Severing friendships upon becoming an instructor

[klyns01]

I've seen this topic mentioned before in posts but would like input geared specifically to this issue. I have been a student for a few years at a small studio. There is mutual interest on both my part and the owner of the studio to train me to become an instructor at the studio. Over the past few years, I have developed 1 or 2 close friendships with other students. A condition of becoming an instructor is to sever those friendships. I can understand that the studio wouldn't want other students to feel that my friends would be getting preferential treatment, etc. The owner says it's the "nature of the business" and I would know proprietary information. However, if a professional standard can be maintained at the studio while maintaining a discreet friendship outside the studio, how would that adversely affect anyone? How can an employer dictate personal relationships outside of the studio? My friends would never ask me to reveal studio secrets nor would I ever break the trust of the owner. I think it is possible to maintain separate professional and personal lives. What are your experiences? Is this a common rule among studios?

[jerseydancer]

I've seen this topic mentioned before in posts but would like input geared specifically to this issue. I have been a student for a few years at a small studio. There is mutual interest on both my part and the owner of the studio to train me to become an instructor at the studio. Over the past few years, I have developed 1 or 2 close friendships with other students. A condition of becoming an instructor is to sever those friendships. I can understand that the studio wouldn't want other students to feel that my friends would be getting preferential treatment, etc. The owner says it's the "nature of the business" and I would know proprietary information. However, if a professional standard can be maintained at the studio while maintaining a discreet friendship outside the studio, how would that adversely affect anyone? How can an employer dictate personal relationships outside of the studio? My friends would never ask me to reveal studio secrets nor would I ever break the trust of the owner. I think it is possible to maintain separate professional and personal lives. What are your experiences? Is this a common rule among studios? This sounds like way too much politics for a small studio. There are always certain students that do get better treatment because they have developed close friendships with the studio owner, or studio teachers, what is the big deal? And is the studio doing something illegal that you cannot talk about to your friends? Very strange situation? Is this common for other dance studios?

[samina]

klyns, maybe you can find a different studio who would also be willing to train you... and you wouldn't have to give up your friendships.

definitely a matter of you deciding which you value more. if these are significant relationships in your life, my guess is that the opportunity becomes a no-brainer, one you wouldn't want to consider taking. if they are just mild acquaintances, it may be a different picture. or not.

what do you value most in your life? that's the most important thing. not so much what the studio values...

[danceronice]

While there's definitely a concern about getting TOO involved with a student and favoritism, at the studio I dance wtih in Boston, that would NOT be an expectation, the assumption being we're all grown-ups. I can safely say they would not expect you to cease 'being friends' (what, you can't sit at the same lunch table?) All of us who worked there, teachers or office, knew "proprietary information" about things like pricing and who's had how many lessons and probably most important personal-contact information. We just didn't tell it to people. Heck, at the job I have now, there are things we as professional employees (college staff) cannot tell our work-study employees--I have keys and alarm codes they don't, even though two of them have been here much much longer than I have! That doesn't mean we never socialize with them.

I would wonder what exactly he's worried about you 'spilling.'

[Me]

Studios do have policies about "fraternising", but what you've written here sounds pretty extreme to me.

If it were me, I would try to seek out people who used to work for the studio and talk with them about their experiences before signing any contracts. No major gossiping, just a few simple professional questions. It could just be scary language for something not strictly enforced, or it could be just scratching the surface of some serious drama that you don't want to get involved with.

[Peaches]

My $0.02 is to do a bit of online research to see if that's even legal. It sounds very suspicious to me. Not divulging business information is one thing; fraternizing while at work is one thing...it's a whole other ball of wax when they start trying to tell you who you can and cannot socialize with outside of work.

Likewise, be very Very VERY careful about any noncompete agreement, if they ask you to sign one. It's not uncommon to have companies ask you to sign a noncompete that would never hold up in court, but the threat and expense of it can be enough to let it go unchallenged. All that means is that the employee has shot themselves in the foot.

I'd speak with a lawyer if you really want to pursue this.

(Again, like I said, just my $0.02. And I'm not a lawyer, so I doubt it's even worth that much. I'm speaking purely from secondhand personal experience with a former employer of DH's.)

[Larinda McRaven]

It is a common practice still for many studios. It used to be THE WAY. Now many studios are more lax, yet for some this is still the norm.

If it is not something you can abide by, then that studio is not for you. But for them it is how they operate, and going to work for them and expecting to change their business practice is not practical.

Since you are already a student there, and have been on the other side of the "no frat clause" you obviously haven't seen anything wrong with it so far....!

[lorenzof]

If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. Step cautiously.

[Warren J. Dew]

However, if a professional standard can be maintained at the studio while maintaining a discreet friendship outside the studio, how would that adversely affect anyone? How can an employer dictate personal relationships outside of the studio? My friends would never ask me to reveal studio secrets nor would I ever break the trust of the owner. I think it is possible to maintain separate professional and personal lives. What are your experiences? Is this a common rule among studios?

This is a common rule among certain types of studios. Many people think they can handle conflicts of interest and when push comes to shove, but they don't actually handle them as well as they think they will. You may be an exception, but there are valid reasons why some studios have this rule, and they can't very well make exceptions for just one instructor.

If you're not comfortable with that rule, you probably shouldn't be teaching at that studio.

[Larinda McRaven]

However, if a professional standard can be maintained at the studio while maintaining a discreet friendship outside the studio, how would that adversely affect anyone?

If you already are thinking of carrying on with a "discreet friendship" and hiding it from them or the other students... I would say this is REALLY not the place for you.

[klyns01]

I realize I need to speak more with the owner regarding this issue and I plan to do that soon. The main concern that I have with this is that the owner, who admitted that he first thought about me as a potential instructor one year ago, encouraged my friendship with one particular student by having us work together on projects - to the benefit of the studio. So if he was considering me to be an instructor which would require me to sever my friendships, then why would he have encouraged them in the first place? That is where my confusion comes in and leaves me wondering if he would allow us to maintain a discreet friendship given the circumstances.

[fascination]

I think you need to discuss this with him...particularly b/c maryland isn't a huge place and your username isn't terribly mysterious...and it is probably best dealt with privately...

[Wolfgang]

It's a very common rule. We all know what happens to rules, right? So, in the spirit of being adults, they lie to you, you lie to them and everything continues as before.

[fascination]

I think that is a sad and jaded perspective on how it should go

[tanya_the_dancer]

It is a common practice still for many studios. It used to be THE WAY. Now many studios are more lax, yet for some this is still the norm.

If it is not something you can abide by, then that studio is not for you. But for them it is how they operate, and going to work for them and expecting to change their business practice is not practical.

Since you are already a student there, and have been on the other side of the "no frat clause" you obviously haven't seen anything wrong with it so far....!

This is a bit more than just a no-frat clause, he is asked to drop his existing relationships in order to work there.

[Piggles]

I agree with Larinda's posts; I used to be a student for 4 years at a studio that was very extreme in its non-frat policies. I've since danced at other studios and have never seen its equal in terms of how the owner regimented social interaction. One time her manager went so far as to try and control the social interaction of students (as in student-student interaction) *outside* of the studio too!

Just like any other job you'd apply to, take the time to consider whether the business policies are ones that you (preferably) agree with, or at the very least, are willing to adhere to.

[TangoRocks]

Sounds like your studio owner has franchise roots--that level of strict non-frat I've only seen at franchise studios. The only exception seems to be if you had a pre-existing relationship, i.e., someone you did NOT meet at your current studio. Your childhood friend or sorority sister would probably be ok, but not someone you first met at the studio. One of my friends at my studio is now in the "training" program so she is not even allowed to have me on her facebook as a "friend", let alone, say, go grab a drink at the pub, whereas she is still allowed to fraternize with a lady she has known a long time, and is still a student at the studio. The independents around here are less strict, I even know a girl who is getting married to her dance teacher, and she'd only switched to the independent studio to compete in International style, not to find a boyfriend or future husband.

[madmaximus]

Ahh--ethics and morals.

Dance studios--while they exist in a social environment--function with business ethics (they are driven by profit).
Thus everything they do is governed by what will affect their bottom-line.

Because social environments change, then so do some of the fundamental ethics that govern how businesses (and by extension, their teachers) will act.
That some of these dance studios haven't changed is another matter for discussion at a different time.

My point is: if you go into that social environment (the studio's), then you are ethically bound by the rules of that environment--like it or not--but not morally so (wink).

Outside of that environment your social obligations still apply to you--and that is to your friends at whatever social level that might be.

(ie: treat your friends as friends and only as customers/students in the studio).

Besides, IMO (Non-)fraternization clauses are malodorous anachronisms redolent of ineptitude and apparatchik puppetry/control and best left in the past and forgotten.





m

[fascination]

:)...

[DerekWeb]

In light of the multitude of threads on this board complaining about teachers taking advantage of students (in many different ways), I do not understand why so many are opposing a Non-fraternization rule.

[mop6686]

This is pretty common, especially if the owner started with a franchise. When I worked for a franchise the boss told us in training that we had to severe all ties to the friends we already had who were not in the dance business. I didn't and needless to say, we parted ways soon after.

[wonderwoman]

I can see the expectation of not fraternizing with students once you become an instructor, going forward... but to sever relationships you had before is just unreasonable.. my two cents.

[Ray Sison]

This is pretty common, especially if the owner started with a franchise. When I worked for a franchise the boss told us in training that we had to severe all ties to the friends we already had who were not in the dance business. I didn't and needless to say, we parted ways soon after.

mop6686, sounds like the right choice, given the rules and your beliefs...

:cheers:

[Larinda McRaven]

I coach often at a school that has a very very strict no-frat policy. It never was, nor did the owner come from, a franchise. They were always independent. It is a simple business model that works well for some. This studio does very well. If you don't like it there is always a different studio down the street.

[madmaximus]

In light of the multitude of threads on this board complaining about teachers taking advantage of students (in many different ways), I do not understand why so many are opposing a Non-fraternization rule.

The taking advantage of students by a minority of teachers cannot be prevented by a non-frat clause--it is a simplistic bandage for a complex tri-fold issue: the selection process of the studio, the moral expections of the environment, and the character of the individual.

Despite benevolent platitudes, a non-frat clause is a self-serving palliative designed to protect the studio.

The truth is, while a non-frat clause may provide a modicum of safeguard, there is very little a studio can do to prevent a teacher hell-bent upon subverting the trust of the student--except to not choose that teacher in the first place.





m

[jerseydancer]

If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. Step cautiously. agree with lorenzof on this one

[jerseydancer]

It's a very common rule. We all know what happens to rules, right? So, in the spirit of being adults, they lie to you, you lie to them and everything continues as before. unfortunately, it is the way in most business situations, not just dancing. "Rules are made to be broken" It is just your choice, if you go with the flow and do it quietly, or act as a rebel.

[jerseydancer]

One time her manager went so far as to try and control the social interaction of students (as in student-student interaction) *outside* of the studio too!
. This manager sounds like a control freak with some serious mental issues

[Ray Sison]

I coach often at a school that has a very very strict no-frat policy. It never was, nor did the owner come from, a franchise. They were always independent. It is a simple business model that works well for some. This studio does very well. If you don't like it there is always a different studio down the street.

Larinda, Yes, the rules are the rules. Our school is independent and has never had any franchise affiliation--and is no-frat. And the studio does well, too. If that is against someone's beliefs, you are right, there are other places to go...

[Warren J. Dew]

The taking advantage of students by a minority of teachers cannot be prevented by a non-frat clause--it is a simplistic bandage for a complex tri-fold issue: the selection process of the studio, the moral expections of the environment, and the character of the individual.
It may be a simplistic bandage, but simplistic bandages do sometimes work.

[madmaximus]

It may be a simplistic bandage, but simplistic bandages do sometimes work.

Oh, I conceded that on my post--I happen to agree that simplistic bandages sometimes work (I once had to bandage injured passengers with sanitary naps and kapok at a bad vehicle accident--not the best solution, but it worked).

Philosophically, I disagree with it--can't help thinking that there's a better way.





m

[mop6686]

The truth is, while a non-frat clause may provide a modicum of safeguard, there is very little a studio can do to prevent a teacher hell-bent upon subverting the trust of the student--except to not choose that teacher in the first place.
m

I absolutely agree. A teacher at my previous studio (a franchise w/ strict no frat policies) began dating one of his students. My boss saw them kissing on the street together and their cover was blown. He was fired, we were told we could not stay in contact with him and to 'unfriend' him on facebook, etc.

Just a side note. Though I have been subjected to a very strict no frat policy in the past, they do serve a purpose. A no frat sign had to be put up in the same studio after a male student followed my female boss home. He said he was unaware that he could not pursue a relationship with my her. It's important that students know when they walk in for the first time that they won't be taken advantage of or hit on and that the teachers won't accept the same behavior either. Partner dancing already crosses so many physical boundaries for a lot of people that other boundaries need to be put in place.

[MultiFaceted Dancer]

Outside the Ballroom Arena,There is no job that I am aware of that tells you -you need to give up previous Friendships in order to work for them nor should there be. Considering we are all suppose to be grownups, then we should act like grownups. As a manager for 21yrs years-- information pertinent and confidential stays confidential to the company and or just between the owner and yourself. As I was just quoted in saying just today, --Times, attitudes, beliefs and growth-- changes all the time and those who do not change with the times and insist on staying with the past(as being the no frat contracts) become dinosaurs and what happened to them --They became Extinct. So it is also the choice of the studio to insist on carry out the past ways of doing things and also choose to become a dinosaur as well . If you can't Trust your Staff then- one don't have them as staff and or don't give out private confidential info to them or limit the access to that information. Me-I don't hire Staff members that I don't trust but certain information is not giving to staff members it's between the doctor and myself as it should. No one else's business.

[waltzgirl]

Non-frat policies can be helpful to female teachers to deflect male students without hurting their feelings (and losing them as students).

[MultiFaceted Dancer]

If an Instructor handles themselves in a professinal manner as other professions do there should not be that problem. You can tease and joke around in an innocent fashion and still maintain a professional relationship and again we are grownups and should be able to address a misunderstanding in a delicate fashion which doesn't cause hurt feelings.-close contact or not bolero or tango or whatever.

[Larinda McRaven]

Non-frat policies can be helpful to female teachers to deflect male students without hurting their feelings (and losing them as students).

exactly

If an Instructor handles themselves in a professinal manner as other professions do there should not be that problem. You can tease and joke around in an innocent fashion and still maintain a professional relationship and again we are grownups and should be able to address a misunderstanding in a delicate fashion which doesn't cause hurt feelings.-close contact or not bolero or tango or whatever.

Sounds good in theory... but unless you are a woman teacher who has had to deflect a students unwanted advances and probably lose the business anyway... you have no idea how untrue it is.

[MultiFaceted Dancer]

As this is a postion of authority,It is in your control to maintain a relationship with a student with the understanding of the rules. Just as every new patient that walks in our office has to understand the rules of this particular dental office compared to all other dental offices. Those rules are relayed to all new patients equally by our staff members and backed up by management. The exceptions to those rules are only made by management-myself and the doctor mostly myself since the doctor and I are on the same page with an agreement on how to run the practice and the lee way I have as manager. If we were as concerned at losing patients as you are about losing customers we would't be successful. The customers came to you to learn how to dance and if they have another purpose in mind that's not what they hired you for. We are a dental office not a medical office. We are practicing dentistry not medicine. You are teachers of dance not an escort service. Unfortunately there are teachers who have agreed to become dance hosts-which can make students confused when teachers agree to be for hire by the hour for social purposes outside the studio. Then students start believing thier instructor is interested in them but inside the studio it is in the instructors control to relay the rules right from the beginning when no real relationship exist. If there is a change in the way a relationship grows it should be discussed amongst each other privately and dealt with in that manner. IF the student and teacher value the relationship and lessons they should truely be able to work through any misunderstandings. Again in the outside of the ballroom arena you can't please everyone and neither can you in ballroom world either.

[lorenzof]

Interesting discussion. As to the OP, if you're not comfortable with it, try to find another way to get your training. As to the various points brought up in this thread, there are very solid reasons for a non-frat policy. It really boils down to the protection of both the teachers and the students, as well as creating an effective learning environment. That doesn't mean a teacher can't be friends with students. Just not their own students. It is difficult to have an effective teaching relationship if there is also a personal relationship. In a group setting, it is more difficult to treat all the students equally if there is a personal relationship with some of the students. A non-frat policy protects students from predatory teachers. And it gives teachers an effective way to deflect the advances of students.

I would say, also, that a non-frat policy applies primarily in a setting where a number of teachers work for a studio. Independent teachers just have to exercise good judgement.

[SDsalsaguy]

e... but unless you are a woman teacher who has had to deflect a students unwanted advances and probably lose the business anyway... you have no idea how untrue it is.
Larinda has a very valid point here. However, I have also seen this used in a very manipulative manner by female instructors -- i.e. feigning emotional closeness to bolster business but then "hiding" behind the non frat clause.

In either case, I don't have an issue with the non-frat clause per se (although certainly not my preference), but do take issue with the direct involvement in extant relationships noted by the OP. I was actually on the other side of that myself at my very first studio, having become friendly with two other students, who were then hired on as instructors and told that they could no longer be friends with me. Needless to say I wasn't with that studio much longer at that point.

[fascination]

right...places set up rules, largely for their own sense of liability...but those rules can be abused from either end...and reflect more of the ideal of the establishment than the true reality of what goes on...hence, to my mind they are largely ineffective...but can be pointed to when neccessary for protective purposes....

[MultiFaceted Dancer]

That is one point of view and can easily be understood as to why it prudent to establish boundries. Yet non frat contracts and severing friendships is not the answer. By the way - has it truely been effective in the past --not that I've seen.

[fascination]

trust me, I am not endorsing them...I think they are about as useless as telling kids not to bring their cell phones to school...sure...okay...THAT's gonna happen

[MultiFaceted Dancer]

trust me, I am not endorsing them...I think they are about as useless as telling kids not to bring their cell phones to school...sure...okay...THAT's gonna happen

It's nice to see that you and I agree.

[MultiFaceted Dancer]

Interesting discussion. As to the OP, if you're not comfortable with it, try to find another way to get your training. As to the various points brought up in this thread, there are very solid reasons for a non-frat policy. It really boils down to the protection of both the teachers and the students, as well as creating an effective learning environment. That doesn't mean a teacher can't be friends with students. Just not their own students. It is difficult to have an effective teaching relationship if there is also a personal relationship. In a group setting, it is more difficult to treat all the students equally if there is a personal relationship with some of the students. A non-frat policy protects students from predatory teachers. And it gives teachers an effective way to deflect the advances of students.

I would say, also, that a non-frat policy applies primarily in a setting where a number of teachers work for a studio. Independent teachers just have to exercise good judgement.

Non frat contracts don't work because people are human and most pro partnerships are established as the student teacher relationships grows the student then becomes a pro to eliminate the issue. Some male and female instructors encourage the students by charming them into more lessons-If you just teach and encourage students in becoming better dancers which by the way is what the instructors are hired to do this problem would not exist. Just. As in life unwanted advances are easy to back off -no frat contract are useless people will do what they want when they want- after all we are grownups and not 12 yrs old under our parents thumb. I don't babysit my staff-they are professionals in their own right besides babysitting is mean't for children not adults.

[Larinda McRaven]

As this is a postion of authority,It is in your control to maintain a relationship with a student with the understanding of the rules.
If you just teach and encourage students in becoming better dancers which by the way is what the instructors are hired to do this problem would not exist. J

Yes, I am in complete authority over my business. And even as professional and non-personal as I am I still overhear things like this being told to my student (by his sister who comes to watch him compete with me..) "ooh she is so pretty, you look so good together, you said you like her, ask her out, you two would be great!" And then I have to deal with the mini crush and the little shy advances for several weeks until he gets the hint it is not going anywhere. Or until he flat out asks and I have to say "no". To have a No-Frat keeps it from being a personal insult when you have to ask a student to respect your space and professionalism. It is MUCH more simple and direct.

The fact that I am professional and never encourage or "charm" my students has very little on the fact that people develop crushes or misguess the boundaries.

If we were as concerned at losing patients as you are about losing customers we would't be successful.

I taught 52 lessons last week... in 3 1/2 days. I have no problem with my business. Even though I am concerned over hurting their feelings if I had to say... "sorry you are not my type." Instead I prefer to say "I am sorry, I make it a business practice to never date my students." It doesn't seem to hurt me, or the myriad of studios I know that have that policy. And BELIEVE ME... the moment I accept a simple dinner invitation from one student I have 50 more of them wanting to know why I said yes to some one else but said no to them. Honestly... do you have ANY IDEA how many times I get invited over to students houses for dinner? Or out to drinks after work. Even simple non-romantic invitations. Everyone thinks we are "friends", when in reality they are my clients. I do have several students whose company I do enjoy, I probably would not mind a soccer game with them, or out for drinks as a group. But there are students who I can tell are just itching for an open door. Keeping it shut is best for everyone.

We are a dental office not a medical office. We are practicing dentistry not medicine.

Yes, and I don't presume to tell you how to run your business... as I would never have any idea of the pitfalls you encounter. I am sure you would agree that you could not know mine either.

And yes, we are all adults. But how many adults truly act like it?

[pygmalion]

The only time I ever had any boundary issues was at a studio without a non-frat policy. The instructor didn't respect my boundaries, to start, and therefore I had no idea what his boundaries were or if he even had any.

My $0.02? It's much easier on everyone, in the long run, to keep it simple and separate.

[ChaChaMama]

I wrote a long post on this a few days ago...but I guess I never posted it.

My $.02.

I understand why a studio would have a no fraternization clause that prohibited romantic/sexual relationships between teachers and students. My industry is higher education, and many institutions have similar rules.
(Some prohibit romantic relationships with your own students, others with students in your department, still others with any students enrolled at your institution.)

I think a BROAD policy that prohibits FRIENDSHIP is MUCH more problematic, possibly unenforceable, and open to legal challenge.

Um...I attended a baby shower for one of my dance teachers. If she worked at a studio with a non-frat clause (she doesn't), would she be FIRED for that? It was definitely a social occasion. Years later, she jointly threw one for me. Oooh, naughty or nice?

Are people who teach at non-frat studios which prohibit friendship absolutely not allowed to have a meal or a drink with students, unless it is part of a comp package?

How about wishing your instructor good luck at Blackpool? Too friendly?

[pygmalion]

I hear what you're saying and agree. The only issue I see is that, much of the time, teacher and student are of opposite sexes, so it becomes very hard to draw the line between friendship and romantic or sexual relationships -- pretty much the way the line blurs outside the dance studio, as well.

Right now, I have a couple dozen friends who are men. I can't always tell which ones are platonic forever, which ones are platonic but looking for more, which ones have real romantic potential and which ones are dogs who want ... you know what (see yesterday's activities thread for hints. *wink wink* )

Same thing in the dance studio, which is where the difficulty lies, IMO.

Having been burned by the lack of a policy, I have a certain set of prejudices. But I really do see where others could differ dramatically with my view. Both points of view have merit, IMHO.

[wooh]

I think I agree with CCM. Prohibiting romance is different than prohibiting "friendship." And some seem to go so far as to prohibit being an "acquaintance."
If I spend an hour or 5 or 10 per week with someone, that's more time than I spend with a lot of family members. Sure it's business, but even pure business relationships usually aren't 100% business. I ask my coworkers, "How are you doing today?" I don't see that going to the Waffle House after a dance party is a horrible crime. However, as a student, I also don't EXPECT to go to the Waffle House with my instructor after a dance party. I can see where it may cause problems when someone that's got a crush on their instructor sees me going to Waffle House with that instructor. And I can see where it might make things easier if instructor can point to a sign that says, "ABSOLUTELY NO FRATERNIZATION!"
Like everything else, there's freedom of choice. If a fraternization policy is a deal breaker for the studio I take lessons at, then I'll choose accordingly. And if I wanted to teach at one, I'd choose one with the policies I think I can abide by. And if I owned a studio, I'd make the policies that I want (within the law of course.)

[pygmalion]

One studio I've taken lessons at got around that by scheduling periodic social events outside the studio with both teachers and students in attendance. It worked ... sort of.

But just like most other human interactions, it's unpredictable. *shrug*

[MultiFaceted Dancer]

Yes, I am in complete authority over my business. And even as professional and non-personal as I am I still overhear things like this being told to my student (by his sister who comes to watch him compete with me..) "ooh she is so pretty, you look so good together, you said you like her, ask her out, you two would be great!" And then I have to deal with the mini crush and the little shy advances for several weeks until he gets the hint it is not going anywhere. Or until he flat out asks and I have to say "no". To have a No-Frat keeps it from being a personal insult when you have to ask a student to respect your space and professionalism. It is MUCH more simple and direct.

The fact that I am professional and never encourage or "charm" my students has very little on the fact that people develop crushes or misguess the boundaries.



I taught 52 lessons last week... in 3 1/2 days. I have no problem with my business. Even though I am concerned over hurting their feelings if I had to say... "sorry you are not my type." Instead I prefer to say "I am sorry, I make it a business practice to never date my students." It doesn't seem to hurt me, or the myriad of studios I know that have that policy. And BELIEVE ME... the moment I accept a simple dinner invitation from one student I have 50 more of them wanting to know why I said yes to some one else but said no to them. Honestly... do you have ANY IDEA how many times I get invited over to students houses for dinner? Or out to drinks after work. Even simple non-romantic invitations. Everyone thinks we are "friends", when in reality they are my clients. I do have several students whose company I do enjoy, I probably would not mind a soccer game with them, or out for drinks as a group. But there are students who I can tell are just itching for an open door. Keeping it shut is best for everyone.


Yes, and I don't presume to tell you how to run your business... as I would never have any idea of the pitfalls you encounter. I am sure you would agree that you could not know mine either.

And yes, we are all adults. But how many adults truly act like it?
There are many Professionals out there charming thier students into more lessons and instead of teaching them and telling them where they need to improve and they continue to compliment them into thinking they are doing well to continue the schmoozing. Then when the student goes out to thier first or second comp. they are extremely upset with thier scores or when they go to other open studio dances and realize how they are lacking in there abilities while comparing notes. Its a well known fact. Since we are dealing with facts of the business. Of course there are just as many Professionals who don't charm students, are highly respected and are doing well. That is why life is about Two sides to a coin and not One. Why would any business owner be concerned with what each and everyone thinks. Your personal life outside of business hours is your business and should stay as such. Meaning if you choose to go to a birthday party, soccer game or whatever between teachers and one or more students thats your business. The ballroom world is a small world. Yes --so Is it going on? Yes of course it is. Is a contract going to stop it? No Do a good majority of the population speed? Yes- Do they get tickets? Yes Are they going to stop speeding. No Being in customer oriented businesses like yours and mine there are pitfalls. Dealing with the good and the bad is just that. No business is perfect. If you don't want to get ask out you could always wear a ring. Besides this was more about friendships and No business has any right what so ever to make you give up a friend in order to keep a job. I am quite sure that issue could be challenge in court

[pygmalion]

I hear what you're saying, MFD, and FL is notorious for ballroom shenanigans, to the point, IIRC, that they have laws on the books that most other states don't have.

And I also hear what L and other reputable teachers I've had aren't saying. They don't want to be painted with the brush of the unscrupulous, and therefore are very careul to keep professional and personal separate.

I would do the same. :cool:

[MultiFaceted Dancer]

I hear what you're saying, MFD, and FL is notorious for ballroom shenanigans, to the point, IIRC, that they have laws on the books that most other states don't have.

And I also hear what L and other reputable teachers I've had aren't saying. They don't want to be painted with the brush of the unscrupulous, and therefore are very careul to keep professional and personal separate.

I would do the same. :cool:

Thanks for understanding both sides of the coin

[Warren J. Dew]

Are people who teach at non-frat studios which prohibit friendship absolutely not allowed to have a meal or a drink with students, unless it is part of a comp package?

Yes, that's correct. Attending baby showers would be prohibited too, unless perhaps they were held at the studio.

Wishing good luck at Blackpool would be okay, but you wouldn't have an opportunity to do it except at the studio or a competition or something.

I don't think Larinda is saying that all dance studios should have a nonfraternization clause. Some work fine without them - it sounds like yours does. Different things work in different situations.

[MultiFaceted Dancer]

Yes, that's correct. Attending baby showers would be prohibited too, unless perhaps they were held at the studio.

Wishing good luck at Blackpool would be okay, but you wouldn't have an opportunity to do it except at the studio or a competition or something.

I don't think Larinda is saying that all dance studios should have a nonfraternization clause. Some work fine without them - it sounds like yours does. Different things work in different situations.
Good thing that I don't belong or would ever belong to ones of those studio's on principal alone. Just like I wouldn't have a house in a Gated Community which tells you what you can do inside and outside of your house. Non Frat contracts are Babysitting Students and Teachers. What a Shame- Studio's and Teachers feels this is the better way to handle things.

[etp777]

I didn't read Larinda's posts as saying that everyone should have non-frat clauses. Far from it. I just read them to say there are very clear and obvious times where they can be helpful

[etp777]

Personally, I look at this way I look at all rules. I obey those I agree with, ignore those I don't. Just make sure that I'm informed as to the possible consequences

[MultiFaceted Dancer]

Personally, I look at this way I look at all rules. I obey those I agree with, ignore those I don't. Just make sure that I'm informed as to the possible consequences
I do like This Philosophy

[tanya_the_dancer]

Good thing that I don't belong or would ever belong to ones of those studio's on principal alone. Just like I wouldn't have a house in a Gated Community which tells you what you can do inside and outside of your house. Non Frat contracts are Babysitting Students and Teachers. What a Shame- Studio's and Teachers feels this is the better way to handle things.

Just one other angle, though, if a person abides by such clause and drops friends he *already* had because the management said so, that says something about that person.

[MultiFaceted Dancer]

Agreed

[lorenzof]

Non frat contracts don't work because people are human and most pro partnerships are established as the student teacher relationships grows the student then becomes a pro to eliminate the issue. Some male and female instructors encourage the students by charming them into more lessons-If you just teach and encourage students in becoming better dancers which by the way is what the instructors are hired to do this problem would not exist. Just. As in life unwanted advances are easy to back off -no frat contract are useless people will do what they want when they want- after all we are grownups and not 12 yrs old under our parents thumb. I don't babysit my staff-they are professionals in their own right besides babysitting is mean't for children not adults.
I come from a world where some policies are put in place that are difficult to enforce universally, because detection of infractions may be infrequent. Not much different than some laws. That being said, if I run a studio, and I catch an infraction, I now have effective documented choices to deal with the situation. I also have the opportunity to explain why the policy is in place. Ballroom dancing is a funny world when it comes to relationships. In any student teacher relationship the teacher is in a position of trust, and their position as much as their person can become an object of infatuation. And it is a fee for service relationship, so a student would do well to be careful of confusing good business practice with actual affection. A well communicated policy can be educational as much as a protection.

While I treat those around me as professionals and adults, it would be unduly optimistic to not prepare for them to occasionally be unprofessional or childish. Rules usually get put in place right after they were needed.

[Josh]

Well said lorenzof.

[chachachacat]

I agree with what Larinda said. Well said.
Pretty teacher, student being so close, eventually most of them ask her* out. It could be a huge problem of losing students without that policy. Believe me, it's very common.

*(Not meaning Larinda, just any pretty teacher.)

[TangoRocks]

I agree with what Larinda said. Well said.
Pretty teacher, student being so close, eventually most of them ask her* out. It could be a huge problem of losing students without that policy. Believe me, it's very common.

*(Not meaning Larinda, just any pretty teacher.)

I can understand the general rationale behind the non-frat clauses, but the OP has a very specific type of non-frat dilemma. Yes, dance teachers get hit on, or, I presume, even get stalked by some mentally unbalanced students, so for that kind of behaviour, the non-frat policy is a lifesaver. However, for the specific case of severing the friendships you made at a particular studio just because you have become a teacher there (I am not talking about fraternizing with future students AFTER becoming a teacher, mind you) seems a bit excessive to me. If someone notices the teacher fraternizing with a student it should be easy to explain that they had a pre-existing friendship prior to his/her employment with the studio--UNLESS, of course the teacher in question became the PRIVATE instructor of said student, then I would also agree that the fraternization should cease.

Also, chachachacat, you're absolutely right, I bet a lot of students have crushes on their dance teachers, especially their very first dance teacher! ;)

[MultiFaceted Dancer]

I come from a world where some policies are put in place that are difficult to enforce universally, because detection of infractions may be infrequent. Not much different than some laws. That being said, if I run a studio, and I catch an infraction, I now have effective documented choices to deal with the situation. I also have the opportunity to explain why the policy is in place. Ballroom dancing is a funny world when it comes to relationships. In any student teacher relationship the teacher is in a position of trust, and their position as much as their person can become an object of infatuation. And it is a fee for service relationship, so a student would do well to be careful of confusing good business practice with actual affection. A well communicated policy can be educational as much as a protection.

While I treat those around me as professionals and adults, it would be unduly optimistic to not prepare for them to occasionally be unprofessional or childish. Rules usually get put in place right after they were needed.
I will agree that rules are put in place right after they were needed. I maintain all rules are set in motion as guidelines and should not be mistaken as absolutes. Just as it is quite known to ballroom competitors -once you have learned the rules you are then free to break them or throw caution to the wind so to speak. There is nothing in life that I am aware of that is an absolute. Everything evolves and changes sometimes good sometimes bad. The dance world is a perfect example. Relationships change and grow or not all the time. Dancers are people who are artistic by nature and choose to intrepret life in a different fashion then the "outsiders " do. as there is a major difference between civilian life and the military life. Ask any military person...they are a seperate entity all in the own. The Career choice that a person makes to become an Instructor includes the pitfalls of being hit on so to speak as in comparision would it be a Burn out position to work in the ER, 911 operator, or the fire fighter that risks his life every day he fights a fire,police officers that might be shot --no different. Risks of the trade -so what. I would hate to think those positions should play it safe and have some sort of contract signed before they fight a fire or save a life so they don't get sued.-where would we all be? That why no frat contracts should be eliminated. Every field of business has it's pitfalls. The old saying is if it too hot get out of the kitchen or something like that. My two cents as it were.

[fascination]

as someone who had no clue about the possiblility of falling for the first teacher....I would have given anything, in hindsight, for a warning of that possibility...while I think a rule would have been offensive and ignored, a bit of an education of pitfalls would have been a godsend

[MultiFaceted Dancer]

as someone who had no clue about the possiblility of falling for the first teacher....I would have given anything, in hindsight, for a warning of that possibility...while I think a rule would have been offensive and ignored, a bit of an education of pitfalls would have been a godsend
I do understand. Do you think a non frat contract would have changed your feelings?

[lorenzof]

as someone who had no clue about the possiblility of falling for the first teacher....I would have given anything, in hindsight, for a warning of that possibility...while I think a rule would have been offensive and ignored, a bit of an education of pitfalls would have been a godsend
The best possible outcome of putting a policy in place, and clearly communicating it, is someone asking "why?". In the case of a non-frat policy, if I have a chance to explain what the policy is protecting against, then the student (or the teacher) has some knowledge to make informed choices, and to understand why a teacher might behave a certain way. That is much better than draconian enforcement of rules, which is certainly distasteful and condescending.
That being said, anyone who has been a teenager knows some people have to learn the hard way. c'est la vie.

[fascination]

I do understand. Do you think a non frat contract would have changed your feelings?I think my post makes my view clear...but, in a word, no....usually what the world needs more than rules is mentoring...

[Wolfgang]

I know of at least one instructor who uses her considerable charms quite ruthlessly to ensnare male students into 'contracts'. She's a very good teacher, mind you, but some of her sales techniques are, well, below the belt.
There's a male teacher/proprietor who very aggressively ensures he always gets first 'pick' from among the attractive female students while everyone else can pretty much fend for themselves as best they may.
Both studios have non-'fraternization' policies, to my knowledge, and any male student would surely be expelled should he dare to try anything of the nature described above......

[TinyDancer109]

I know of at least one instructor who uses her considerable charms quite ruthlessly to ensnare male students into 'contracts'. She's a very good teacher, mind you, but some of her sales techniques are, well, below the belt.
There's a male teacher/proprietor who very aggressively ensures he always gets first 'pick' from among the attractive female students while everyone else can pretty much fend for themselves as best they may.


Just to play devil's advocate...

one can argue that non-frat policies protects only the teachers who use these methods to sell lessons... and then they can hide behind the rules if ever confronted by the enamored student.

[Larinda McRaven]

Beside trying to protect students and teachers from unscrupulous actions....against each other.

When a student is also a friend... and the lines get blurred... there SOMETIMES comes with is a certain sense of entitlement or frustration at being treated like a student. Like when they have to pay full price for a competition package, including the teacher-friends time and meals.. But on non-dance time they could hang out with that friend-teacher for free any other time and go dutch.

I doubt studios are protecting proprietary information...but rather protecting the value of a teachers time while working.

[JANATHOME]

This non-frat policy can have benefits for both student and pro. Myself, I like to look at the relationship with my instructors as a business partnership. Of course when you work this close with someone bonds are created, and generally you really like your instructor on a personal level, care for thier well being, but still only within the dance environment. I feel the same way about my co-workers even if I never socialize with them outside of the workplace.

Not to long ago I posted about concerns over our lesson format with a fairly new dance instructor. It was this business relationship that made it possible for me to approach him over our concerns. If this was a friend I would of had to be concerned with perhaps hurting feelings or damaging a friendship and the conversation may of never happened.... Because of the business relationship, although I had to be sensative as to how I approached the conversation I had no fears to have this conversation and the issues were addressed, modified to our specific needs and we moved forward successfully.

When at competition I actually like that our instructor knows that we are not looking for or expect to be entertained or socialized with. If it occurs that is fun but it takes a lot of stress out of a situation for both parties when this is not anticipated by either.

[MultiFaceted Dancer]

I think my post makes my view clear...but, in a word, no....usually what the world needs more than rules is mentoring...
Absolutely

[tanya_the_dancer]

In the OP particular case, though, I doubt that his friends will suddenly become his personal students. As a trainee, he probably will be given much newer students, not someone who's also been dancing for a few years. And as a matter of fact, he didn't even state the gender of his friends. So all that romance stuff may not even apply.

[TinyDancer109]

out fo curiosity....

teachers, would any of you, when asked, tell your students that you do not consider them your friend?

[JANATHOME]

yikes... Tiny dancer, thats a tough one!

[Joyful Dancer]

out fo curiosity....

teachers, would any of you, when asked, tell your students that you do not consider them your friend?

This should prove interesting if any teachers answer :rolleyes:

Regarding friendship, there are best of friends, friends you socialize with, friendly coworkers, friendly business relationships, etc. The teacher/student "friendship" is an interesting mix (trust, position of power, respect, business relationship, etc)

I definitely consider my teacher my "friend"; yet I don't expect him to interact with me, entertain me at dance events, or socialize in the manner in which I interact with a best friend. IMO, you can care about your teacher (male or female), treat them kindly, be friendly, and yes, perhaps spend some limited time together outside of the studio; but you need to be very mature, and consistently respect your teacher for being just that, your teacher. Again, IMHO, it takes two mature, honest individuals to make this type of "friendship" work.

[Larinda McRaven]

I set it straight. They are my clients. When I introduce them to my family/friends that come to a competition to watch, I introduce them as "My Student"... not "My Friend".

[klyns01]

In the OP particular case, though, I doubt that his friends will suddenly become his personal students. As a trainee, he probably will be given much newer students, not someone who's also been dancing for a few years. And as a matter of fact, he didn't even state the gender of his friends. So all that romance stuff may not even apply.


The friend in question is the same gender - no romantic inclinations. This person, a very advanced dancer, would not be my personal student but would continue with their original instructor so that relationship would not exist.

[Kipling]

I set it straight. They are my clients. When I introduce them to my family/friends that come to a competition to watch, I introduce them as "My Student"... not "My Friend".

If one of your students gave you flowers after you competed, would this be inappropriate? Would it matter if you had done well or poorly in the competition? If the student was male or female? Is giving flowers to a dance competitor any difference than giving flowers to a ballerina or singer after a performance?

If I was really serious about learning to dance and my instructor was as distracting to me as you are to your students, I would walk away. If I want to learn to dance, if I am paying to learn to dance, I want to learn to dance, not make eyes at someone. Besides, there are plenty of attractive students (who are distracting enough!).

[Lyra]

Speaking as a teacher who does a lot of one to one coaching (languages, not dancing) You have to make the boundaries clear. My students are just that. I would socialise with them as part of a group, for example I've taught groups that have gone out for Christmas meals and they've invited me. I have no problem with that, but I'm careful to pay my way and leave if it looks like people are going to get embarrassingly drunk!;) I wouldn't accept a one to one invitation from a student and if they asked I'd explain why.

If I bump into a student in a social context (which happens from time to time, I live in a small town) I always introduce them to friends as "my student". Like Larinda I would never say "my friend", no matter how much I might like them.

As a teacher, you have to be really, really careful not to act in a way that other people could see as appropriate. I can imagine that for a dancing teacher whose students are mostly, if not all, of the opposite sex, it's even more important.

[Kipling]

Hi Lyra, thanks for your response. I also enjoy languages and think that mastering dance is probably a lot like mastering a foreign language--it requires study, discipline, patience, and time. My languages are Russian and Farsi. Russian took me about 25 years and a Russian wife to attain fluency. Farsi required a year of full time (8 hours a day) study and I don't have fluency yet. Both of them require maintenance. Learning Russian has given me the confidence to attempt to learn to dance, and starting the learning process over with dance has given me more appreciation for what I have accomplished in Farsi.

I think that dance is another form of intercultural communication, a universal language with its own vocabulary and rules.

Of course I agree with you about fraternization, although when I was learning Russian I did anything I could to get more familiarity with the language. I guess you could say my attitude was "all's fair in love and languages."

[ViviDancer]

I strongly believe that there is no problem with being an instructor and having relationships with students. Being an instructor is like having a job. Work should not be influenced by personal matters. However, I am sure many do not share my view and object. Furthermore, there will always be people who gossip and make unfavorable comments in such scenarios. So I guess the most important thing is, can you handle such pressure?

[Larinda McRaven]

Well here is a question to follow yours...

Why should I have to handle or be subject to such pressure? Why not make a clear distinction between my professional life and my private... and avoid the appearance of impropriety to start with.

[Kipling]

Well here is a question to follow yours...

Why should I have to handle or be subject to such pressure? Why not make a clear distinction between my professional life and my private... and avoid the appearance of impropriety to start with.


I don't disagree...I think your serious students will have the same attitude.

[fascination]

in my experience, it is really best when an instructor is unambiguous and impersonal, not unfriendly but also not liberal in the sharing of the details about their personal life...because when that sort of sharing occurs it can confuse a student into percieving themselves as being a friend...I find that something more stable and lasting can happen when the parties involved are slow in sharing personal details and limited in social contact...it allows for the dancing to be primary and for a degree of detachment to be available when neccessary which, I think is important between a teacher and a student particularly when there is not much disparity in age

[Larinda McRaven]

I forget where it was, perhaps this thread... where someone suggested I just wear a ring to thwart unwanted advances.

It seems odd to me that someone suggests that I LIE to my students. And honestly when you consider how prevalent extra-marital activities are, I doubt it would do any good anyway.

[fascination]

and I would delineate between having a friendly relationship and being friends...at least for myself...friends are people whom you can expect may be available to you in the rest of your life circumstances...I think is is rare when that can happen with an instructor ...and fraught with risk...but not impossible...for my own preference, I prefer to enjoy a friendly relationship with my instructor which is predominantly comprised to time that I am compensating him for...that is not to say that I won't share a meal with him at a comp or give him a lift somewhere...but, I have no expectations beyond that and I find that works better for me than when the lines are less clear

[fascination]

I forget where it was, perhaps this thread... where someone suggested I just wear a ring to thwart unwanted advances.

It seems odd to me that someone suggests that I LIE to my students. And honestly when you consider how prevalent extra-marital activities are, I doubt it would do any good anyway.
I remember some other instructor sharing somewhere that, that is something she does....shrug...I am not going to judge what an instructor might feel they need to do ...but I do feel that if one has trouble verbally and behaviorally setting boundaries, as you say, a ring ain't gonna cut it

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Dance Teacher's Fake Engagement (http://www.danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=36754)

[nucat78]

in my experience, it is really best when an instructor is unambiguous and impersonal, not unfriendly but also not liberal in the sharing of the details about their personal life...because when that sort of sharing occurs it can confuse a student into percieving themselves as being a friend...[...] dancing to be primary and for a degree of detachment to be available when neccessary which, I think is important between a teacher and a student particularly when there is not much disparity in age

+1. Getting too chummy with an instructor can cause problems down the road should either party decide to move on, in one way or another. We've all read stories of blind loyalty, crushes, etc, etc.

[dlgodud]

I really don't want to be a friend of my teachers. But, one teacher suggested he would give a discount to his friend. So I told him that I would not think our relationship would be ever considered as friendship. We can both act nicely and friendly, but we are not friends.

I'd rather to pay a fair amount of money to my teachers and to be treated nicely. That means I expect from my teacher to be on time for lessons, not to be distracted from something else during my lessons, not pushing me to take more lessons than I can't afford, not to discriminate against someone who takes a lot of lessons than I am, not holding up important information, and not having any plan about my improvement except saying that we need more time.

[fascination]

and I think this may be why some instructors are willing to go down that road...if they happen to be tardy alot, need to cancel alot, need a little help.....it's hard to get that kind of slack from a customer so one may have to sort of implicitily behave as though one is a friend

[debmc]

Interesting points from all. Personally, at my age (lol), there is no way that anyone is going to tell me who I can or cannot be friends with. That being said I can see what other posters have expressed in their concerns that friendships can be misinterpreted but that is not just in the dance world but in all aspects of our lives. I would think that non verbal communication as to the nature of the relationship could be set without official non frat rules. As a side note I do notice at comps that the pros and students who consider each other friends do seem to have alot of fun at comps! The friendship seems to help the students especially feel more relaxed and comfortable with their dancing. Just an observation.

[fascination]

don't get me wrong...I am not at all for non frat clauses...or for anyone telling me whom I can befriend...but I do think students need to be very clear about their relationship with their pro which is easy to misinterprete in some instances particularly in the beginning...I do think having an amicable relationship with one's pro is optimal...WRT friendship, that can run hot and cold...sometimes it is an advantage...sometimes it isn't...I have seen that closeness also break very bad at comps...there are healthy ways to be close...there are healthy ways to be a bit removed

[dlgodud]

So I will call it a trustworthy relationship, not friendship.
Ok, I had a competition recently with this teacher who mentioned in a previous post. Guess what? I did not think him as a friend, but we had a great relationship and I respected him as a great pro. But, I watched the video and I got very disappointed how he danced in the competition. He is a pro and he should have danced like a pro. But, his arms, feet, and body movement, etc., everything looked so sloppy. I even showed to my friends, and they all agreed he did not do his part of job. Well, I cannot imagine how much I could be disappointed about what he did in the competition if he was a truly my friend, but I am moving one. The trust is broken, but I am not very sad about the fact I have to move on because I wasn't his friend. The thing is it is a very expensive hobby, and I sacrifice a lot for keep dancing. I don't want to add stuff after I give up a lot of things that I can do if I don't dance. Especially, the emotional roller-coast is the last one that I want to add on.

[fascination]

right...I think it is a great deal more difficult to be objective about what on is getting for their dollar when there is a friendship involved

[snapdancer]

I've actually experienced this in the opposite direction. I went to a local studio's weekly parties just for the social dancing. The parties were attended by this studio's stable of dance instructors, who tend to be on the young side. I danced with one of the female instructors, and I felt she was coming on to me. Now, while I'm not Quasimodo, I don't make female hearts skip a beat when I walk into a room and I was not kidded that this young lady who is at least 2 decades younger was interested in me that way. I really felt sexually harassed and quit going there. (I know this wouldn't fit the legal definition of such but even so)

If dance instructors want to play that game, then they shouldn't be surprised if they find a stalker parked down the street with a pair of binoculars.

I patronize another studio with independent teachers, and am Facebook friends with several. Some I take occasional group lessons, and one I started private lessons. We can have an occasional social type interaction between lessons but in the lesson, they're the teacher and I'm not expecting discounts just because we're Facebook friends.

[fascination]

sadly, some have learned to use the charm to drum up business, because with some folks, it works

[dlgodud]

I patronize another studio with independent teachers, and am Facebook friends with several. Some I take occasional group lessons, and one I started private lessons. We can have an occasional social type interaction between lessons but in the lesson, they're the teacher and I'm not expecting discounts just because we're Facebook friends.

Well, facebook friends don't mean that they are really your friends, IMO. I can go out with people, but I don't think those people are my friends either because I go out with them a few times. Yes, I don't expect teachers should give me discounts because I am their facebook friends.

But, you see some teachers use this friendship as business strategy. I don't say it is bad as long as the relationship maintains in a good status. But, still it is a business relationship, and kind of expensive. So I don't like my teachers use the relationship status as an excuse for not doing their jobs.

[nucat78]

right...I think it is a great deal more difficult to be objective about what on is getting for their dollar when there is a friendship involved

Absolutely. That does not preclude a friendLY and cordial professional relationship.

[snapdancer]

I well understand that there are different levels of friendship, and just because someone is a Facebook "friend" does not mean that I would unburden my innermost secrets during a life crisis to them. These instructors use FB in different ways. One uses it to share personal opinions on different topics some of which I disagree with. Another uses it almost exclusively to drum up business. One of these is my private instructor, made the decision on their teaching ability rather than how they use FB.

[Josh]

sadly, some have learned to use the charm to drum up business, because with some folks, it works

Sadly true, though the fact that something works is really no excuse for a so-called professional to flirt mercilessly for business. Scams also work, but that's no reason to go scamming people.

[fascination]

completely agree...

[Kipling]

Attractive women dance teachers who drum up business by cruising nightclubs convince otherwise ordinary men to to forget their inhibitions and sign up for dance lessons. You can guess how I know this.

[pygmalion]

Attractive women dance teachers who drum up business by cruising nightclubs convince otherwise ordinary men to to forget their inhibitions and sign up for dance lessons. You can guess how I know this.



You have got to be kidding me!

[3wishes]

Attractive women dance teachers who drum up business by cruising nightclubs convince otherwise ordinary men to to forget their inhibitions and sign up for dance lessons. You can guess how I know this.

tsk tsk tsk

[Kipling]

Being lured into dance class is the best thing that ever happened to me at a nightclub. It saved me from much worse things.

[Kipling]

Besides, everyone has to do what they have to do to survive. Who am I to judge?

[Larinda McRaven]

I was lured into the dance world by being approached by a dance teacher. Often there are happy endings.