French Disco Swing

[swinginstyle]

Does anyone know about France's Disco Swing championship? My ex-boss flies to France to compete in this event, since he can't win squat in the US. I'll even take information about disco swing. I'm really curious and I don't know French, so I can't navigate their sites.

[HepcatBob]

Disco swing? Just the thought of that combination really makes me want to http://www.yehoodi.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_pukeymae.gif.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Sagitta]

Are we talking about hustle?

[DWise1]

As soon as I saw that title, I thought: "You've got to be kidding! Only the French ... ". But then I Google'd on "Disco Swing" and the very first hit was a site in Switzerland (and in the German Kantonen, to boot). And most of the hits were for sites in German.

According to a page on The US Swing Dance Server at http://www.swingcraze.com/ussds/Hustle/hustle.html:

Disco Swing

A catchall name, it can be any of several Hustle dances - Hustle, 3CountHustle, NewYorkHustle.


According to Street Swing ( http://www.streetswing.com/histmain/z3hustl1.htm ) it was an early name for the Hustle.

It appears to be the European name for the Hustle. Makes sense, since in German "Hüstle" would be a little cough, not a very good name for a social dance.

PS
Maybe if you were to post the site's URL then somebody here who can read French could help answer some of your questions.

[pygmalion]

Are you taking about Ceroc/Leroc, or is disco swing an entirely different animal? :?:

[Underfoot]

Google has a function that will translate a foreign language site for you.
(a little imperfect, but it lets you get the gist of most things...)

You can find it here:
http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en

I use it occassionally when I get lost in a subject that doesn't fit into English Pop Culture.

Good Luck!

P.S. - While I don't like the hustle, I think Disco & Swing would make a really nifty combo... The girls might get dizzy after a night of it though...

[pygmalion]

Oops! I just reacted, without actually reading through DWise1's post.

Lots of controversy about the hustle as a swing dance. The music doesn't swing, so many swing purists X hustle off the list of swing dances. But, apparently, it was derived from swing.

Hmm. Must google and find out more. :roll:

[Vince A]

d nice has said on the DFs that Hustle IS NOT swing . . . and I partially agree. The music certainly is not swing, but in many places, the Hustle IS considered swing. Moreover, in several Swing-only competitions that I attend, the Hustle is always an integral part of that competition.

[SDsalsaguy]

Many Hustle dancers also consider it to be a derivative of mambo... which makes sense since mambo and swing are both jazz based genres.

[pygmalion]

d nice has said on the DFs that Hustle IS NOT swing . . . and I partially agree. The music certainly is not swing, but in many places, the Hustle IS considered swing. Moreover, in several Swing-only competitions that I attend, the Hustle is always an integral part of that competition.

I saw a couple good articles explaining it. Now, if I could only remember where. :oops: :lol:

[pygmalion]

Okay, so, back to LeRoc (Ceroc or Jive) Here's a link that explains why I jumped to the conclusion that's what we were talking about. Check out the synopsis of dance development in the 80's and 90's.


http://www.howtojive.com/intro-history.htm

[pygmalion]

Okay, so I let google translate three or four of those pages you were talking about DWise1, and it looks like you're right. There are thousands of French, German, and Swiss (and maybe other) people calling hustle Disco Swing. (Maybe hustle doesn't translate? :? )

The reason I've come to that conclusion is that there are separate references to disco swing versus rock-n-roll (which I believe is another name for jive/LeRoc/Ceroc.)

[pygmalion]

d nice has said on the DFs that Hustle IS NOT swing . . . and I partially agree. The music certainly is not swing, but in many places, the Hustle IS considered swing. Moreover, in several Swing-only competitions that I attend, the Hustle is always an integral part of that competition.

I saw a couple good articles explaining it. Now, if I could only remember where. :oops: :lol:

All right, Vince, I googled (and also asked Jeeves LOL) and I found that, as you said, hustle, swing, and, often, C&W dance are grouped together. I still haven't found those old articles on "swing" music versus swing dances, though. I'll keep looking.

[jon]

All right, Vince, I googled (and also asked Jeeves LOL) and I found that, as you said, hustle, swing, and, often, C&W dance are grouped together.

Ah yes. I remember a CW teacher doing a hustle class who confidently explained to us the true origin of WCS - derived from Hustle in the 1970s.

I don't know any hustle dancers who identify what they do as a swing dance. Doubtless some exist but I suspect, not many.

[pygmalion]

Ah yes. I remember a CW teacher doing a hustle class who confidently explained to us the true origin of WCS - derived from Hustle in the 1970s. You crack me up! Looks like that teacher should have googled before shooting his/her mouth off. Either that, or asked Buddy Schwimmer. Or anybody else, for that matter! LOL.



I don't know any hustle dancers who identify what they do as a swing dance. Doubtless some exist but I suspect, not many. Every dance community is different, jon. I don't know how the people in the C&W community characterize swing and/or hustle. I just know that the comps and exhibitions are often done together. What they're saying or how they're explaining any connection, I don't know. Shrug.

[swinginstyle]

Do you think this would be an IDO comp in France? I've had a difficult time finding information through google.

[lily]

Hi, I live in France and I've never heard of Disco Swing. We dance Rock 'n' Roll. It's not Ceroc/Leroc either as I've seen and danced that in England and although it's similar to watch, it is not the same to dance to at all.

I wish I knew what Rock 'n' Roll dancing was 'really' called. I've been told that it must be East Coast Swing danced in a slot but as I've never seen East Coast Swing I can't say.

There's not much choice here in Paris. When you start dancing, you learn Rock 'n' Roll. Most people stay there but some will go on to learn Lindy, West Coast Swing, Balboa or Boogie. On most dance floors however, it's quite rare to see anyone dancing anything but Rock 'n' Roll.

I can't wait to be in NY and see what real swing dancing in the original version looks like 8)

[pygmalion]

Good luck. You'll definitely see a version of swing dancing. But who can say what's real or original, these days. Maybe, when you get to the States, you can find a Frankie Manning workshop and ask him about lindy hop. Lindy hop appears to have a tight connection to its roots, even decades removed from its beginning.

But that doesn't mean all the swing descendants aren't real. They're just ... derivative. :wink: :lol:

[lily]

Good luck. You'll definitely see a version of swing dancing. But who can say what's real or original, these days. Maybe, when you get to the States, you can find a Frankie Manning workshop and ask him about lindy hop. Lindy hop appears to have a tight connection to its roots, even decades removed from its beginning.

But that doesn't mean all the swing descendants aren't real. They're just ... derivative. :wink: :lol:

Thanks! I really like what I've seen of Lindy and I've taken a few classes which I've enjoyed a great deal. I see it as a completely different dance (and I love learning new dances!) rather than "adding Lindy steps to Rock 'n' Roll" which is how it tends to be viewed over here :?

I'm really looking forward to learning more Lindy and dancing it more often than is possible in Paris. I will *really* miss dancing Rock 'n' Roll though if I can't find anywhere to dance it :( Perhaps if I can find somewhere where Boogie is danced, either to a 6 or an 8 beat, that will be almost the same! 8)

[Sagitta]

I don't ever mind learning a new dance. If I'm around I would be happy to fumble through this one with you. :wink: :)

[pygmalion]

I'm pretty sure I've seen a Frankie Manning workshop schedule on the web. Let me take a look and see if I can find it again. 8)

[lily]

I don't ever mind learning a new dance. If I'm around I would be happy to fumble through this one with you. :wink: :)

Wow thanks! I did try to take some beginner classes in Rock 'n' Roll to learn the men's steps (as they're called here. Rather than lead or follow :roll: ) Two schools I tried just refused to let a girl dance the men's steps explaining that the other girls in the class would feel ill at ease dancing with a girl. When I pointed put that they have female teachers I was told that was different because she was a teacher. Oh ok :shock:

I had better luck at a third school who actually let me take two classes. But when I turned up for the third the teacher said to me, "Thanks but I don't need your help tonight". I was confused and left. I hadn't been trying to "help out", just learning to dance like the other students.

Anyway, I wanted to be able to learn just a few steps before moving to NY so that I could show anyone interested what French Rock 'n' Roll looks like. At the momentI know very well what I do as a 'danseuse' but I have no idea what the 'danseur' does to get me to do what I do!!!

[Sagitta]

I'm sure I could figure out some of the stuff. :wink: :)

[lily]

Really? Cool! It's true that if I show what I do, a good dancer could maybe figure out what the lead would do. I've only ever tried that in England with a guy who'd done a bit of Ceroc and a little Lindy and he couldn't figure out at all how to make it work. It was so frustrating because it's very simple really, but I couldn't explain because I don't know the men's steps or moves...

[HepcatBob]

I'm pretty sure I've seen a Frankie Manning workshop schedule on the web. Let me take a look and see if I can find it again. 8)

Here it is.

http://www.savoystyle.com/schedule.html

[HepcatBob]

I can't wait to be in NY and see what real swing dancing in the original version looks like 8)

If you can get up to Herrang, Sweden during July you will see a lot of it. They've got some world class instructors there.

http://www.herrang.com/

[DWise1]

I don't ever mind learning a new dance. If I'm around I would be happy to fumble through this one with you. :wink: :)

Wow thanks! I did try to take some beginner classes in Rock 'n' Roll to learn the men's steps (as they're called here. Rather than lead or follow :roll: ) Two schools I tried just refused to let a girl dance the men's steps explaining that the other girls in the class would feel ill at ease dancing with a girl. When I pointed put that they have female teachers I was told that was different because she was a teacher. Oh ok :shock:

I had better luck at a third school who actually let me take two classes. But when I turned up for the third the teacher said to me, "Thanks but I don't need your help tonight". I was confused and left. I hadn't been trying to "help out", just learning to dance like the other students.

Anyway, I wanted to be able to learn just a few steps before moving to NY so that I could show anyone interested what French Rock 'n' Roll looks like. At the momentI know very well what I do as a 'danseuse' but I have no idea what the 'danseur' does to get me to do what I do!!!
Cultural differences and the sensitivities they engender can be mind-boggling. Movies made in the US don't have much trouble showing female complete frontal nudity, but it made the news recently when a male leading actor was upset because his complete frontal nude scene was cut because the men in the audience were uncomfortable about it. On the other hand, in a French comedy we saw (English title: "My Wife is an Actress") in one scene after having had an argument with her husband over an upcoming nude scene, she agreed with the director to do the scene only if everybody else on the set was naked -- she had intended it to be an unreasonable demand, but the director took her up on it -- and her husband, wanting to apologize for the argument, happens to visit her on the set when they are filming the nude scene. They made sure to keep the women strategically covered, but made absolutely no attempt to cover the men. It struck us as a strange difference in attitudes and odd that the French would appear to be so "up tight" about something that we "puritanical" Americans wouldn't think twice about (OK, maybe twice, but rarely a third time).

But back on topic. Here (USA/California), I've seen several women learning to lead in Lindy class as part of the regular rotation and I haven't seen any problems nor indication of anyone being embarassed by it. On the other hand, in 1.5 years of those classes I've only seen one guy try to learn to follow and he only lasted that one hour.

I can think of one possible solution to your problem, but I don't know how comfortable you would be with it. Here in the Los Angeles area there's a group, "Shall We Dance?", that offers (or offered; lindyhopping.com's listings tend to be out-of-date) gay and lesbian dance parties. Here's the key ( http://www.lindyhopping.com/danceplace.html ): "You don't have to be gay to attend, just open-minded, and she welcomes heterosexual couples where, for instance, the woman might choose to lead and the gent to follow." So if you're comfortable with the social setting, you might try to find something similar in Paris where you could learn and practice the role of danseur.

[lily]

I can't wait to be in NY and see what real swing dancing in the original version looks like 8)

If you can get up to Herrang, Sweden during July you will see a lot of it. They've got some world class instructors there.

http://www.herrang.com/

I've heard of that venue and I'd love to go but I can't - I'll be on a dance holiday in Greece. I can't wait - Boogie, Rock and Ballroom lessons all day and then free dancing in the evening!!! I suppose I might just go to the beach a bit too 8)

[lily]

I don't ever mind learning a new dance. If I'm around I would be happy to fumble through this one with you. :wink: :)

Wow thanks! I did try to take some beginner classes in Rock 'n' Roll to learn the men's steps (as they're called here. Rather than lead or follow :roll: ) Two schools I tried just refused to let a girl dance the men's steps explaining that the other girls in the class would feel ill at ease dancing with a girl. When I pointed put that they have female teachers I was told that was different because she was a teacher. Oh ok :shock:

I had better luck at a third school who actually let me take two classes. But when I turned up for the third the teacher said to me, "Thanks but I don't need your help tonight". I was confused and left. I hadn't been trying to "help out", just learning to dance like the other students.

Anyway, I wanted to be able to learn just a few steps before moving to NY so that I could show anyone interested what French Rock 'n' Roll looks like. At the momentI know very well what I do as a 'danseuse' but I have no idea what the 'danseur' does to get me to do what I do!!!
Cultural differences and the sensitivities they engender can be mind-boggling. Movies made in the US don't have much trouble showing female complete frontal nudity, but it made the news recently when a male leading actor was upset because his complete frontal nude scene was cut because the men in the audience were uncomfortable about it. On the other hand, in a French comedy we saw (English title: "My Wife is an Actress") in one scene after having had an argument with her husband over an upcoming nude scene, she agreed with the director to do the scene only if everybody else on the set was naked -- she had intended it to be an unreasonable demand, but the director took her up on it -- and her husband, wanting to apologize for the argument, happens to visit her on the set when they are filming the nude scene. They made sure to keep the women strategically covered, but made absolutely no attempt to cover the men. It struck us as a strange difference in attitudes and odd that the French would appear to be so "up tight" about something that we "puritanical" Americans wouldn't think twice about (OK, maybe twice, but rarely a third time).

But back on topic. Here (USA/California), I've seen several women learning to lead in Lindy class as part of the regular rotation and I haven't seen any problems nor indication of anyone being embarassed by it. On the other hand, in 1.5 years of those classes I've only seen one guy try to learn to follow and he only lasted that one hour.

I can think of one possible solution to your problem, but I don't know how comfortable you would be with it. Here in the Los Angeles area there's a group, "Shall We Dance?", that offers (or offered; lindyhopping.com's listings tend to be out-of-date) gay and lesbian dance parties. Here's the key ( http://www.lindyhopping.com/danceplace.html ): "You don't have to be gay to attend, just open-minded, and she welcomes heterosexual couples where, for instance, the woman might choose to lead and the gent to follow." So if you're comfortable with the social setting, you might try to find something similar in Paris where you could learn and practice the role of danseur.

The girls that I danced with during the couple of classes I managed to take didn't seem to mind at all - it was the teacher saying that the students would mind, not the students! They just laughed and said I was a strange looking man :)

I wouldn't mind at all going to the sort of place that you mentioned but there's nothing like it here in Paris (as far as I know but it's true that I haven't really looked!) I have seen same sex couples dancing together on the dance floor but they're usually teachers.

The thing is, I'm not really serious about learning the lead as I simply love to follow :lol: I just wanted to learn a few basic steps to be able to show people what French Rock looks like, once I arrive in NY.

[DWise1]

The girls that I danced with during the couple of classes I managed to take didn't seem to mind at all - it was the teacher saying that the students would mind, not the students! They just laughed and said I was a strange looking man :)
Yeah, there's that kind of joking at first, but then it just seems perfectly natural.

Actually, I missed the perfect opportunity for a joke once. One girl was starting to learn to lead but was still shy about asking a girl to dance (she's a quiet shy type anyway), so one of the older guys (my age) took the follow. He put his left hand behind her shoulder so I immediately corrected him to place it in front. I always have to do the same to beginning follows and I explain to them that it helps them to stay in the frame and makes it easier for them to let go of me when doing turns and swingouts, etc. As I moved his hand to the front of her shoulder and gave him the same explanation, I completely missed my chance to add, "And if she tries to get fresh with you, then this way you can fend her off and defend your honor."

Why do we always think of those too late?

I wouldn't mind at all going to the sort of place that you mentioned but there's nothing like it here in Paris (as far as I know but it's true that I haven't really looked!) I have seen same sex couples dancing together on the dance floor but they're usually teachers.
My guess is that you would need to look for them underground -- ie, they probably don't advertise widely in public. If the gay community there has a newspaper or web site then it might get mentioned there. Or if it's known mainly by word-of-mouth, then you may need to ask any gay acquaintances you have about it or for them to keep their ears open.

Of course, you could also just ask some of your friends for help on this. I.e., if a male friend doesn't mind teaching you his steps and another friend of either gender doesn't mind dancing the follow, then just learn it informally at home.

And if you follow through with same-gender dancing in public, then let them just think that you are a teacher. [grin]

The thing is, I'm not really serious about learning the lead as I simply love to follow :lol: I just wanted to learn a few basic steps to be able to show people what French Rock looks like, once I arrive in NY.
I've been learning small bits of the follow's part, mainly so that I can help beginners who are having problems, but also with the idea that understanding their part should help me in my lead. It really helped the beginners in WCS for the whip; now I'm considering learning the follow's part in the Lindy swingout.

So probably a few informal sessions with friends, a danseur and danseuse (vrai ou faux), would be what you would want.

[pygmalion]

Here's that Frankie Manning workshop schedule. You don't have to be in the US. 8) I sure hope I'm that active when I'm 90. :D

[swinginstyle]

Hi, I live in France and I've never heard of Disco Swing. We dance Rock 'n' Roll. It's not Ceroc/Leroc either as I've seen and danced that in England and although it's similar to watch, it is not the same to dance to at all.

I wish I knew what Rock 'n' Roll dancing was 'really' called. I've been told that it must be East Coast Swing danced in a slot but as I've never seen East Coast Swing I can't say.

There's not much choice here in Paris. When you start dancing, you learn Rock 'n' Roll. Most people stay there but some will go on to learn Lindy, West Coast Swing, Balboa or Boogie. On most dance floors however, it's quite rare to see anyone dancing anything but Rock 'n' Roll.

I can't wait to be in NY and see what real swing dancing in the original version looks like 8)

I was mainly asking, b/c I've been trying to figure out what sort of comp, my ex-boss competed in over in France. I think it was IDO related. I laughed when I saw the disco swing trophy, b/c they compete in France b/c he can't win in the US. His name is Louis Bar, if you might have heard of him.