Shines

[Pacion]

Do you like shines? I gather some people do and some don't :shock: I love them! :banana:

[Sagitta]

Shines. I love shiny things. When anything shines my eyes glitter, I'm mesmerized, drawn to them. Wait!! :? This is about salsa!!

I like salsa shines too. I do them if the music calls for it and if my partner can do it. There are many who are uncomfortable doing shines, so I kind of hold myself back.

[Sakura]

Shines. I love shiny things. When anything shines my eyes glitter, I'm mesmerized, drawn to them. Wait!! :? This is about salsa!!

I like salsa shines too. I do them if the music calls for it and if my partner can do it. There are many who are uncomfortable doing shines, so I kind of hold myself back.

:lol: :lol: :lol: *YES!* Another person who loves Shiny things! *grins* Sagitta, you're a wonderful person! :friend: :bouncy:

I've never done a Shine in my life, honestly; but I know I'll have fun with them once I can! I've seen a shine done before, and it was utterly amazing!

...But, what *exactly* does a Shine entail? Is it merely doing certain moves from Salsa by one's self, or are there specific "only-for-Shines" moves that one learns?

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[Sagitta]

Here are three useful threads Sakura:

(1) Building a shine repertoire (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1158&highlight=shines)

(2) turbo shines (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2335&highlight=shines)

(3) ladies shines (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2655&highlight=shines)

[Sakura]

Thanks, Sagitta! :D

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[youngsta]

Love them, do them a lot especially if my partner enjoys them. You can be very, very playful with shines. And the connection is still there, it's all about giving and receiving with the eyes.

[pygmalion]

Eyes ... and lots of other things! :lol: Shines are a blast. :D

[don_svendo]

They're cool, but I don't know any... :(
I'll vote anyway! 8)

[pygmalion]

Make them up as you go along! :lol: 8)

[Sagitta]

The thread called "Building a Shine Repertoire" in my above post has links to a couple shines, so you have a place to start Sakura Kitty, don_svendo...

[Sakura]

The thread called "Building a Shine Repertoire" in my above post has links to a couple shines, so you have a place to start Sakura Kitty, don_svendo...

Check 'em out, DS! I did, and they're great! :D Thanks Sagitta-kun!

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[Sabor]

Rise and Salsa Shine!! 8)

[don_svendo]

The thread called "Building a Shine Repertoire" in my above post has links to a couple shines, so you have a place to start Sakura Kitty, don_svendo...

Check 'em out, DS! I did, and they're great! :D Thanks Sagitta-kun!

Yeah, it's already in my bookmarks... I've tried out a few before the bathroom mirror too... :oops: :lol:

[MacMoto]

Some songs always get me in the mood for shines for some reason, but usually I'm not a big fan. All I do is copy what the leader does or do some basic variations with body movement type stuff and hope the leader picks up that I'm not comfortable...
I'm still in the process of building a basic repartoire of shines. I seem to forget most of what I have practised once I'm on the dancefloor. :oops:

[Sakura]

I'm still in the process of building a basic repartoire of shines. I seem to forget most of what I have practised once I'm on the dancefloor. :oops:

Awww! Don't worry, you'll remember it all someday, I'm sure of it! Just keep trying, and I'm sure you'll do great! :D :friend:

[ketchup]

All I do is copy what the leader does or

As a leader, I always appreciate it when the follower does it. :D

[Sagitta]

Okay. Since we are on this topic I feel that doing shines involves a different sort of interaction then dancing connected. The follower does follow the music and leader, but does not imitate him. For instance, follower does body and hand styling in place while the leader responds to this with some in place dancing and turns, follower does a turn, followed by leader doing a double turn, connecting and doing partner dancing. Here the follower is not imitating what the leader does, but the dancing of both is a result of what the other partner is doing and music. There are times in shines where one imitates the other, but that should not be the over-riding theme. And note that the leader can respond to what the follower does, and it is not always the other way around, as seems to eb the case for dancing connected. This is my shine philosophy and what I've observed in my limited sphere from advanced dancers. :)

[ketchup]

And note that the leader can respond to what the follower does,

What do you call that step... side step or Cuban step, whatever it is....,
I think that step has a magical character...
No matter what I am doing, once the follower starts doing that step, I always find myself doing the same. :lol:

[Sagitta]

You make little of my sage advice my friend! :(

You ask for the magical step that makes you or her do exactly what the other is doing? Lack of confidence? :wink: :)

If I start a Suzy Q a follower often joins. You know what I do? On the second measure, (meaning I moved to the right on the first measure with my left foot in front of my right, while dancing on1), I do a slide by right foot in place as a launching step (quick), with a big step using my right foot at a angle of about 30 degrees anti-clockwise (quick), and then right foot meets and makes contact with left resulting in left foot leaving the ground (slow), [Follower probably is meeting you here as I'm pretty sure she would stillbe doing Suzy Q] followed by left foot cross (quick), right foot back (quick), left foot together with right. [By now whether or not follower is doing Suzy Q or has stopped you can put some distance between ecah other.] This combo usually works well as by the end the follower has stopped doing Suzy Q. It does not look as if she was just copying me, but rather that we are responding to each other.

Another example are front crosses, where I can easily splice in a turn, changing the way I do the crosses from the first quick to the slow, or the other way around.

[ketchup]

You make little of my sage advice my friend! :(

No! By any means... that was NOT my intention. Sorry if I sounded that way. :cry:

You ask for the magical step that makes you or her do exactly what the other is doing? Lack of confidence? :wink: :)

1st question, no. 2nd question, always YES. Since the day I started dancing, there has been always lack of confidence in every aspect of my dancing; not just about shines. :cry: :cry:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To be honest, when MacMoto said, "All I do is copy what the leader does or .....," I didn't picture her literally "copy"ing what the leader does. Even if that was what she meant, I still wouldn't have any problem with that; on the contrary, as I said in my post, I would still appreciate it, because by doing that, the follower lets me know that she is still paying attention to me.

And I always try to let the follower know that I am still paying attention to her when we are in "shine" mode. Most of the time, by way of eye contact, sometimes, by doing the same type of step that she is doing, other times, by responding to her the way you have just described ------
For instance, follower does body and hand styling in place while the leader responds to this with some in place dancing and turns, follower does a turn, followed by leader doing a double turn, connecting and doing partner dancing.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Overall, I agree with your shine philosophy, but mine may be a bit different --- as long as we know we are still paying attention to each other, ANYTHING GOES.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Going back to "lack of confidence," when the follower was totally into herself, not even gave me a glance during her entire "show" over more than 20 measures---- I used to get :x , and decide to out-shine her. But that was a long time ago. Now that I am a little more secure than I was in those days, I just go "You go girl! Yeah!" :wink:

[squirrel]

I love shines... though I don't know many... but when I dance I usually invent on the spot... try to go with the music :)

[mellody43]

I LOVE watching people do them. I am fairly new to shines/solos so my repertoire is limited :shock: -- but I am trying to get more up to speed!

Ladies, if you are low on shines, never underestimate the power of little half-basic plus a hipshake. LOL!

Melissa

[tj]

Ladies, if you are low on shines, never underestimate the power of little half-basic plus a hipshake. LOL!

Melissa

...very interesting... (thinking....)


:wink:

[Pacion]

Ladies, if you are low on shines, never underestimate the power of little half-basic plus a hipshake. LOL!

Melissa

...very interesting... (thinking....)


:wink:

Are you sure you are 'thinking' and not visualising? :roll: :roll: :lol:

[tj]

Ladies, if you are low on shines, never underestimate the power of little half-basic plus a hipshake. LOL!

Melissa

...very interesting... (thinking....)


:wink:

Are you sure you are 'thinking' and not visualising? :roll: :roll: :lol:

Nope, I was thinking about how I was going to make Miss M. shake her hips tomorrow night...


But visualizing works for me, too.

How was the NYC trip? Did you get to take any classes from Mr. E. Torres?

[Pacion]

No :cry: He was in Paris. But I got to dance with Boriken, which was almost as good :banana: :lol:

[tj]

No :cry: He was in Paris. But I got to dance with Boriken, which was almost as good :banana: :lol:

While I most likely won't have the pleasure of dancing with Mr. Boriken (since my On1 follow is mediocre and my On2 follow is non-existent) :roll:
I am looking forward to meeting him in person in the near future...

[Pacion]

:nope: well, you just need to do something about it :wink:

[mellody43]

Ladies, if you are low on shines, never underestimate the power of little half-basic plus a hipshake. LOL!

Melissa

...very interesting... (thinking....)


:wink:

Are you sure you are 'thinking' and not visualising? :roll: :roll: :lol:

Bah!

I call it "distractionary tactics." I can't shine, so I may as well shake!

[tj]

Bah!

I call it "distractionary tactics." I can't shine, so I may as well shake!

Now you've got me visualizing... :wink: :bouncy:

[mellody43]

No :cry: He was in Paris. But I got to dance with Boriken, which was almost as good :banana: :lol:

:shock:

Please let me know what I must do to prepare for the force that is Boriken.

:wink:

[youngsta]

Interesting how many people refer to a shine repertoire when it's only freestyle dancing. No need to have shine patterns, dance what you feel :wink:

[Sagitta]

Some people might say there is no need for moves in salsa, dance what you feel. What is the point of patterns? People must start from somewhere. A lot of people feel comfortable starting from the point of moves / patterns, even with shines.

[youngsta]

patterns in freestyle dancing seems contradictory to me...but that's just me. :lol:

[salsalawyer]

Make them up as you go along! :lol: 8)

me too!!


I can never remember the things that they teach in class!!!

[Sakura]

Ladies, if you are low on shines, never underestimate the power of little half-basic plus a hipshake. LOL!

Melissa

...very interesting... (thinking....)


:wink:

Are you sure you are 'thinking' and not visualising? :roll: :roll: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: Hipshakes! I'd better pray my father doesn't see this, or he'll *really* be worried about me and my Latin dances! :lol: :wink: Maybe he's thinking about visualising?

No :cry: He was in Paris. But I got to dance with Boriken, which was almost as good :banana: :lol:

Uh-oh, Pacion! Better not let our dear Boriken hear you say he was "almost" as good as someone else! :twisted: :wink:

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[MacMoto]

Sometimes I see two advanced women dance together (leader shortage!), not partnering but doing what I can only describe as "a shine duel". One of them starts with a 2-bar shine, and the other either repeat it ("anything you can do, I can do better!") or try to out-shine it ("is that all you can do? Look what I've got!"). Always fascinating to watch. I wish I could do something like that one day, but in the meantime I just have to perfect my hip shakes and body waves (at least guys seem to like them :wink:).

[Ray]

shines make the salsa more juicy

more playable and makes it for the outsiders nice too see..

i vote yes..

can't dance without shines ;)
8)

[peachexploration]

Hi Ray. Long time, no see. Glad to see you're still around. :D

[Sabor]

patterns in freestyle dancing seems contradictory to me...but that's just me. :lol:

ditto.. i am the same way..

but i guess this is easier to do for some who got natural rythme and been already dancing other stuff b4 salsa.. yet, i saw many who dont have that ability first off and need to develop it as they progress in the dance.. hence need to learn shine patterns b4 they start playin da groovy beat.. 8) and yet again, some never do get that creative natural free styling goin and so stick to learned/choreographed patterns which i find relatively quite limitting .. but done well, still better than none i guess

[borikensalsero]

No :cry: He was in Paris. But I got to dance with Boriken, which was almost as good :banana: :lol:

:shock:

Please let me know what I must do to prepare for the force that is Boriken.

:wink:

You must do 20 push-ups a day, 15 pull-ups, and take a karate class. :D and come dressed in camouflage.... :shock:

[borikensalsero]

No :cry: He was in Paris. But I got to dance with Boriken, which was almost as good :banana: :lol:

:argue: :doh:

The celebrity status I see. lol... does he know on1? Cause as you know, my on1 is DA BOMB!! I gots it goin' on1. No one can touch my on1.
:tongue:

Pacion, did you get to dance with Mario at Jimmy's?

[peachexploration]

You must do 20 push-ups a day, 15 pull-ups, and take a karate class. :D and come dressed in camouflage.... :shock:

Camouflage :!: Sorry, I draw the line at camouflage! :nope: I'm only kidding. :P :lol:

.....but i guess this is easier to do for some who got natural rythme and been already dancing other stuff b4 salsa.. yet, i saw many who dont have that ability first off and need to develop it as they progress in the dance.. hence need to learn shine patterns b4 they start playin da groovy beat.. and yet again, some never do get that creative natural free styling goin and so stick to learned/choreographed patterns which i find relatively quite limitting .. but done well, still better than none i guess

True Sabor. I'm wondering if the term "Shine" scares some people to death. In previous classes, I've watched fellow students totally freak out when the teacher throws a shine lesson at them or don't do shines at all when dancing salsa. They say that it throws them off but when they're out freestyle dancing, they have no problem whatsoever. Hmm.... :?

[salsachinita]

the term "Shine" scares some people to death.

It's so true. I used to think that I would really suck at shine.......turning up to Luis & Joby's workshop feeling soooooo not worthy.......

Until it dawned on me, right there in the middle of it all: "Hey! I already do this every week at the clubs (just never labelled it 'shine')!"

All these years, we've all done it out there, except we call it 'freestyle' & just make things up as we went along 8) .

Seriously, no patterns needed here.

[mellody43]

It's funny to think about applying steps and/or patterns to your freestyle dancing but I think of it this way ...

Great musicians typically need to know the framework of the song -- think of jazz musicians here -- knowing chord progressions, key changes, etc -- before they can improvise really well. I played classical piano for years -- I can read pretty much anything on the page in front of me, but I can't improvise -- I never really learned how to THINK that way. So for me, movement is the same way. I need a little framework before I can find my freedom within the framework.

Once I feel a bit more confident in knowing a few steps, I can play with how to incorporate them into my own movement/style. It's mostly about confidence for me - and not wanting to look like an idiot. :-)
Melissa

[mellody43]

No :cry: He was in Paris. But I got to dance with Boriken, which was almost as good :banana: :lol:

:shock:

Please let me know what I must do to prepare for the force that is Boriken.

:wink:

You must do 20 push-ups a day, 15 pull-ups, and take a karate class. :D and come dressed in camouflage.... :shock:

Oh dear. *prepares for battle*

[salsachinita]

come dressed in camouflage.... :shock:

8) No worries, bro! I'm usually dressed in cargo or camouflage things anyway..........

[mellody43]

come dressed in camouflage.... :shock:

8) No worries, bro! I'm usually dressed in cargo or camouflage things anyway..........
Salsachinita, Salsa Warrior Princess. LOL!

[dragon3085]

Shines are fun. I always think of them and explain them as your change to 'shine' you don't have to mirror or mimic me- it all you. I think everybody likes a little chance to shine now and then.

[Sakura]

come dressed in camouflage.... :shock:

8) No worries, bro! I'm usually dressed in cargo or camouflage things anyway..........
Salsachinita, Salsa Warrior Princess. LOL!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That's perfect for our dear Salsachinita!! :wink: I think we should all be preparing for *her* instead! :D

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

(PS- The thought about patterns in freestyle is definitely a very interesting one! :D Good food for thought.)

[Sagitta]

Oh no!!! I definitely didn't want it to go that way! Just let your body move to the music!! And if you are not sure what to do just take a good salsa aerobics class. Then when you go dancing you will be on your way to freestyling well, doing your solo salsaing styling. :)

[Sakura]

Oh! I didn't mean to say that I'd use a pattern once I'm ready to do shines, but I just thought the irony of it was interesting... Patterns in Free. =^_^=;; I have an odd sense of humour, I know...

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[mellody43]

http://images2.fotki.com/v18/photos/9/9145/46831/Katesrequestdancndevil-vi.gif

[tj]

Bah!

I call it "distractionary tactics." I can't shine, so I may as well shake!

Well, your "distractionary tactics" http://images2.fotki.com/v18/photos/9/9145/46831/Katesrequestdancndevil-vi.gif were quite effective last Tuesday night!

:wink:

[mellody43]

Bah!

I call it "distractionary tactics." I can't shine, so I may as well shake!

Well, your "distractionary tactics" http://images2.fotki.com/v18/photos/9/9145/46831/Katesrequestdancndevil-vi.gif were quite effective last Tuesday night!

:wink:

Bah!

[Sakura]

http://images2.fotki.com/v18/photos/9/9145/46831/Katesrequestdancndevil-vi.gif

:shock: :shock: :shock: That's so cool! Where did you find that?! :twisted:

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[mellody43]

http://images2.fotki.com/v18/photos/9/9145/46831/Katesrequestdancndevil-vi.gif

:shock: :shock: :shock: That's so cool! Where did you find that?! :twisted:

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

Someone sent it to me! hehe!

[Sakura]

http://images2.fotki.com/v18/photos/9/9145/46831/Katesrequestdancndevil-vi.gif

:shock: :shock: :shock: That's so cool! Where did you find that?! :twisted:

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

Someone sent it to me! hehe!

I love it!!!! =^__^= *purrs*

Sakura Kitty :kitty:

[San]

I love shines, and really like to mix them into my dancing.

I try to practise them more at home, so I'll be able to do shines fitting the music without thinking so much.

Too much thinking kills cool shining :lol:

[Lita_rulez]

Well, the most important thing about shine, if you want to become fluent in this body langage, is forget there are people around.

Actually, you should forget that YOU are around people.

Better yet, forget yourself.

I have seen this happen to a friend in L.A. this pas may : he never did shine, he was always very limited in his moevments, allways looked as though there was a safe-circle around him (say 15 cm) and going out of it was very dangerous. He'd only do 2 or 3 patterns we had learned a while back, and then grab his follow quickly.

Basicaly, he was selfconcius to the point of not wanting to move, because when you do move, people look at you and can see that :
a. you can't shine to save your life
b. you are fat and ugly
c. you can't shine to save your life (yep, said it already, but it is twice as important as the rest)

Now while in L.A. he suddenly decided while the band was in midst of an unbelievable jam session, that he needed to move his body. He didn't pay attention to WHAT he was doing, or WHY he was doing it. He just DID.
And guess what ? Nobody threw stones at him !

It was like the chains holding him back had been broken down, the shinist in him had been freed. Still a litle sore after all this time beeing held down, but man was he hungry for revenge !

In 3 days, he went from "no shine for me, no can do and look like a fat monkey" to "that's right, I'm grooving babe, 'sup with you ?"

Amazing to look at.

We left Paris, I was a better shinist then he was (and I m a relatively poor one) when we got back, he had 2 or 3 light years on me !






Now, back on the whole "patterns in freestyle ? what a curious idea" thing.

As someone very nicely put it, your ability to "just get out there and let yourself go" depends on a lot of things.
- Your general attitude vis-a-vis people around (shy, selfconcius, love to brag, etc.)
- the way you hear the music (some people will never get it right, no matter how hard they try, some will sense everything 2 or 3 beats ahead of times, and will allways break and change right there)
- your musicality (knowing what is coming up and doing something that flows as naturaly as the music are 2 separate things)
- your background as a dancer (3 years of hip hop and 5 years of ballet will give you a different outlook on shines than 3 weeks of salsa)

But though all this is important, let's face it :

Shines are like a language : it flows, it rolls of your tong, and each and every one of us can do pretty much what he want's with it. Some are gifted poets, some will bucher it going "Yeah I C wt U mean, G-frnd" like they are on a damn cell phone limited by the number of letters in the message; some will be able to explain the same concept over and over again, never using twice the same sentence, never boring an audience, some will get you to understand it, but only because they are repeating what they have read in the books; some will put emotion in their speach, some will just come out flat.

But if you break it down, what everybody has in comon is the basic vocabulary.
We have all learned the same letters. We have all learned what happends if you put an "a" right after an "e", we know that in some cases you need to put a "y" and in some you need to put an "i", and we have all learned the same basic words (me you want need can water...).
Then every body will build on that, and get to either points I have stressed before, or even combine several, and go beyond.

Well, shines are the same.
Though you can spice them up, and use them as you please, you need have a "basic vocabulary", a base to build on.
Sure, lots of things come into account, and you do not need to choregraph each and every shine you might ever do, but heck, if you want to be able to move acording to the music, I'll be damned if you don't have to know how to move in the first place !

You can not expect someone who has never danced before salsa to get on the dance floor and burst into an amazing shine that seems rooted in the music, and that looks like his body is wired a diffrent way then yours.
You can't give somebody boxing gloves and expect him to stand against Ali.
You can't lace up your jump shoes and expect to take on M.J. just because Nike said to "just do it"

Sure, once in a while, you will happen on a "natural", somebody who is so gifted, that he actually can pick up things just by looking at people doing it in front of him, and then incorporate it and reproduce it.


But for the average Joe (the vast majority of us) out there, there needs to be a base to build on.


And besides, having this base is a huge step towards realyzing you can do more, because it will give you the cement to hold foundations of your shine repertoir together : confidence.

[mellody43]

You can not expect someone who has never danced before salsa to get on the dance floor and burst into an amazing shine that seems rooted in the music, and that looks like his body is wired a diffrent way then yours.
You can't give somebody boxing gloves and expect him to stand against Ali.
You can't lace up your jump shoes and expect to take on M.J. just because Nike said to "just do it"

Sure, once in a while, you will happen on a "natural", somebody who is so gifted, that he actually can pick up things just by looking at people doing it in front of him, and then incorporate it and reproduce it.


But for the average Joe (the vast majority of us) out there, there needs to be a base to build on.

Thank you, thank you, for putting my thoughts into words so well! I think I feebly tried to express this earlier (this thread? another thread? Doesn't matter.)

=)
Melissa

[Lita_rulez]

Thank you, thank you, for putting my thoughts into words so well! I think I feebly tried to express this earlier (this thread? another thread? Doesn't matter.)

=)
Melissa

:oops:

Want to know womething spooky ?

It is precisely your post with the analogy Salsero/Jazzman that motivated me to post here !

So you are more then welcome, since you are basicaly the reason for these words :wink:

[mellody43]

Thank you, thank you, for putting my thoughts into words so well! I think I feebly tried to express this earlier (this thread? another thread? Doesn't matter.)

=)
Melissa

:oops:

Want to know womething spooky ?

It is precisely your post with the analogy Salsero/Jazzman that motivated me to post here !

So you are more then welcome, since you are basicaly the reason for these words :wink:


hehehe! How funny!

I think an extension of our thoughts here is that people who dance/"shine" really well make it look like they are completely organic -without any training behind it. Really, how likely is that to be the actual case? :-)

Melissa

[mambochino]

HMM..TOO LONG TO READ ALL THAT MANY PAGES.

SIMPLY PUT:

I LUV SHINES!

2 BEERS DOWN, FEELING THE MUSIC, MAKE IT UP SHINES ALONG THE WAY AND BUST A MOVE! KICK UP THAT SUSIE Q PLUS A NOCH, DO A LIL MAMBO AROUOND THE CLOCK AND SHAKE MY BELLY LEFT SHAKE MY BELLY RIGHT (THAT'S WHAT YOU DO WHEN U R TOO BUZZ TO MOVE THAT RIB CAGE OF YOURS :P )

[Sabor]

AND SHAKE MY BELLY LEFT SHAKE MY BELLY RIGHT

:lol: :lol:

[Sakura]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Too buzzed, eh? *shakes her head* Shaaaaaaame. :wink:

SK :kitty:

[squirrel]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Sakura]

*blinks at the smileys* Hey! Between Sabor, you (Squirrel), and me, we've started a mini-mulitiplication table with the smilies!

Sabor=2
Me=4
Squirrel=8

...*blinks again* Only a Geek like me would notice that! :mrgreen:

SK :kitty:

[Danish Guy]

...*blinks again* Only a Geek like me would notice that! :mrgreen:


So, we have a little geek dancer here 8)

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Danoo]

wow i love shines :D

the best shines imo are:
half flare
spiral taps/kick
suzi q

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

I voted ocasionlly. I prefer partner dancing but once in a while I like breaking away.

[Sakura]

...*blinks again* Only a Geek like me would notice that! :mrgreen:


So, we have a little geek dancer here 8)

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

:twisted: Of course! Would it be any fun without us Geek-dancers?! :friend:

SK :kitty:

[squirrel]

the world would be no fun without geeks!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Sakura]

the world would be no fun without geeks!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

HA HA!!!!! *She* gets it! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

SK :kitty:

[Danoo]

lol SK :)

geeks are cool :lol:

[Sagitta]

the world would be no fun without geeks!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

As we wouldn't have anyone to poke fun at? :wink: :)

[Danoo]

lol
thses forums are so funny :)

[Sakura]

:wink: :twisted: You get it too!

:cry: :cry: I'm so proud of you both! :lol: :lol: :lol:

SK :kitty:

[SalseraLaura]

where i dance salsa i am like the shine lady, i constantly get ppl coming up to me like

"you know that shine you did earlier....can u teach me that?"

unfortunately most of the time i dont remember what i did earlier because i was just doing what the music told me to do, but i do give them some advice, this is what got me fluent in shines.

Learn a few long shines, where a couple of shines are threaded together. so you know like maybe 3 or 4 mini routines, practice these non stop. if im not dancing with a guy, im doing shines on my own in the club. when i first started i did the set shines over and over, shine 1,2,3,4 and repeat. even though i knew the shines i usually couldnt do it when it came to dancing with the guy cos he was doing all this fancy stuff and all i could do was a suzie q. then one day i knew the shines so well that they just came out without me thinking and the guy stopped dancing he was like :shock: then i still kept doing my shines maybe replacing one with a new one and then one day when i went to do a shine, my own shine came out....a different combination of the moves i knew so well!! and eventually shines just became something as easy as a CBL..

well thats my 2cents :D

[Sakura]

I'd say that was worth a little more than 2 cents! :D

SK :kitty:

[DWise1]

OK, please pardon the extreme stupidity of this question. My only excuse is that I'm starting my second month of Salsa tonight (this is ignoring previous Salsa instruction from about 4 years ago, a few months of intermediate followed by a few months of beginning).

Just what are shines?

I know that it's when the couple breaks away and each dances on his/her own. I know it's meant for individual expression and for showing off.

But just what are they?

In warm-up at the beginning of class, we do the basic step, and the turns, and cumbias, and cucarachas, and forward and back breaks, and hook turns, and box steps, etc.

Are shines basically just combinations of those? Such that you make up a shine by stringing together those steps? OK, you may add some body stuff (arm styling, shoulder stuff, etc) -- in fact, that should be where the artistry of the shine is -- , but basically you're just piecing these steps etc together to create a shine. Right?

Curious gringos want to know.

[borikensalsero]

Shines are meant to be the solo expression of each dancer while keeping a connection without touch.

They are a string of steps, either made up, or taught like patterns for couple work. You do them when you pull away from each other. There it is time to use what you have been taught, or be creative and make up your own body movement/steps.

[Sagitta]

Dwise! check out the building a shine repertoire (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1158&highlight=shines) thread. It has some links to a couple shines that are broken down for you, as well as other useful info.

[Kali Ma]

I'm fairly late on this one (pokey ol' me!), but I just had an experience last night that reminded me how nifty shines can be. You know those moments of utter inspiration you sometimes have while dancing, when you feel as if there were tongues of flame leaping up from the top of your head? I had that with someone last night while shining...he was giving me so much to play with, such great intensity, it was...WEE-HAW! I doubt that I could remember and repeat any of what I did if I racked my brains for the rest of my life, but that feeling is going to be giving me goosebumps for the next good while...Zow!!

I have to agree with those who have been stating that you need a certain amount of confidence and comfortableness within the dance as a whole to feel good about doing shines. I know that when I started dancing, I'd fairly break into a cold sweat at the mere thought of shines. :shock:

The importance of knowing a bit about the basic structure of the song(s) can't be underestimated, either (IMHO); the music is your framework, the structure on which the dance rests and which gives it its forms and possibilities. I think that if you listen to the music alone, just dancing to it, not thinking about any sort of partnerwork imperatives, you'll discover a whole bunch of nutty stuff that just works, and you'll hear more clearly those moments when you have the chance to (ooh, bad pun at ten o' clock! :oops: :lol: ) shine. Then it's easier to work out how to best accomplish specific movements and footwork combinations; once that's done, you can forget it all and improvise whatever fits the moment.
My (admittedly rather simplistic) take... :)

[salsachinita]

The importance of knowing a bit about the basic structure of the song(s) can't be underestimated, either (IMHO); the music is your framework, the structure on which the dance rests and which gives it its forms and possibilities.

Well said, Kali Ma 8) !

This is where musicality comes into play, big time. It never ceased to amaze me how many people think of it as an afterthought :shock: ! Hence the needs to "rote-learn" shine routines intead of freestyling :roll: .......

Here's the "Musicality" thread: http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=4406 if anyone missed it. It's another must-read!

[Pacion]

The importance of knowing a bit about the basic structure of the song(s) can't be underestimated, either (IMHO);

This would not work if you are out and hearing a song for the first time. BUT, listening to the music will certainly help :banana:

[Danoo]

if u ask me shines bring salsa together
some shines are firtly and nearrly all shines you stare at you partney :wink:

[Ray]

salsa and shines = ultimate salsa

salsa without shines is ehm.. so robotic ;)

the shines/moves makes the dance.. everybody can do nice combinations..

its the style the movement you do with it

;)

[Danoo]

exactly my point :P

[Kali Ma]

The importance of knowing a bit about the basic structure of the song(s) can't be underestimated, either (IMHO);

This would not work if you are out and hearing a song for the first time. BUT, listening to the music will certainly help :banana:

Mmm, my emphasis was actually on basic song structure --not on knowing a specific song note-by-note-- but I'll have to disagree. If you know the basic "pattern" of song structure within a specific genre, it's much simpler to adapt your dancing (shining) to any one specific song, generally speaking, and make educated guesses about which direction an unfamiliar song might take. That has been my experience, in any case, and it has worked for me. :)

[MacMoto]

If you know the basic "pattern" of song structure within a specific genre, it's much simpler to adapt your dancing (shining) to any one specific song, generally speaking, and make educated guesses about which direction an unfamiliar song might take. That has been my experience, in any case, and it has worked for me. :)
And this was the main point the teacher made at the "musicality class" (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?p=64795#64795)I attended -- he said salsa music is formulaic, meaning that salsa songs were often structurally similar, making it reasonably easy to guess how long each phrase might last and what might be coming next.

[Istel]

Sorry for digging up another old thread :roll:

I'm having problems trying to make ladies look good while dancing with me, so is there any threads addressing this problem? Also, when the girls are doing shines while in Titanic postition(eh... I wonder do we use the same terminology...) what should the guys do? Just holding her hands and stand still (that's what I do normally, maybe I'll do a few butt shake if I'm feeling it...) How can we guys amplify her shines, so that she really shines (pardon the pun)on the dance floor?

(C&P from another posting in another related thread...)

P.S. Just a tiny request. Is it possible to put up a sticky for all these valuable information? I think it's really useful for noobs like me :)

[cocodrilo]

When a guy releases my hands it is usually a sign to start doing some shines. Most often,(in my situation anyhow) it is the GUY who wants to do some shines- sassy footwork or some spins or funky techniques he knows. Sometimes we do a little shakin' together, sometimes we just do our own thing, all the time conscious of what the other is doing(FUN to watch!). Somtimes the guy doesn't do much of anything, but that's cool, too! He's giving ME a chance to do my shines(& I LOVE shines!). I suggest you do your own thing, whatever you feel most comfortable doing, whether it be fancy footwork or just following the music with a basic!

[etchuck]

I'm having problems trying to make ladies look good while dancing with me, so is there any threads addressing this problem? Also, when the girls are doing shines while in Titanic postition(eh... I wonder do we use the same terminology...) what should the guys do? Just holding her hands and stand still (that's what I do normally, maybe I'll do a few butt shake if I'm feeling it...) How can we guys amplify her shines, so that she really shines (pardon the pun)on the dance floor?


"Titanic position"... I don't know the formal name either I assume that you mean that you're holding the lady out in a "cross" but that both of you are facing the same direction (and not each other). It's probably better for you to hold your ground, do nothing, and let her do whatever she wants. Give her enough stability to do whatever shines she wants.

[Sagitta]

I have done the cross, but then the lady asks what to do! :) Well, beginners do and some of the intermediate dancers. It isn't that common in my area - the cross.

[peachexploration]

How can we guys amplify her shines, so that she really shines (pardon the pun)on the dance floor?

Istel, I love your avatar. Too cute! Etchuck is right. It's probably better for you to hold your ground, do nothing, and let her do whatever she wants. Having said that, when doing shines, the best answer I could give you is to "play" off of the follower's shine. (They in turn, may/should do the same.) Use the action/reaction technique. Even when you are apart doing shines, you are still somewhat connected. That's where "play" comes in. If the follow does a body roll, spin, or slide, try reacting (flirtatiously) to it. I love it when my leads does that and when they do, my shines become flirtatious (amplified) as well. :)

[borikensalsero]

what should the guys do? Just holding her hands and stand still (that's what I do normally, maybe I'll do a few butt shake if I'm feeling it...) How can we guys amplify her shines, so that she really shines (pardon the pun)on the dance floor?


I think you are referring to what is called the T-Stance in New York City. The couple is facing each other, guy creating a base for the lady to hold on to, with arms comfortably extended (somewhat wider than shoulder width) but not in locked position at waist high. Here the lady is asked for a shine display while holding the guys hands as a base...

I like to keep beat with my upper body. Meaning that I move it side to side in either 2,3,4 6,7,8 counts, or 2 and 6... If not moving the upper body I also like to slowly move my right or left foot in a circle while she is stepping, again keeping beat... another nice one is the circling motion of the buttocks during the entire 8 count.

However, the leader must be responsible for that base, and the ladies safety first! If you are still a beginner then stand there and only hold base, don't let your arms move all over the place, etc...

To enhance it, then you pick which beat you want to enhance her steps on, then using your upper body (not the arms) generate the lead/motion where you want her to step "bigger/louder" by moving your upper body towards a given side. Girls usually have a sick repertoire of shines for this position so enhancing it really isn't a worry...

In all, what you do is really up to you... Think of what you feel like doing and do it... as long as you think of her first.

[Istel]

Thanks peach, am glad that you and Sagitta like my avatar enough to comment about it :D

As for the cross/titanic/t-stance. I guess I'll just stick to being stable and maybe moving my shoulders a little, while at it (I'm thinking of doing the lap clapping as a reaction to her flirtatious shines? Would it look uncouth when I do it while she's bending her body or moving her hips?)

Just for fun, sometimes I'll also like to swoon at her when she's doing her shines(when apart and facing her that is), would love to try out the heart pumping madly thing mentioned by sabor :lol:.

However, I think I'm having problems with body isolation, it's like when I'm doing those little movements i.e. twitching my shoulders, other parts of the body would act up, thinking they deserve a part of the action as well, instinctly moving/stiffening up... :roll:

Thought of taking up latin jazz classes to train up my body expression but, too little money, too little time :cry:

Anyone with similar problems? Would love to hear how you managed to overcome it.

[Danoo]

Sorry for digging up another old thread :roll:

I'm having problems trying to make ladies look good while dancing with me, so is there any threads addressing this problem? Also, when the girls are doing shines while in Titanic postition(eh... I wonder do we use the same terminology...) what should the guys do? Just holding her hands and stand still (that's what I do normally, maybe I'll do a few butt shake if I'm feeling it...) How can we guys amplify her shines, so that she really shines (pardon the pun)on the dance floor?

(C&P from another posting in another related thread...)

P.S. Just a tiny request. Is it possible to put up a sticky for all these valuable information? I think it's really useful for noobs like me :)

sry i dont understand
u dont hold your partners hand while doing a shine
and when the wonman does a shine
doesnt mean u do the same
shines are random lol


OR

do u mean when your behind your parter hollding both her hands ( when leonardo is being that woman :P)

[Sagitta]

Danoo there are different ways of "shining". What we are referring to here is providing support so that the woman can do things that normally she cannot do while solo dancing. Often the leader can make the follower do swivels, and pivots, and other moves in this position; but the leader can also allow the follower the freedom to improvise and respond to that improvisation. :)

[Lucretia]

Hi!

All I can do is shine!

Expect for dancing with people from the same salsa class as I attend, then I can dance salsa connected as well. I have big problems to follow other people who want me to take steps and patterns that are unfamiliar for me :? . I can however follow the dance teacher and the coo teacher…so there must be some hope for me in the long run… :wink:

Well back to the topic. Several years ago (being very young) I learnt the Hustle who is a stripped version of salsa (or vice versa ..salsa has probably taken inspiration from Hustle and evolved from it …I don’t know for sure).

Therefore all my freestyle disco dance follows the basic pattern 1,2,3_5,6,7_ but it doesn’t look Latino at all. It’s more like a mess of classical, jazz, rock and African dance.

I know I’m good at it. People have told me for all my life. But sometimes I tend to scare my partners; they don’t have a chance to follow me. So last years I’ve tried to “tune down” the amplitude of my expressions. Saving my bad legs (pronation) and not scaring the guys.

Now for the big question
Can I use my very personal body language in Shining? Or should I evolve it further to the Latino style, not scaring people and not being to extreme. How free am I to express what’s already in my body? Is it Ok to mix styles as long as I can count to 8?

/Lucretia


pst.
Almost daily I take a “freestyle salsa” in the living room. It makes me feel good and its good exercise. Then it’s also a good time to figure out new shines and mix the shines from the salsa classes with your own personality. Why don't you try it!

[Danoo]

Danoo there are different ways of "shining". What we are referring to here is providing support so that the woman can do things that normally she cannot do while solo dancing. Often the leader can make the follower do swivels, and pivots, and other moves in this position; but the leader can also allow the follower the freedom to improvise and respond to that improvisation. :)

aa i see

im thinkning of giving the woman and guy freedom doing half-flares and suzi q's and that :)

[borikensalsero]

Can I use my very personal body language in Shining? Or should I evolve it further to the Latino style, not scaring people and not being to extreme. How free am I to express what’s already in my body? Is it Ok to mix styles as long as I can count to 8?

Salsa should be just about that, self expression, however you must take your partner to that crazy world you speak of, well, at least help him...

As long as you don't look like a chicken with the head cut off you are fine doing your own thing. Be unique, cultivate what you have and use it in salsa. There is no rule that say you must look like this or that, that only comes in when you try to dance per a given style's techniques...

Keep the beat, don't look wild, which means you must always look to be in control, kind of like a descarga, the band is going nuts but they have control and a purpose, which in a dancer relates to looking "clean" and in synch with the music, despite how "wild" you get, control is key!

If by latino you mean, afro cuban feel in the music then, it is perhaps a benefit to be able to incorporate it to your style...

Remember that there is such a thing as dancing a given dance to a music, yet still not be dancing the music...for if you dance hustle to salsa you will look like you are dancing hustle to salsa and not dancing salsa...

[Lucretia]

Salsa should be just about that, self expression, however you must take your partner to that crazy world you speak of, well, at least help him...
…
If by latino you mean, afro cuban feel in the music then, it is perhaps a benefit to be able to incorporate it to your style...
..
Remember that there is such a thing as dancing a given dance to a music, yet still not be dancing the music...for if you dance hustle to salsa you will look like you are dancing hustle to salsa and not dancing salsa...

Thank’s Borikensalsero, you express it so well!

I just love "however you must take your partner to that crazy world you speak of, well, at least help him... "

I guess I’m too occupied by learning to follow...especially patterns I never done before…that I have problems with my own expression. I don´t dare or have the time until I can manage the basics.

The afro cuban style is there - as long as I dance connected anyhow :wink: ; . The Hustle is gone for ever. Only a few fragments have survived… a few shines me and my former dance partner created (built on hustle, swing and rock).

(Sometimes I really long for my old dance partner, especially nowadays. But he moved over the Atlantic several years ago and he is probably both fat and bold headed and not the excellent dancer I remember :lol: . Or perhaps he is a excellent salsero…who knows)

Sometimes I believe the problem is that my body language is to “experienced” in that way that people who dance with me believe I’m a better dancer than I really am. After a few seconds they start patterns I havn’t a chance to follow. I try to give them a hint…but perhaps they don’t listen or perhaps they are too occupied by performing well themselves. Or perhaps I just need a few more classes and some more night clubing. I don’t know.


/Lucretia

[Big10]

Sometimes I believe the problem is that my body language is to “experienced” in that way that people who dance with me believe I’m a better dancer than I really am. After a few seconds they start patterns I havn’t a chance to follow. I try to give them a hint…but perhaps they don’t listen or perhaps they are too occupied by performing well themselves. Or perhaps I just need a few more classes and some more night clubing. I don’t know.
Here's my theory on your so-called "problem" -- your development seems to be the opposite of most Salsa dancers.

In other words, most of us view complicated shines or expressive body movement during Salsa as an advanced skill. It was stressful enough for us to learn to match the basic to the music :oops: and then trying various turns/patterns....such that truly feeling relaxed enough to fit in creative shines was something that has taken a long time -- and some people unfortunately never get. Using my primary Salsa instructor as an example, his "advanced" level of classes devoted more time to body movement, weight distribution, and looking authentic/natural (skills that show up best during shines) -- rather than the patterns that took most of our time at the beginning and intermediate levels.

Hence, when a leader sees how comfortable/free you are with the music and the beat and moving your body, the leader will simply assume you've reached an advanced or at least high-intermediate level of Salsa dancing. The partnering and/or lead-follow training are so often the preliminary stages before reaching your level of body comfort, that we make the assumption you learned Salsa the same way we did -- even though it sounds like those foundations are where you feel the need to develop, almost in a reverse fashion.

So much of dance is an unspoken communication between a leader and a follower. However, given the "problem" that you seem to be experiencing with Salsa leaders who assume too much about your following skills simply from watching you, perhaps you need to just go ahead and verbalize the issue. If a man asks you to dance, say something like "Yes" (of course :wink: ), and add "but I'm still learning how to follow." That should give him a clue that even if he sees you bust out some awesome styling, he still needs to be attentive and cautious with his leading of patterns.

I don't think you should deprive yourself of the joy you feel while moving your body and "shining," so it's just a matter of making sure that the leader realizes how he should handle you during the partnering moves. Good luck!

[Istel]

OR

do u mean when your behind your parter hollding both her hands ( when leonardo is being that woman :P)

Yup, just like what Sagitta had said. As it looks like the scene from the Titanic, hence it's namesake (courtesy of my instructor :lol:).

Lucretia: What I would give to have your problem :P j/k
However, I think you should tell your partners that you're experienced in other dances but not Salsa. I think that would put less pressure on them to perform, it's a male ego thing I guess :wink:

I wouldn't be surprised that the guys you're dancing with, were freaking out. Hence, out comes all the fancy patterns to eh make up for his lack of potency in body expression and musical appreciation. :)

If he's too dense to get it, it's time to print out the 10 commandments of Salsa from this forum and slap it on his face next time you're out dancing :P

[Sagitta]

If he's too dense to get it, it's time to print out the 10 commandments of Salsa from this forum and slap it on his face next time you're out dancing :P

Let's stay away from the violence, shall we!! Particularly as this is not an egregious case. Now, if you suggested that for the guy who bugs Shydancer all the time I have no objections. :wink: We can take this guy out and have a firm discussion with him. As to what that involves I leave to your vivid imaginations. :)