New Viennese Waltz Steps? (ex. IDSF)

[DanceMentor]

I was hearing that there may be some new Viennese Waltz steps that are allowed in Standard such as in IDSF. I belief Glenn Weiss lectured on this at nationals? Anyone have any info on this?

[LT]

Natural Pivot, Reverse Pivot, and Left Wisk... there is more detailed info about it in the USA Dance rule book on page 79...

[DanceMentor]

Does that mean we can do this at NDCA comps as well?

[LT]

Not sure... they can only speak for themselves (USA Dance and IDSF comps)... recently asked my teacher and she said if these steps are done well, she would never mark someone down, but she also assured me some judges would frown on it... :( Anyone have insight on NDCA's position?

[DanceMentor]

Here is the text from the rulebook:

Special Notice:
In any USA Dance Competition of Novice / Pre-Championship / Championship and any IDSF
Open Competition or Championship a couple may dance the additional figures of:
1. Natural Pivot. ( 2 steps to a bar) Commence facing DC, having danced steps 1-6 of a Natural Turn
Continue into a second bar of Natural Pivot or a Natural Turn
a. This figure may not be danced for more than two consecutive bars (IDSF rule)
2. Reverse Pivot.( 2 steps to a bar) Commence facing DW, having danced a Reverse Turn Continue
with a Reverse Turn or Reverse Fleckerl
a. This figure may be danced over one bar only (IDSF rule). It is suggested as most suited for a
musical change before the Reverse Fleckerl.
3. Left Whisk. (1 bar) This is not the Left Whisk as written in the Technique Books as it commences LF
to side on beat 1. It is used to replace the Contra Check as the link between the Reverse and
Natural Fleckerls
4. Contra Check. Although the Contra check is not one of the new figures it is now also possible to
dance the figure over two bars of music

[DanceMentor]

On the reverse, do you commence after 1-3 of reverse or 4-6 of reverse?

[Joe]

Presumably you mean "on the reverse pivot," and since it gives the beginning alignment for the end of a complete reverse turn, i.e. facing DW, it should be after the 4-6 of the reverse.

[ACtenDance]

So to clarify, open level viennese waltz is restricted to dancing ONLY the syllabus figures plus the aforementioned additional figures in USAD/IDSF events? I never realized that

[DanceMentor]

Presumably you mean "on the reverse pivot," and since it gives the beginning alignment for the end of a complete reverse turn, i.e. facing DW, it should be after the 4-6 of the reverse.

So after 4-6 of a reverse turn, the man would be ready to step forward on the LF into an overspin followed by a reverse rivot (2 steps to a bar). But could he also dance a reverse pivot followed by an overspin after 1-3 of a reverse?
(a strict read tells me no)

[VTDancer]

We attended the session at the Nationals that covered this. Victor Fung and Anastasia Muravyova actually taught the session. Glenn Weiss assisted. I am not sure whether it would be permissable to dance the Reverse Pivot after 1,2,3 of the Reverse Turn. They demonstrated it after 4,5,6. The timing on both the Natural and Reverse Pivots was shown as 2 beats on the forward step (leader) and 1 beat on the backward.

[Joe]

So after 4-6 of a reverse turn, the man would be ready to step forward on the LF into an overspin followed by a reverse rivot (2 steps to a bar). But could he also dance a reverse pivot followed by an overspin after 1-3 of a reverse?
(a strict read tells me no)
What is this overspin you speak of?

[White Chacha]

Not that I carry any weight in the upper echelons of the standard dance community, but I'm not in favor of sullying VW with additional figures. The dance's current simplicity allows one out of the five standard dances to be fairly objectively judged based on the DANCING, and that's a good thing.

[Dancebug]

I find this a little strange. Aren't dancers allowed to do any kind of figures in the open level as long as they do not lose the flair of a specific dance? But saying these figures are allowed in VW now seems to imply that there are restrictions to what a couples can do even in open levels. Am I missing something?

BTW I have seen European dancers do pivots during VW long before this announcement.

[dancelvr]

Not that I carry any weight in the upper echelons of the standard dance community, but I'm not in favor of sullying VW with additional figures. The dance's current simplicity allows one out of the five standard dances to be fairly objectively judged based on the DANCING, and that's a good thing.

I completely agree with this...not that my opinion carries any weight at all....but still....

:-)

[DanceMentor]

We attended the session at the Nationals that covered this. Victor Fung and Anastasia Muravyova actually taught the session. Glenn Weiss assisted. I am not sure whether it would be permissable to dance the Reverse Pivot after 1,2,3 of the Reverse Turn. They demonstrated it after 4,5,6. The timing on both the Natural and Reverse Pivots was shown as 2 beats on the forward step (leader) and 1 beat on the backward.

Thanks for clarifying. That makes sense.

@Joe - maybe I didn't use the right word, but I was referring to the forward step of the reverse pivot. I always though of the backward step being the reverse pivot, and the forward step being called an overspin. Maybe I have my terms mixed up. Feel free to correct me.

[Josh]

The forward and backward moving persons are both doing a reverse pivot; I think it's only in the context of being after a double reverse spin (or some other spin) that you can "overspin."

[Angel HI]

^ My thought, as well.

[DanceMentor]

Yea, makes sense, and maybe an overspin is from an "up" position only?

[tbrennen]

Actually, these figures have been allowed by the IDSF for quite a few years and, by extension, USA Dance. If I had to guess, I would say it was about 5-7 years ago the IDSF introduced the additional allowed figures. I have seen international competitors doing the figures every once in a while but not often. I have not heard of any professional organization recognizing them.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

WHAT? Where is it written...??? (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=26183)

[White Chacha]

Actually, these figures have been allowed by the IDSF for quite a few years and, by extension, USA Dance. If I had to guess, I would say it was about 5-7 years ago the IDSF introduced the additional allowed figures. I have seen international competitors doing the figures every once in a while but not often. I have not heard of any professional organization recognizing them.

From what I've seen in IDSF Worlds videos, couples will sometimes do the additional figures during their solo vw round, but do not perform them during the group round.

[Dancebug]

From what I've seen in IDSF Worlds videos, couples will sometimes do the additional figures during their solo vw round, but do not perform them during the group round.
I have seen them during the group rounds and dance ons.