So to determine was a girl likes...

[mexi_gabacho]

Well, I've chatted with salsachinita about this a few times, and she keeps telling me post more of my thoughts.... soooooo....

We were discussing ways of determining which types of moves a girl (follower) is capable of doing and what 'type' of dancer she is.

:?:

One of the things that I mentioned that I like to do is stick to basic moves/turns and then break into shines and watch her shines.

The theory is this:

You can tell a few things about how a woman does shines. You can tell if she is comfortable or likes spins (she integrates spins into her shines). You can tell if she uses alot of body movement or shall we say 'feminine' body movement. Things such as that. And you can usually determine by her shines what 'level' dancer she is.

I have used this in clubs to kinda 'size up' a girl and it seems to work well for me... of course, the main exception is with girl who don't like shines!
:?

What techniques do you guys use to try and determine what you SHOULD try with a girl and what you SHOULDN'T? Ladies, is there anything you guys do to try and 'hint' to the guy what types of things you like? This is just me being curious while I try to improve myself.

:)

[mexi_gabacho]

It SHOULD be:

HOW to determine what a girl likes...

Wow. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I typed the topic.

[Pacion]

What techniques do you guys use to try and determine what you SHOULD try with a girl and what you SHOULDN'T? Ladies, is there anything you guys do to try and 'hint' to the guy what types of things you like? This is just me being curious while I try to improve myself.

:)

I try and do free styling footwork either before or after a crossbody (or whenever I can do it :lol: ) rather than the basic. It wasn't something I started doing intentionally, but it seems to work. It worked so well, I even had a Cuban guy I was dancing with telling me "No, no, no. We don't do that in Cuba" :lol: I was chomping at the bit to be let free :lol:

[Sagitta]

Well, I've chatted with salsachinita about this a few times, and she keeps telling me post more of my thoughts.... soooooo....

And this isn't the first time you said that!! :roll: Stop hogging those thoughts and share like we other dfers do here. :P

It is true about some people not liking shines. And some who do cannot do moves that they enjoy while connected. For instance some ladies don't do spins when doing shines, but love it when you do it to them. So the shines observation routine does not work always.

What I do is observe the reaction of my partner. I move from simpler moves to more complicated ones, a one spin move to a 2 spin one. The only exception to this is when I've seen the person dancing before. Then I sort of have a better idea of where to start.

[Lita_rulez]

What techniques do you guys use to try and determine what you SHOULD try with a girl and what you SHOULDN'T? Ladies, is there anything you guys do to try and 'hint' to the guy what types of things you like? This is just me being curious while I try to improve myself.

:)

I have started learning salsa with cuban style, rueda to be specific. No shines to be found there. So shines are definitly not a good way for me to try and determine what the girl's level is.

If she is pure cuban, the whole shine concept is lost on her, and she's just gona stare at me like "why don't you wana dance with me anymore ? the song is not finished... Is it me ? did I do something wrong ? am I a bad dancer ? Am I ugly ? I'm ugly, I lnew it... It's my thighs... they are fat... I know I should go on a diet, but..." (well, she is a girl right ? What did you expect :wink: )

If she is a mambo dancer, be it on 1 or on 2, there is still a chance for her to be a "I don't like to shine" dancer. No point cutting her loose ther either.

And (last but not least) if she is a mambo dancer that loves to shine, and a good one at that, then SHE is going to be judging me by the way I do shine, and let's face it, once I have placed the 3 and a half shines I know, well, I s*ck :roll:



More seriously, I believe the best way use to determine what I SHOULD try with a girl and what I SHOULDN'T is... to actually try them !

First off, I usually have seen the girl dance. So I know what to expect (if she has never performed a double spin while in my line of vision, I'm not gona try and spin her four times on 3 beats...)

Starting from there, well, you just feel where she follows and where she seems to be reluctant.

Then I just build up.

If this move seems easy, let's see what the same one with a double spin will look like. OK, now what if I change the side she's gona turn to at the end of the figure ? How about if I spin at the same time, what hand am I going to find when I turn back towards her ?

and so on.

There is no rule of thumb to what you should and should not do when you dance for the first time with a new partner exept for this one :

As long as she seems happy with what you are leading, keep'em coming. As soon as she starts looking lost (or hurt) or just does not seem to enjoy herself, cut the fancy stuff, you're dancing WITH her, not for the people looking.

[DiAnAoN1]

Mexi_gabacho I dont necessarily think you should size up a person's level of dance based on their shines for instance I luv to spin and I would consider myself a pretty advance salsera but I dont incorporate any flashy stuff into my shines...I basically just go with the music and let my body taker over :D. If i were a guy I would probably try a simple beginner move then if she follows well try an intermediate and then go on to advanced, when i dance with a guy I can size up his level of dancing during the first basic step if he's on time he has to be at least an intermediate.

[Sagitta]

when i dance with a guy I can size up his level of dancing during the first basic step if he's on time he has to be at least an intermediate. Really!! :o I consider myself a beginner. :P :)

[borikensalsero]

I watch them dance, see what style they have, if they are spinners, wild ponies, etc... That roughly tells me their experience.

When I dance with a girl for the first time, I keep it simple for a couple of bars, smiling, looking into her eyes, kind of like working on having her render her total self to me. After that, I'm gone, I do what comes out, which is dictated by the music, yet limited by her skills, and mine of course.

If I break and I don't see shines coming from her, I'm back to couple work, making sure she is still breathing from the shock of being let go to shine. I'll even smile and play around if she has no shine repertoire, hoping to let her know it is ok... From there I build... from single spins and on. Once you feel her first spin, even her basic, you can tell guess what level she might be at. You can even tell by the way she holds you to begin the song, how good she is. There is just something electrifying about and advance salsera when you hold her. Something that both intermidate and beginers have yet to create... I actually don't even remember having ever started a dance in close partner position. Hmmmm...

There are also dancers who know a bunch of shines but can't follow to save their lives! Dancers who can spin like a tornado, but have no shines and no partner work skills.

Nice question, i don't even know what to say, I'm at a loss.

[DiAnAoN1]

when i dance with a guy I can size up his level of dancing during the first basic step if he's on time he has to be at least an intermediate. Really!! :o I consider myself a beginner. :P :)

When dancing I would rather do the basic step repeatedly ON TIME and I would enjoy it more than to be lead through a whole bunch of "exciting" moves that dont go with the music and are not executed on time.

[Danish Guy]

Start nice and easy. Get a connection, and see how she responds to the lead. Change from x-body mambo style to Cuban, if she can’t dance the style I started in. Then continue to the level she can follow, or what I’m capable of. Still throwing in some simpler moves and whatever pops up as the right thing.

Sometimes you can feel how she is begging for the double turn, when you lead the first single. Like she is restraining herself from taking that extra turn.

Locally there are very few guys busting into shines during the dance. Personally I’m into salsa for the partner thing, and connection. Shines reminds me too much of the disco’s where everybody dance with them self. Some ladies like to show off some of their shines and lady styling is you stand still and let them with a one or two hand connection, and that’s cool. But many times you get the “never do that again” look, even from the skilled ladies.

I would rather dance the time away, and adjusting to the girl I’m dancing with, than skimming the floor to put tags on for style and levels, before asking.

[Kali Ma]

"Danish Guy"Start nice and easy. Get a connection, and see how she responds to the lead. Change from x-body mambo style to Cuban, if she can’t dance the style I started in.

Oh, thank you so much for saying this! Seems so obvious, yet...I distinctly remember when I started dancing salsa; I danced Cuban exclusively, and had NO CLUE as to what any other style might incorporate. I danced with a few guys who basically were forced to drag me around 'cause I couldn't get a grip on what it was that my feet, arms, etc. should have been doing in any given moment. I laugh about it now, but if those guys had been willing (able?) to switch styles to accomodate my lack of skill in their chosen style, I'm sure we would have all been much happier!

[salsalawyer]

i kinda start of basic and then progress from there. In other words, try a new move after doing a cross body, then cross body with a turn, then cross body with an underarm turn, etc

[salsachinita]

Apart from moves & timing, which relate to the preferred style one learnt, I'd like to add another one: adjust tension according to the followers.

Let's define 'tension' here, as this is one of those terms that can & does get misinterpreted. In relation to connection in partner dancing, the word is defined by SD as: Personally, I think of this as dynamic tension or, better yet, dynamic resistance. I find the resistance model preferable because it avoids some of the misunderstandings typically encountered when using the tensions terminology.

Leaders, when you dance with a follower for the first time, pay attention to the level of resistence she gives you. This way you can adjust to lead her either more lightly or more heavily, resulting in better 'communication', which leads to a more enjoyable dance.

The reverse also applies. Follwers also benefit from adjusting her tension/resistance to her leaders.

This point was brought to my attention by Capricorn Dancer, which has refined my following skill. Thanks, CD.

More reading regarding this can be found on this old thread: http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?p=27025&highlight=tension#27025

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

I always start on a closed position, do 1 or 2 basics followed by a CBL. This is enough to tell me what level she´s at. Rarely get surprised after that.

[Sabor]

usually, i see her dance with someone else first.. that pretty much does it

[MacMoto]

usually, i see her dance with someone else first.. that pretty much does it
The problem of course is that, if everybody waits for someone else to dance with a girl to see what she's like, she will not get a dance at all (unless she's brave enough to ask guys rather than sit and wait patiently -- which itself is ususally a sign that she's not a complete beginner, I suppose).

[Sabor]

right MacMoto.. i dont mean i do that intentionally.. its just how it happens with me.. usually cause i go to the salsa night a little late cause of my work and stuff so by the time i get there the dancing is on full scale.. so i watch a little .. select .. dance etc..

[Danish Guy]

usually, i see her dance with someone else first.. that pretty much does it
The problem of course is that, if everybody waits for someone else to dance with a girl to see what she's like, she will not get a dance at all (unless she's brave enough to ask guys rather than sit and wait patiently -- which itself is ususally a sign that she's not a complete beginner, I suppose).

I have more than once asked a new face that was just waiting to get on the floor. Often beginners, but some actually appears to be advanced dancers. After I “showed” their dance skills on the floor, the guys notice, and they wasn’t sitting out any more dances. :D

[salsachinita]

Yep, I've done exactly that for visiting salseros (who nobody knows from a bar of soap) :P .........!

After they've 'shown' themselve, my local salseras usually fight over them 8) .

Ok, guys.......does that tempt you enough to pay us a little visit down here :wink: ?!

[Sagitta]

usually, i see her dance with someone else first.. that pretty much does it
The problem of course is that, if everybody waits for someone else to dance with a girl to see what she's like, she will not get a dance at all (unless she's brave enough to ask guys rather than sit and wait patiently -- which itself is ususally a sign that she's not a complete beginner, I suppose).

I have more than once asked a new face that was just waiting to get on the floor. Often beginners, but some actually appears to be advanced dancers. After I “showed” their dance skills on the floor, the guys notice, and they wasn’t sitting out any more dances. :D

Last Tuesday night, at the after-party, I was amused to hear someone say to another person I didn't know you were good / knew how to dance. I missed dancing with you tonight!! I actually danced with that salsera two cha chas (difficult to get people to do cha cha!!), a couple salsas and one merengue! That's what those people who only dance with those whom they consider good enough for themselves miss out on. :)