Ballroom Salsa

[mambochino]

hi there. can someone please explain to me how does one dance it. on1, on2, body motion & expression and how does it compare to the mambo, palladium style on2 and/or LA style on1.

Thank you kindly! :P

[Genesius Redux]

Welcome to DF, mambochino!

There are a whole bunch of threads on these topics--just scroll through the salsa forum and you'll find them. As for my own personal opinion, the difference between dancing "on 1" and "on 2." There are four beats in a measure. In "on 1" you move on 1. In "on 2" you move on 2.

I don't mean to be glib, but there is always so much discussion of this sort of thing that it mystifies me. Stylistic differences beyond that, "NY" and "LA" style, are sometimes dependent on who's doing the teaching and who the local salsa gurus are and where they've come from.

Cheers,

Genesius

[mambochino]

thank you.

no offense. but i m not asking about style, on1 on2 or on whatever. :D

i m asking the ballroom people how do they dance theie version of salsa and when they see some street style salsa, how does that pair up, what is the point of view in the differences...etc. :wink:

[Sagitta]

Mambochino click on link below. This thread is just what you want.

Salsa Club vs salsa ballroom (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2291)

Also, briefly. Ballroom salsa/mambo is stylistically very upright and bouncy and sharp angles. Street salsa is all about curves and flowing and relaxed dancing. When I see people of these two styles dancing side by side this is what comes to mind.

Do check out the link above though. I could go on and one in better and great detail then the above, but it is all there in that thread. No point in repeating oneself, n'est pas?

[mambochino]

Sagitta

thank you for the info. let me go there to take a look.

[mambochino]

after reading the first page of the link, it confirm my feeling about ballroom salsa!

ballroom dancing other than salsa......cool! :P

ballroom salsa......sucks! :cry:

[Sagitta]

Glad that you found the link useful. :D Ballroom salsa is definitely a completely different animal. Some people do enjoy it, and to each his own, BUT it does look funny when done at clubs, and personally I won't touch it with a broomstick!! At all the ballroom dances I simply do street salsa. :)

[robin]

I've never heard of this "ballroom salsa". In the UK Salsa is very much separate from Ballroom or Latin, usually taught in clubs, very rarely in ballroom/latin dances schools and virtually always by different teachers. Is it part of the ballroom scene in the US?

[cl5814]

I've never heard of this "ballroom salsa". In the UK Salsa is very much separate from Ballroom or Latin, usually taught in clubs, very rarely in ballroom/latin dances schools and virtually always by different teachers. Is it part of the ballroom scene in the US?

They play some salsa and mambo at the ballroom parties that i attend - for variety sake. I think in general the ballroom and salsa crowds are two different groups of people. This might vary depending on the area your at.

[etchuck]

after reading the first page of the link, it confirm my feeling about ballroom salsa!

ballroom dancing other than salsa......cool! :P

ballroom salsa......sucks! :cry:

Funny... I feel the same way about swing/jive...

(continues to flip through the ISTD syllabus in salsa that I bought... it's like 30 pages.)

[SDsalsaguy]

I've never heard of this "ballroom salsa". In the UK Salsa is very much separate from Ballroom or Latin, usually taught in clubs, very rarely in ballroom/latin dances schools and virtually always by different teachers. Is it part of the ballroom scene in the US?
Not really but, at the same time, yes. As you've noted in several other posts/threads, the financial situation of dance is quite different here in the U.S. So, what happens quite often, is that people call up a ballroom studio and say "do you teach salsa/lindy/AT?" and, not being willing to turn their money away, the studio says "Of course we do!" Now sometimes this can be true... there are, after all, lots of instructors out there who have the background in both ballroom and various street/club dances, i.e. Tony Meredith, Enio Cordoba, Teryl Jones, etc. And, even beyond this, its not only big names who may have such cross-over expertience. One of the best salseras I have ever had the privellage of leading taught out of the Arthur Murray studio in Boston.

That being said, far too many ballroom instructors have no clue what they're doing with street/club dances and just "teach" them for the $. I can think of one ballroom instructor teaching salsa who hadn't been to a salsa club in twon in two years! :shock: Or, at the Am that I stared at in San Diego they basically had me learning syllabus mambo, but in a different sequence and on1 that, in their minds, apparently made it "salsa." Now there were some instructors there with more club experience and flavor, and I learned some excellent leading and following skills... but salsa? As soon as I hit the clubs I had to start over from scratch! I even remember my instructor at the time (who was not a trainee!) being really impressed by a move some salsa guy of the street showed her... a move that I now consider "lesson 2" type material!

Not sure why I got off on this rant, so I'll call it quits at the moment...

[mambochino]

well, if you are in the Philly area, I can tell you one ballroom studio where instructors teach the street type salsa.

La Luna own and run by Sonya Sammova. She was a ballroom pro at one point. I have danced with her, competed with her in pro-am and she is an excellent dancer. Her studio now also offer On2 classes as well.

There is another lady in Orlando runs by Juliet McMain. She also teaches salsa.

In all, I think the techniques you learn will only help you. How you express it thru the music is entirely up to you.

Personaly opinion about the ballroom style stiffness for the street salsa is just a lil :doh:

Oh by the way, please allow me to introduce myself:

I am Brian aka mambochino. You can always find me make a fool of myself at the other board called salserosweb :mrgreen:

[Genesius Redux]

i m asking the ballroom people how do they dance theie version of salsa and when they see some street style salsa, how does that pair up, what is the point of view in the differences...etc. :wink:

I just don't really see a difference. To me, good dancing is good dancing, whether you are taking lessons in a ballroom studio or in a salsa club. In Nashville at least, ballroom people call "on 2" mambo. I imagine this way of talking about it might lead to complications in the ballroom world in NY. But if you put a bunch of really good club and ballroom dancers together, or for that matter a bunch of really bad club and ballroom dancers together, I'd think you would be hard pressed to tell which was which.

[mambochino]

i m asking the ballroom people how do they dance theie version of salsa and when they see some street style salsa, how does that pair up, what is the point of view in the differences...etc. :wink:

I just don't really see a difference. To me, good dancing is good dancing, whether you are taking lessons in a ballroom studio or in a salsa club. In Nashville at least, ballroom people call "on 2" mambo. I imagine this way of talking about it might lead to complications in the ballroom world in NY. But if you put a bunch of really good club and ballroom dancers together, or for that matter a bunch of really bad club and ballroom dancers together, I'd think you would be hard pressed to tell which was which.

you can tell, trust me! :wink: the reason i ask is that i have seen the differences. :D

[SDsalsaguy]

But if you put a bunch of really good club and ballroom dancers together, or for that matter a bunch of really bad club and ballroom dancers together, I'd think you would be hard pressed to tell which was which.
I disagree GR. I'm not saying that one would be better, in any absolute sense, than the other, but there is definately a difference in style and flavor! I can typically tell within 1/2 a bar, if not just in a beat or two if someone has ballroom background vs. pure street/club. If feels different and it does look different.

[etchuck]

I tend to agree in the aspect that many of the really good club salsa dancers here have a completely different frame (or not as solid as compared to ballroom frame). Consequently, I know there are certain positions with a club follower that I can do that I just can't seem to recreate with ballroom followers. Also, I know I do mostly ballroom-style On1 dancing because I don't seem to slot as much compared to the other salsa dancers I've watched around here.

[mambochino]

HERE IS A SITE THAT YOU CAN DOWNLOAD SOME VIDEO CLIPS OF VARIOUS PEOPLE DANCING AT VARIOUS EVENTS. Mostly mambo on2, but you shall find a on1 here and there.

http://www.mamboston2.com/

[ShyDancer]

Just thought Id throw my 2cents in..

I have thrown in the proverbial towel in regards to ballroom salsa, mambo and merengue. I had my final medal class last week and I wont be continuing these dances in the ballroom world.

I honestly think Ballroom Salsa is just some dance a bored instructor invented one day.

I was taught "salsa" as an on1 dance with movement on each beat of the bar.
I was taught Mambo on2.

Take my little ballroom butt off to a salsa club only to be utterly confused when what they were calling Salsa was Mambo to me.
It really put me off the street latin dances.

Thankfully I have experienced more Salsa and have come to the conclusion that what the ballroom world calls Mambo is actually Salsa in the club scene. And I have danced club Salsa using all my Mambo moves and no one has noticed the difference.

[MacMoto]

I'm getting curious now...
As Robin says, we just don't hear of ballroom salsa in the UK. We get Cuban, LA (on1), NY Mambo on2, but not "ballroom salsa". Ballroom is ballroom (including latin), and salsa is a dance you learn outside the ballroom teaching framework, usually at clubs.

Does anyone know of any video clips of typical ballroom salsa dancing? I wonder what it looks like.

[Sagitta]

Curiosity killed the cat!! :P

Actually I looked for a short while, but could not find anything. :(

[Sabor]

Ballroom Salsa :!: :?: .... whats that? :shock:

[Genesius Redux]

You know, it's funny, everyone talks about "ballroom salsa" as if it were some kind of obvious separate entity than what you see in clubs, but nobody I've read so far has been able to describe any differences. The most that I've ever heard anyone say is that so-called ballroom salsa seems stiff and artificial where club salsa seems smooth and fluid.

It has never seemed to occur to anyone that stiff and artificial is as ugly on the ballroom floor as it is in the clubs.

I'm thinking of that film with Kris Kristofferson and Vanessa Williams, where she was supposed to be this stiff uptight ballroom dancer, which they conveyed film-wise and choreographically, by having her constantly up on her toes with practically straight legs. To the uneducated audience this was meant to be a reflection of ballroom stiffness. But to every ballroom person I know who saw that movie, the comment on Williams was, "She's so stiff, she's not grounded."

There is no such thing as ballroom salsa. There's no syllabus for it. And since it doesn't exist, there seems little point trying to discover how it may "differ" from "club salsa" (as if there's just one style, when you could easily argue that there are as many styles as there are clubs).

But there are ballroom dancers who teach salsa in their studios in the same way they teach WCS, Argentine Tango, and on occasion Charleston, Lindy, etc. As with any instruction, there are some instructors who are very good and know their stuff and there are some who are not so good. And there are some students who are just terrific dancers and some who are lousy. Dancers are dancers and they have a wide variety of skills and experiences. Some ballroom people have extensive training in ballet and tap, some couldn't tap on bubble wrap.

There is the same variation in the clubs. I don't think anyone who has danced in a club setting will disagree that you can find some very bad club dancers--people who are unmusical, who can't find a beat, where the leads come late and tend to be heavy-handed and forced.

Yes, there are plenty of people of ballroom dance teachers who will take advantage of an interest in salsa and other forms of club dancing and teach students things they know little about. Just as there are plenty of club instructors who couldn't find the beat if they got kicked in the behind at the beginning of every measure.

I'm sorry to sound so cranky about this. But it just drives me nuts. Good dancing is good dancing. Pure and simple.

[SDsalsaguy]

There is no such thing as ballroom salsa. There's no syllabus for it.
Unfortunately this isn't true GR. Some studios/chains do, in fact, have a salsa syllabus.... ample evidence, on its own, to run for the hills!

[Genesius Redux]

Not as a competitive event in American Rhythm or International Latin, as far as I know. That's what I meant--doesn't exist as some standardized form recognized by a big authorizing body.

[Canadian Guy]

I am with GR, no one can describe what Ballroom Salsa is.

Does it travel along the line of dance?
Is it danced on the 2 (using the Mambo reference)?
Is it danced with different patterns than club Salsa?
Is it danced in the slot (i.e. LA style)?
Is it danced in a circular pattern (i.e. Cuban style)?

I think people talk about frame or the lack of it in club style but there is frame or at least in the LA style. How else can those ladies do the triple and quad spins without the frame. I guess in Cuban style you have to have spaghetti arms to get the ladies into the wraps and twists that the style often calls for.

Who really cares what's it call, just dance to the music and have fun.

[SDsalsaguy]

Oy. Do I think there's a "Ballroom" STYLE ala NYC, LA, Casino? Of course not! But there are Ballroom syllabi, and it is being taught both in the U.S. and abroad. Here in the U.S. some of the franchises, at least, are checking people out of bronze salsa, etc., and salsa is contested outside the actual multi-dance divisions, i.e. one can enter silver pro/am or am/am salsa, etc.

As far as outside the U.S., salsa is part of the Street latin division available in Australia, along with Latin, Ballroom, and New Vogue.

I'm not saying that I think this is the way things ought to be... but saying that there isn't a Ballroom style (vs., say, a STYLE) is, to my mind, ignoring too much reality.

[pygmalion]

Here's my admittedly cynical take. Ballroom salsa is an attempt by ballroom studios to keep their students in-house, rather than having them go out to clubs to learn salsa. And, in typically ballroom fashion, if you're teaching a dance, there must be a formalized syllabus and structure invented, if one doesn't already exist. Voila! Ballroom salsa. I also think that some studios do a better job than others of teaching their students how to dance salsa.

Not all ballroom dancers do ugly salsa. Some do. At a former studio, I had two teachers -- one of each. One, a former ballet dancer from Peoria who couldn't dance a respectable salsa to save his life, but who taught it. And a real street salsa guy -- a white guy with a Puerto Rican stepdad and half-siblings, who had salsa in his blood. Both "ballroom salsa" people. But there was a night and day difference in the way they danced. The Peoria guy taught steps off the step list. The street salsa guy taught you to dance from your heart.

[Canadian Guy]

Oy. Do I think there's a "Ballroom" STYLE ala NYC, LA, Casino? Of course not! But there are Ballroom syllabi, and it is being taught both in the U.S. and abroad. Here in the U.S. some of the franchises, at least, are checking people out of bronze salsa, etc., and salsa is contested outside the actual multi-dance divisions, i.e. one can enter silver pro/am or am/am salsa, etc.

I think I understand what you saying.

You have noticed that people are starting to put structure around Salsa. It just happens that the structure used (Bronze, Silver, Gold) mirrors the ballroom structure...

Studios and schools will always try and put structure around something - it is what students look for when they enroll in a school. Some method to breakdown the complex patterns into understandable pieces. Some schools call it level 1, 2, 3 other schools break it down as Beginner, Intermediate, advance and other schools call it level a,b,c. I guess you just started to noticed that some schools have copied the ballroom structure (Bronze, Silver, Gold). Does that mean it is not regular Salsa and now Ballroom Salsa?

I am not sure if that was what the original poster meant when they were talking about Ballroom Salsa...

[SDsalsaguy]

The problem is that not only are they putting ballroom structure on it but also ballroom styling... and hence the references to a ballroom style. Ballroom is about volume, shape, sharpness, presentation, punctuation, precision, etc. ...many of which run contrary to true club/street salsa. Take item #1, volume. Ballroom mentality is often relative to the idea of audience members and judges 50 feet away and, on a ballroom floor, this looks and works fine. The same dancing, however, is totally out of place in a crowded nightclub! Same for punctuation. In a ballroom comp you want to demonstrate very clean and clear timing which, again, needs to be visible from a distance. In a club many dancers want to smooth things out in a way that, from 50 feet away, might look "mushier." And what of presentation? Again, the ballroom competitor is aiming to project themselves and their dancing to audience and judges alike whereas the same behavior in typical club settings is a dead give-away of ego run rampant. Am I saying that one is objectively better? No, that is an aesthetic evaluation and each person will have their own judgement... but that doesn't mean that I don't think there are real and significant differences!

Hope that helps clarify...

[Warren J. Dew]

Ballroom is about volume, shape, sharpness, presentation, punctuation, precision, etc. ...many of which run contrary to true club/street salsa.
Some of us think that many of them run contrary to true ballroom dancing, too.

[pygmalion]

In what way, Warren? No challenge intended -- just a quest for knowledge. What do you think?

[Angelo]

I'm not sure i ever understood why people label some versions of a particular dance form as "true." Dance, like everything, changes over time, both over the long and the short term.

[jon]

The problem is that not only are they putting ballroom structure on it but also ballroom styling... and hence the references to a ballroom style. Ballroom is about volume, shape, sharpness, presentation, punctuation, precision, etc. ...many of which run contrary to true club/street salsa. Take item #1, volume. Ballroom mentality is often relative to the idea of audience members and judges 50 feet away and, on a ballroom floor, this looks and works fine. The same dancing, however, is totally out of place in a crowded nightclub!

ISTM you're talking about competition technique that's inappropriate on any social dance floor, ballroom, salsa, swing, or polka.

I learned mambo back around 1990 and then a few years later noticed that ballroom teachers were starting to call it "salsa" instead. Since I didn't see any notable difference in what they were teaching, I concluded this was a marketing technique to take advantage of the increased interest in club salsa. Haven't seen anyone teach "mambo" for some time, but maybe it persists in other areas of the US.

The local independent ballroom has very successful salsa nights in their back room, but they bring in actual street salsa teachers and don't play much of the crapola "Latin" music one hears in the front room where the regular ballroom dance is going on. Likewise with their hustle nights. They're even bringing in actual WCS teachers for their swing nights now, instead of relying on the inhouse ballroom teachers. I like this model.

[pygmalion]

I like that model too, jon. That's not what I've seen. I've seen ballroom teachers who insist on teaching everything themselves.

[Angelo]

I learned mambo back around 1990 and then a few years later noticed that ballroom teachers were starting to call it "salsa" instead. Since I didn't see any notable difference in what they were teaching, I concluded this was a marketing technique to take advantage of the increased interest in club salsa. Haven't seen anyone teach "mambo" for some time, but maybe it persists in other areas of the US.



From an interview with Tito Puente:


Where does "Salsa" come in? Is it a dance, new music - how do you see it?

PUENTE: Well, people think of it as new music, it's really not! Salsa is a merchandised word, a marketing word, so some people come up to me and say - "Tito, play me a Salsa" So I respond; "what do you want, an Alkasalsa?" It really doesn't define anything. You eat salsa, you don't dance to it.


Of course that is only one man's opinion but I thought it was clever

[jon]

PUENTE: Well, people think of it as new music, it's really not! Salsa is a merchandised word, a marketing word, so some people come up to me and say - "Tito, play me a Salsa" So I respond; "what do you want, an Alkasalsa?" It really doesn't define anything. You eat salsa, you don't dance to it.

Sure, but that debate has been resolved long since, and Puente lost it.

[pygmalion]

He was a charmer, though. 8)

[Angelo]

Sure, but that debate has been resolved long since, and Puente lost it.

How so?

[jon]

Sure, but that debate has been resolved long since, and Puente lost it.

How so?

In that the generic term he was complaining about has become so pervasive.

[DanceAm]

Not much here I agree with except that when you dance Salsa, you shouldn't be a slave to the timing, otherwise "good dancing is good dancing" as someone started before. Some accents to play with and even cheat the music is a lot of fun. Whatever is happening at the club, on the 1, on the 2, I just do whatever the club is doing, I can be flexible on that. Sort of like: when in Rome...

But I dance and lead from my center and by doing that, I can dance with a studio trained partner, a cuban born dancer or someone who never took a dance lesson in her life. Whoever it is, my partner will leave the floor wanting to dance with me again, I don't care what style they dance or how they learned.

I don't need to make my frame big and I don't have to have comp level posture, but there are certain characteristics of leading that work well in all situations. And the principle of showing off the woman is still what I am trying to do. I try to keep her balanced and informed, and not by words. My movement is still communication that tells her how to move. And I am more clear with my communication if I am not hunched over or lead the woman with all arms.

I couldn't catagorize my Salsa or Mambo when I am in the club as anything but fun. Not NY fun or LA fun or Miami fun or studio fun, just fun. If I am really doing my job out there, my partner won't even care which beat I am starting on or what style I seem to be doing.

This kind of talk is like connoisseurs of wine tasting. Sure there are different types of wine, subtle differences, reputation of the name or vineyard, but you either like a wine or you don't. Salsa is like one kind of wine and everyone likes his/her own style or brand depending on what you're used to. I don't need someone else to tell me if my partner and I are having fun or not and if we are not running into you on the floor, leave us alone and let us dance.

Makes me wonder if part of going to a salsa club is being picky about how others dance. Sounds more like High School cliques than a fun night out dancing.

[Genesius Redux]

I like that model too, jon. That's not what I've seen. I've seen ballroom teachers who insist on teaching everything themselves.

I think it depends largely on the character of the studio and the integrity of the teacher. Where I dance, people do what they feel comfortable with and what they have learned. The group classes are largely social, and there is a big push into the clubs; thus people are learning basic salsa in the studio, and then they're going out in a group and with their teachers to the club on weekends, incidentally bringing plenty of revenue to the club and helping to support the salsa scene. This, I think, is a salutary trend.

[rails]

Just curious. Where is this street where they do street salsa? I'd like to walk down it one day and see real "street" dancers. I don't think we have such streets in San Francisco. Maybe because it's so hilly.

[jon]

Just curious. Where is this street where they do street salsa?

Solano Ave. (http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~abrown/Photos/SolanoStroll-Sep2001/html/cd130327_023_22A.html) in Albany during the Solano Stroll (http://www.solanoavenueassn.org/strol.htm), for one. Judging from video of the Sacramento Jazz Festival, there were plenty of people dancing to Latin jazz. And pretty much any other street festival where there's the right kind of music, I've seen it in Durham and Chapel Hill and Raleigh, NC, for example, and Mt. View out here in CA when we have our art & wine festivals, and so on.

As for San Francisco, I don't know about street salsa, but it's probably there - there's been street swing when bands are playing down near pier 39, and of course theweekly Lindy in the Park (http://www.lindyinthepark.com/), though that's a few feet off the street.

Sheesh, don't lead with your chin like that :-)

[pygmalion]

There are several literal street salsa/Latin music festivals here every year. There was one a couple weeks ago. And Sea World does a Latin music festival twice a year, which ends up being a street/amusement park salsa festival, because they have some pretty good bands and big name acts.

Even though I was using it figuratively, street dance is real. It's not just an expression.

[Sagitta]

Okay. Come down to NYC and you see people dancing in the PR and DR neighborhoods while hanging out. For instance, 163rd Street, off broadway, where my sister is now living and moving from.... :)

[ShyDancer]

But I dance and lead from my center and by doing that, I can dance with a studio trained partner, a cuban born dancer or someone who never took a dance lesson in her life. Whoever it is, my partner will leave the floor wanting to dance with me again, I don't care what style they dance or how they learned.


Save me a dance?? :D

[Angelo]

Sure, but that debate has been resolved long since, and Puente lost it.

How so?

In that the generic term he was complaining about has become so pervasive.



I agree that the terms has become pervasive, doesn't mean that Puente was wrong in the sense that "Salsa" was a somewhat new term that was being applied to familiar music (at least to him as a musician). You sort of said the same thing yourself.

[SDsalsaguy]

Any credible salsa historian will agree know that the term "salsa" was originally a record company marketing device.

[jon]

I agree that the terms has become pervasive, doesn't mean that Puente was wrong in the sense that "Salsa" was a somewhat new term that was being applied to familiar music (at least to him as a musician). You sort of said the same thing yourself.

I didn't say he was wrong, I said he lost the argument he was making, that the term was inappropriate.

[Genesius Redux]

I agree that the terms has become pervasive, doesn't mean that Puente was wrong in the sense that "Salsa" was a somewhat new term that was being applied to familiar music (at least to him as a musician). You sort of said the same thing yourself.

I didn't say he was wrong, I said he lost the argument he was making, that the term was inappropriate.

In that case, it wouldn't mean that he'd lost the argument. In fact, wouldn't the use of the term as a marketing strategy merely confirm what he'd said? :?

If he'd said something like, "Ack! salsa as a marketing device, it'll never catch on!" then that would be something else, no?

[Warren J. Dew]

In what way, Warren? No challenge intended -- just a quest for knowledge. What do you think?

Well, as Jonathan points out, some of these things are presentation issues that focus on making the dancing look good to judges rather than on making it feel good to one's partner or oneself. One has to keep in mind, though, that the vast majority of ballroom dancing is not competitive, but social. Trying to show off to the judges doesn't make any more sense at a social ballroom dance than at a Salsa club.

Some of us feel that it shouldn't make sense in competition, either. Ideally, the judges should be good enough to see through that kind of behavior, be able to tell how the dancing actually feels, and judge based on that. The best judges actually do it pretty well.

In fact, some might go so far as to feel that some of the same behavior that Jonathan describes is just as much "a dead give-away of ego run rampant" on the competition floor as at a club. It's not that hard to tell which guys (it's always guys!) are full of themselves even at the top levels of competition.

On the other hand, while I agree with Genesius that "good dancing is good dancing," I do think that dancing can fall short of perfection in a variety of distinct ways. If you take classes and lessons, as most ballroom dancers do, you're likely first to learn the stuff that can easily be taught in a class. You may step exactly on beats 1, 3 and 4 in a SQQ foxtrot figure, for example. Your weaknesses will be in things that are more difficult to describe, such as how to shade that foxtrot rhythm to smooth out the movement and better match the flow of the music.

If you learn by immersion by dancing to the music in a club, you'll learn a different set of things first - for example, adjusting to your partner and the music - and you'll have a different set of initial weaknesses. And since no one ever actually achieves perfection, it's often possible to differentiate between those that learned mostly in clubs and those that learned mostly in studio classes.

[salsachinita]

it's often possible to differentiate between those that learned mostly in clubs and those that learned mostly in studio classes.

Well said :D , Warren! This statement is true in both ballroom & salsa.

As a social salsa dancer (who learned mainly from the club floor), I would like to share a view from a different angle. Basically, in my local scene, the divisions/differentiations had always been: Salsa-dancer-studio-trained, and Salsa-dancer-street-learnt.

The former group generally consist of people from non-Latino backgrounds who happen to become aficionados. They are happy to purchase a servise provided by the studio & often strive to advance.

The latter, while mainly from Latino backgrounds, this may not always be the case. People from this group have been exposed to salsa music for most (if not all) part of their lives. Dancing & playing instruments are quite often part of the culture. They may not know tricks, or even know the difference between on1 & on2....they simply danced. And natually, you will come across the ones who stand out to be great show-stoppers, while others tend to be understated.

At the very beginning of our local salsa scene, a little more than 15 years ago, the ballroom studios did not even know/care that salsa exsisted, as it was simply consider NOT part of the syllabus & left alone. The popularity of salsa & related rhythms (termed "Street Latin" as opposed to Ballroom Latin) started to change that (as ballroom studios started getting requests to learn these dances), but this change took place over time.

Meanwhile, there were separate studios for Ballroom (only) & Street Latin (only). One didn't mix with the other.

So now, since most ballroom studios are offering the "Street" classes, we have three categories: Salsa-dancer-ballroom-trained, salsa-dancer-salsa-studio-trained, and salsa-dancer-street-learnt.

*Getting a headache yet :wink: ?*

There are good & bad dancers from each of these groups. The level of musicality & connection all vary depending on the individual, no matter where/how they learnt to dance, or what cultural background.

The differences are generally in styling. Much like the way we all cook differently, as we all have different taste & season our sauces differently.

Is one better the the others....? Isn't it a personal preference issue....? (eventhough the "when in Rome....." approach is probably best)

[salsachinita]

Just curious. Where is this street where they do street salsa?

The closest I have experienced was the improtu "unplugged" sessions, often during wee hours in the morning, when a clubs shuts & sholves the musicians & dancers out.

Still in the mood, the musicians set up their percussion instruments in the street, hand out some maracas, guiros & cowbells, whoever wants to jam can all take part, using whatever talent you have (vocal, precussion, rap, dance).

Some of the most magical music & dancing come from these 'Street Rumba (not rhumba!)' sessions. No word can describe it. This is as real as it gets 8) .

[Chris Stratton]

Some of the most magical music & dancing come from these 'Street Rumba (not rhumba!)' sessions. No word can describe it. This is as real as it gets 8) .

Sounds interesting... I just have this image of knee cartlidge torn by trying to spin on pavement that I can't banish from my mind.

[jon]

Sounds interesting... I just have this image of knee cartlidge torn by trying to spin on pavement that I can't banish from my mind.

Hard leather soles on asphalt is usually a low-friction combination.

[Warren J. Dew]

At the very beginning of our local salsa scene, a little more than 15 years ago, the ballroom studios did not even know/care that salsa exsisted, as it was simply consider NOT part of the syllabus & left alone.
I'd agree that they didn't care, but in some areas, at least, the American style syllabus did in fact already include a dance danced to the music now called "salsa". As Jon pointed out earlier, that dance is mambo. Of course, when people came in asking for "salsa", the studios may not have connected it to mambo.

[salsachinita]

Some of the most magical music & dancing come from these 'Street Rumba (not rhumba!)' sessions. No word can describe it. This is as real as it gets 8) .

Sounds interesting... I just have this image of knee cartlidge torn by trying to spin on pavement that I can't banish from my mind.

Street Rumba includes very little spin, and they tend to be stepped spins rather than free spins. Your knees are quite safe 8) .

[rails]

Okay. Come down to NYC and you see people dancing in the PR and DR neighborhoods while hanging out. For instance, 163rd Street, off broadway, where my sister is now living and moving from.... :)

Now that's the kind of thing I'd like to see some day.

[jon]

Here's some more street swing in San Francisco coming up this weekend, this time on Fillmore Street (http://www.swingtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3201).