Which emotions to express?

[tido]

Hi,

While dancing on my own to tango music, I notice a variety of emotions which pop into my mind then body. For instance if something made me angry just earlier, for example an argument, if it pops in my head, and I dwell on the feeling, my body reacts accordingly. With the emotion of anger, the steps are aggressive, sharp, energetic, and at times frantic. I'm wondering if In Tango we are after a specific emotion, or is it just whatever is felt in the moment or whichever emotion the music provokes, the whole spectrum of emotion?

cheers,
Tido

[Steve Pastor]

It can't be "a specific emotion", I don't think. There is too much variation in the music.
That said, I've heard arguments, and seen people dance pretty much the same way to nearly all "tango", including fast ones, slow ones, vals and milonga.

[AndaBien]

...I'm wondering if in Tango we are after a specific emotion, or is it just whatever is felt in the moment or whichever emotion the music provokes, the whole spectrum of emotion?

I don't believe we are after any specific emotion. Which one would it be? To me, tango encompasses all life (all emotions), not just a specified subset.

I allow the music, and my partner, to stimulate emotions, and I dance according to those feelings. Happiness, anger, boldness, timidness, pleasure, sorrow, loneliness, grandeur - for me, the source of my inspiration is the emotions I feel. When I am feeling flat, I put my attention into the music and allow my emotions to be inspired by it.

I encourage you to seek your feelings and express those in your dance.

[tido]

I don't believe we are after any specific emotion. Which one would it be? To me, tango encompasses all life (all emotions), not just a specified subset.

I don't want to get all philosophical, as its principally a dance. But I've read somewhere about how AT was developed during a specific time, when there was not too many jobs, not enough women, etc. I mean it could all be BS, but there does seem to be a theme that its all about the Argentine traditions. Perhaps its traditions are in Family? But I'm not sure how to assign an emotion to that, or maybe its just the Argentine approach. But for now I think the best way to go about it is just to experience the emotions, not judge them, and go with the flow. Should make for some dynamic dancing, :)

Tido

[AndaBien]

... AT was developed during a specific time, when there was not too many jobs, not enough women, etc. I mean it could all be BS, but there does seem to be a theme that its all about the Argentine traditions...But for now I think the best way to go about it is just to experience the emotions, not judge them, and go with the flow. Should make for some dynamic dancing

AT was born in a specific time, but it has continued to develop up until now. When it was developed the were few women, but abundant jobs: that's why so many European men immigrated to Argentina. However, in the Golden Age (40s) the situation was different. Fundamentally, AT is about human emotions. More fundamentally, it's about your emotions. Anyway, that's how I read it.

[tido]

Fundamentally, AT is about human emotions. More fundamentally, it's about your emotions. Anyway, that's how I read it.

Thank you, well said. Now I just hope I'm comfortable/confident enough to actually physically express them. Hmm.. partner trust come's to mind. Anyway good stuff.

[opendoor]

I find your ideas and this thread interesting. But I dont agree with what you have read about the origin of TA. In the beginning the people of BsAs had the choice of different european and caribean music traditions and dances to express their feelings and moods. But when tango became a fashion the diversity was incorporated into tango. So something like happy-tango, tango-blues, tango-romanza, tango-ballads, tango canción, and so on developed.

[li]

If tango is about the relationship/ connection, then the music and the dancefloor provide the environment for that relationship to develop. Dancing to the same music for me feels very different with a different partner - and I think it should. The music imo should inspire emotion (and in turn movement) rather than dictate it. So to look for a specific type of emotion makes the relationship less authentic.

[mkjohnson]

My emotions when I dance vary tremendously with music and partner. Everything comes into play - the tone (and lyrics if it's a vocal piece), how we are both feeling due to external/outside world stuff, how we feel to each other generally, how the "crowd" feels (are we having to dance defensively? do we have practically the whole floor?).

For example, Pugliese's "Malena", danced with partner F., intensely nostalgic, sometimes melancholy - depends on the day we've each had.

"Malena" on piano, either recorded Lucio Demare, or live with our own Glover Gill on piano, danced with T. - different feeling altogether. T. is not as familiar with the lyrics, but loves the music - so in combination we dance a gentle, almost soothing dance to it.

Again, it's all variable depending on floor conditions, stress levels, fatigue, how early or late it is in the evening.

On my own, just practicing. A lot of tango makes me feel contemplative, a little nostalgic - depends on the orquestra. Vals almost always gives me the "I feel pretty", swirly, wooshy feeling. And milonga cheers me up, gets my blood flowing.

[Captain Jep]

Nicely said, mk.

I've been thinking recently about whether it's best just to react to the music rather than to the words of the tango. The words of a tango are often sad and so tend to make you sad also. Is that something that you want to project to your dance partner?

Take the fabulous "En Tus Brazos", for instance. It starts off with some staccato multi part music and then breaks out into a wonderful wonderful melody. And when it comes the first couplet is very romantic :

"Yo me cague en tus ojazos
y me fui a caer en tus brazos"

"I felt myself drowning in your eyes
as I began to fall into your arms"

(or something like that - my Spanish is only so-so)

All very romantic! But by the end of the song the lyrics have become sad and melancholic. The woman has left and the man feels like he wants to die rather than lose her sweet embrace.

Still, though, the music is rich and romantic. And IMO it's better to take the romance of the opening couplet and run with it. Who wants to get sad and melancholy at the end? And how do you dance "sad" anyway??

[dchester]

And how do you dance "sad" anyway??
I go for the connection.

[Captain Jep]

Which means what in this context? :confused:

[Steve Pastor]

"I felt myself drowning in your eyes
as I began to fall into your arms"

by the end of the song the lyrics have become sad and melancholic. The woman has left and the man feels like he wants to die rather than lose her sweet embrace.


One interesting challenge I was given when taking lessons was to try to dance different things including, as I remember it, summer. Yeah. It was quite the challenge and sometimes I was just totally at a loss.

What comes to mind with this example is to start with an intensely weight sharing embrace (already there is a problem because you can't do it by yourself!), a firmer "holding on" to my partner, and lively, joyous movements. As the lyrics/mood/and music, too I would guess?) become sad and melancholic, I would try to lessen the amount of weight shared. By the time the song ended I would be barely connected to my partner: weight pulled away, and little tone in the right arm. Steps would go from springy/joyous to "plodding"/ dejected; posture from erect/proud to dejected/stooped.

All of this doesn't have to be too obvious, since we aren't talking performance here, but there it is. It would be rare to find a partner who "gets it", though.

[Dave Bailey]

To me, this whole "expressing emotions" stuff is all rubbish. Sorry, it's not acting, it's dancing.

If you don't feel an emotion, why on Earth should you try to express it? :confused:

And if you feel something, you'll express it naturally, depending on the mood, your partner, your music and so on.

[ant]

If you don't feel an emotion, why on Earth should you try to express it? :confused:


You may not feel an emotion but you may relate an emotion to the music being played and reflect that emotion in your dancing.

It is just another tool to help bring improvistion and musicality into the dance.

[AndaBien]

... Sorry, it's not acting, it's dancing.

If you don't feel an emotion, why on Earth should you try to express it?

And if you feel something, you'll express it naturally, depending on the mood, your partner, your music and so on.

I wasn't suggesting that anyone should fabricate an emotion, or pretend to have one.

Music can stimulate emotions, the same as lyrics, or just the sound of someone's voice can. If a dancer wants to convey emotional expression, and not all of them do, those things are good sources to evoke emotions.

Music makes me feel all sorts of things, and I like to let my dance be influenced by those feelings. On the other hand, I see lots of dancers who are apparently un-influenced by the emotions of the music.

[Steve Pastor]

Right. If the music makes you feel it, you can express it with how you move and even how you connect with your partner. Even if you don't "feel" it as an emotion, you are still more connected to the music if you "dance it".

Balanchine – 'See the Music, Hear the Dance'

[tido]

By everyone's responses I understand there is an opinion that emotional expression is very dynamic with many factors affecting the what emotion is provoked/felt. And yes to be authentic the emotions have to be yours, spontaneous. It may be that tango expression has changed since tango's incubation. As the circumstances from then till now have changed, but one thing is certain emotions have not changed, one thing which is constant in this. Just that the times and approach to tango have changed. Jeeze, to much philosophy here, IT'S JUST A DANCE, ENJOY IT!

Here is a clip of Carlos Gavito on emotions, youtube(dot)com/watch?v=p3QNxm6hVYc

Remove the (dot), I can't post links yet.

[Captain Jep]

One interesting challenge I was given when taking lessons was to try to dance different things including, as I remember it, summer. Yeah. It was quite the challenge and sometimes I was just totally at a loss.

What comes to mind with this example is to start with an intensely weight sharing embrace (already there is a problem because you can't do it by yourself!), a firmer "holding on" to my partner, and lively, joyous movements. As the lyrics/mood/and music, too I would guess?) become sad and melancholic, I would try to lessen the amount of weight shared. By the time the song ended I would be barely connected to my partner: weight pulled away, and little tone in the right arm. Steps would go from springy/joyous to "plodding"/ dejected; posture from erect/proud to dejected/stooped.

All of this doesn't have to be too obvious, since we aren't talking performance here, but there it is. It would be rare to find a partner who "gets it", though.

Yes I agree. Most followers would probably feel this as rejection. As if you couldnt be bothered.

Personally I would probably focus on the rhythm. Dance to the bass rhythm or dance just to the cadence of the beat.

Interesting. I'm sure this is one reason for the way milongueros dance. The melancholy and nostalgia would tend to make you focus on the bass notes rather than the frothy top notes.

I'm sure it's just the sort of thing that Rick McGarrey talks about :rolleyes:

[Captain Jep]

By everyone's responses I understand there is an opinion that emotional expression is very dynamic with many factors affecting the what emotion is provoked/felt. And yes to be authentic the emotions have to be yours, spontaneous. It may be that tango expression has changed since tango's incubation. As the circumstances from then till now have changed, but one thing is certain emotions have not changed, one thing which is constant in this. Just that the times and approach to tango have changed. Jeeze, to much philosophy here, IT'S JUST A DANCE, ENJOY IT!



Yes yes. But are we allowed to? Heh :p

[dchester]

Which means what in this context? :confused:
Emphasizing the connection and not the steps, more weight sharing, more slow simple steps, more pauses. Basically the walking hug thing.

[tanjive]

Personally I do not tend to consciously think of the emotion of the song. I think about interpreting the energy of the dance. Less of actually thinking the better really. Maybe it is just word semantics.

Many milongas are quick and light and tend to have a fun spirit, or high energy. One song with bird tweets makes me smile and laugh a bit. I don't think I must act happy to those and really sad to others. My movements are with the sympathy of the tune.

Others particularly some sung tunes have a very funeral durge feel which is lacking in energy. In the same way you do not run around a funeral grinning, my movements are slower more understated. Sometimes I feel a little sadder after those tandas. Am I trying to act and feel sad, no. Hopefully I came away with feeling I enjoyed the dance and being connected to the person through synchonicity. I don't want to end the song depressed and then want to leave.

However as someone who cannot understand the Spanish lyrics I do loose a little knowledge and channel of interpretation. Othe times I feel it is better I do not as I guess some have lyrics that are not in keeping to the spirit/energy of the song. Black humour over a sad musical tune.

[mshedgehog]

Interesting idea from captain jep there.

I think the process of turning a painful emotion into music has a function, it expresses it in a way that is empathic but not painful. E lucevan le stelle for example is a very sad song but that doesn't mean it doesn't make you happy to listen to it sung really well.

So there is more to it than dancing emotion in a literal way.

What nobody has brought out yet is the distinction between that and bringing something else - from your day or whatever - into the dance. I'm not sure that that's what you want - you wouldn't want to be dancing in an angry way because you had a bad day at work. But still, you do bring that emotion with you, and the process of dancing helps to transform and overwhelm it with whatever comes from the music and the partner.

But you might find some music is better than other music for that. For example my current teacher finds dancing to Biagi very good for dispelling a bad temper, and dancing with her under those conditions is a lot of fun.

[Joy In Motion]

I agree with mkjohnson's post. Very nicely written...

It would be rare to find a partner who "gets it", though.

Good point, Steve. I think this can't be emphasized enough. Your focus should be on finding a way to use the music as a bridge to conversing with your partner. You won't necessarily have the same feeling and expression, but you can still exchange ideas and explore each other's experience and find which ways you are able to connect. But if you plow ahead with what you think the music is saying and don't pay attention to whether your partner is getting it, to me there's something wrong. That would be like having a one-sided conversation without caring whether the other person is interested in what you have to say or whether they also have an opinion on the subject. To me connection and musicality should be the main focus. If you are authentic with those two things (along with your movement choices), I think the emotion will just flow naturally as you get more experience and grow. Of course there will still be those challenging dances where your partner doesn't seem to acknowledge the connection (i.e., you) or the music, but let's just happily pretend that such a thing never occurs. :)

[Zoopsia59]

if you feel something, you'll express it naturally, depending on the mood, your partner, your music and so on.

Yeah... I don't really think about it. I just dance and whatever needs to be expressed by my soul is either expressed or not, depending on other more technical factors (such as whether I'm struggling to follow)

[Zoopsia59]

Even if you don't "feel" it as an emotion, you are still more connected to the music if you "dance it".
'

I find it more important to connect to my partner than the music. If the song is moody, but for some reason he's in a silly mood, then I'll play along. It makes for a rather weird dance to ignore the mood of the leader while expressing an emotion in the music, especially if you don't even feel the emotion in the music anyway. The music couldn't care less if I ignore it.. the person I'm dancing with usually cares quite a bit if I ignore him. (that said, I do find it very difficult to ignore the music completely... it works out much better when the leader and the music both mesh with something that I can feel too)

[Zoopsia59]

Jeeze, to much philosophy here, IT'S JUST A DANCE, ENJOY IT!.

Hey, wait a minute... Didn't you start this thread? :p

[Dave Bailey]

Interesting idea from captain jep there.

I think the process of turning a painful emotion into music has a function, it expresses it in a way that is empathic but not painful. E lucevan le stelle for example is a very sad song but that doesn't mean it doesn't make you happy to listen to it sung really well.

So there is more to it than dancing emotion in a literal way.
I'm reminded of the description of Van Gogh's work from that Doctor Who episode a couple of weeks back:

"He transformed the pain of his tormented life into ecstatic beauty. Pain is easy to portray, but to use your passion and pain to portray the ecstasy and joy and the magnificence of our world... no one had ever done it before."

[bordertangoman]

I'm reminded of the description of Van Gogh's work from that Doctor Who episode a couple of weeks back:

"He transformed the pain of his tormented life into ecstatic beauty. Pain is easy to portray, but to use your passion and pain to portray the ecstasy and joy and the magnificence of our world... no one had ever done it before."

he's a bloody rubbish Dr Who then; how about the MArtyrdom of San Sebastian by Perugino
( and countless others); religious ecstasy was a common renaissance theme.

And Vogh's paintings arnt about that. Or were you being ironic DB?

I suspect someone had been tinkering with the script; what he should have said was: but about Davros and the Daleks

"He transformed the pain of his tormented life into ecstatic beauty. Pain is easy to portray, but to use your passion and pain to portray the ecstasy and joy and the magnificence of world domination . no one had ever done it before."

[Dave Bailey]

he's a bloody rubbish Dr Who then;
Sacrilege! There's no such thing as a rubbish Dr Who; some are merely more brilliant than others.

how about the MArtyrdom of San Sebastian by Perugino ( and countless others); religious ecstasy was a common renaissance theme.
The point was that portraying ecstasy through pain was unusual.

And Vogh's paintings arnt about that. Or were you being ironic DB?
No, just trying to use that description - which may or may not be correct, I don't care - to describe a concept.

You heretic you.

[bordertangoman]

Sacrilege! There's no such thing as a rubbish Dr Who; some are merely more brilliant than others..

Matt Smith is like a happy clappy vicar; absolute rubbish and he's trying to emulate, sorry imitate, Tennant and failing

The point was that portraying ecstasy through pain was unusual..

IT wasnt or isnt....



You heretic you.

you are too kind..