Two questions from someone considering WCS

[lemonade]

Hello,

I have never taken WCS. It looks fun and I would like to try it. I was wondering

1- if there are any youtube showdance/showcase videos that WCS dancers could point me to that show what it can look like at its best/most amazing and who are the dancers that are the most fun to watch (i.e in latin Ricardo/ Yulia or Slavik/Karina--even though these two no longer dance together to me their videos are always inspiring)

2-to do a WCS comp is it choreographed with a routine that you and your partner/teacher rehearse or do you go out and do your best to follow your partner (I am female) and are judged that way?

Thanks very much for any replies!!

[Spitfire]

Hello,

I have never taken WCS. It looks fun and I would like to try it. I was wondering

1- if there are any youtube showdance/showcase videos that WCS dancers could point me to that show what it can look like at its best/most amazing and who are the dancers that are the most fun to watch (i.e in latin Ricardo/ Yulia or Slavik/Karina--even though these two no longer dance together to me their videos are always inspiring)

Yes, there are plenty of these on YouTube; just by entering West Coast Swing dance for your search. Good ones too.

2-to do a WCS comp is it choreographed with a routine that you and your partner/teacher rehearse or do you go out and do your best to follow your partner (I am female) and are judged that way?

While I've never competed I believe there are categories for both choreograph and free style and I'll leave it to those who do compete to give more details about this.

[samina]

check out the video area in the swing discussion board... lots of great vids there. here a few of my faves...(these are all improvised, not routines)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcdV8cESWUs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFNnjqqqjg4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl_tM8svg1o

here's a great performance from routine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fXulOk14D4

[RickRS]

Never done or have attended a WCS comp, so I'm going on heresay: A big thing for WCS comp is Jack & Jill, a luck of the draw, improvised type competiton that randomly pairs up partners and randomly assigns songs at the time of the comp. Really great stuff happens with the top level performers in a Jack & Jill.

One of my favorites: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3i6kyLLB2g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3i6kyLLB2g)

[lorenzof]

Search on youtube for Benji Schwimmer, son of the creator of WCS.

[kpm]

There are divisions for choreographed routines where you compete with your partner and provide the DJ with the appropriate music. These are generally for the professionals, although some competitions have a division for amateurs as well.

As for ProAms, some comps have these too. Whether they allow choreography or not, I am not sure since I have never done one of these. My guess would be that it is not allowed. In any case, the music is chosen by the DJ, so while it would be possible to do a pre-defined routine, it would look pretty silly and disconnected from the music.

The main type of competition at West Coast events is the Jack and Jill where you draw a partner at random, and the music is also chosen randomly. Choreography is explicitly forbidden, I believe.

For the sake of completeness, there are also Strictly Swing divisions where you choose your partner beforehand, but are otherwise the same as a Jack and Jill.

For videos, both routines and J&Js, just search for any of the top Westies- Jordan Frisbee, Tatiana Mollmann, Kyle Redd, Sarah Van Drake, Ben Morris, Melina Ramirez, etc.

[gracie]

Search on youtube for Benji Schwimmer, son of the creator of WCS.

Buddy Schimmer invented the Night Club Two Step, not WCS, West Coast was around before he was even born. It evolved out of Lindy in the 1930's

[gracie]

Check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7NnzBoydpc&feature=PlayList&p=2324B2F45EC6964D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=59

[Steve Pastor]

Benji Schwimmer, son of the creator of WCS.
Gracie has already pointed out the incorrect information here.

Things we know for sure about WCS are that it was first known as Western Swing in and around the very late 30s, through the 40s and 50s. (As late as 1971 the term was still being used in an Encyclopedia of Social Dance.)

It was first described in writing by Lauré Haile, and named "West Coast Swing" (publically) by Skippy Blair.

The relationship to Lindy has been more and more minimized as the years (and decades!) have gone by, at least by those who define the dance. This has made West Coast Swing pretty much a separate dance, rather than a style of swing (unless you are NOT a "studio dancer"!).

[lemonade]

Thank you so very much everyone!!! I love those videos, and can't wait to look up more! WCS is sure a great-looking dance! I am impressed beyond belief that any of that happens without a routine!! Coming from latin and jazz, well it sure takes it up a million notches on the difficulty curve. I am sure everyone gets used to it but the thought of going to a comp with no idea who I am competing with, nor what music it will be, nor what my partner will lead is quite frightening. I suppose you just have to throw yourself in and GO! No relying on rehearsing or routine...really amazed and impressed!

[jennyisdancing]

Thank you so very much everyone!!! I love those videos, and can't wait to look up more! WCS is sure a great-looking dance! I am impressed beyond belief that any of that happens without a routine!! Coming from latin and jazz, well it sure takes it up a million notches on the difficulty curve. I am sure everyone gets used to it but the thought of going to a comp with no idea who I am competing with, nor what music it will be, nor what my partner will lead is quite frightening. I suppose you just have to throw yourself in and GO! No relying on rehearsing or routine...really amazed and impressed!

Hope you enjoy WCS...I love it. :friend:


WCS is definitely different from ballroom as far as the emphasis on improv and social dancing skills. In WCS, people at all levels, even pros, are on the social floor a lot. So, in a certain sense, you're not entirely "throwing" yourself in, because, by the time you get to a comp, you should have a lot of social dance experience, and in many cases, you're dancing with some of the people who you will end up competing with at a Jack and Jill. And that's on top of taking lessons and practicing, of course.

Still, if you don't like the idea of improv, there are opportunities to do a rehearsed routine. Some of the comps offer "solo" divisions which means you perform a routine with your partner, with costumes, music and choreography; each couple performs separately on the floor and then you're ranked.

[Flat Shoes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFNnjqqqjg4

Absolutely fabulous!

Edit:
But I will add a question to you Westies. Isn't her arm a bit too straight and stretched now and then? Look for example at 0:36 or 0:54.

[lemonade]

So am I correct in thinking that you do not need a partner to do comps? (non pro-am) That you sign up for Jack and Jill and you are assigned someone to dance with thereby eliminating the need for a partner (as one needs in ballroom)? Or is that just one portion of a comp and the other portions require you to have a partner?

[Dancelf]

So am I correct in thinking that you do not need a partner to do comps? (non pro-am) That you sign up for Jack and Jill and you are assigned someone to dance with thereby eliminating the need for a partner (as one needs in ballroom)? Or is that just one portion of a comp and the other portions require you to have a partner?

In a jack and jill, partners are assigned randomly in all rounds - preliminaries to finals.

[Steve Pastor]

I happened across this not too long ago. Maybe you will find it interesting, as I did.
Text by Skippy Blair.

JACK & JILL -
(1) A form of Swing Dance Competition where the dancers do not know in advance who their partner will be. A name or number is randomly drawn to determine the partnership. It is called "Luck of the Draw.” (2) In 1994, the Jack and Jill Competition reached National Championship status. The stakes were high and the "Luck of the draw" was interpreted in a different way. Most Championships now allow two draws for individual "Call Backs" in the Preliminaries. Finalists are usually judged as couples.
Historical Note: At HANK & STANS in NORWALK, California (circa early 1950s), JACK CAREY ran weekly Swing Dance Contests. The top dancers always won, and pretty soon the contestants narrowed down to 3 or 4 top couples. They always won all of the money. New dancers were difficult to recruit. Jack wanted to encourage a variety of new dancers to participate. He had them put their names in a hat and draw for partners.. He called this new kind of contest a “Jack and Jill.” They have now been around more than 50 years.

[kayak]

So am I correct in thinking that you do not need a partner to do comps? (non pro-am) That you sign up for Jack and Jill and you are assigned someone to dance with thereby eliminating the need for a partner (as one needs in ballroom)? Or is that just one portion of a comp and the other portions require you to have a partner?

The J&Js have random partners, but there are other divisions that you can bring your own partner to.

[kpm]

So am I correct in thinking that you do not need a partner to do comps? (non pro-am) That you sign up for Jack and Jill and you are assigned someone to dance with thereby eliminating the need for a partner (as one needs in ballroom)? Or is that just one portion of a comp and the other portions require you to have a partner?

These comps are usually part of a larger event. The event itself usually lasts the whole weekend (Friday though Sunday night), in rare cases even longer. There are usually workshops in the morning, comps and performances in the afternoon and evening, then social dancing until you can no longer stay on your feet.

You would sign up for the J&J as an individual. You'd be assigned a bib with a number on it. A J&J is typically run as follows: When the comp starts, the first heat of leaders are called out and lined up by number. Then the followers are called and also lined up by number with a leader. Then some number is chosen at random, by computer, by drawing a card, etc. Then the follwers will rotate thhat many number of leaders. This is your partner. You find a spot on the floor and dance a song, then line back up with your leader. Another number is drawn, you rotate to a new leader, and the process keeps repeating until the judges are satisfied they've seen enough. Semifinals are run the same way. In these rounds you are judged as an individual If you make the finals, you are judged as a couple.

Finals are eitther run as above, but with no partner rotation, or as a "spotlight final" where a leader is called up, draws the name of a follower from a hat and the two dance as the only couple on the floor. Even though these are competitions, they have a very relaxed and informal feel to them. They are a lot of fun.

The other type of comp is the Strictly Swing which is the same as a J&J but with a partner of your choice. Often this is a friend who came with you, or someone you've run into at the event and haven't seen in a while. "Hey, wanna do the Strictly with me tomorrow?" That's it. You sign up as a couple. Like the J&J, it is a very relaxed affair.

[jennyisdancing]

These comps are usually part of a larger event. The event itself usually lasts the whole weekend (Friday though Sunday night), in rare cases even longer. There are usually workshops in the morning, comps and performances in the afternoon and evening, then social dancing until you can no longer stay on your feet.

You would sign up for the J&J as an individual. You'd be assigned a bib with a number on it. A J&J is typically run as follows: When the comp starts, the first heat of leaders are called out and lined up by number. Then the followers are called and also lined up by number with a leader. Then some number is chosen at random, by computer, by drawing a card, etc. Then the follwers will rotate thhat many number of leaders. This is your partner. You find a spot on the floor and dance a song, then line back up with your leader. Another number is drawn, you rotate to a new leader, and the process keeps repeating until the judges are satisfied they've seen enough. Semifinals are run the same way. In these rounds you are judged as an individual If you make the finals, you are judged as a couple.

Finals are eitther run as above, but with no partner rotation, or as a "spotlight final" where a leader is called up, draws the name of a follower from a hat and the two dance as the only couple on the floor. Even though these are competitions, they have a very relaxed and informal feel to them. They are a lot of fun.

The other type of comp is the Strictly Swing which is the same as a J&J but with a partner of your choice. Often this is a friend who came with you, or someone you've run into at the event and haven't seen in a while. "Hey, wanna do the Strictly with me tomorrow?" That's it. You sign up as a couple. Like the J&J, it is a very relaxed affair.

I guess it's relaxed compared to traditional ballroom comps, since you don't need costumes or choreo. But make no mistake, there is some stiff competition and people do a lot of prep to win J & J's - private coaching, a lot of practice and social dancing, etc.

It is not easy to win a J & J, especially if you're female, because the field is larger. I have several friends who compete, and it took most of them a couple years of doing several J & J's per year, before they placed top 5 in their division.

Also, the divisions can be misleading. Less-experienced people usually start in Newcomer or Novice division for J & J's, but this does not refer to skill level! It only indicates that you have little or no experience specifically competing in West Coast Swing. However, some of the competitors are actually professional or near-professional in other styles of dance, and they are technically quite advanced. Or they have been dancing WCS socially for many, many years but only recently decided to compete.

[kpm]

I guess it's relaxed compared to traditional ballroom comps, since you don't need costumes or choreo. But make no mistake, there is some stiff competition and people do a lot of prep to win J & J's - private coaching, a lot of practice and social dancing, etc.

Definitely relaxed compared to ballroom. I guess it's a matter of perception, but I have always gotten an easy going vibe at all the J&Js I've been in. This doesn't mean they aren't competitive. As you correctly pointed out, they are indeed very difficult, especially Novice.

None of the events I hive attended had a Newcomer division. My first comp was Swingdiego, six months or so after I started West Coast. I jumped right into Novice. To say I was a little outclassed by the rest of the competitors would be a slight understatement... But it was still a worthwhile experience, and I quite enjoyed it.

[jennyisdancing]

Definitely relaxed compared to ballroom. I guess it's a matter of perception, but I have always gotten an easy going vibe at all the J&Js I've been in. This doesn't mean they aren't competitive. As you correctly pointed out, they are indeed very difficult, especially Novice.

None of the events I hive attended had a Newcomer division. My first comp was Swingdiego, six months or so after I started West Coast. I jumped right into Novice. To say I was a little outclassed by the rest of the competitors would be a slight understatement... But it was still a worthwhile experience, and I quite enjoyed it.

Wow...that must have been quite an experience! In my limited comp experience, yes, I would agree about the easygoing vibe. I mean, it's friendly and not a tense, backbiting type of thing, even though it's competitive. I would add that in my area, the strictlies are not always quite that casual as you describe. Some people practice a lot with a regular partner for strictlies. But the cool thing about WCS is that one can enjoy social dancing at a very high level at many venues, so you don't have to compete in order to feel challenged.