]

I thought Me gave a good explanation. To really be able to explain why you are having trouble with it, we'd have to see you doing it, and then I'm sure it would be easy to fix.

Basically while in cross system he walks her to the cross. The "trick" is that while she goes too the cross, he takes sort of an enrosque step (or a back cross?). In any case, this step that he takes (while she is crossing) does a few things. It keeps them in cross system, and it makes him rotate slightly which starts the lead for her turn (more of a pivot really). This creates the opening for his sacada which is more of a forward step than a side step, IMO. He also rotates after the sacada, which helps the followers pivot. They come out still in cross system, which enables him to lead her to the cross again, where he repeats the sacada. This time though he doesn't pivot much, and when he comes out, he has her do a back ocho. From there he has her do a turn in the opposite direction (and does a different sacada while in the turn).

[Mario7]

Wow, you all have given me a lot to think about...it is as complicated as I thought...oh well. I appreciate everyone who took the time to write out an explanation. Really, I appreciate it so much. Now what? How should I think of this, how to approach doing it? Am I just dense?:cry::cry::cry:

[Me]

Wow, you all have given me a lot to think about...it is as complicated as I thought...oh well. I appreciate everyone who took the time to write out an explanation. Really, I appreciate it so much. Now what? How should I think of this, how to approach doing it? Am I just dense?:cry::cry::cry:


Honestly? It sounds a lot more complicated when you try to write it. If you could have it shown to you in person, you would say, "Oh, that's all? Geez. That's simple walking!" Wish I could show you. :(

[Angel HI]

Wow, you all have given me a lot to think about...it is as complicated as I thought...oh well. I appreciate everyone who took the time to write out an explanation. Really, I appreciate it so much. Now what? How should I think of this, how to approach doing it? Am I just dense?:cry::cry::cry:
Me's discription is a good one. These are merely illusions... both of them. At the risk of sounding like an... well, you know, if you are having that much trouble with it, my suggestion would be to work on bettering your balance, centers, steps, and embrace in the walks/giros. After this, as she mentioned, learn well what the lady is doing. Then, and only then, are you well versed to do these sacadas regardless of their simplicity.

[Mario7]

Honestly? It sounds a lot more complicated when you try to write it. If you could have it shown to you in person, you would say, "Oh, that's all? Geez. That's simple walking!" Wish I could show you. :(
This is very kind, I appreciate it!.. OK, I was just now thinking about this while lying in bed....few distractions! THE confusing element in this figure is the Cruzada. Actually, it came to me today as I was dancing alone (no practice session, today), I was walking (pretending) outside in parallel and I spontaneously hooked my left foot behind my right..this reminded me of the Masci Sacada (above) that has me stumped...there was something very much in common when I took the second forward right step in a row. Bingo! Perhaps, I should look at this as taking two consequetive right steps forward...period! ..and Forgedabout the Cross (for now)!:doh: OK..this Sacada is in crossed feet not parallel but really the woman is taking two consequetive right steps backwards if we simply ignore the cruzada ..just treat the cross as something that happens along the way while we are doing the two steps ..step, step, Sacada! ...OK, I will try a run-thru tommorow with my practice partner..in open embrace so that we don't break a leg trying it... wish me luck. :peace:
PS- If we can do one, doing two in a row should be a no brainer with my intervening left forward step in between them. I can't wait!

[bordertangoman]

here's a simpler concept; she's moving and you are stepping into the space she's leaving.

[Ampster]

In this video, Eduardo Masci does two exquisite sacadas that I would sell my soul for...:bandit: They are the same sacada done twice in a row at 50 thru 56 seconds into the video... how the heck does he do it? I tried it once in practice and felt astonished...what's the trick?? Does he stop short with the step of his right foot in order to have room for the sacada or is it becuase he keeps her moving back somehow (while keeping the embrace!)?? Or is it her step that makes it possible? Does he turn her while doing it?...there is something happening there that does not meet the eye...any help in this and I will be indebted for life if I can get it. I've been looking at this for almost three whole months and cannot figure it out...even when trying to dance it alone.:(:(





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Just got to reading this. It's not that complicated and I do it as appropriate to the music and my parter's following abilities.

Kindly bear with me, as this can be a bit weird to explain in print. The best way to get into this type of sacada is to get into crossed system, where you (and your partner are on three tracks).

Ignore her cruzada. That's just an illusion. This can be done in a straight walk. Watch him. He takes her into a cruzada, but at 00:52, he takes a half step to stall and get him into crossed system. Then he steps into the space that her left foot just occupied. He contacts thigh to thigh which displaces the whole leg. Immediately following with a lead for a back ocho to follow through with the (semi) circular movement completing the illusion.

He does the same half step at 00:55.

[Mladenac]

It is very simple :D

You should be in cross sistem, and leader should do back cross, while lady does front cross.
These entering into the crosses, are done while coming into giro.
For leader the following is important:
1. you leader a giro to your left (you body disocciation for leading giro)
2. while leading giro with you upper body, you slowly transfer weight from you front to back leg
(you must lean forward cause you will not be able to put your back leg in extended position)
3. and when body transfer is finished you enter into in sacada.

It's very important that you maintain constant circular speed when perfroming giro.
There is a trick that I should ask my teacher how to leading in double time.
When and how to put impulse for that giro.

This dance is mediocre, no wonder you couldn't get it.

What you need you can find in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFT8-Bxwb60 (0:04 - 0:08s )

some concepts you may find here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXB4DyoCj5M

[Mario7]

It is very simple :D
(you must lean forward cause you will not be able to put your back leg in extended position)

Well, thanks fellows I appreciate your taking the time to try to explain this..but it's still Greek to me...it looks like I will have to put it on the back burner and hope that it dawns on me when I am practicing simpler stuff. :roll::roll::roll:

[Mladenac]

Leader when enters into back cross should be have extended leg,
he can do that if he is slightly bent forward (close embrace).

For starters practice body dissociation and turning to dissociated side using your inner core muscles.
In open embrace stance, and later in close embrace stance.
Giro is led with your outer shoulder, and arm.

[newbie]

Well, thanks fellows I appreciate your taking the time to try to explain this..but it's still Greek to me...it looks like I will have to put it on the back burner and hope that it dawns on me when I am practicing simpler stuff. :roll::roll::roll:

It's easy. The video does not help much because the lady's feet are hidden at the critical moment.
Ok you have two same sacadas in succession. Forget the first one for the moment and let's see the second one. You know how to lead a cruzada in cross system. Just do that. When the lady crosses, cross behind with left foot and with the weight. On the next step, the lady will move backwards with her right leg and you will move forward with your right leg too, doing a sacada. Now do the same but you lead the cruzada on a double-time, that is:
(beat) you step with right, lady too but backwards
(half beat) you lead the cruzada, the lady crosses forward with left, you cross backwards with left.
(beat) lady steps backwards with right, you step forwards with right for a sacada.

Once you can do that you can add the first sacada, which is simpler.
(beat) side step to the left, lady mirrors
(beat) Feet collected, you change weight (now on your right foot) and you keep the lady on her right foot. This is going into cross system, you've done that gazillions of times.
(beat) You step forward with left, lady backward with left.
(beat) lady steps backward with right, you step forward with right for a sacada. (0:52)
(beat) You step forward with left, lady backward with left. (0:54)
(beat) you step with right, lady too but backwards (0:55)
(half beat) you lead the cruzada, the lady crosses forward with left, you cross backwards with left. (0:55)
(beat) lady steps backwards with right, you step forwards with right for a sacada. (0:56)

[Mario7]

OK NewB..I'll give it another try tomorrow during practice..thanks.
I see all of those steps..I just can't do them. I'm going to try it
strictly from a crossed footed walk. No cruzada...wouldn't you agree
that that is simpler?

[newbie]

wouldn't you agree
that that is simpler?

IMHO it's easier with the cruzada, because followers do cruzadas everytime they get the chance. For this second sacada you need to lead a change of weight on a double-time, and while theoritically it should be easier to do that during a walk, in practise it may be difficult because the follower is not used to stepping on double-times during a walk. Usually during walks the follower remains on the beat while the leader steps on a double-time. On the other hand, any follower is very familiar with cruzadas and will do them without thinking, even on a double-time and in cross system.

[tangobro]

there is something happening there that does not meet the eye...

This part I can answer easily - Yes.
As others have mentioned the sacada creates an illusion. One of my primary teachers says much of tango is illusion. Maybe that idea is worth a thread on it's own. I've had several teachers say that a good lead should NOT be obvious to an observer. Perhaps these are 2 of the reasons that some things in tango are hard to learn by watching, and even harder to learn by watching videos.

The descriptions of the mechanics are good, but after you get the mechanics to work, try them on a woman who has some experience receiving sacadas so you can get feedback on how they should feel. After I learned how to do them, and could make them work with other women who were also just starting, I tried them with more experienced women. Feedback helped me realize I did NOT have them down pat.

[Angel HI]

..but it's still Greek to me...it looks like I will have to put it on the back burner..... and hope that it dawns on me when I am practicing simpler stuff.I know that you do not want to listen to this, but you are partially correct. Delete the bold from your post above and insert this.........and work on bettering my balance, centers, steps, and embrace in the walks/giros. Then, I will learn well what the lady is doing.