Leaders Following???

[Vince A]

Hey, since the last time we discussed this . . . are there anymore of you leaders doing any more following? I've really been struck by it!

Actually, I've been working a lot with a female who wants to learn to lead, so I've had to switch roles . . . and of course . . . I need either her or my wife around . . . some of those "follow" moves can be tricky . . . hell, I've heard of it, but never did do a French Cross until recently!

Anyone else???

[Jmatthew]

I've tried to learn to follow all of the dances I lead. So far I'm okay at Nightclub and Waltz/Foxtrot following, but the rest still stink. I can fake a Lindy or West Coast lead enough to test moves, but I'm not doing it nearly right. :/

I think it's one of the best things a lead can do to improve his dancing though, so I'm definately working on it. :)

[Genesius Redux]

My teachers show me follow stuff all the time. It helps you understand the lead better.

[etchuck]

Absolutely... this summer, there are more men than women taking our swing and salsa classes, so I've been taking the opportunity to learn following and technique related to that. Tonight for instance, our salsa class was +8 on leaders at the start of the lesson (the followers came late tonight for some reason, but we were still +3 on men).

It is fascinating to follow, and I probably need a bit more of a *******er before the upcoming Jill-and-Jack fun competition in mid-August...

[Sagitta]

Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time getting follow practice time. On the monday night classes I sometimes am the follow if they are extra leaders...then when I teach beginner leaders I get my chance to do the follow part, and I take advantage of that. Oh, yes in AT we had an opportunity to do so when learning turns. :) Hmm, so I'm getting some time in. But, I would love to get some more, and more, and more!!

[suek]

I've been learning to lead! Eek. Ack. It's been so so so hard. The hardest concept, for a world-class follow in training, is that I don't get to wait; I get to initiate. Sheesh.

I'm learning leading in balboa and blues, two dances where we are in a close closed position much of the time and the lead is all body. This is a good way for me to learn. Of course now I'm also learning open-position leads. Damn that's hard. I bow to leaders...all this and watching what's happening on the dance floor as well?

I am doing this because I am addicted to balboa and there are not enough leads in my area for me. Now I can dance with follows as well. And I'm getting lots of encouragement and good feedback. Will report more as things progress.

[Sagitta]

Blues? What is blues dancing? I've never heard of this before. :oops:

I think that AT definitely requires more body leading then balboa...more intricate with subtle leads.

[IndyDancer]

I decided to learn the lead part at the last rumba group class session at our studio. It was so helpful to me, that my husband Doug decided he would try to learn the follow. However, when our instructor had people rotate, we found that not a single guy was willing to dance with Doug!!!

So I had to dance with him the whole time. Come on, what is the big deal? Girls dance with girls all the time at our studio and no one has a problem with that!

[etchuck]

I congratulate your husband for at least trying to follow. Yeah, it's a bit weird for guys to dance with guys, especially with a relatively sensual dance like rumba. The guys in my class sometimes have to do a double-take whenever me and the the club president decide to follow in a class, but we're very cool with it. Now I think everyone in our group is too.

I'm going to guess... was your instructor male or female? If it were a male who dances follow-steps often, I think there wouldn't be as much resistance.

In contra dance, men dance with men, women dance with women, and everyone has a grand old time. It's silly to have these gender stereotypes, especially given that a lot of people who dance do not prescribe to hard-and-fast gender roles.

[IndyDancer]

You have a good point about Rumba being more "sensual." I didn't consider that. Maybe in swing it would not be an issue. :)

[etchuck]

Well, one of the more interesting fun dances that are done at ballroom competitions is the reverse-role rumba (lady leads, man follows). So just consider it that you're both halfway there. :)

[suek]

You have a good point about Rumba being more "sensual." I didn't consider that. Maybe in swing it would not be an issue. :)I find swing dancing can be quite sensual. Depending on the partner and music of course.
Blues? What is blues dancing? I've never heard of this before.Uhhh...dancing done to bluesy music? Okay okay. It's slow, it's black, it's sensual, and DNice has written about it more articulately (is this a word?) than I can before and I can't find it.

[Spitfire]

Hey, since the last time we discussed this . . . are there anymore of you leaders doing any more following? I've really been struck by it!

Actually, I've been working a lot with a female who wants to learn to lead, so I've had to switch roles . . . and of course . . . I need either her or my wife around . . . some of those "follow" moves can be tricky . . . hell, I've heard of it, but never did do a French Cross until recently!

Anyone else???

What is a French Cross?

[d nice]

Blues? What is blues dancing? I've never heard of this before. :oops:

Blues dancing is a genre of dances that evolved with the music. I could go on at length about the genre, but suffice to say it uses dance postures, an aesthetic, and rhythms, not too disimlar to Authentic Jazz and Lindy Hop.

I think that AT definitely requires more body leading then balboa...more intricate with subtle leads.

LOL... I'm guessing you haven't really done much pure Balboa. AT has different styles and moves that use arms as a method of transfering the neergy from the leader to the follower... pure Balboa never leaves chest to chest position and you are expected to be able to lead every move from 130 bpm to 310 bpm, and th elead should be felt clearly every time and yet be completely transparent. I'm not saying Balboa is more subtle, intricate or uses more body leads than Tango, but I defy anyone to find a dance that Balboa does not equal in that way.

[Sagitta]

Okay, d nice. I'll resume this discussion of balboa vs AT in 5 years. By then I figure I will have made my way back to doing substantial amounts of swing. :wink: :)

[Jmatthew]

I've taken a few classes lately where everyone had to continuousely switch roles, follow-lead-follow-lead...one of them was a blues class, which was interesting, since in the swing scene at least blues is considered pretty hot and steamy. :) Was fun though, and I think it really helped drive home the leading each step thing, and the passing back and forth the lead bit.

[goldfish]

last night a girl asked me to lead a blues number, and after the chaos that ensued - oh my god the body leading you are all talking about is soooo tough - , I TAKE MY HAT OFF to all you leaders that think on your feet, provide that superframe and decisively make up all that stuff on the spot! on the flip side, now i know what a really good follow feels like, and it's completely disarming to find a follow that valiantly follows and gives you a wonderful smile even though you both don't know where you're going

back to topic. right after that i was dancing lindy with a friend and stole the lead for a few counts. to my horror, he started having fun following and didn't want to take it back!! after a couple of charlestons, 4 lindy turns and 5 swingouts i was out of moves and begged him to lead again, only to have him give it back after a couple of phrases :lol: :lol: after i got over my initial stress we just hijacked each other and traded the lead back and forth... leads following? love it! especially in this case, cause he's more than a head taller than me, outweighs me by 30+pounds and is still a light follow :shock:

[swinginstyle]

Personally, I didn't get introduced to the idea of leads following until I had to understand the follow for teaching ballroom. Then, sometime last year, this guy and I decided to start switiching for west coast songs. Strangely enough, we were decent follows. So, nowadays, I enjoy following when I get the chance. I'm a better westie follow than a lindy follow, but I suppose I'll get better with practice.

My blues follow isn't too great. I guess I give too much weight and am not light enough. Also, I hear too many complaints about me not sticking my butt out enough for blues. Oh well.

I can follow various ballroom dances well. I can follow salsa very well with some leads. I haven't done a lot of role switching in that dance arena. I did severely pop my shoulder out. It was a combination of both poor lead and follow. Went one way and got torqued the other. So, sympathy goes out to the ladies.

Overall, I enjoy switching roles. It's a fun thing to do. Best way I heard it described: One of my students was asking about it because he saw me dancing with another guy in Columbia, MO and we were switching roles. He asked: "Is it kind of like you two are battling it out, trying to show each other up?"

Kind of, but not quite. It's fun nonetheless.

[Vince A]

Have any of you men, who follow, noticed anything about your body when you do this???

I have a beginner WCS student, and I have been working with her and her husband, so I've been doing a lot of following lately.

I've noticed myself in the mirrors as I'm doing this . . . I'm wiggling more . . . a little more slinky . . . trying to imitate a female follower more.

Is my "feminine side" coming out??? And why do I keep staring at my wife's open-toed, heeled dance shoes???

JUST KIDDING

[KevinL]

leaders doing any more following?
Personally, I didn't get introduced to the idea of leads following ...

I find it interesting that in a topic about switching dance roles that several of the responses seem to be stuck on "leaders following". If someone is following, they are a follower, not a leader. Even if the person only does the follower side for one song (or even part of a song) they are a follower, not a leader - at least for that song.

[Jmatthew]

I find it interesting that in a topic about switching dance roles that several of the responses seem to be stuck on "leaders following". If someone is following, they are a follower, not a leader. Even if the person only does the follower side for one song (or even part of a song) they are a follower, not a leader - at least for that song.

Ya but everyone has their "standard" role and considers themselves one or the other. Even the super-amazing instructors I've had who can do both fantastically well, at some point say they're really a follow or a leader, you just have to move WAY up the skill tree to find where one becomes better than the other, or they just decide they prefer one to the other.

Refering to oneself as a follower or a leader against one's current role is hardly problematic philosophically, although I suppose you could argue it's incorrect semantically, but I'd find that rather pedantic.

[pygmalion]

Yes, Jmatthew. I've only met one person who seemed to lead and follow equally well. It was like she had a lead persona and a follow persona which were completely different from each other. It was amazing. And even she said that, underneath it all, she was a follow. From the receiving end and by observing her, it was impossible to tell the difference. I guess she could feel it.

[Sagitta]

Yes, Jmatthew. I've only met one person who seemed to lead and follow equally well. It was like she had a lead persona and a follow persona which were completely different from each other. It was amazing. And even she said that, underneath it all, she was a follow. From the receiving end and by observing her, it was impossible to tell the difference. I guess she could feel it.

I agree, and Vince I do find myself trying to do follow styling when I'm a follow. The way one dances should match the role that one has chosen for a particular song, whether it be follower or ledaer.

[etchuck]

... I've noticed myself in the mirrors as I'm doing this . . . I'm wiggling more . . . a little more slinky . . . trying to imitate a female follower more.

Is my "feminine side" coming out??? And why do I keep staring at my wife's open-toed, heeled dance shoes???

JUST KIDDING

You sure you're staring down at her toes?

Actually, as I've been trying to learn following salsa (ballroom), I do try to sneak in a few follower flair moves just to get an idea of timing and the type of secure lead I'd need to be able to do that. Same thing with WCS, though I'm tending to swing out of a squared-up frame like I would if I were doing lindy.

My goal is to look up while I'm doing passes and turns. I always wonder why when I dance with some westies why they always look down (which of course is a bad thing in ballroom). It's as if they're looking down their chests/breasts when they're passing me.

[pygmalion]

It's a flirtation thing. Pure styling. :wink: When you're done with the pass, you make a big deal of looking back at the guy. You're talking with your eyes and head styling. At least, I do that. I blow kisses, too. Much fun. :D

[Vince A]

It's a flirtation thing. Pure styling. :wink: When you're done with the pass, you make a big deal of looking back at the guy. You're talking with your eyes and head styling. At least, I do that. I blow kisses, too. Much fun. :D
Can I have the next dance with you??? Will you lead or follow???