Use of the stomach vacuum in Standard dances

[vcolfari]

This is a topic that interests me very much. To what extent do you use the navel to the spine technique (similar to the old school "stomach vacuum" exercise favored by bodybuilders) while dancing? This requires considerable strength in the transverse abdominus muscle, which can be extremely difficult to exercise. Is this part of your dancing? Do you attempt to maintain this position throughout each dance or do you adjust it as you dance for various effects? Do dancers at the highest level have a tremendous ability to create this deep movement/position at will? Is this one of the challenging aspects of dancing that separates the best dancers from the rest? Why do you use this: To create space for your partner, to reduce the curvature in the lower spine, to prevent sides from dropping, to assist in creating diagonal length in the body?

[Angelo]

I never do this and I have never been instructed to do it. I am intrigued as to what the potential benefits might be. I my own case I prefer a "bracing" technique to stabilize the lumbar spine, but it is most likely due to habits picked up from other activities. Every time i have ever attempted a stomch vacuum I found that it interferes with my breathing, but maybe I wasn't doing it correctly.

[j_alexandra]

<snip>This requires considerable strength in the transverse abdominus muscle, which can be extremely difficult to exercise. <snip>

You're kidding, right? PM me if you want some easy and simple (non-Pilates) TVA exercises.

[hereKittyKitty]

They still use this exercise and talk about it on bodybuilding forums. I wouldn't think of doing this during the course of the dance, but as a supplemental exercise to help strengthen the core. As we all know, the stronger the core, the better.

[Larinda McRaven]

I think navel to shoulder blades.

[latingal]

I am definitely not a standard expert, but I have danced with a standard leader who has great control of this type of movement and I find it wonderful to follow. It seems be a great tool in expanding the movement/line and expressing the music.

[jerseydancer]

we were told to never squeeze the stomach, it will proven correct breezing. we practice filling the back, by not squeezing the abs, the "fat" abs suppose to help making the most powerful movement, but that one is very hard to do, so for now we are practicing to not fall back at the lower back and keep the back strong, long, and full

[skwiggy]

I'm not familiar with the stomach vacuum exercises, but if it involves a navel to spine technique as you describe then I absolutely use this in my dancing. Similar to how Larinda describes navel to shoulder blades, what I have heard that works for me to think about is taking my belly to my bra strap. I realize this image may only work for ladies. ;)

To answer your question about whether it is maintained, I would say it is constantly used and r e f r e s h ed. Trying to hold it would be extremely difficult and it would be bound to fade. It also would not produce the same dynamic that a constant renewal does. I try to r e f r e s h it constantly -- when I move, when I rise, when I lower -- CONSTANTLY.

And to answer the question on why to use it, the answer is really for everything! It aids balance, provides power in movement, invites the partner, keeps movement lighter, increases stretch through the body, helps with alignment of the body, creates space... the list goes on and on.

On a personal note, this has been the hardest part about coming back to dancing after having a baby almost 8 months ago. Building back up my abdominal strength, awareness and usage has been a huge hurdle, and I'm just sort of starting to feel like I'm not completely hopeless in this area. Lacking those things has manifested itself in a way that makes all of my dancing more difficult for me, and I imagine for my partner as well.

[vcolfari]

I think navel to shoulder blades.

Sorry I disappeared from this thread. I wasn't able to access the site for the last day. Thanks, Larinda. Yes, this is a nice description and closer to how I think about it.

[vcolfari]

I think one of the confusing concepts about using the abdominal muscles in dancing is whether one should aim for bracing/contraction or retraction/sucking. I have been taught the latter.

[vcolfari]

I'm not familiar with the stomach vacuum exercises, but if it involves a navel to spine technique as you describe then I absolutely use this in my dancing. Similar to how Larinda describes navel to shoulder blades, what I have heard that works for me to think about is taking my belly to my bra strap. I realize this image may only work for ladies. ;)

To answer your question about whether it is maintained, I would say it is constantly used and r e f r e s h ed. Trying to hold it would be extremely difficult and it would be bound to fade. It also would not produce the same dynamic that a constant renewal does. I try to r e f r e s h it constantly -- when I move, when I rise, when I lower -- CONSTANTLY.

And to answer the question on why to use it, the answer is really for everything! It aids balance, provides power in movement, invites the partner, keeps movement lighter, increases stretch through the body, helps with alignment of the body, creates space... the list goes on and on.

On a personal note, this has been the hardest part about coming back to dancing after having a baby almost 8 months ago. Building back up my abdominal strength, awareness and usage has been a huge hurdle, and I'm just sort of starting to feel like I'm not completely hopeless in this area. Lacking those things has manifested itself in a way that makes all of my dancing more difficult for me, and I imagine for my partner as well.

Thank you for your response, Skwiggy. This idea of not maintaining but instead constantly moving the abdominal muscles toward the spine (or bra strap/shoulders) throughout the dance is really interesting. Do you try to time it with certain types of movements (e.g., promenade position, shaping, lowering, rising, outside partner) or do you synchronize it with your breathing or the music?

[skwiggy]

I think one of the confusing concepts about using the abdominal muscles in dancing is whether one should aim for bracing/contraction or retraction/sucking. I have been taught the latter.

I'm not sure how you are distinguishing between these two. Can you elaborate on the distinction? Although to me the term "bracing" evokes images of something stiff and held. I think the aim should be for something more fluid and dynamic.

[skwiggy]

Thank you for your response, Skwiggy. This idea of not maintaining but instead constantly moving the abdominal muscles toward the spine (or bra strap/shoulders) throughout the dance is really interesting. Do you try to time it with certain types of movements (e.g., promenade position, shaping, lowering, rising, outside partner) or do you synchronize it with your breathing or the music?

I try to renew it when I rise, when I lower, when I change positions, when I increase a stretch, and when I initiate movement in any direction. So, pretty much all the time. :)

[vcolfari]

I'm not sure how you are distinguishing between these two. Can you elaborate on the distinction? Although to me the term "bracing" evokes images of something stiff and held. I think the aim should be for something more fluid and dynamic.

Yes, bracing meaning stiff and held (which I don't think one should use when dancing). I think of bracing as what is experienced during an exercise like a plank (or most weight training exercises) and retraction as bringing the navel in and up (which is almost never done except during dancing or trying to look thin at the beach).

[skwiggy]

Described that way, I definitely would go for retraction, not bracing. Although bracing exercises like planks are fantastic for building the strength for really effective retractions while dancing. ;)

[jerseydancer]

I think navel to shoulder blades.

this is very interesting feel. makes back much longer, cool. how could i open those shoulder blades even more, i feel i should stretch more, but do not know how without breaking at the lower back

[pruthe]

we were told to never squeeze the stomach, it will proven correct breezing. we practice filling the back, by not squeezing the abs, the "fat" abs suppose to help making the most powerful movement, but that one is very hard to do, so for now we are practicing to not fall back at the lower back and keep the back strong, long, and full

Well, to add another approach, what if one pulls naval to spine while filling out lower back. At least for man, to give nice vertical look. Not sure about lady and if different approach better.

[samina]

i do stomach vacuum exercises all the time with "breathplay" breathing techniques and yoga. cool stuff.

but even tho i've experienced that doing those exercises changes my physique and energy system in a way that improves what i "have" to dance, i would never combine that with the dancing itself...

[skwiggy]

i do stomach vacuum exercises all the time with "breathplay" breathing techniques and yoga. cool stuff.

but even tho i've experienced that doing those exercises changes my physique and energy system in a way that improves what i "have" to dance, i would never combine that with the dancing itself...

Can you explain more about what stomach vacuum exercises are, and why you would not combine them with dancing? Although why you would not use them in dance may become readily apparent to me once I know what they actually are. ;)

[vcolfari]

Here is one example of the exercise: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ms-fit5.htm

I wasn't suggesting that this exact exercise should be used while dancing, but rather
comparing it to the retraction of the abdominal muscles used while dancing.

[samina]

Can you explain more about what stomach vacuum exercises are, and why you would not combine them with dancing? Although why you would not use them in dance may become readily apparent to me once I know what they actually are. ;)

i know of this in the context of yoga (google for vids)... it's an ancient technique for massaging the internal organs. but i have found that, in the context of using it with rhythmic breathplay techniques where you focus on breathing out while drawing your navel tightly to your spine, while activating your "mula bandha" (creating "lift" in your perineum), tipping your pelvis up, lengthing your spine, lifting tops of your ears to the sky... incorporating the stomach vacuum into rhythmic breathing circulates more blood and energy to the spine and through the heart.

narrows the waist... increases stamina... good things.

i don't feel i've nearly tapped into exploring the power of working the body this way. i got into it so much when i was competing. got way out of practice and noticed a huge retrograde motion in my fitness & the narrowness of my waist. i have coincidentally started up again.

[skwiggy]

Thank you both for the explanation. I think I get the idea. Seems to me like the main difference is that when you do the stomach vacuum exercises it looks like you want to create a resistance in order to increase strength. When I use my stomach muscles in dance it creates more lift and power rather than resistance. Basically putting the strength to good productive use rather than just simply exercising to increase it. Still thinking about this. I'm very interested in this thread as I have been contemplating my abdominals and their impact on my dancing a lot lately. ;)

[samina]

when i do stomach vacuum exercises, i don't resist *outwards*, tho... it is a total drawing into the spine, with a tipping up of the pelvis. it is a powerful lower-ab exercise. and if you moves things about while you do it, it becomes quite a dynamic exercise.

good for anyone, but certainly excellent post-baby. :)

[skwiggy]

and if you moves things about while you do it, it becomes quite a dynamic exercise.


what things do you move about?

[samina]

well, it's difficult and weird-feeling at first, but you can do a couple things once you have the vacuum going:

1) you can start "pumping" by forcibly drawing your navel even tighter to your spine. vary the way you do it by envisioning it going straight back, then downward, then upward.

2) you can also, with the vacuum in place, start isolations of your upper body over the vacuum. or you can start to fluctuate the vacuumed lower area in a kind of vertical wave. some people even get good at doing a horizontal wave. not i.

3) you can also do pelvic tip-ups while in the vacuum. also helpful to curve the upper torso forward at the same time, as if trying to kiss your navel -- stretches both the upper and lower backs. then release and do again, etc.

just a few ideas. key is to play. but IME it's more than just muscular exercise... it increases blood flow to the local area, thru the spine, as well as the heart. and really does strengthen lower abs without doing crunches or pilates work.

[btfgus]

To answer your question about whether it is maintained, I would say it is constantly used and r e f r e s h ed.

Lovely!

From a leading perspective I use this action as a vacuum to invite the follower into the desired space. It feels nice as an instigation of the leaders backwards movement and for the followers shape.