Tandas and cortinas

[AndaBien]

I’d like to start up a meandering and far-ranging discussion of tandas/cortinas.

When did they become customary in BA? I don’t imagine live orchestras used them in the ‘40s. What is the history of them?

Why do we use them? Is it because it’s how they do it in BA? Are there benefits that I am unaware off?

I actually dance less because of them. If I feel like dancing to a particular tune or in a particular moment, and I realize that it is the last tune of a tanda, I sit the tune out instead. I only enjoy milongas occasionally and I many only want to do one or two. If a milonga tanda begins and I feel like dancing, but don’t want to dance four milongas, I sit out the whole tanda.

What are your thoughts?

[Ampster]

It works for its intended purpose. That, If you like the "tango" of the particular person you are with, then you get to luxuriate in the experience for the duration of the tanda.

The back side... if it's not too good, then it makes for a very long tanda. You can however use the "Thank You" maneuver.

Anyway, I like it. It is what it is. So, I've learned to adapt to it. It works very well if you know how to manage the tanda.

[bastet]

I’d like to start up a meandering and far-ranging discussion of tandas/cortinas.

When did they become customary in BA? I don’t imagine live orchestras used them in the ‘40s. What is the history of them?

Why do we use them? Is it because it’s how they do it in BA? Are there benefits that I am unaware off?

I actually dance less because of them. If I feel like dancing to a particular tune or in a particular moment, and I realize that it is the last tune of a tanda, I sit the tune out instead. I only enjoy milongas occasionally and I many only want to do one or two. If a milonga tanda begins and I feel like dancing, but don’t want to dance four milongas, I sit out the whole tanda.

What are your thoughts?

I totally understand.

I am very fond of milonga, but not so much the really fast ones or Candombe...

So I make a little adaptation and don't have a problem dancing a "short" tanda. I try to make sure it's with someone i know, or am friends with when I do this, and I generally say beforehand that might want to cut it short, or start on a song after what we are listening to. It's always with someone whom I know would not take offense, but understands that some songs just don't do it for me dance-wise.

[joegrohens]

> Why tandas and cortinas?

As a DJ I have tried playing w/o cortinas, and it confused many of our dancers. I kept being asked if I was using tandas or not. I was, but the dancers could not tell one orchestra from the next.

It bothered some of the women because they felt obligated to keep dancing until the man decided to stop. Some of them felt that they might get "stuck" with a guy who was not that good, and have no way to end it. (Too polite, I guess.)

So I reinstituted cortinas and everyone seems very happy with it now.

I usually play only three songs per tanda.

For myself as a dancer, I feel that dancing only one or two songs with someone is a little too short, because it takes one song at least to find out how to dance with a new partner. So I personally do like having the tanda structure.

Tandas also help to guarantee that people will rotate and find other partners, and that way more people get a chance to dance than if couples stayed together all night.

Joe

[Steve Pastor]

Short answer is that I wish we would drop it.
Although I understand the retionale that it takes a while to "dial into" a partner, I think it raises the stakes in chosing a partner too high, thus hampering "dancing around", or dancing with many partners no matter what their level.
And, after 9 years of the same music, and realizing that, if I don't care for the style being played that tanda, or don't see anyone available whom I want to dance with (either because I feel they don't "get it" or aren't available, etc.), I'm going to be hangin out for the next 10 - whatever minutes....
It's the whole deal that you are EXPECTED to dance the entire tanda with someone that, in case I haven't made myself clear, doesn't seem well suited to our dance society.

ps. Give me a tanda of milonga and a partner who will dance the whole thing and I'm a happy camper. It is my favorite flavor of "AT". I am very gracious (I think) about not expecting my partners to go the whole ten yards, however.

[Steve Pastor]

Hey, welcome to DF, joe.

[AndaBien]

If I understand, tandas are nice sometimes because they allow women a graceful exit from partners they prefer to quit dancing with. Don't tandas also meant that women have to continue dancing with partners until the tanda is over, even if they would prefer to quit sooner?

[jantango]

I’d like to start up a meandering and far-ranging discussion of tandas/cortinas.

When did they become customary in BA? I don’t imagine live orchestras used them in the ‘40s. What is the history of them?

Why do we use them? Is it because it’s how they do it in BA? Are there benefits that I am unaware off?

I actually dance less because of them. If I feel like dancing to a particular tune or in a particular moment, and I realize that it is the last tune of a tanda, I sit the tune out instead. I only enjoy milongas occasionally and I many only want to do one or two. If a milonga tanda begins and I feel like dancing, but don’t want to dance four milongas, I sit out the whole tanda.

What are your thoughts?

The responses to your questions have been from those who have never been to Buenos Aires. I will try to answer your questions as they relate to the customs in Buenos Aires. After all, that is where tango traditions originated.

It was customary to have two orchestras alternating during dances--one for jazz and one for tango. Many of the tango orchestra leaders also had jazz orchestras -- DJ Daniel Borelli shared this tidbit with me recently. Each orchestra played for 30 minutes on stage. Those who went to dance tango danced--no tandas or cortinas. Then the jazz orchestra played for a half hour. They alternated during the night since no orchestra could play several hours for dancing without a break.

Tandas originated when recordings were used in the downtown confiterias for the evening dances. A larger variety of music was played for dancing in the 1950s than today in the milongas of BsAs. It included jazz, bolero, tango, vals, milonga, salsa, cumbia. Today there may be only one tanda of jazz or salsa music during an entire evening. When tango returned to its popularity in the late 80s, other kinds of music was reduced.

Alberto Paz wrote about the cortina in his tango blog www.elfirulete.wordpress.com (http://www.elfirulete.wordpress.com) This is a term borrowed from the old radio days where a distinctive musical interlude served to separate segments of a program. In the dance halls of Buenos Aires, a distinctive musical interlude is played between sets of tango music. This is done to clear the floor so the waiters can take orders and serve people at their tables. Also people use the break to go to the bathrooms, or get to walk to the bar to get a drink and get a better vantage point.

A milonguero told me that the cortinas were several minutes long with enough time to smoke a cigarette. Today, as soon as the floor is cleared, the next tanda begins. The faster pace of life is reflected in the musical programming. People don't relax between tandas. Men wipe the sweat off their brows at the table rather than retiring to the men's room as they used to.

Tandas or sets are not restricted to the ballrooms of Buenos Aires. They were standard for every ballroom in the United States during the 1930s and 1940s. The musicians needed a break from playing, so the orchestra leader called out the number of the charts for each set, usually three of the same dance. Men signed dance cards of the women with whom they wanted to dance in advance. The ballrooms, like the Aragon in Chicago, were so large that there was no nodding going on for dances. Men had to know where the women were seated in the ballroom and find them for the set they promised to dance.

The benefit of tandas is having four dances with one partner. It is important to pay attention to how many tunes have been played in the tanda so that you don't end up dancing the last half of the last tune. It is advisable to wait until the second or third tune of a tanda when dancing with someone for the first time. This is standard practice for milongueros.

When a woman is invited at the beginning of the tanda, the man dances four tunes with her. If a woman is uncomfortable with her partner for any reason, she says thank you and he escorts her off the floor. On rare occasions a man will cut a tanda short at a milonga.

The way the tanda is programmed makes a difference. The first tune has to motivate dancers to want to dance. This is the DJ's most important task. If the best tune of the tanda is the last, then those sitting out will not be dancing.

Tandas (sets) are a way of organizing the dancing. Otherwise, people would be walking off the floor after each dance trying to find a partner for the next dance. The system established sixty years ago is used in Buenos Aires because it works.

You can read more about this on my blog.

[joegrohens]

Hey, welcome to DF, joe.

Thanks, Steve.

Hi everybody.

-joe

[Captain Jep]

Hi Joe

Nice to see you here (I remember your website and vids from pre YT days :) )

Re the OP :

I probably dance less because of tandas too , but that's OK. I've been dancing long enough I dont have to - nor do I want to - dance every tune at a milonga.

The only downside for me is when I lose count of where we are in the tanda ;) The best solution then is to find someone you love dancing with and dance with them into the next tanda.

[newbie]

If I feel like dancing to a particular tune or in a particular moment, and I realize that it is the last tune of a tanda, I sit the tune out instead.

Usually the DJ will organize his tandas to have tunes of the same family in one tanda. So, if there is a tune that you like, you will hear it coming. Say, if we like "Pobre Flor" and the DJ starts a tanda with "Sonar y nada mas", we know that "Pobre Flor" might be the next tune.

[Dave Bailey]

I’d like to start up a meandering
"That much is certain" - Spock, Star Trek IV :)

Why do we use them? Is it because it’s how they do it in BA?
Probably. But Jan has covered that well, so I'll talk about it from an "outside of BA" context.

Are there benefits that I am unaware off?
Probably - but I don't know what you don't know... :)

I don't have a problem with Tandas and Cortinas, I think they work.

When you consider that an average Tango track is probably only 150 seconds, it'd be nuts to try to establish a connection and enjoy a dance in that time. Hell, I've seen some people who seem to stand around and chat to each other for most of that time... So it helps to have a convention that you generally allow a partner a certain minimum amount of time to dance.

This works well with the 3 or 4-dance rule, also. In fact, the 3-dance rule doesn't really work so well in non-tanda environments in my opinion; they reinforce each other.

That said, there are some disadvantages - there's far less opportunity to mingle, for example, and you're likely to find yourself sitting out more.

But overall I prefer tandas - the system works in BA, and I think it works outside of BA also.

[Peaches]

Meh. It is what it is. Annoying at times, great at others. Some places have them, some don't. *shrug*

I just think about it most of the time. It's dancing. Whatever.

[bordertangoman]

"That much is certain" - Spock, Star Trek IV :)




When you consider that an average Tango track is probably only 150 seconds,.

well 160 seconds to be exact. at a tempo of 60bpm 5 movements of 8 bars of 4/4
but some have an introduction of 32 seconds ( ie 8 Bars)

it'd be nuts to try to establish a connection and enjoy a dance in that time. ..

What a pessimist!

But overall I prefer tandas - the system works in BA, and I think it works outside of BA also.

agreed

[dchester]

I actually dance less because of them. If I feel like dancing to a particular tune or in a particular moment, and I realize that it is the last tune of a tanda, I sit the tune out instead. I only enjoy milongas occasionally and I many only want to do one or two. If a milonga tanda begins and I feel like dancing, but don’t want to dance four milongas, I sit out the whole tanda.

What are your thoughts?
I often will sit out the first (and sometimes even the second) milonga in a tanda (unless it's a song I really like). It gives me a chance to take a break. Also, after dancing one song and the tanda ends, she may ask you for the next tanda.

[LittleLight]

I have been to milongas with and without. I prefer with, as I am ridiculously nervous dancing with a new person and like to have the opportunity to settle, get used to the person, trust them and let go. Obviously, if you wait untill the third tango to dance with someone new then that won't work so well, but actually, I find that most at milongas I go to even strangers ask you for the full or at least half a tanda.

[AndaBien]

Meh. It is what it is. Annoying at times, great at others. Some places have them, some don't. *shrug*

I just think about it most of the time. It's dancing. Whatever.

A tree or a rock is what it is independently of me, and my efforts won't change that. As a DJ, tandas and cortinas at my milongas are what they are only because I make them be that way. I could change that fact. I merely wanted some information about reasons I should adhere to the custom.

[Ampster]

A tree or a rock is what it is independently of me, and my efforts won't change that. As a DJ, tandas and cortinas at my milongas are what they are only because I make them be that way. I could change that fact. I merely wanted some information about reasons I should adhere to the custom.

IMHO, its just one of those things that make the tango experience..."Tango." Otherwise, it would be just like any other dance.

[Peaches]

A tree or a rock is what it is independently of me, and my efforts won't change that. As a DJ, tandas and cortinas at my milongas are what they are only because I make them be that way. I could change that fact. I merely wanted some information about reasons I should adhere to the custom.And all I'm saying is that I have no preference. Both systems have their merits and issues.

I thought in your original post you'd asked for others' thoughts on the matter. Silly me for responding. I didn't realize you only wanted some thoughts and not others.

ffs

[bordertangoman]

At a recent milonga the DJ was playing some nice music as cortinas, and you could see people's feet tapping and them itching to dance to it...but then another traditional 20s/30s/40s tango would surface like the great white shark in Jaws and drag the milonga downwards........

[newbie]

I saw this a couple of times, bad DJs using cortinas more dançable than the tandas, e.g Crocodile Rock as a cortina, cut after 45 sec and followed by a soporific Di Sarli tanda. But I saw the opposite too, the DJ playing the beginning of a salsa tune as a cortina, and after seeing the audience starting to dance the DJ played another two salsas.

[tangotime]

.snip...

A larger variety of music was played for dancing in the 1950s than today in the milongas of BsAs. It included ,salsa,









Not possible.. it wasnt around then.. maybe you mean Mambo ?

[AndaBien]

And all I'm saying is that I have no preference. Both systems have their merits and issues....

Sorry about that. I misunderstood your comment to mean they exist, so why talk about it.

[Steve Pastor]

At a recent milonga the DJ was playing some nice music as cortinas, and you could see people's feet tapping and them itching to dance to it...but then another traditional 20s/30s/40s tango would surface like the great white shark in Jaws and drag the milonga downwards........

In similar vein, I was at a milonga where they played "traditional 20s/30s/40s tango". I don't know if there was problem with the sound system or the recordings having been ripped from old records, mp3d, whatever. It was pretty low quality, nonetheless.
My date and I went about 10 blocks away where a live "big" band wa playing swing and I was blown away before we even set foot inside the building.

Read again what Jan wrote.
It was customary to have two orchestras alternating during dances--one for jazz and one for tango. Many of the tango orchestra leaders also had jazz orchestras -- DJ Daniel Borelli shared this tidbit with me recently. Each orchestra played for 30 minutes on stage. Those who went to dance tango danced--no tandas or cortinas. Then the jazz orchestra played for a half hour. They alternated during the night since no orchestra could play several hours for dancing without a break.

Tandas originated when recordings were used in the downtown confiterias for the evening dances. A larger variety of music was played for dancing in the 1950s than today in the milongas of BsAs. It included jazz, bolero, tango, vals, milonga, salsa, cumbia.

So, here I am again, wondering which "authentic" experience we are trying to recreate.

(Jan writes also about "ballrooms" in the US. Let's just say there was a lot of variety in the dance experience here, too, rather than things being the same everywhere.)

[jantango]

There is a difference when dancing to live music or recorded music.

Tandas originated when recordings were used in the downtown confiterias in the 1950s.

Today when an orchestra performs during a milonga, they perform no more than 45 minutes without breaks. The audience applauds after each tango. Dancers stay on the floor as long as they want to or enjoying watching the orchestra perform.

Once again, the velocity of life in the USA and need for instant gratification may never embrace the traditions that have accompanied tango in BsAs since the 1940s.

[tangonuevo]

...
Tandas originated when recordings were used in the downtown confiterias in the 1950s....

To quote Sergio Vandekier (from Mar Del Plata)

"There was a time, very early in tango history (1880 - 1920) when tango was danced in "pirigundines" also called "academias". These places were situated in the periphery of the city and required special permits from the City hall to function. Pirigundines continued to function 'till not too long ago although with different characteristics from the original ones.

Those places, where music was played and hired women were available to dance with, were patronized by lonely males in search of fun and perhaps some romance.

They normally were required to buy a ticket called "lata" (tin), because they were made of tin. Those tickets allowed the male to dance a set number of tangos, milongas or valses, or a mixture of them. For example: three tangos, one milonga and one vals. The male client gave the "ticket" to the female dancer and started dancing with her.

The "Cortina" a music different from tango, announced the end of the set or "tanda". Couples separated.

To dance another tanda another ticket had to be given to the lady. This sequence continued during the evening till two or three in the morning.

There are expresions in our coloquial language of Buenos Aires that refer to certain elements of those days.

"Tener la lata" (to hold the tin) : It means to wait a long time. " Fui al medico y tuve una lata the una hora " (I went to the doctor and had to wait for one hour).

This is a reference to the time when a man had to wait for the lady, tin in hand, till she became available to dance with him. He would say then "tuve la lata" for a long time till I could dance with her."