Learning to walk before you can dance

[MadamSamba]

My tango teacher is obsessed (and rightly so) with tango walks. Every class, be it for beginners or advanced students, starts with at least 10 minutes practicing tango walks, so I'm surprised to hear people say things like "tango walks, what are they?" or "yeah, we talked about it in our first lesson".

I realised how rare this teaching method was the other day when I attended a fairly large milonga and someone came up to me and said, "you're obviously XXX's student". He added that he could spot us a mile away because we "walked" properly.

How much "walking" have you done and do you think it's important? In your eyes, when people have learned to "walk" properly, how is their dancing different from someone who hasn't had the same emphasis placed on tango walks?

[Sagitta]

To spend time walking is important. This cannot be emphasized enough. After that even doing the dreaded 8 count basic is recommended in order to familiarize oneself with the music. I know in principle how to do many moves but I'm not yet comfortable with the basics to do so, and from my experience with other dances I know that the better I get my basics down the better I will be when I progress to more complicated moves.

[Haplo]

The local instructors here likewise, always carry on with the "walking" exercise. Walking is important, but not as important as posture (depending on the style of tango you learning) in my view. Particularly in open embrace.

I somehow think that all these walking exercises originated from the movie “The Tango Lesson” in which it was the first thing she learnt in Tango was walking. Also I found that each instructor has his or her own version on what walking is. Very annoying and confusing I'm sure for new students.

[Sagitta]

Really!! :? I thought that walking was just one step in front of another, by yourself or with a partner....then there are 4 types of walking steps which make up the walk...is this what you are referring to?
La caminata - the walk: el paseo(the stroll), la cedencia (the cadence counting step), la caza (the chase), la cunita (the cradle/rock-step). I think that it is important to practice all 4 basics of la caminata when practicing walking.

[newbie]

The first two contributions in this thread (question by M'am Samba and answer by Sagitta) can also be found on another forum, both dated July, 5th, 7:45 :
http://www.allaboutar.com/bbmes/100/5.html

It seems that this new forum site also borrowed contributions from www.tangonoticias.com

[Sagitta]

Thanks for pointing this out newbie!! Shocking. :shock:

[Cats]

Yeah I go to a few teachers that start each lesson with walking and stepping in place.


>^..^<

[bordertangoman]

The local instructors here likewise, always carry on with the "walking" exercise. Walking is important, but not as important as posture (depending on the style of tango you learning) in my view. Particularly in open embrace.

I somehow think that all these walking exercises originated from the movie “The Tango Lesson” in which it was the first thing she learnt in Tango was walking. Also I found that each instructor has his or her own version on what walking is. Very annoying and confusing I'm sure for new students.

The main role of a teacher is to annoy and confuse, so saying here is some more........... :wink: :wink:

The Importance of Walking in Tango

1. The beat is at a walking pace (or the pace of a steady heartbeat someone once said)

2. Walking with your partner is the essence of tango. The connection between leader and follower is fundamental to dance well. I signal, she moves, I follow.

3. Stopping, starting and the neutral position. On how not to dance like a train…. When a train starts to move the links between the carriages open and when the train slows or stops the carriages then bump into each other. In tango the leader and the follower do NOT want to move this way. (One lady made a comment to me about her "buffers" but I did not understand. I think maybe she was being rude. Or funny) The movement needs to be smooth and together whether the embrace is closed or open whether it is Milonga, Tango or Vals.
In between steps one should be standing perfectly balanced on one foot the other barely above the ground ankles closed.. From here you have a choice of which direction to step (or pivot). The leader when he wants to stop has to signal early -–with his own body of course so the follower has time to check her momentum. A good exercise for beginners is to walk at a half beat and pause in the neutral position between steps - on one’s own and with a partner.

4. Smoothness, Axis and Balance. In Tango and Vals the body should glide with minimum of up and down movement.
This is achieved by a slight bend in the knee – but as little as possible. We are not aiming to walk like Groucho Marx. One has to be responsible for one’s own axis. Any exercise that improves balance will be useful. But one also needs to be able to stay balanced with one’s weight tilted slightly forward. Here the toes and the balls of the foot need toning to do their part, but the key to balance is to………

5. Dissociation: This simply means we have our chest maintaining a connection with our partner while our hips and therefore legs are facing another direction. This allows walking alongside, and a countless number of possibilities of taking a different step to our partner, but still accompanying them.

6. Weight change; Parallel and Cross System: As a leader we need to communicate a weight change that we want the woman to follow, and to disguise the one that we don’t. This leads into a variety of contra steps that if the leader can use to move from Parallel to Cross Systems and back, and to facilitate backward ochos. Of course what helps here is knowing what our partner is on by feeling where her weight is. (I have suggested that leaders count the steps or go mentally left –right- left –right so they know where the follower’s weight is ; this is the King Canute system of teaching :-showing what doesn’t work and what does)

7. Then we can start playing with the steps: using contra-steps, rocking steps; feints; change of length of stride; acceleration; rebound. I find that when people start learning Milonga in a close embrace when they come back to dancing tango they will have improved, because you have to keep it simple and repetitious because of the tempo of the music. Keep doing the same four steps and stay in beat is hard enough and there’s no time for the leader to plan anything complicated or anything at all.

8. The Most Important Thing about Walking is To Listen to the Music. Always 51% attention to the music. I see people so focussed on the steps that they don’t hear the music stop, let alone all the wonderful things the composer and the musicians are creating. Let the music suggest how you walk.

[DancePoet]

We practiced "tango walks" in my first beginner AT lesson, and it was mentioned we would do some more in other beginner classes.

I found it interesting that my current ballroom instructor also started teaching International style tango with a basic walk like exercise very similar to the beginning AT lesson.

[Sagitta]

We practiced "tango walks" in my first beginner AT lesson, and it was mentioned we would do some more in other beginner classes.

I found it interesting that my current ballroom instructor also started teaching International style tango with a basic walk like exercise very similar to the beginning AT lesson.

Cross-over fertilization?

Walk walk and walk. This is how I want to learn AT. Learn to walk straight, to the left and to the right of follower. Learn to walk with a couple quick small steps and slow long steps...Once I can play comfortably then I will do ochos and turns and other steps. Some people consider walking to the left and right intermediate steps!! I can do left and I'm working on walking to the right now. I guess I have a plan and I'm sticking to it, though.

[MadamSamba]

Or you can learn to dance and then walk, as I discovered to my embarrassment the other day. :)

I've been ill and haven't tangoed in ages. I went for my first milonga in some time the other night and was so rusty that my teacher actually walked the entire dance with me _ and he's taught me for ages!!!

It was most humilating! :)

[Sagitta]

Or you can learn to dance and then walk, as I discovered to my embarrassment the other day. :)

I've been ill and haven't tangoed in ages. I went for my first milonga in some time the other night and was so rusty that my teacher actually walked the entire dance with me _ and he's taught me for ages!!!

It was most humilating! :) What is wrong/humiliating about walking. This is what borikensalsero says in a salsa thread that also is applicable here, I think:

"what people here describe is that the feeling they get doesn't change no matter how much or little they do, so to them, they dance because of how it feels rather than how many different and challenging moves they can do. To them dancing isn't a challenge, but rather an emotional journey, where the challenge is how they feel on someone arms as opposed to how many different ways we can hold someone, where if they were to worry about how to keep someone interested they would missout in the love they feel for the music and the connection it creates in the dancer.

For instance, when you have wild lustfull sex, you will be jumping off the walls, doing things even kama sutra didn't do, yet when you make love those very characteristics that you do in lustfull sex will be absent, instead they will be replaced by long slow embraces of each other, if moving from position it won't be to one that is more creative nor fun but one where you will be able to see each other and share the emotions you both feel, an ear distance away from say and feeling I LOVE YOU, not THAT WAS FUN. and why these folks don't get tired of making love, for to them, it is ok to go wild and have sex but the feeling one gets for making love will never be in the same ballpark than one felt during sex, even if sex is of outmost joy.

Two different views of the same entitiy, a person that has felt deep love will rather not choose to spend their time feeling the fun of fun, when they can feel the fun of love... Everything done with love will always feel stronger..."

[salsamale]

Tangueros, how long did it take you to learn how to walk/ to become happy with your walk? Any tips for a beginner? Thanks in advance :).

p.s. Are there any Tangueras, who enjoy just walking? The reason I ask is that I can see myself eventually enjoying a very simple AT, similar to how I enjoy a simple (but fast) merengue or simple (but sensual) bachata. Are Tangueras in it for the moves and embelishments, or are there Tangueras out there, who are happy just walking all night long?

[Peaches]

~1.5 years into this AT thing...still not happy with my walk... There are times when it feels good, when I catch a glimpse in a mirror and I like the way it looks, when I've been complimented. But it's still a work in progress, and I'm sure it always will be.

...not going to stop me from enjoying myself...

Only advice I can give you is to keep dancing. And take some private lessons.

[Peaches]

p.s. Are there any Tangueras, who enjoy just walking? The reason I ask is that I can see myself eventually enjoying a very simple AT, similar to how I enjoy a simple (but fast) merengue or simple (but sensual) bachata. Are Tangueras in it for the moves and embelishments, or are there Tangueras out there, who are happy walking all night long?I guess the question for me is, how do you define "just walking" versus "moves and embellishments?"

Is a giro just walking? Is milonga con traspie just walking? Are mordidas embellishments? What's that line?

I generally don't do embellishments. They just aren't me. I love sacadas, but not having them is fine. I love leg wraps, but not having them is fine.

One of my absolute favorite leaders, who's actually really good, is my favorite because he plays. He'll lead comparatively simple things, but it's like the entire tanda is a joke. And it's an absolute blast. Not that I want that every time, but it's great fun. And, like I said, it's relatively simple things.

I recently danced with a leader for the first time who kept things simple. (It was a milonga.) But I had the most fun with the simple weight changes/side steps and rock steps that he was playing with. He played with speed, and rise and fall, and syncopations. It was an absolute blast.

So long as you do what you do with the music, it's fun.

[salsamale]

Giro, milonga con traspie, mordidas? In my group class, I am still just learning to walk in open position, focusing on leading with the chest. Does walking/ leading get any easier in close embrace?

...
One of my absolute favorite leaders, who's actually really good, is my favorite because he plays. He'll lead comparatively simple things, but it's like the entire tanda is a joke. And it's an absolute blast. Not that I want that every time, but it's great fun. And, like I said, it's relatively simple things.

I recently danced with a leader for the first time who kept things simple. (It was a milonga.) But I had the most fun with the simple weight changes/side steps and rock steps that he was playing with. He played with speed, and rise and fall, and syncopations. It was an absolute blast.

So long as you do what you do with the music, it's fun.
I like the sound of this.

The reason for the p.s. is that for me, the tangueros who catch my eye, always seem to be the ones who keep it simple. For the tangueras, what catches your eye? Is AT just another excuse to buy shoes :)?

[jhpark]

overall it's easier to communicate your intention and lead when you're chest to chest, yes. there are little things that are more difficult in close, and certain figures need to be adjusted (things you can get away with by just rotating your upper body in open, you need to rotate your entire body in close). but overall i'd say close is easier.

as for just walking being okay... it's a great place to start. i would learn walking, a couple simple things, learn how to do them well, learn how to vary them to music.... with the things peaches mentioned -- height, syncopation, length, energy -- and you have a follower who can follow that stuff, then a simple dance can be very enjoyable for both.

i'll always reserve a little block of time with my private lessons to 'just dance' without working on anything in particular, and i often begin by thinking, i'm gonna throw in as many figures as i can musically and with good technique (and i've been doing this for a couple years, so i could theoretically toss them in pretty often by now). but i get into simple dancing instead, and when it works, it works so well that i forget to put in anything like a volcada, or ocho cortada (which are simple but just not a common figure for me), or blocks, or cadenas, or stuff like that... it turns into just walking, ochos, and giros.

but i think overall, you will end up trying to integrate everything. walking, playing with the walking, figures (also varying them) as much as you can while making it natural.

i'm not sure if there's some upper limit to how many figures you want to put in. maybe, if you can do figures so welll that they're totally natural for you and your follower, and you can vary the energy and stuff, and do them all musically, you can just do figures continually -- after all, figures (apart from the off axis stuff) are also just steps and pivots, like walking... i dunno

[Twirly]

Simple is great. When I look at dancers I mainly look at how the man is holding the woman, his posture etc and if she looks comfortable. That's the most important thing. Simple steps with feeling + good technique and playing with the music could be a perfect dance.

[spectator]

I'm with T!

tango is all about the music! A dance that consists entirely of walking and variations of walking can be fun, suprising, intense etc etc but only if it's with the music!

I say this on every thread:

dancing= using your body to interpret the music-you can do this in all kinds of ways but walking can be the most effective.

not dancing= making a series of repetitive (or not) movements espec ially patterns and figures which have no relationship to the music.

It doesn't matter what you do, as long as you are musical. therefore we cannot get enough of leaders who can walk and express the music within that wALK. ganchos, boleos, vulcadas, sacadas, giros, ochos etc etc boring boring boring if you aren't using them to interpret the music....

I think ages ago m i l e s said something idiotic about the music not really mattering and being background noise. Apparently that's not an uncommon view.

[bastet]

I've had some surprisingly intense dances that were walking and simple variations on walking, done well to the music. I love that. I can do ganchos and boleos and all that, but if someone is leading those to me with no relation to the music then it's certainly less fun. If I had to choose durung a dance, I'd do the simpler dance to the music to the one with the complicated one (even if he's a good leader) that is done with no regard for the music...and believe me- good leading skills don't automatically mean musicality!

[Ampster]

Tangueros, how long did it take you to learn how to walk/ to become happy with your walk? Any tips for a beginner? Thanks in advance :).


It took me a year to get my walk to where I wanted it to feel and look.

My advice to beginners? PATIENCE! Patince, patience...:cool: Learn the basics above all else, before learning the fancy stuff. Some of the best dances you'll ever do are the simplest ones with a good follow, simply walking to the music, and leading it well.

All too often, beginners want to do fancy steps (e.i. ganchos, boleos, sacadas, molinetes, embelishments, combinations....) and try to learn and memorize. It doesn't work. As a matter of fact, when you adopt this approach you get spotted right away on the floor because it just does not look good at all. You may think it does, but it ends up lacking the basic essence of Tango... Proper walking. Some beginners even try to compensate by concentrating on fancy steps and embelishments. These never take the place of good walking. If you try to do embelish on bad walking, it makes it look even worse.


Without knowing how to walk, it looks sooo contrived. I have seen so many beginners try to do too much too soon, take too many classes, and just overload. They disappear from the tango scene altogether in frustration. Don't rush it. Good Tango is not an instant thing.

[salsamale]

Thanks for everyone's insight on this - much appreciated :).

[Steve Pastor]

Tangueros, how long did it take you to learn how to walk/ to become happy with your walk? Any tips for a beginner?
My 2 cents is that you should concentrate on: #1 walking with something in the music (there is usually a predominant rhythm), #2 work on having correct posture while you walk. Unless you see someone who you absolutely must copy stylistically, think less about how you put your foot down, etc. and more about moving naturally (but with good (tango) posture).

"Just walking" works if it feels like you are really connected to your partner, rather than taking your steps together.

Does walking/ leading get any easier in close embrace?
It gets easier if you continue to work on it, and have a partner who "gives back" to you to make it work (You can't do a partner dance by yourself.), and a good teacher (or a partner whom you respect) who continues to correct your bad habits. Me, I think, for most people, apilado - or sharing more weight - makes close embrace work much better than not sharing more weight. But training yourself to always keep your weight forward can be a bear.

[Ampster]

It took me a year to get my walk to where I wanted it to feel and look.


Oh, and to add to my earlier rant. The reason why it took me this long for me to say that my "Walk" is marginally acceptable, was because it took me at least a year to "Read" the rhythm of the music. Once I truly got walking to work together with the music, then wonderful things started to happen.

When I say "Read" the music, I'm not talking about understanding the words (Ignore them). I'm talking about interpreting the rhythm in Tango. If you listen intently, you'll notice that Tango music changes rhythm several times within the same song (unlike other dances where the rhythm is consistent). Once your able to recognize how Tango music flows and ebbs, then you change the rhythm and intensity of your walk to be in tune.

This was MY turning point, my epiphany.

[spectator]

3 years- still not happy with my walk. It's not so bad in 3.5" heels, but in flats, yuuuuck. On the upside I am now able to disguise this with some embellishments-and they are mine! I resisted the temptation to just do the Geraldine and am finding my own.

[Dave Bailey]

Tangueros, how long did it take you to learn how to walk/ to become happy with your walk? Any tips for a beginner? Thanks in advance :).
I'll let you know when it happens (I've been learning for 18 months now, BTW)

[Me]

Percell is always stressing to us to find the 'middle.' To collect with bent legs (middle) and then in our stride have straight legs, body completely in the center of the legs (middle.) It sounds a bit odd when spoken but it makes sense in class. :) It takes a lot of work, but once you get the hang of it it helps with balance, with using your legs, etc. I've still got some work to do... In fact I got fussed at this weekend for dancing on 'straight' legs. I need to bend my knees more. (Ahh, it's never perfect! Why, why???)