Dancing and Atkins or LHCF diet - ketos fuel for brain made me dizzy

[Lucretia]

Hi!

To lose some kilos I started up a diet called LHCF (almost like Atkins). Low on carb but lots of fat and protein. You may not eat anything with more than 5 g carbs per 100%. I get about 20-30 g carbs per day. I feel great after 6 days.

First day with dancing was Wednesday (4:th day). At class I got lactoacid which actually means I still have carbs in my body. At social la few hours later I got over the lacto acid barrier which probably meant I finally started to burn fat for real. After that point I could have danced for ever.

I felt great except for the fact that a slight dizziness. I wasn´t completely alert. I missed subtle signals and in quick songs I did lots of mistakes.

Do anyone have experience of similar diets and dancing?
I do not want this to go on when I go to the Gothenburg Salsa Congress in March. I have to plan my time. Or is this just a thing that I get used to - or my body get used to?

/luc


ps.
The state the body is with this low level of carbs is called ketose. Ketose is a kind of carb/sugarmolecule created by the body by breaking down fat. So at that moment my brain probably used ketos as fuel instead of carbs.

[kpm]

I don't have much experience with ketogenic diets, but from what I've read it can take a couple of weeks to adapt to it.

[opendoor]

...except for the fact that a slight dizziness. I wasn´t completely alert. I missed subtle signals and in quick songs I did lots of mistakes.

Sorry Luc, you did not get over that barrier! Yonder you feel free and you are absolutely clear in mind. Your body won that said fight, dizziness is one of the weakest threads it lauches. Be aware of some more hurting ones. Your body will not leave the field to your intentions that easily. And, as a physiologist: you cannot cause a weight change by cutting down the input side of energy!

The state the body is with this low level of carbs is called ketose. Ketose is a kind of carb/sugarmolecule created by the body by breaking down fat. So at that moment my brain probably used ketos as fuel instead of carbs.

This state is called ketogenesis and is characterized by the formation fo ketones (without an S, but with n N). They replace small sugars as ketoses and aldoses, but cause a bad breath. And, honestly luc, as a (manic) dancer: I would like to enjoy the dancing with ya, and not beeing the accomplice of your personal fights. By the way, will you be in Hamburg in July?

od

[danceronice]

You body does need carbs for fast-burning energy. That's why you're dizzy and why you're missing the little things. Your body may tolerate trying to do intense activity without any carbs, but it will not like it and it's not a good long-term plan.

Whenever I am either overloaded on carbs or overloaded on protein (it varies which I crave more) I end up not quite right. Better to have a healthy balance of whole grains and other carbs and lean protein than to try the almost-all-protein quackery.

[Lucretia]

And, as a physiologist: you cannot cause a weight change by cutting down the input side of energy!

This state is called ketogenesis and is characterized by the formation fo ketones (without an S, but with n N). They replace small sugars as ketoses and aldoses, but cause a bad breath. And, honestly luc, as a (manic) dancer: I would like to enjoy the dancing with ya, and not beeing the accomplice of your personal fights. By the way, will you be in Hamburg in July?

od
Thanks! English is not my native.
First of all - I do not cut down the level of energy intake. I just cut down the carbs. I eat plenty of protein, fat and lowcarb vegetables.

The LCHF diet is approved by Swedish Health administration. So there is no other problems than concentration and bad breath. And perhaps vitamin - C. The bad breath they say is (for most people) only a transition state before body gets used to burning fat.

I have also read about this diet and extreme sports. People who run, swim or bike very long do take some sugar if needed. It will not ruin your day or diet. So congressnights I might do so.

The bad breath is something my friends have to keep track of. That night I asked a friend several times :)

Sadly no Hamburg is planned. But Gothenburg Salsa Congress late March and Croatian at Rovinj in late june. The last one was magic last year. And every year as people tell me :)

[Lucretia]

You body does need carbs for fast-burning energy. That's why you're dizzy and why you're missing the little things. Your body may tolerate trying to do intense activity without any carbs, but it will not like it and it's not a good long-term plan.

Whenever I am either overloaded on carbs or overloaded on protein (it varies which I crave more) I end up not quite right. Better to have a healthy balance of whole grains and other carbs and lean protein than to try the almost-all-protein quackery.

Yes that was my first reaction too. But after reading a lot I found out for most people/sports this is not a problem. When body starts to burn fat efficiently you cannot get lacto acid. The problem you describe is connected with forcing the body to switch over from one fuel to the other. When that work is done - it works perfect. And if needed - you can add some sugar under extreme circumstances.

Think about the Eskimos - the managed almost without carbs (until recently). They hunted from canoes eating flesh from whales and seals.

[toothlesstiger]

I dropped 15% of my bodyweight (all the excess) using a low-carb diet. I was not dancing at the time, but was doing some heavy weight training, and didn't experience any dizziness or loss of concentration. I also didn't experience any issues with bad breath or body odor. I was using the Protein Power diet.

Under that diet, after achieving your target weight, you are supposed to slowly reintroduce carbs until you find the either the maximum amount which does not induce weight gain, or the amount you are comfortable eating, whichever is least.

I felt healthy and energetic. At the time, though, the food industry was not selling to low-carb dieters the way it is now, so it was not a very convenient life-style. A change of jobs tanked the diet.

[danceronice]

Yes that was my first reaction too. But after reading a lot I found out for most people/sports this is not a problem. When body starts to burn fat efficiently you cannot get lacto acid. The problem you describe is connected with forcing the body to switch over from one fuel to the other. When that work is done - it works perfect. And if needed - you can add some sugar under extreme circumstances.

Think about the Eskimos - the managed almost without carbs (until recently). They hunted from canoes eating flesh from whales and seals.

They also have, on average, very short, stocky builds and carry an amount of body fat considered "unhealthy" (it's not, but by modern medical standards it would be.) And are living in a colder-than-normal environment. And have evolved to live in it after a few thousand years. Believe me, you're not doing anything like the activities or environment of a pre-contact Eskimo/Innu/Siberian. (And having eaten one of their staples, pickled whale blubber, it's really not a fun diet unless you're burning WAY more calories than you are likely to be burning.)

Ultimately, the human body is that of an omnivore best suited to small meals of whatever it can find that won't poison it or eat it first. You can cut REFINED carbs way out, as that's only been around for a few thousand years (since the advent of agriculture) and our digestive tracts haven't really adapted to it. But we are designed to 'graze' on (non-cellulitic, higher-sugar) plants, fruits, nuts, meats--again, basically everything we come across that won't kill us. Trying to cut out entire groups is not a good idea, whether it makes you lose weight or not. That goes for vegetarians, too--the human digestive system is clearly not one meant to subsist entirely on plant matter. None of nearest relatives do, either. (No, not even gorillas.) None exist without carbs. Lots of small meals, lean protein, and something that breaks down easily into sugar is the easiest way to keep energy up and functional.

Evolutionary biology and what it made H. sapiens sapiens into is what it is. There is no healthy diet that is completely free of carbohydrates, and the only groups with VERY high fat intake successfully are living in extreme environmental conditions that means they're burning more energy to function.

There is no healthy speed-dieting, either. The faster you lose weight, the less your body likes it. You are dealing with a machine created 25,000 years ago that hasn't gotten the message about modern food supplies. It doesn't like to lose storage. Quick weight loss now = weight gain later, and a body much more resistant to losing it again.

[sambanada]

Is this healthy?

[Lucretia]

@danceronice
I agree almost in everything you say.

First of all - this is not the way I am intended to eat for the rest of my life.

Secondly we are designed not only to graze but to collect different kids of food AND eat meat and all fat we could find on that poor beasts we could kill and cook.

We were definitely NOT designed to eat as much carbs as we eat today. Agriculture started a few thousands years ago. Until then we couldn´t base our food on seed. So what we are doing right now is even more unnatural than the diet I eat now. It is the palaeolithic food (stone age) that has inspired this diet. http://www.paleonu.com/

Todays intake (since I am home and ill I took notes).

Breakfast: omelett made on eggs, squasch, cheese, olive oil
Lunch: makerel in tomato juice, woked flower cabbage and garlic, olive oil
Snack: 30 gr brie and cucumber
Dinner: Grilled chicken, woked brussels sprouts, gravy made by cream and curry

So I have "grazed" AND eaten meat AND fat. And in old stone age we did probably not get seed everyday. Just like me.

Todays score is 1800 calories which is normal for my bodytype. The BIG difference is where the energy comes from:

6 % of energy from carbs
18 % from protein
76% from fat (at least 50% from olive oil - do not worry about my heart)

With this diet you never go hungry. Protein and fat makes you content. When you go on normal carb based food it is the decrease of blood sugar that triggers the hunger. This do not happen with this diet since the body is burning fat.

You get rid of the insulin/blodsugar pump problems. And since insuline isn´t triggered since there are almost no carbs the fat you eat cannot be stored.

Most people get a better mood since they are not depending on blodsugar.

For my own part - I feel great. I have no sugar abstinence like some people get (worst at the beginning). No dizziness except for that night. I fall asleep the moment I put my head on the pillow (I have used sleeping pills for many years). The reason why is that blods ugar level contradicts our biological rhythm since we eat too much carbs.

So I can see no reason to stop....IF I can make dance work as before.

[opendoor]

Think about the Eskimos - the managed almost without carbs (until recently)

Eating flesh doesn´t mean eating protein only! Innards and offal have a high content in carbs! And enjoy Rovinj !

[Lucretia]

Is this healthy?
Here is the inventers diet suggestion in English, I can see if I can find more in English,

http://blogg.passagen.se/dahlqvistannika/?anchor=suggested_manifest
http://blogg.passagen.se/dahlqvistannika/?anchor=my_lowcarb_dietary_programe_in

This woman is a doctor. Her method is approved by Swedish health administration for treatment of people with diabetes. And it works for the rest of the human race too.

More nice reading http://tummyrumble.hultberg.org/lchf-what-why.html

On that page there is a link to an post about stone age food - palaeolithic food which has inspired this diet.
http://www.paleonu.com/

A blog
http://lowcarbhighfatusa.blogspot.com/

[sambanada]

Thank you. This is interesting

[Lucretia]

Eating flesh doesn´t mean eating protein only! Innards and offal have a high content in carbs! And enjoy Rovinj !
You are right. I found the source for this diet - and it is actually based on stone age diet. Just a little less carbs to stop the insulin pump to start up which is necessary for weight loss with this method. http://www.paleonu.com/

[Lucretia]

This is a really great blog about how the method works
http://lowcarbhighfatusa.blogspot.com/p/what-is-low-carb-high-fat.html

[Warren J. Dew]

Lucretia, I've been on low carb for almost three years - paleolithic - and I'm in ketosis about 90% of the time. The dizziness was probably one of two things:

1. There's a transition to ketosis as your brain starts to burn ketones instead of glucose. This often causes headaches and such. It might be the cause of your dizziness, perhaps as the tail end of the transition.

2. You are likely to need more water on a ketogenic diet. The dizziness may have been associated with mild dehydration.

Drink plenty of water, and you will be fine.

[Lucretia]

Lucretia, I've been on low carb for almost three years - paleolithic - and I'm in ketosis about 90% of the time.
Thanks :)
But how do dance work now? And then in the beginning? And what kind of dance? I mean bachata is one thing but a quick x-body salsa is another thing.

[Warren J. Dew]

I mostly do international standard and American smooth. What I find is that, in ketosis, I feel like I can go forever, much as described in your original post. When I drop out of ketosis and dance, I feel sluggish and tire easily.

[Lucretia]

I mostly do international standard and American smooth. What I find is that, in ketosis, I feel like I can go forever, much as described in your original post. When I drop out of ketosis and dance, I feel sluggish and tire easily.
But can you drop out after once entered that state. Without any messing with carbs I mean.

Yes I am almost sure last two dances was in ketosis. Then all worked perfectly which it hadn´t done earlier that night. But since these leaders have pretty simple patterns I couldn´t be sure if concentration was better than earlier. Next dance night will show. Unless I mistakenly have managed to charge the glycogen batteries again.

I remembered once as school kid when we was up in the mountain walking 40 km. Then I got into that state. When trying to sleep that night my legs kept walking :)

[Warren J. Dew]

But can you drop out after once entered that state. Without any messing with carbs I mean.
I drop out of ketosis when I have too much carbohydrate, and not otherwise.

However, even in ketosis, ketone levels depend on the amount of fat one is getting. That makes the difference between "I feel like I could go on forever" and "I feel like I should go on forever".