Woman or Man forward on the 1?

[borikensalsero]

On friday night I was having this intersting discussion with a lady who gave me a million and one reasons as to why a woman must go foward on the 1 as opposed to the man.

She went on to even explain that the most dynamic (she forgot to mention not necessarily) part of the song is the 1,2,3, therefore it is the time a woman has to be "showed off" as it goes best with the music. This goes against all possible logic that there is, to me, but to her it made perfect sense.

Of course all I could think was the she had a predetermined idea of dancing, hence her reaction. To me there isn't a difference, it is all the same, but if I was to go for one, the most obvious would be the man stepping forward on the 1 as opposed to the woman.

But speaking of reasons, what could some of the reasons be that a man ought to go forward, or a woman on the 1 or 2.

[squirrel]

the man is leading... he should show his partner when to start... therefore, he should start on 1... my opinion... :)

[mellody43]

On 1: Man forward, woman back.

[mellody43]

Please, please, boriken, change your avatar! You're scaring the children.[/code]

[Sagitta]

Well as a small aside doesn't the woman step forward on 1 for ET on2? I guess the reasons why a woman should step forward on 1 would be the same as for dancing this style vis' breaking on1 style where the man steps forward on 1. Unfortunately, I'm only familiar with the on 1 and on 3 styles so cannot really comment much. :oops:

However, by stepping forward one is making "an advance". Since it is the role of the man/leader to ask, to step forth onto the plate, I would say that it is logical for the leader to step forward on the 1, or even more generally to make his/her first step a step forward, whether it be power on2, on1, on3....

[borikensalsero]

Well as a small aside doesn't the woman step forward on 1 for ET on2? I guess the reasons why a woman should step forward on 1 would be the same as for dancing this style vis' breaking on1 style where the man steps forward on 1. Unfortunately, I'm only familiar with the on 1 and on 3 styles so cannot really comment much. :oops:

However, by stepping forward one is making "an advance". Since it is the role of the man/leader to ask, to step forth onto the plate, I would say that it is logical for the leader to step forward on the 1, or even more generally to make his/her first step a step forward, whether it be power on2, on1, on3....

Yeap, I agree with all your comments, that is the "logical" explanation I was commenting to her. I just don't see a "cultural" reason as to why the stronger beats, and start of a song should have the woman go first.

I see strong beats = lead/man softer beats the grace and sensuality of woman in and follow.

The start for a man to approach a woman and the woman to react to it.

Its wierd, I don't care but based on what she told me, i just don't see any good reasoning that a woman, because of how much she has to dance, should use the 1,2,3 for power moves, and reverse the role of the leader. To me, if I want to play the sensual game, I'm going to do my thing first, then have the lady react... Dance, because of that social norm interaction, should and would make sense to follow that.

[borikensalsero]

Please, please, boriken, change your avatar! You're scaring the children.[/code]

Imma try to find a hot one. :D

[Vince A]

Oh BABY . . . what are the pigtails for????

[borikensalsero]

Oh BABY . . . what are the pigtails for????

I go nuts when I dance, so I present them as objects for the ladies to keep me from wondering aim-lessly around the dance floor.

[DiAnAoN1]

When I dance On1 I always break back but when I dance On2 I always step in place on 1 then break forward on 2. But I dont really think it matters who breaks forward first as long as it's done on time. Also an instructor once told me that the 1,2,3 belong to the man and the 5,6,7 belong to the woman and thats the time where she should be "shown off" by her partner or she should show herself off (doing hiprolls, styling, etc).

[Vince A]

Oh BABY . . . what are the pigtails for????

I go nuts when I dance, so I present them as objects for the ladies to keep me from wondering aim-lessly around the dance floor.
That has to be the MUTHA of all avatars!

[tj]

When I dance On1 I always break back but when I dance On2 I always step in place on 1 then break forward on 2. But I dont really think it matters who breaks forward first as long as it's done on time. Also an instructor once told me that the 1,2,3 belong to the man and the 5,6,7 belong to the woman and thats the time where she should be "shown off" by her partner or she should show herself off (doing hiprolls, styling, etc).

How fascinating! I've heard the reverse, where that the follow has time to do her own styling, etc, on the 1,2,3, and it's the 5-6-7 where she has to be ready for the lead to spin her, etc.

This is what makes salsa fun, IMHO. The freedom to do it differently.

[salsachinita]

Just lead and I shall do my best to follow 8) !

[squirrel]

Salsachinita... I agree 100%!!!

[Danish Guy]

Oh no, we are not starting a on5 trend here are we?

[Sabor]

hmm.. to avoid this problem.. kiss the salsera on the 1.. which ever direction she takes it.. after that, she will go along with u just fine.. whichever direction u take it :mrgreen:

[squirrel]

Sabor... :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

and how do the salseras react to kissing...? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Sabor]

ahem.. kissing on the cheak that is! :lol:

usually like so.... :oops:

and sometimes like so.... :kissme:

and other times like so.... :shock: :nope:

:lol:

[squirrel]

Sabor... don't they ever slap you...? :twisted: :twisted:

Come on, behave! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

R

PS do the lime-green socksies have anything to do with your behaviour...? :wink:

[Sagitta]

How can they if he is holding both hands? Or quickly moves away after a sneak kiss atack?

[Sabor]

nice going Sagitta!.. we could name this move the 'Sneak Kiss Attack" and teach it to as many salseras as possible! :P

[Sagitta]

Yup. One way to to do it is do a two handed inside turn, followed by an out of the way, with another inside turn into a wrap with right hand down. She is trapped, you launch your attack, then unwrap her into a couple spins into open position.

Or the casino style beso move...

Actually there are more sexy moves then the kiss. Take the basic in and out move...you go in on the first half of the basic, and then do a hip roll together, or you can get her to do a booty shake. Good for the slower tempo songs.

Or, even easier, just do veils and combs. Not enough people do them. :wink: :)

[ino]

ya I kinda got lost with this on sunday when I took a workshop with Frankie Martinez. Martinez tought on 2 and the way he tought had the lead going back on their first step(2). This totally threw my counting off and I can't learn w/o knowing what everything is supposed to do on what count so the on 2 going backwards thing screwed me. I got the shines down pretty well but when it came to partner work I got pretty screwed up when he started counting. It was a little hard for me to resist the urge to go forwards on 1, but I think it is forward on 1 and back on 2 or maybe u can go forwards on 2 but right now I'm just gonna stick to forward on 1....I'll pick the other stuff up a little later :wink:

[Pacion]

ino, :lol: welcome to the world of On2 :lol: Frankie M is gorgeous isn't he :D :banana: :D

Okay, I have, ahem, read some of the thoughts re why the woman should start on one ie. the man giving her the impulse and oppportunity for her to shine. BUT from recollection, in the waltz AND cha cha, the woman steps backwards for her first step :roll: Oh, and I believe in Curacao, the women dance stepping forward when dancing On1 :lol: Therefore, my take is, wear steelcapped shoes to dance in :lol:

[DiAnAoN1]

ya I kinda got lost with this on sunday when I took a workshop with Frankie Martinez. Martinez tought on 2 and the way he tought had the lead going back on their first step(2). This totally threw my counting off and I can't learn w/o knowing what everything is supposed to do on what count so the on 2 going backwards thing screwed me. I got the shines down pretty well but when it came to partner work I got pretty screwed up when he started counting. It was a little hard for me to resist the urge to go forwards on 1, but I think it is forward on 1 and back on 2 or maybe u can go forwards on 2 but right now I'm just gonna stick to forward on 1....I'll pick the other stuff up a little later :wink:

Yeah same thing happened to me when I first started learning on2, I would be fine by myself and once we started to dance if the instructor was counting I would break back on 5 instead of 6...it was really confusing and frustrating and I felt like I was a beginner all over again :( but now that I know a little more I love it...it feels so smooth and just right :D

[Genesius Redux]

The question isn't why should the man step forward on one. It's why the follower should follow the lead.

Because if the follower doesn't, the follower doesn't get to dance.

[salsaForfun]

ya I kinda got lost with this on sunday when I took a workshop with Frankie Martinez. Martinez tought on 2 and the way he tought had the lead going back on their first step(2). This totally threw my counting off and I can't learn w/o knowing what everything is supposed to do on what count so the on 2 going backwards thing screwed me. I got the shines down pretty well but when it came to partner work I got pretty screwed up when he started counting. It was a little hard for me to resist the urge to go forwards on 1, but I think it is forward on 1 and back on 2 or maybe u can go forwards on 2 but right now I'm just gonna stick to forward on 1....I'll pick the other stuff up a little later :wink:

Some advanced dancers of this style start forward on 6,7 (for the leader).
You can also dance using forward on 1 on the right foot then forward on 2 and back on the 3. It is still breaking on 2. that is the way Jason Molina and Jhesus Aponte teach I remember well.

[Sagitta]

Some advanced dancers of this style start forward on 6,7 (for the leader).
You can also dance using forward on 1 on the right foot then forward on 2 and back on the 3. It is still breaking on 2. that is the way Jason Molina and Jhesus Aponte teach I remember well.

The first is Eddie Torres on2

The second is power on2/mambo...

[salsaForfun]

Some advanced dancers of this style start forward on 6,7 (for the leader).
You can also dance using forward on 1 on the right foot then forward on 2 and back on the 3. It is still breaking on 2. that is the way Jason Molina and Jhesus Aponte teach I remember well.

The first is Eddie Torres on2

The second is power on2/mambo...

I fear you missed the point. What I described is the same pattern eddie Torres use but reverse. The leader goes forward on 1 (right foot) and on 2 (left foot) before changing direction. That why it is still eddie torres style. Jason Molina (a former ET Student) said he uses this way because it is easier for the on 1 dancers.

When dancing Power 2 you never step on 1 (some people tap on 1 in place in order to get started, but later no step on 1 or 5). It doesn't matter if you start back or forth on 2. Still power 2. Angel Rodriguez from Razzm'Tazz steps back on 2 with right foot for the leader. Many others start forward on 2 with left foot for the leader.

[Sagitta]

I got it...just thinking of things lightly differently..that's all. on3 a lot of people either step in place but I've also seen the leader actually stepping forward for 1-2, then forward again for 3....so was applying a similar reasoning here. But I got it now. :)

[borikensalsero]

me three, I dance power2, but will mostly allow the girl to start fowards on the 2 (I got tired of girls coming off a shine routine at me on the 2 instead of the 6, which we had began dancing to if I began the dance). Surprisingly it is hard to adjust when you are used to going in one direction all your dance life. To me they are the same (1 and 5), so I don't care... But now, for the sake of not confusing us, I just go with the flow. She gets to pick where we begin!