And why do we need spectators?

[pygmalion]

I was just out browsing the web, and found that World Promotions, which sponsors several dance comps each year, has now added the option for people to purchase spectator tickets. That's new, actually. Spectator tickets never used to be offered to the public.

Obviously, the big name comps will always have lots of spectators. But, from my observation, many of the smaller comps have few spectators in attendance. There's an occasional stage Mom, and every once in a while, people bring along a cheering section of friends. Most of the folks I've seen have been studio group that travelled together.

Questions. Is that what you've seen at comps you've attended? Is there a healthy number of spectators? Do your comps advertise to the public and have spectator tickets for sale? And what purpose is served, if any, by having spectators in attendance?

[Vince A]

Most of the venues that we attend do have spectator prices!

However, most attendees are those that have paid in advance and are there for the entire weekend to have fun, compete, party, do workshops, take privates . . . and watch if not competing.

Those that pay as "spectators only" will pay a reduced price and may only attend one day usually at 10 - 20 per day - if they come the next day, they pay again. Many times, Carolyn's parents come to watch her dance if the event is close enough for them. They stay for most of the day and sometimes for the dance afterwards that evening . . . they don't dance, but that didn't keep me from enticing her mid-seventy year-young Mom on the dance floor - she loves to dance!

Sometimes we take our kids . . . and they are just spectators!

Every event that we attend does have "spectators only!"

[Laura]

Obviously, the big name comps will always have lots of spectators. But, from my observation, many of the smaller comps have few spectators in attendance. There's an occasional stage Mom, and every once in a while, people bring along a cheering section of friends. Most of the folks I've seen have been studio group that travelled together.

Ahh, World Promotions. I've always wondered about them as they operate outside the realm of the NDCA and USABDA. You may be the first or second person I've ever met who has been to one of their events. I hear they're great, but expensive.

I've been to NDCA, USABDA, Fred Astaire, and collegiate events. The big name comps (Ohio Star Ball, Emerald ball, USDSC) sometimes have lots of spectators, but it really depends on what session of the comp we are talking about. The ballroom was 100% full in Miami for the night of the World Latin Championships, but the night they ran the US Professional Smooth Championships and World Mambo Championships it was only about 1/2 full. The daytime sessions (Pro/Am, with some preliminary Rising Star Pro rounds toward the end) were empty except for the competitors and a few friends.

Pro/Am sessions aren't always empty -- for many years at the International Grand Ball and the San Francisco Open the Saturday afternoon (Pro/Am Standard & Smooth) sessions used to be very full of dancers and spectators. You'd actually get crowds cheering for you and applauding at the end.

The Fred Astaire events I went to were always just the dancers and a few friends from time to time. However, they'd get a lot of studios together at the comps and just about everyone would be in the ballroom all the time, so there was a nice crowd.

The Chapter of USABDA that I belong to hosts some very small comps, but sometimes we completely pack the place with spectators. It sort of depends on the time of year and also on how many youth and younger dancers happen to show up. The more kids, the more spectators, since they bring their parents, relatives, siblings, and even friends.

So, I'd say that it varies, based on comp date, location, expense, and the state of the economy. Some comps have a healthy number of spectators, others don't. And this can vary from session to session and year to year at the same comp.

All the comps I attend advertise to the public and have tickets for sale, but I must say that different comps PR varies greatly. Some just put flyers in local studios, others try really hard to get coverage in the local papers. I've done PR work for a couple of comps, in fact. One thing I've noticed is a pattern where a comp organizer will put out a lot of money on advertising -- including radio and newspaper ads -- and won't get hardly any return on it so in the future they will pursue smaller and cheaper means of advertising. I really think that in the US DanceSport has not caught on as a spectator sport: it's still mostly friends, family, and dancers who aren't dancing that night who make up the spectators. A few social dancers from the local studios come to watch, and every so often a random person who saw an ad comes.

I think having spectators is important because it really lends energy to the proceedings. It gives the dancers someone to really perform for. Collegiate comps seem to have the best spectators -- but the spectators are mostly college team members. Still, they've got a lot of spirit and energy and there's tons of cheering and shouting and clapping. When it comes to picking a comp to dance in, I always love going to college comps for this reason. It's fun as a spectator (you can get caught up in the energy of the crowd and have fun cheering) and it's even more fun as a dancer.

[pygmalion]

I have a house full of little boys this weekend, so I don't have a lot of time to post. I'll come back and give my thoughts on spectators later.

Since you ask, I think World Promotions is a class act. Nice people, good, straight-forward business practices. No apology for or deception about the fact that they're doing dance as a business . They consider teachers and student dancers to be their customers and treat them as such. Their events are very well run.

Yes, they are expensive. They have pretty generous purses for teachers. I'll google and post their link later, so you can see. However, they also give away quite a lot free to juniors, in an effort to develop young dancers. Free comp entries and free dance camps for juniors. Overall, pretty well done. And not so expensive as to be inaccessible.

[Laura]

No need to Google, I've seen their web site. The last time I looked at it I was suprised to learn that they had competitions in San Jose California and in Las Vegas! They seem to be their own world of dance, at least with respect to NDCA/USABDA/YCN, because like I said I've met only about two people who had ever been to one of their events. I know they know the rest of the dance world exists, because top NDCA and USABDA dancers have been invited to judge/perform at their events, so I can only surmise that World Promotions chooses to not advertise or otherwise promote to the NDCA/USABDA community.

Someone told me that they only sell through studios, so if you're an independent dancer who wants to go compete you can't unless you're part of a studio that is going. That's kind of a shame because they have several events that aren't too far for me to travel to, but since I can't figure out how to enter then I can't join in the fun. Looking at the web site didn't help much in that respect. Oh well! I'm sure they're doing great business and so don't need random (as in, unaffiliated with a client studio) Pro/Ams showing up to dance anyway.

[Laura]

http://www.worldpromotionsinc.com

Ahh, here we go...I just found this on their web site:

World Promotions is a "non-political" company and participants are not required to be a member of any organization or body to attend any of our events.

Then they say:

World Promotions is a “wholesaler” and Package A and B are ONLY available to Studio owners and registered Professional Teachers.

So to attend their events I need to at least dance at a studio that resells their competition packages, or have a teacher who is registered with them. Okay, now I know why I can't figure out how to enter from their web site. :-) I'm curious to know what their Bay Area comp looks like, because there's a large amateur dance scene here that is completely unaware of World Promotions' existence. A lot of us just like to dance, and some might like to join in something that is non-political, but like I said no one knows about it and it's not possible to enter unless you're "hooked up" with the right studio or teacher.

[Chris Stratton]

It may actually be that the world promotions people have a deal with the NDCA such that their competitions are tolerated only so long as they are restricted to people who are in effect part of the organization by virtue of entering with participating studios. I don't know that this is true, but it's a type of situation allowed for in the published NDCA rules where member organizations are allowed to hold closed competitions.

[Laura]

That makes sense, sort of like other closed comps out there. I've heard they're really nice events, they certainly do get great people to demonstrate!

[pygmalion]

Yes. Slavik and Karina again this November in Orlando. I'll be there. :D

[Warren J. Dew]

The World Promotions events sound a lot like the Murray and Astaire competitions - right down to the fact they can have one right next door without one's being aware of it. My guess is that they are fulfilling the same niche for independent studios who join up with their network.

On the original question, the only competitions I've seen where the spectators outnumber the competitors are large ones. This makes sense since people who are just there to watch are likely to pick the competitions with the best dancing to see. Even then, most of the spectators are usually dancers themselves, just not current competitors.

If you expand the definition of 'spectator' to include competitors who don't happen to be competing in the current session, then collegiate competitions probably qualify - but probably only because competitors, and usually other spectators as well, can get in free to watch.

I think that there would be more spectators at daytime pro-am competition sessions if spectating were free; more of the competitors from other sessions would drop by to watch. The competitions would probably have to raise entry fees to do that, though.