Making a success as a ballroom teacher

[pygmalion]

The franchise deception or truth thread made me think of this one.

What does it take to make someone a successful ballroom dance teacher? I've seen, oh, about twenty or so people start basic training. Of them, four or five made it through the training. But, less than three years later, only one is still in the business. It's tough. Really tough. Why?

And another thing. Remember that scene in strictly ballroom where the Mom is telling her son why it's so important to win, win, win? You know what she said? You have to win. If you don't win, you'll never be able to teach. Hmm.

So here's a question. What makes a successful ballroom dance teacher? Personality characteristics? Credentials? Background? Experience? And is a successful teacher necessarily the same as a good teacher? A nice teacher? A good person? Why or why not?

Oh yeah, and a couple more things. Is being a successful ballroom teacher any different from being a teacher in another disciplines, say ballet or swing or Argentine tango? And does success look different in different countries or different cultures?

Thoughts?

[mr bixx]

let me be the first to try to answer this question. since i am a teacher at one of the franchised studios. to me to be a successful teacher has to do with two things. money. i need to be able to live and make my bills. so i need to be teaching alot. we dont get paid unless we are teahing. this isnt a 9-5 job where i can sit at a desk and get paid. when i first started getting 5 hours a week it was hard. then 10 hours a week was hard. now i'm shooting for 20-25 hours of teaching a week. to get there is difficult. you have to be a very personable person. people have to like you. if you cant build report with your students and get there trust, forget about them buying lessons. beyond your personality you have to be a good sales person. my lessons dont come cheap. when i started i couldnt grasp the concept of spending that much money to learn to dance. i didnt know what these people were thinking. 3k to learn to dance. i was thinking of the cars clothes vacations i could take. it wasnt until about a year later when i learn just what we were selling though. learning to dacne is just the cover. its what people really get. the confidence they have never had before, the weight loss advantages(excerise) the stress relieving part of there day when they can wind down and clear there mind. also the perfect thing for couples who are both working and extremely busy, this gives them a good out for just them. these are all things i didnt see at first. to be succesfull you have to understand this and make your students see this early. this is what makes you the money. which happens to be my first measure of succes.
second i measure my success in my own dancing. how well i am doing at comps and getting recognition. if you have a way to compete and get your name out there, and you start placing well people will want lessons from you. right now i'm preparing for a national comp in july. my goal there is to place well in some of the closed divisions. i want my name out there, and i eventually want to get a title for myself. because this ties to my first point, money. more students that want you the more money in your pocket. hope this helps alittle bit.

[pygmalion]

Yes. That helps a lot. and thanks for being brave enough to be honest.

I think you're bringing up some good points that lot of people either ignore or never realize. For a dance teacher, teaching is a way to make a living. Yes, they may love dancing. But love doesn't pay bills. So bottom line, before anything else, you've got to make a decent living.

I remember one of my former teachers -- a young woman who told me that teaching dance was her "dream job." Less than a year later, she quit, right after two of her students declined to buy the next level dance package. She was getting paid an hourly wage. She just couldn't afford to stick around and do her "dream job" long enough to build a clientele. It's tough, financially, and in other ways, I'm sure.

Good luck with the comp, mr bixx. 8)

[Jmatthew]

Winning is really the only "Marketable" asset a dance teacher can have. How many flyers for workshops have "He's a great teacher, really!!" in bi letters across the front? Or "trained the 2004 World Champs!" Nah, it's always "2004 World Champs!" that's what gets people in, that's why winning is super-important.

An acquaintance of mine, who happens to be one of my favorite lindy instructors in the universe, told us the story of how he wanted to teach, so he trained for a year or so for the World Champs in europe, went and won (which, for Lindy is apparently easier than winning the US championships because Lindy Hoppers are all so poor they can only pick either event) just so he could have some legitimacy as a lindy teacher.

Did winning make him a better teacher or dancer? I don't think so. But it legitimates him as an instructor.

From the students point of view, I think the most important component of a teacher is the ability to make the lessons fun. If I'm just grinding I might as well be at work. I want to get better, but I don't want to suffer horribly to get better. :) Of course this makes you more marketable too. If people enjoy spending time with you they'll buy more lessons from you.

The other huge issue to me is an ability to explain technique. Showing moves is pretty easy, we learn moves from videos all the time, so it's obviousely not a huge gift to be able to "show" moves, but to explain all the weight changes and body movements can be very very difficult, and if a teacher can make me discover new muscles to get my body to move just right, that makes a teacher really great.

[Sagitta]

I know several dance instructors that have come into dancing through it being a part-time job, and then eventually doing it full time once they built up a reputation. Even before doing it part-time they helped out as an assistant, for free, or for a nominal wage, as they already had a job, learning the ropes from a successful dance business. Here I am talking about independents. Then these people also taught free survival lessons before dances. All these strategies help to get teh word out and build up your clientale. I would think a much easier route then just plunging into it full-time.

[SDsalsaguy]

Winning is really the only "Marketable" asset a dance teacher can have.
While winning is certainly a top draw in marketing I disagree that it is the only one. Just to illustrate, in the ballroom world (and this is in the ballroom forum), Team Amsterdam comes to mind... they have helped train several Blackpool and World finalists, are well known for it, and are very highly sought out coaches. Just some food for thought...

[KevinL]

What does it take to make someone a successful ballroom dance teacher? I've seen, oh, about twenty or so people start basic training. Of them, four or five made it through the training. But, less than three years later, only one is still in the business. It's tough. Really tough. Why?

What definition of "successful" would you like to use? One version of "successful" is someone who can always get to that one little phrase, word, or demonstration that allows the student to get whatever they are trying to teach.

That might be a basic bronze level movement exercise, or an incredibly intricate Open-level technique, but if the teacher can teach effectively (even if they only teach part-time and don't intend to earn a living teaching), they are "successful".

The next level of "success", as others have suggested, is being able to earn a living as a teacher. In this regard, a "successful" teacher is someone who teaches enough, and often enough, that they can support themselves, and thier families.

So here's a question. What makes a successful ballroom dance teacher? Personality characteristics? Credentials? Background? Experience? And is a successful teacher necessarily the same as a good teacher? A nice teacher? A good person? Why or why not?

In my opinon the most important predictor of success would be a persons personality characteristics. They have to be motivated to learn, they have to be motivated to teach, they have to be personable enough that people are willing to take their classes, they have to be organized enough to actively run a business.

Certainly crdentials, background and experience will make being a successful teacher easier, but depending on how you define "successful" someone who comes to dance as an adult and learns to dance/teach, and is passionate about teaching, might be more successful than a world champion who isn't excited about teaching.

It's also my opinion that the most successful teacher will be a good person.

Kevin

[robin]

I think success as a teacher can come in many different routes...

For competitive dance, being a past or current champion is a guarantee for work. The few i've met are actually all fantastically nice people as well as great teachers, but I have a feeling that even *if* a past champion was a miserable bastard, people would still pay for lessons with them.

Another route to success as a teacher is through having excellent students. If a small independent studio starts producing excellent amateurs, others will take notice. My first teacher always told me "if you want to dance like a champion, don't get lessons from a champion, but from a champion's teacher". I think a lot of people heed this advice. Also the competitive dance scene in most countries i've heard of is very well inter-connected so advertising by "word of mouth" does wonders. I know a teacher who got dozens of students from our town, just because she taught one couple who were really impressed with her and gave everyone her phone number. So in a way in competitive dancing success breeds success. Success in this way is measured in how fast people improve. Most people prefer a likeable teacher, but are perfectly happy to go to a "nasty" teacher if it improves their competitive dancing.

I think social dancing is a whole different kettle of fish. It's not so much about people getting "better", but about making them feel good about themselves, letting them enjoy themselves. Again, word of mouth does wonders, but people don't have any independent measure of progress, so it's much more a question of likeable or charismatic personality. Advertising can get some new people involved, but i think students mentioning it to friends/family/work colleagues/... is the main way ...

[DanceAm]

Success as a Ballroom teacher can probably be achieved the same way as success in anything else. Certainly experience and education can be helpful, it is not a guarantee of success.

(If sitting behind a desk all day were an easy way to make money, don't you think everyone would do it?)

I think there are many characteristics of a successful dance teacher, but financial success is different from being an accomplished teacher. But some things I think are important:

1. Maintain a high level of integrity. Say what you'll do and do what you say, be on time, be prepared for lessons.

2. Advance your personal growth. Though being a champion might be important to set yourself apart from others in a big city or region like the Northeast or LA, it is not as important in smaller cities. But put time and money back into your own dancing and knowedge.

3. Treat your students as you would like to be treated. (Golden Rule) Many successful people and companies are re-adopting this philosiphy.

4. Create a mutually beneficial (business) relationship between you and your students. They may have money, but need something like dance to enhance or enrich their lives. Make it fun and meaningful for them. You need money and they have it. They will pay a fair price for what you help them with. If you help them meet their goals, they in turn can help you reach your goals. If the relationship is based on respect, they will stay with you and you will enjoy working with them.

Although you could be successful financially by believing students are sheep to be sheered. They are stupid and should be treated like children. Get their money and get them to commit. Go after the elderly, they are trusting and will give you all their money before they know it is all gone. Don't teach them everything you know because they will see that you are not worth what they are paying. Your job is to sell hours, not teach them to dance.

The last paragraph is why dance studios and dance teachers have to work so hard. The word is out about Dance Studios and they have a bad rep. Too many studios and unscrupulous teachers are out there and people just don't want any part of it. There is more opportunity for all dance teachers and studios if the focus was on the student. 20/20 did an expose' on dance studios a few years ago and many still remember. Changing this perception the public has is much harder until all studios and teachers see that there business is enriching people's lives, not selling packages. When that perception is changed, more teachers and studios will have more students than they can handle.

[pygmalion]

3. Treat your students as you would like to be treated. (Golden Rule) Many successful people and companies are re-adopting this philosiphy.

Amen.


4. Create a mutually beneficial (business) relationship between you and your students. They may have money, but need something like dance to enhance or enrich their lives. Make it fun and meaningful for them. You need money and they have it. They will pay a fair price for what you help them with. If you help them meet their goals, they in turn can help you reach your goals. If the relationship is based on respect, they will stay with you and you will enjoy working with them.

Amen to that, too. :notworth:

Although you could be successful financially by believing students are sheep to be sheered. They are stupid and should be treated like children. Get their money and get them to commit. Go after the elderly, they are trusting and will give you all their money before they know it is all gone. Don't teach them everything you know because they will see that you are not worth what they are paying. Your job is to sell hours, not teach them to dance.

My first teacher was like this. It worked with me for a year, and I've been blackballing and bad-mouthing him ever since. That kind of (expletive deleted) strategy backfires, in the long run, I think.

[pygmalion]

Actually, that's not quite true. I haven't blackballed or badmouthed, while identifying him. That would lower me to his level. :x I have posted cautionary tales on websites like this, though, with no identifying details.

And, to be clear, it took me between three and foour months to catch on to the sales ploys at my former franchise studio (I was going through a lot of really bad stuff at home, or I probably would have figured it out sooner. ) When I realized that not all was as it seemed, I gave the studio multiple chances to "do right" by me, while watching everything, quietly. It took me a year to start looking for another studio, but, like DanceAm hinted, I really wanted to and tried hard to work with that studio before moving on. Consider that a word to the wise , if you're working at a franchise. Just because a student/customer doesn't openly challenge you doesn't mean that he/she doesn't see what's going on. Maybe they're like me -- waiting and watching for enough evidence before drawing a final conclusion. People are pretty smart. :? 8)


That said, I'll say again that not all studios are trying to dupe innocent or emotionally vulnerable students. Some (I could give names) are trying to teach people to dance. The trick, as a paying student, is to know the difference.

[Tanzen66]

Hello again Folks and fellow dancers

let me just say first that i have been dancing for about 29 years now...from tap and jazz to Ballet, Gymnastics and finally Ballroom. In this time i have studied with very many teachers, some have been wonderful , some haven't.Some have been very humble by starting out saying take this as an idea and roll around with it a while, while some have stated that this is the only you should conduct yourself and thats all there is to it. Where do you start. Eventually its all gotta add up to experience and the passion you create from your experience.... oh....and a lot of MONEY

I've walked out of coachings saying to my partner,, How much you get from that,,,,Nothing,,,, Me either... It musta been worth somthing we just dropped $250. lets sit on it a while and see what happens.and this person was a US champion at one time....6 months later your practicing and you have this vision that pops you back at that coaching and you go OMG thats what that meant, and it all makes sense. Then you go to work with another coach and they talk half the time about trivial things and you get very little from it at all

The true test of a teacher in my point of view is someone that is truly into what they are teaching you at that time, someone who is convicted that what they are teaching you is correct or will help you on your way to achieving your goals. some one who takes the time to not only teach but learn about your dancing and make it better each time you go see them

Theres a lot out for a quick buck

Theres a bunch of good teachers

then theres some great teachers

A great teacher doesn't have to be a champion, Just someone who connects with YOU and that you can learn from

Hope this helps

Tanzen66

[Sagitta]

Theres a lot out for a quick buck

Theres a bunch of good teachers

then theres some great teachers

A great teacher doesn't have to be a champion, Just someone who connects with YOU and that you can learn from

Hope this helps

Tanzen66

It does. Thanks Tanzen66. :) And we would love to see a lot more of you around df!! [hint. hint :) ]

[pygmalion]

Yup. Pretty astute, Tanzen66. Glad to see you back and posting. :D

[Kitty]

What does it take to make someone a successful ballroom dance teacher? I've seen, oh, about twenty or so people start basic training. Of them, four or five made it through the training. But, less than three years later, only one is still in the business. It's tough. Really tough. Why?

I've seen hundreds of pre-meds among the freshman class in my university, every year, but most of them drop out and major in something else by their senior year.

What about computer programmers? everyone wanted to be a programmer, but once the market was full, it became tough, only the one's with decent education get decent jobs nowadays.

Every profession is like, in the modern world, but the ones you notice are the ones that are more public. You know actresses and dance teachers and musicians, and politicians, but you probably don't remember the names of the nurses or in your doctor's office. (even though they probably make same money as your dance teacher).

What I'm saying is that all professions are competitive, and people drop out from all of them. With dance teachers, as with medical doctors, I think people who start training often don't realize how hard and demanding the chosen profession is. I don't feel that dance teacher profession is particularly difficult just because people drop out. It is not more difficult than many other professions.

[dragon3085]

Winning is important for marketing because the public at large understands the concepts of trophies. Go to any large Martial arts school or chain and the first thing you'll almost always see in the window is trophies from tournaments. Everyone wants to be a winner, be it in dance or karate (I'm talking the general public here). So those wins are one of your hooks to get people into the door. Now what I have noticed about the studio I go to and some other as well- is that- You might be a great dancer, or teacher or whatever, but if you don't know how to run a business then you screwed. Running a small business or owning a franchise, that takes a whole other set of skills, besides dancing and teaching. If your not paying the rent and bouncing business checks, you can be the greatest teacher/dancer in the world, you still not going to be in business very long.

[Chris Stratton]

Kitty makes an intersting point about comparison to other professions with demanding training. However I do think there is a major difference as well - most more traditional professions are a bit more forward about their 'class structure' or breakdown into various job grades.

For example, in a teaching hospital you have something like orderlies, nurse assistants, nurses, residents, professors. While it's not unheard of to move up the ranks, everyone is quite aware of the formal requirements and procedure to do so. There actually is a training program in place to prepare people for performing brain surgery, but everyone knows who is part of that program and who isn't.

With ballroom, a lot of that stratification is somewhat intentionally kept in the closet. People get recruited to undergo training to be the orderlies and nurse-assistants of the industry, but with the idea that they are on the road to being professors of neurosurgery. It's not impossible to get from a to b, but ordinary on the job training is not going to be oriented towards that career path. Just as there are systematic ways to train brain surgeons there are systematic ways to train ballroom technique experts - but neither industry needs to put its low-level 'worker bees' through that training, so neither one generally does. Those planning high level careers in medicine seek out specific training before they start work - those planning high level careers in ballroom might want to consider if a similar approach might be more efficient.

[pygmalion]

Wow, Chris, I love the way you think. 8)

[pygmalion]

Speaking of that subject, Chris, I believe that at least one of the franchises has some of that idea in place -- teachers who are specifically targeted at teaching beginners only, and other teachers who are trained to teach more advanced students. I don't know how many have teachers at the brain surgeon level, but at least there are specifically designated levels. I don't know how the transition is defined (it's not the franchise with which I'm most familiar.) Maybe someone else can comment. :?: :roll:

[robin]

At least in the UK the teachers who teach "high level" competitive dancing are those that made a name as dancers before making a name as teachers, usually in the amateur ranks at first and then as a professional, but even then they will mainly compete, and only teach a bit to supplement their income. When they retire they often turn into being the most eminent teachers...

Most "social" teachers were never high-level competitors, though there are always a few exceptions..

Most of the "competitive" pros will never have taught beginners, or if they have, then they taught them as competitive beginners, not in a social context. They will have danced for decades before doing any teaching, which i guess is comparable to a brain surgeon who has been to college/med school for years before being let loose on any patients...

I saw some posts here about teachers with 1 year of dancing experience. At least in the UK I don't think I know of anyone teaching who hasn't been dancing for quite a long time (say 5+ years at least), is that different to the US? Or was the talk of 1 year's teaching experience?

[Kitty]

I saw some posts here about teachers with 1 year of dancing experience. At least in the UK I don't think I know of anyone teaching who hasn't been dancing for quite a long time (say 5+ years at least), is that different to the US? Or was the talk of 1 year's teaching experience?

I know a person who was offered to take teaching position in a franchise studio, who only did Ballroom for like a month by that time (they wanted to train him, but he'd start teaching, all types of dance, even teaching privates, right away). However, that person had 3 years of Argentine Tango and Salsa experience, and has taken classes with lots of famous Argentine Tango teachers. So I thought he was very qualified to teach AT but not Ballroom. They were saying it is ok for him to teach Ballroom, because they were going to show him the steps that he was supposed to teach a week before he was supposed to teach them :shock: .

So he had lots of dance experience, but definitely wasn't qualified to teach even a social Ballroom class. (have to say though that very soon he dropped out of the teaching program because they were forcing him to sign some very stupid contract, so he never actually taught Ballroom, he only taught a total of 2 AT lessons. He was supposed to teach his first Ballroom class the night when he quit.)

[pygmalion]

I have an answer, robin, but I'm going to give someone else a chance to answer first. 8)

[DanceAm]

"6 Week Wonders"

That is the term used to describe new teachers at some studios. It is hard for someone just coming in for the first time to know whether the teacher assigned to them is new or experienced. It is hard to imagine that someone would start teaching ballroom after only 6 weeks, but that is how many get their start.

[pygmalion]

Yup. The training program is six weeks. Many of the people who come in have dance (not ballroom) experience, although some don't. But they all start teaching after six weeks' training. Edit: Everyone I've seen has started after six weeks, if there were new students available, which there usually were.

[Kitty]

"6 Week Wonders"

That is the term used to describe new teachers at some studios. It is hard for someone just coming in for the first time to know whether the teacher assigned to them is new or experienced. It is hard to imagine that someone would start teaching ballroom after only 6 weeks, but that is how many get their start.


What you are supposed to do is to ask who your teacher will be, what is his/her qualifications (say, he was an amateur champion of such and such, or he's been dancing Argentine Tango for 10 years and blah-blah).
Or you should say you are a competitor and you need a competitive teacher. I'd never schedule a lesson without knowing if the teacher is qualified. The studio owners are usually (at least all the studios that I know, including franchises) experienced professionals and do have some sense. But if you don't ask and don't say you are international style competitor, they'll assign the least experienced teacher to you as it is better for them that way.

[Genesius Redux]

What I look for in a teacher:

1. Professional commitment in the form of active competition usually
2. Integrity in teaching in terms of self-assessment and honesty
3. Friendship potential since I'll be doing Pro-Am and I need to work with someone I can connect to

[mamboqueen]

My standards are a little lower. I want someone who doesn't smell. Yes, you read right. I had a teacher who always stunk of B.O. Another one had some sort of gastrointestinal problems. The only upside to these two were that I lost weight from constantly being sick to my stomach.

Okay; that aside. I like someone who pays attention to my needs/desires/goals and, on some level, remembers them week to week, is honest, with praise when earned and constructive criticism when deserved, and someone who appears to love what they're doing. Obviously, they need the skill to teach and the desire to see their students succeed.

[pygmalion]

My standards are a little lower. I want someone who doesn't smell. Yes, you read right. I had a teacher who always stunk of B.O. Another one had some sort of gastrointestinal problems. The only upside to these two were that I lost weight from constantly being sick to my stomach.



Absolutely. Note to teachers who smoke: it turns off a lot of students. I had one etacher who was a chain smoker. No idea how he managed it, but I never, never smoelled smoke on his breath or his clothes. Very important to me. That stale cigarette smell is a real turn-off.