Fibonacci

[ant]

I am thinking of attending a festival and one of the workshops has the following information

Teachers Murat & Michelle Erdemsel
Theme: "Fibonacci in open embrace turns"

Any ideas what may be taught in this workshop?

[bordertangoman]

I am thinking of attending a festival and one of the workshops has the following information

Teachers Murat & Michelle Erdemsel
Theme: "Fibonacci in open embrace turns"

Any ideas what may be taught in this workshop?

spirals; mind you they should have beards, long hair and cords

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2un9rO2ZF4g (Open University bloopers)

[newbie]

Might be related to turns

http://www.abc.net.au/science/photos/mathsinnature/img/12.jpg

Seems thoses teachers have climbed one more step up on the pedantism ladder though.

[AndaBien]

I am thinking of attending a festival and one of the workshops has the following information

Teachers Murat & Michelle Erdemsel
Theme: "Fibonacci in open embrace turns"

Any ideas what may be taught in this workshop?

Molinetes starting small and growing larger.

I would think twice about attending a workshop where the teachers didn't manage to communicate even the general topic.

[Dave Bailey]

Dunno, but it's definitely a candidate for the "pretentious" thread. :rolleyes:

My next workshop is Fractal Geometry And Volcadas, by the way. :D

[Dave Bailey]

I am thinking of attending a festival and one of the workshops has the following information

Teachers Murat & Michelle Erdemsel
Theme: "Fibonacci in open embrace turns"

Any ideas what may be taught in this workshop?
It looks like this was taught at the recent Portland festival (http://www.claysdancestudio.com/valentango_11/vt11_schedule.pdf) - maybe someone here did it?

They have a list of their previous workshop titles (http://muratandmichelle.com/workshopTITLES.html) on their site - dunno if that helps much, because they obviously don't want to give any details of Top Secret Tango Secrets or whatever.

[Mladenac]

Dunno, but it's definitely a candidate for the "pretentious" thread. :rolleyes:

My next workshop is Fractal Geometry And Volcadas, by the way. :D

Everyone is unleashing their marketing voodoo skills.:snake:

If everyone teaches the same, why would I prefer one that other.

[Subliminal]

Dunno, but it's definitely a candidate for the "pretentious" thread. :rolleyes:

My next workshop is Fractal Geometry And Volcadas, by the way. :D

Whoa! Can I come? That sounds awesome. ;)

(Btw, I'm reminded of a festival I attended at couple years ago where the organizer came up with a theme along with accompanying class names. Some of the teachers rolled with it, others just rolled their eyes and went with what they intended to teach in the first place. ;) )

[Dave Bailey]

Everyone is unleashing their marketing voodoo skills.:snake:

If everyone teaches the same, why would I prefer one that other.
Let's be honest, if teachers did workshops called "walking", "pivotting", "standing", etc., no-one would come. So some degree of hype is unavoidable.

See:
Whoa! Can I come? That sounds awesome. :wink:
The scary thing is, I'd probably get enough interest from that title to make it worthwhile...

But there's a limit, and using mathematical jargon crosses that limit.

[ant]

It looks like this was taught at the recent Portland festival (http://www.claysdancestudio.com/valentango_11/vt11_schedule.pdf) - maybe someone here did it?


I know someone that went there and I will be seeing her next weekend, so thanks for the tip. Interesting that there were UK based teachers featured there.

[bordertangoman]

I'm planning giros on Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle and Walking like Schoedinger's Cat, and of course the Topology of the line of dance.

[ant]

They have a list of their previous workshop titles (http://muratandmichelle.com/workshopTITLES.html) on their site - dunno if that helps much, because they obviously don't want to give any details of Top Secret Tango Secrets or whatever.

One does wonder what this one is all about.

- Murat and Michelle's Favorite Positions

[Dave Bailey]

One does wonder what this one is all about.

- Murat and Michelle's Favorite Positions
I just sputtered my coffee over my keyboard.

[bordertangoman]

I just sputtered my coffee over my keyboard.

:lol:

[bordertangoman]

I just sputtered my coffee over my keyboard.

were you thinking about the Kama Sutra of tango? all sixty-four positions?

[ant]

...they obviously don't want to give any details of Top Secret Tango Secrets or whatever.

Hey Bailey are you psychic or something, you will never guess what two of the other workshops are tiltled..

Teachers Murat & Michelle Erdemsel
Theme: "Table of contents for tango"

Teachers Murat & Michelle Erdemsel
Theme: Masterclass "The 5 aspects of tango"

[Subliminal]

One does wonder what this one is all about.

- Murat and Michelle's Favorite Positions

:shock:

[dchester]

I'm planning giros on Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle and Walking like Schoedinger's Cat, and of course the Topology of the line of dance.
I'm thinking about offering, "A Euclidian approach to Cross System in a Parallel Universe".

[dchester]

One does wonder what this one is all about.

- Murat and Michelle's Favorite Positions
I wonder if they allow people to video that class?

[bordertangoman]

I know someone that went there and I will be seeing her next weekend, so thanks for the tip. Interesting that there were UK based teachers featured there.

did you notice they have renamed the rooms of the venue; Norse for example; why not Valhalla I wonder?

expect quaffing.....:D

[ant]

I wonder if they allow people to video that class?

As a sales stategy it will probabally take some beating.

[ant]

did you notice they have renamed the rooms of the venue; Norse for example; why not Valhalla I wonder?

expect quaffing.....:D

One of the rooms was called Paradise, will that do for Valhalla.

[Dave Bailey]

Hey Bailey are you psychic or something, you will never guess what two of the other workshops are tiltled..

Teachers Murat & Michelle Erdemsel
Theme: "Table of contents for tango"
Almost Zen, innit.

Maybe they should have a workshop entitled "To Be Decided" :)

Teachers Murat & Michelle Erdemsel
Theme: Masterclass "The 5 aspects of tango"
The First Aspect of Tango is, you do not talk about the workshops.

Etc.

[Dave Bailey]

did you notice they have renamed the rooms of the venue; Norse for example; why not Valhalla I wonder?
Ragnarok for the gancho lovers. Trondheim for those who abuse the cabaceo.

All those hours reading The Mighty Thor comic were not wasted, I can tell you.

[AndaBien]

Maybe I'll teach, "From Minnow to Milonguero; Stages in Quadrapedal locomotion".

[bordertangoman]

Ragnarok for the gancho lovers. Trondheim for those who abuse the cabaceo.

All those hours reading The Mighty Thor comic were not wasted, I can tell you.

Loki for Milonga...

[Zoopsia59]

I'm planning giros on Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle and Walking like Schoedinger's Cat, and of course the Topology of the line of dance.

Much of my dancing is based on the Uncertainty Principle and it seems true of many leaders I know too. However, walking like a angry cat that's been stuck in box for any length of time doesn't sound like it would be all that attractive... though it would certainly be the opposite of Uncertainty Principle dancing

[Zoopsia59]

I'm thinking about offering, "A Euclidian approach to Cross System in a Parallel Universe".

I'd take that! (Since I keep getting crossed and parallel mixed up anyway, I'd finally have an excuse... "I'm doing cross... I'm just doing it in a parallel universe")

[salthepal]

I hate marketing voodoo! I have taken workshops with M&M before, though (and they had normal titles, e.g. navigation, sacadas). They are decent instructors in my opinion, i.e., I've taken workshops with better instructors, but also with worse. Also, Murat gives a killer seminar on visualizing musicality. Highly recommended if it's offered.

[Dave Bailey]

I hate marketing voodoo! I have taken workshops with M&M before, though (and they had normal titles, e.g. navigation, sacadas). They are decent instructors in my opinion, i.e., I've taken workshops with better instructors, but also with worse. Also, Murat gives a killer seminar on visualizing musicality. Highly recommended if it's offered.
Well, it's easy to mock some titles, and God knows that one is a great example.

On the other hand, you could argue that teachers are simply responding to demand from students who want ever-more exotic-sounding topic names.

Then again, that doesn't mean teachers - especially well-known, respected and successful ones - need to pander to these requirements.

[bordertangoman]

How about: "How to dance the cross with a Post-Modernism's influence" ?*

*Postmodernism is a movement away from the viewpoint of modernism. More specifically it is a tendency in contemporary culture characterized by the problem of objective truth and inherent suspicion towards global cultural narrative or meta-narrative. It involves the belief that many, if not all, apparent realities are only social constructs, as they are subject to change inherent to time and place. It emphasizes the role of language, power relations, and motivations; in particular it attacks the use of sharp classifications such as male versus female, straight versus gay, white versus black, and imperial versus colonial. Rather, it holds realities to be plural and relative, and dependent on who the interested parties are and what their interests consist in. It attempts to problematise modernist overconfidence, by drawing into sharp contrast the difference between how confident speakers are of their positions versus how confident they need to be to serve their supposed purposes. Postmodernism has influenced many cultural fields, including literary criticism, sociology, linguistics, architecture, visual arts, and music.

[newbie]

Murat gives a killer seminar on visualizing musicality.

Yep, the one labelled Introduction to a dual chromatic/diatonic objectivization applied to meta-lethal sequences paradigm.

[AndaBien]

Then again, maybe the teachers are just having a laugh at their students who spend too much time focusing on titles of workshops.

[dchester]

Then again, maybe the teachers are just having a laugh at their students who spend too much time focusing on titles of workshops.
I actually don't see anything wrong with wanting to know the topic of a class before taking it.

[AndaBien]

I actually don't see anything wrong with wanting to know the topic of a class before taking it.

I think it's a very good idea.

[chanchan]

I actually don't see anything wrong with wanting to know the topic of a class before taking it.
If you decide to attend a workshop, it should be because you like the teachers, and not because you lack that specific step in your collection...

They will transmit you their technique and their way to feel the tango, no matter if the topic is a back sacada or a giro. Later, you will be able to apply the same principles to any step that you like.

Once you know that the topic of the class in argentine tango it can be enough.

[Dave Bailey]

If you decide to attend a workshop, it should be because you like the teachers, and not because you lack that specific step in your collection...
I'd be very unlikely to attend a workshop based on it teaching a step.

Whilst, yes, I'd attend a workshop based on my opinion of the teachers (or a recommendation from a trusted source), I'd also want to know what the workshop is about.

Ideally, I'd want a decent description of the workshop topics, structure, and level (http://www.learningtango.com/Workshops/Tango-Nuevo-Style-And-Musicality.html).

For example... ;)

[dchester]

If you decide to attend a workshop, it should be because you like the teachers, and not because you lack that specific step in your collection...

They will transmit you their technique and their way to feel the tango, no matter if the topic is a back sacada or a giro. Later, you will be able to apply the same principles to any step that you like.

Once you know that the topic of the class in argentine tango it can be enough.
I disagree. If the class is on back sacadas and I don't want to do back sacadas, I don't care who the teacher is. I'm not taking the class.

If I want to learn some type of giro variation and a teacher is offering a class on what I want to learn, I will take their class (unless I know that I do not like them or their teaching ability). If I've never had a class from them, and it's a topic I'm interested in, I will give them a try.

YMMV

[chanchan]

Ideally, I'd want a decent description of the workshop topics, structure, and level (http://www.learningtango.com/Workshops/Tango-Nuevo-Style-And-Musicality.html).

For example... ;)
I admit that a whole page describing their method can be someway useful, especially if you don't know those teacher, but we are talking about the titles of the lessons: musicality, expression, and possibly some fun is what I expect from any workshop... is it really a big information?

[Dave Bailey]

musicality, expression, and possibly some fun is what I expect from any workshop.
What is this "fun" of which you speak? :D

[chanchan]

I disagree. If the class is on back sacadas and I don't want to do back sacadas, I don't care who the teacher is. I'm not taking the class.

I hope that class is not "on back sacadas". The class in on tango, and back sacada or giro are just means to teach their approach to tango.

[dchester]

I hope that class is not "on back sacadas". The class in on tango, and back sacada or giro are just means to teach their approach to tango.
Believe it or not, an awful lot of classes are on a specific aspect of tango, or even a specific type of move in tango. Not every class is on the instructor's approach to tango.

FWIW, if I wanted to learn about a specific move, I'd be more inclined to take a class on that specific move, rather than a class on the teachers approach to tango. Maybe I'm unusual, but that has been my approach.

[ant]

If you decide to attend a workshop, it should be because you like the teachers, and not because you lack that specific step in your collection...


Would it not be unreasonable to know who the teacher is and what the subject matter of the class will be?

[chanchan]

What is this "fun" of which you speak? :D
Trying new positions... transgressive fantasies... :D
...soltadas!

[salthepal]

Yep, the one labelled Introduction to a dual chromatic/diatonic objectivization applied to meta-lethal sequences paradigm.

In all seriousness, that musicality presentation is really good. Maybe I was just impressed with the concept of painting a song. Take a look.

muratandmichelle . com / LECTURE / LECTURE/ Home . html

edit: just to clarify, what I'm talking about is not a tango workshop per se; it's a lecture, accompanied with music and videos.

[chanchan]

FWIW, if I wanted to learn about a specific move, I'd be more inclined to take a class on that specific move, rather than a class on the teachers approach to tango. Maybe I'm unusual, but that has been my approach.
I'm not saying your approach is unusual, on the contrary, it seems to be widespread.
I just find it too much focused on moves.

[ant]

In all seriousness, that musicality presentation is really good. Maybe I was just impressed with the concept of painting a song. Take a look.

muratandmichelle . com / LECTURE / LECTURE/ Home . html

edit: just to clarify, what I'm talking about is not a tango workshop per se; it's a lecture, accompanied with music and videos.

They are offering something similar at the festival I am looking at.

Lecture
20:00 - 21:00 (zaal2)
Lecture Art, Music and Dance by Murat Erdemsel
Entrance € 5 p.p inclusive salon (milonga)

[ant]

I just find it too much focused on moves.

Why is this so bad and any less helpful than whatever approach you would like to take? Infact I would have thought this more specific approach more helpful if you have certain areas of difficulty compared the very general non specific approach you are advocating.

I would have thought the best way (private lesson accepted) to try and improve on an area you need help with is to find a class on that subject matter.

And,I suspect that you are interpreting dchester to narrowly. The topic could be a particular type of move or a particular piece of technique or a particular type of music.

[Zoopsia59]

If you decide to attend a workshop, it should be because you like the teachers, and not because you lack that specific step in your collection...
On the rare occasions that I take any group instruction these days (class or workshop format) it would be for one of two reasons:

I have found through past experience that the teachers advance my tango no matter what the subject is and I grab any opportunity to work with them some more.

The class subject is in an area that I feel I need to improve and I HOPE, if the teacher is unfamiliar to me, that I will get something from their class.

Notice that nowhere did I mention adding a step to my collection, however, my decision is not always based on the teacher either.

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

On the rare occasions that I take any group instruction these days (class or workshop format) it would be for one of two reasons:

I have found through past experience that the teachers advance my tango no matter what the subject is and I grab any opportunity to work with them some more.

The class subject is in an area that I feel I need to improve and I HOPE, if the teacher is unfamiliar to me, that I will get something from their class.



I liked the way you formulated it, Zoopsia, and realized it is true for me, too.
The third of my reasons would be: "I just need to mop the floor", but that one hardly stands alone these days.

[bordertangoman]

I liked the way you formulated it, Zoopsia, and realized it is true for me, too.
The third of my reasons would be: "I just need to mop the floor", but that one hardly stands alone these days.

"I just need to sweep the floor" we'd make a good couple on the dance floor.....

On moves; the good teachers focus on technique and how this part of the dance works with the music.....

[chanchan]

the good teachers focus on technique and how this part of the dance works with the music.....
This is the point: if they are good teachers, I expect that the real topics of he lesson would be things like technique, musicality, connection.
Independently of the examples that they will show.

[Madahlia]

Whilst, yes, I'd attend a workshop based on my opinion of the teachers (or a recommendation from a trusted source), I'd also want to know what the workshop is about.

;)

I would certainly prefer to know what the workshop was about. However, there's no guarantee that the teachers will stick to the plan as it clearly depends on their estimate of the general level of the class. It also depends on how I've interpreted the title and how they've interpreted the title.

There seems to be an ever-increasing flood of Argentinian teachers flooding through the UK at the mo, each one billed as more legendary than the last, the vast majority of which no-one, except the organiser, has ever heard of. A certain leap of faith is required to spend my money on these.

I would be happy to take classes in just walking if I felt the teacher had special qualities to transmit. (Or indeed, anyway.)

Notice that nowhere did I mention adding a step to my collection, however, my decision is not always based on the teacher either. I've occasionally done this but it usually turns out to be pretty fruitless. Do followers need to know steps?

One cast-iron guarantee I'd like to have these days before spending my hard-earned is that 50% of the class will be focussed upon addressing the followers' needs and duties. My days of acting as a paying dummy for the blokes' moves are over!

[bordertangoman]

There seems to be an ever-increasing flood of Argentinian teachers flooding through the UK at the mo, each one billed as more legendary than the last, the vast majority of which no-one, except the organiser, has ever heard of. A certain leap of faith is required to spend my money on these.

!

oh yes "the legendary" Guido El-tipo-raro-de-en el-norte Davido
is visiting us..
he must be good if he has a long monica though

a legend in his own CV no doubt ;) ;)

[Madahlia]

oh yes "the legendary" Guido El-tipo-raro-de-en el-norte Davido
is visiting us..
he must be good if he has a long monica though

a legend in his own CV no doubt ;) ;)

He's not as good as Maestro Beyly El Calvito del Sur.

[Dave Bailey]

I would certainly prefer to know what the workshop was about. However, there's no guarantee that the teachers will stick to the plan as it clearly depends on their estimate of the general level of the class. It also depends on how I've interpreted the title and how they've interpreted the title.
Indeed, "no battle plan survives contact with the enemy" :)

That said, if you run a workshop rather than a class, you should have an idea of who's attending and their rough level of experience. If you don't, you're just teaching a class.

In fact:
There seems to be an ever-increasing flood of Argentinian teachers flooding through the UK at the mo, each one billed as more legendary than the last, the vast majority of which no-one, except the organiser, has ever heard of. A certain leap of faith is required to spend my money on these.
They may well be legendary, but they have no idea of who they'll be teaching. They're strangers, and they're teaching strangers. Which makes the workshops simple classes.

So I guess my view would be "don't take classes from strangers".

One cast-iron guarantee I'd like to have these days before spending my hard-earned is that 50% of the class will be focussed upon addressing the followers' needs and duties. My days of acting as a paying dummy for the blokes' moves are over!
I guess one obvious way to proceed is to look for lessons where both of the couple are actual teachers, and where provide equal amount of input.

[bordertangoman]

He's not as good as Maestro Beyly El Calvito del Sur.

:lol: there will be gaucho knives at dawn......

[Dave Bailey]

He's not as good as Maestro Beyly El Calvito del Sur.
Ah, you've read my CV (http://www.learningtango.com/Humour/Resume.html) I see. :D

[bordertangoman]

Ah, you've read my CV (http://www.learningtango.com/Humour/Resume.html) I see. :D

lol i'd forgotten about that..you must recycle these hidden gems..that's cheered me up...

Guido is more of a Does-Exaclty What it Says on the Tin...sort of tango teacher.....

[ant]

IAlso, Murat gives a killer seminar on visualizing musicality. Highly recommended if it's offered.

It was on offer. It was very professionally presented and basically trying to distinguish between rhythm and melody. He also used two videos to show how to use the music and these are the links

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvVQOOu1AUY&NR=1&feature=fvwp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEhF-7suDsM

Personally I found them both useful and entertaining.

[ant]

I hate marketing voodoo! I have taken workshops with M&M before, though (and they had normal titles, e.g. navigation, sacadas). They are decent instructors in my opinion, i.e., I've taken workshops with better instructors, but also with worse.

I agree with your observations on M&M.

However they did carry the themes of their titles through to the workshops. For instance on the Fibonacci workshops he tried to relate Fibonacci's theory of number progression and increasing sizes of spiral with drawings to the Tango workshop he was teaching. He also used a number of other visualisations in other workshops.

Generally when talking with people afterwards what seemed interesting to me was that the ladies found a number of his visualisation ideas very helpful but the men were a bit switched off. I have to say that I was a bit switched off but after speaking with the ladies I tried to open my mind a bit more and with hindsight I think they they have helped.

[bordertangoman]

he missed out on this then

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fxm0TN5WDQI&feature=related