Tango Orchestra Preferences

[UKDancer]

If the four main 'schools' of Golden Age tango music are represented by the orchestras of

Di Sarli
D'Arienzo
Troilo
Pugliese
I wonder why their music is played so unequally at the milongas I have attended (admittedly, not many). I hear very little Pugliese (but love his music making) and probably less still of Troilo, to whom I warm more and more.

Di Sarli seems to be the #1, and while i do enjoy his style of music making, he seems to be cursed with the worst recording quality (compared with the others) and while I may be unusual, I find listening to poor, destorted, sound quality for lengthy periods rather fatiguing, and it definitely reduces the pleasure I take from the music making (regardless of the assumed quality of the original).

How would others rank the four main 'schools' of tango music (for dancing), and why are there so few tango orchestras still recording? (And yes, I do know they're all dead: I meant others!)

[Joe]

Supply and demand?

[UKDancer]

Supply and demand?

Has interest in tango ever stood higher, since 1955?

[Joe]

Supply. Has availability of tango recordings ever stood higher, since 1955?

[bordertangoman]

what happened to Canaro, Calo, Tanturi...

[UKDancer]

Supply. Has availability of tango recordings ever stood higher, since 1955?

Probably not, but to make a comparison, almost no one chooses to dance in other dance styles to recorded music of a simlar age (60-90 years old) although there is plenty of it around.

[UKDancer]

what happened to Canaro, Calo, Tanturi...

Nothing, but the 'big four' isn't my label. Who would be yours? I would probably be happy to swap Canaro for D'Arienzo.

[Nathan]

music is played so unequally at the milongas I have attended (admittedly, not many). I hear very little Pugliese (but love his music making) and probably less still of Troilo, to whom I warm more and more.
They are played unequally because they tend to have different effects on the dancers, and some of these are more desirable than others. For instance, D'Arienzo and Di Sarli have very clear beats for dancing, so they are preferred when there are lots of bad dancers or beginners around, or when the floor is packed. Pugliese's music is not only intense, promoting powerful and/or large movements, but the structure is difficult to dance musically for anyone who hasn't heard each song dozens of times. Troilo's has the most complexity to it, and can frustrate even experienced dancers; many even say that it's not fit for dancing!

So, in the end, the reason for the disparity is that D'Arienzo and Di Sarli are playable just about any time, while specific conditions are necessary for Pugliese and Troilo to be appropriate (i.e. low floor density and skilled dancers).

[bordertangoman]

troilo is difficult?

[opendoor]

..the four main 'schools' of Golden Age tango music are represented by the orchestras of

Di Sarli
D'Arienzo
Troilo
Pugliese


How would others rank the four main 'schools' of tango music (for dancing), and why are there so few tango orchestras still recording? (And yes, I do know they're all dead: I meant others!)

Don´t agree that much:

-So there are different phases and developments within these orchestras, especially with Troilo`s and Pugliese´s. So I would not even mention late Troilo and early Pugliese.

-The above mentioned orchestras had their prime at different decades.

I would divide into these stylistic prototypes (concerning the time before Pugliese mutated to Tango fantasia):

*Tango bravo (also often misleadingly named Tango-Milonga) D'Arienzo/Biagi
*Tango-Romanza: Malerba/Caló/Donato
*Tango orchestrale: Troilo/Pugliese



..and why are there so few tango orchestras still recording? If you would have the choice between playing Retro-Tango without much income and Neo- or contemporary tango with the option of some money, or at least some musical reputation, what would you choose?

[dchester]

If the four main 'schools' of Golden Age tango music are represented by the orchestras of

Di Sarli
D'Arienzo
Troilo
Pugliese

I wonder why their music is played so unequally at the milongas I have attended (admittedly, not many). I hear very little Pugliese (but love his music making) and probably less still of Troilo, to whom I warm more and more.

Di Sarli seems to be the #1, and while i do enjoy his style of music making, he seems to be cursed with the worst recording quality (compared with the others) and while I may be unusual, I find listening to poor, destorted, sound quality for lengthy periods rather fatiguing, and it definitely reduces the pleasure I take from the music making (regardless of the assumed quality of the original).

How would others rank the four main 'schools' of tango music (for dancing), and why are there so few tango orchestras still recording? (And yes, I do know they're all dead: I meant others!)
When you say, "school", I'm not positive what you mean. I'm assuming it's some type of categorization, but it might be helpfull if you would elaborate on what you mean by this.

Without talking about categories, but rather orchestras, it would seem that your experience is radically different from mine. One example, many of the Di Sarli songs typically played around these parts, tend to have a higher technical quality, not lower as you described.

However, the biggest difference (between what you described and my experience) is in the various orchestras played at milongas. Di Sarli is not played any more than possibly a list of other orchestras, like (Canaro, D'Arienzo, D'Agostino, Calo, Rodriguez), probably others too, but I'm not at home to look up songs right now.

The amount of Pugliese tandas played at a typical milonga here varies from one to zero on a given night (same with Troilo). Some other Orchestras that might be played as often as those two (or possibly even more), are Tanturi, Donato, Fresedo, De Angelis, Biagi, and others.

Of course, each DJ has their own preferences (as do I), which will influence what they play, but rarely (in a 4 hour milonga) are more than two tango tandas played by the same orchestra, (although you might get an additional milonga or vals tanda by the same orchestra).

[bastet]

If I am reading opendoor's post right, then I tend to agree about time frame, but that's just me.

My main preferences tend to be Rodgriguez, Donato, D'Arienzo, Canaro, Calo, and Biagi.

Opendoor- my understanding of the term "tango-milonga" was that it was a musical reference written on the score to mean that it was a tango meant for dancing (tango for the milonga), as opposed to somethng like "tango-cancion", a la Gardel.

[bordertangoman]

If you would have the choice between playing Retro-Tango without much income and contemporary tango with the option of some money, or at least some musical reputation, what would you choose?

I would play the music i like dancing to....my musical reputation is of no concern
but my musicality isnt dependent on reputation

I think putting orchestras into categories is a fairly arbitrary distinction..

like comparing Piazzolla's Oblivion, to Escualo to Adios Nonino; its all Piazolla but each piece is unique...

I dont like Colour Tango but like Berretin; so it would leave me with some nice tracks like Felicia, Nuevo de Julio, Garufa, Ventarron,

but ultimately it would depend on which category Pugliese falls into,

without La Yumba, A Evarristo Carriego, Zum, Gallo Ciego tango would be a souless experience....

[opendoor]

I meant the musician´s point of view, not the DJ. Have I got it right?

By the way, a nice little blog on Tango history

http://www.verytango.com/milonga-style.html

[UKDancer]

When you say, "school", I'm not positive what you mean. I'm assuming it's some type of categorization, but it might be helpfull if you would elaborate on what you mean by this.

Perhaps 'school' is the wrong word, but most tango music sites seem to suggest that these four are the most popular/leading orchestras, each representative of a particular style (although each recorded over a long period, and their individual styles changed over time too).

For example, www.milonga.co.uk (http://www.milonga.co.uk) suggests that:
To begin your collection, we suggest you get discs of Di Sarli, D'Arienzo, Pugliese and Troilo.
And then suggests particular albums (and I took the advice and bought them).

And at www.tejastango.com (http://www.tejastango.com) we find similar advice:
A purchaser can improve the odds of finding good dance music by watching for the four big names in tango social dance music: Juan D' Arienzo, Carlos Di Sarli, Osvaldo Pugliese, and Anibal Troilo. Their orchestras were among the most popular during the golden age of tango, and their music is still prominently featured at milongas in Buenos Aires.

I wouldn't read too much into my limited experience, because it is, well, limited, but I am suprised at how little Pugliese or Troilo I hear.

[bastet]

Perhaps 'school' is the wrong word, but most tango music sites seem to suggest that these four are the most popular/leading orchestras, each representative of a particular style (although each recorded over a long period, and their individual styles changed over time too).

For example, www.milonga.co.uk (http://www.milonga.co.uk) suggests that:

And then suggests particular albums (and I took the advice and bought them).

And at www.tejastango.com (http://www.tejastango.com) we find similar advice:


I wouldn't read too much into my limited experience, because it is, well, limited, but I am suprised at how little Pugliese or Troilo I hear.

Well, I stand with dchester with this. It's the same around here, most times and my Di Sarli tends to be of better sound quality than some others I also like. Fortunately, I don't particularly like dancing to either Troilo or Pugliese, so it's no skin off my nose that its not played as much by most DJs in my area, and certianly not by professional DJ's at festivals, thank goodness.

I would say the reason you don't tend to hear as much Pugliese is partly because it's fairly difficult to dance to and maybe partly that the melodrama or intensity of the music tends to make people act crazy and a good DJ isn't going to let that happen on a dance floor and perhaps other reasons I can't think of.

There is some earlier Pugliese that's a bit more danceable, but the melodramatic late 50's stuff gets on my nerves for dancing to, though I enjoy listening to it well enough.

As for recommending beginners to have it in their collection, well, as an appreciation exercise and a "save it for later" piece for advice for dancing, then I say sure why not?

[Andreas Wichter]

I'll give it a try, gearing up for a DJing gig in Italy I have to deal with these issues anyway.
So this doesn't get too unwieldy, I'll do single posts for each of the 4 orhcestras mentioned.
Some people seem to regard Di Sarli as simple and straightforward. I can't quite agree on that view, as his music has great depth and complexity. However, it is quite danceable for beginners, too, as evidenced by its frequent use in beginner classes. Di Sarli's strength lies in the fact that the same tracks that are quite easy for beginners to dance to (due to the relatively clear beat) are at the same time challenging and rewarding for seasoned dancers who can squeeze much more out of it. Add to that the fact that Di Sarli has recorded from 1928 until 1959, and you have a wealth of markedly varied music that can fuel a wide range of moods. Rhythmic, lyrical or dramatic - Di Sarli delivers.
Furthermore, I regard Di Sarli as the greatest of the Golden Age orchestras. If I were to pick one orchestra to demonstrate what tango is, and can be, Di Sarli would be my pick. It's iconic.
From a DJ's perspective then: I always find it hardest about the job to pick what *not* to play, something especially bad with short milongas (less than 6 hours or so). Only one tanda of Di Sarli during the evening? Impossible. Two? The bare minimum that still leaves me with tough choices. My first pick is usually Rufino, as I can't really not play him. But then you still have Podesta, Duran, early instrumentals (Sexteto) and at least the classic 40s instrumentals clamouring to be played. And let us not disregard the 50s stuff - at the right moment in the milonga those can be exceptionally good.
So with a 5-6 hour milonga I usually end up playing at leat 3 or 4 tandas of Di Sarli, not counting valses (sometimes Di Sarli makes the cut there) and milongas (rarely makes the cut).
Shall I go on or are you guys bored already?

[opendoor]

...There is some earlier Pugliese that's a bit more danceable, but the melodramatic late 50's stuff gets on my nerves for dancing to, though I enjoy listening to it well enough...

It took almost 5 years since I had enough courage to dance openly to a Pugliese piece. And actually, my dear minimalistically dancing friends: you also feel much better on the dance floor with some figures in your repertoire when this kind of music is on.

Last weekend I was thrown out of a milonga. Ouuuuutch. It came this way. I arrived late, and was hyper and binged up, but that Pugliese tanda just started in that moment. I could not start the milonga with Pugliese then, and also all suitable women already were on the dance floor. And by the way, 5 Pugliese pieces will take almost half an hour (5 Biagis only 10 minutes). After 15 minutes I ran to the argentine owner and former show girl complaining, that this must have been the sixth piece. During this tanda she was sunken in her little shop selling shoes and other fancy tango stuff: My reproachful question woke her up and she exploded: "Are you unable to count, you are not musically, you are disturbing all that atmosphere, please leave the party, leave us alone, I dont want to see you any more..... a.s.o

[bordertangoman]

And at www.tejastango.com (http://www.tejastango.com) we find similar advice:

.

at www.tejas it also says We think, however, that the beginning dancer will do better by listening and moving to the tangos on Francisco Canaro's La Melodia de Nuestro Adios and Miguel Caló's Yo Soy el Tango before moving onto Di Sarli.

[bordertangoman]

[QUOTE=bastet;866225] partly that the melodrama or intensity of the music tends to make people act crazy and a QUOTE]



like this?

http://www.societies.cam.ac.uk/molly/

[UKDancer]

at www.tejas (http://www.tejas) it also says We think, however, that the beginning dancer will do better by listening and moving to the tangos on Francisco Canaro's La Melodia de Nuestro Adios and Miguel Caló's Yo Soy el Tango before moving onto Di Sarli.

I don't have that particular Canaro disc (but several others), but I do have the Caló, but I would probably happily take that advice. I don't like the balance of Di Sarli's sound, much. Those 'lush' strings (his trademark?) just drown out the bandoneons, and in thin 50s sound, they whine rather than sing in my ears. Perhaps it's just me.

Anyway, I must be a philistine - I like Color Tango! No one else seems to...

[dchester]

Perhaps 'school' is the wrong word, but most tango music sites seem to suggest that these four are the most popular/leading orchestras, each representative of a particular style (although each recorded over a long period, and their individual styles changed over time too).

For example, www.milonga.co.uk (http://www.milonga.co.uk) suggests that: To begin your collection, we suggest you get discs of Di Sarli, D'Arienzo, Pugliese and Troilo. And then suggests particular albums (and I took the advice and bought them).

And at www.tejastango.com (http://www.tejastango.com) we find similar advice: A purchaser can improve the odds of finding good dance music by watching for the four big names in tango social dance music: Juan D' Arienzo, Carlos Di Sarli, Osvaldo Pugliese, and Anibal Troilo. Their orchestras were among the most popular during the golden age of tango, and their music is still prominently featured at milongas in Buenos Aires. I wouldn't read too much into my limited experience, because it is, well, limited, but I am suprised at how little Pugliese or Troilo I hear.
Before I start, let me say that I do like (a lot) some of the really dramatic Pugliese and Troilo stuff. However, it's simply not played as much as some other orchestras, at most milongas I have been to (and that would include some of the traditional milongas in BsAs). When it is typically played, is later in the evening, when the newbies have left, and there is more space to dance. I will concede that people who go to a lot of the alternative/nuevo milongas might have a completely different experience from me.

In any case, I disagree with the quotes you presented, as some of the other orchestras previously listed (in the prior posts) will comprise the majority of a "typical" milonga, IME.

For a newbie, Canaro, Calo, & Rodriguez should be right up there, along with Di Sarli & D'Arienzo.

BTW, this Di Sarli CD has very good sound quality (at least for a tango CD).
http://www.tangocd.com/Tango_Music/prodView.asp?idproduct=193&idCat=47&curPage=1&sortField=pop

[UKDancer]

BTW, this Di Sarli CD has very good sound quality (at least for a tango CD).
http://www.tangocd.com/Tango_Music/prodView.asp?idproduct=193&idCat=47&curPage=1&sortField=pop

I already have the RCA Inolvidables (20 Grandes Exitos) disc, which also includes many of the same late instrumentals, but I did order the other one the other day, but it's only available here now as an import, and I'm waiting for it to arrive. It fills some gaps, but even with the duplications, is good value at less than £6, including air mail postage from the US (via Amazon).

I don't have much Rodriguez, but have just been listening to 'Mujeres Feas', which made me laugh out loud (from the 4-disc set by Tango Federico, which was very inexpensive, and full of good music).

[dchester]

I don't have much Rodriguez, but have just been listening to 'Mujeres Feas', which made me laugh out loud (from the 4-disc set by Tango Federico, which was very inexpensive, and full of good music).
That song (actually the Rodriguez CD it's on), is on my list of CDs to get, the next time I place a big order (assuming I don't arrange a swap with another DJ who has it).

I've only heard it played (as a milonga) by one Teacher/DJ (originally from Argentina), and I really liked it. Although, Tango CD says that it is actually a Foxtrot.

Here is the song, for others to know what we are talking about.

XWRVpuybPnM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWRVpuybPnM


BTW, the majority of the Rodriguez songs typically played around here can be found on these two CDs:

Tangos Con Armando Moreno
http://www.tangocd.com/Tango_Music/prodView.asp?idproduct=375&idCat=60&curPage=1&sortField=pop

Tangos Con Armando Moreno vol 2
http://www.tangocd.com/Tango_Music/prodView.asp?idproduct=203&idCat=60&curPage=1&sortField=pop

[ant]

However, the biggest difference (between what you described and my experience) is in the various orchestras played at milongas. Di Sarli is not played any more than possibly a list of other orchestras, like (Canaro, D'Arienzo, D'Agostino, Calo, Rodriguez), probably others too, but I'm not at home to look up songs right now

The amount of Pugliese tandas played at a typical milonga here varies from one to zero on a given night (same with Troilo). Some other Orchestras that might be played as often as those two (or possibly even more), are Tanturi, Donato, Fresedo, De Angelis, Biagi, and others.

I would say that this is in line with my experience for milongas but I would add Laurenz as well to your first grouping.

[salthepal]

Maintaining an orchestra is hard work. You need regular practice and it costs a lot. The Golden-age orchestras weren't doing it solely for the pleasure of making good music; they were being paid big money. Modern ensembles have to set aside time from their main bread and butter work to practice their tango songs and have to travel far and wide. You would need a really big population of tango dancers concentrated in a small geographic area and who dance very often and are willing to pay a premium for having good live music to dance to. Make these conditions happen, and you will probably see a lot of really good tango orchestras.

[UKDancer]

Maintaining an orchestra is hard work. You need regular practice and it costs a lot. The Golden-age orchestras weren't doing it solely for the pleasure of making good music; they were being paid big money. Modern ensembles have to set aside time from their main bread and butter work to practice their tango songs and have to travel far and wide. You would need a really big population of tango dancers concentrated in a small geographic area and who dance very often and are willing to pay a premium for having good live music to dance to. Make these conditions happen, and you will probably see a lot of really good tango orchestras.

And they don't even exist in BsAs? Well, obviously not, I guess.

[salthepal]

And they don't even exist in BsAs? Well, obviously not, I guess.

There are a few that do play regularly at milongas(Fernandez Fierro, Sexteto Milonguero, Sexteto Canyengue), but Argentina is not as rich as it was in the 1930-40s.

[opendoor]

That song (actually the Rodriguez CD it's on), is on my list of CDs to get..

Linda

Think the clip stems from the Clipper energy-drink ad.

[dchester]

And they don't even exist in BsAs? Well, obviously not, I guess.
I'd say that every 2 months (or so), there will be a milonga (close enough for me to drive to), that has live music. (Basically, every now and then, different milongas will bring in a band).

[UKDancer]

There are a few that do play regularly at milongas(Fernandez Fierro, Sexteto Milonguero, Sexteto Canyengue), but Argentina is not as rich as it was in the 1930-40s.

True, but tango is important to the BsAs economy, and the dance exports successfully all over the world. It just puzzles me that there are virtually no traditional tango orchestras who record anywhere? We have Tango Siempre in UK, but their recorded output is barely danceable (it wasn't meant to be, I think), but they play for dancing regularly.

Is there a danger that we are creating shrines to a past age, in not keeping the music alive (and live). The dance has moved on, but the music is frozen in time, unless electotango is to your taste (and it isn't to mine, except in very small doses).

[dchester]

True, but tango is important to the BsAs economy, and the dance exports successfully all over the world. It just puzzles me that there are virtually no traditional tango orchestras who record anywhere? We have Tango Siempre in UK, but their recorded output is barely danceable (it wasn't meant to be, I think), but they play for dancing regularly.

Is there a danger that we are creating shrines to a past age, in not keeping the music alive (and live). The dance has moved on, but the music is frozen in time, unless electotango is to your taste (and it isn't to mine, except in very small doses).
My opinion is that a lot of the bands that get into tango theses days, don't do as well as they could (even though the average musician today is much better, IMO, than the musicians of the past) because:


The Musicians are often playing more for themselves than for dancers.
They play a lot more Pugliese (and Piazzolla) than what is typically found at milongas.
Some of the arrangements of very popular songs have more of a jazz feel to them.


I will say that when you get a good band that sticks (mostly) to songs from the golden era, and doesn't do too many tempos changes and stuff when playing, the crowd just goes crazy with excitement. People get out there to dance, and don't want to sit until the set is over.

[Subliminal]

Is there a danger that we are creating shrines to a past age, in not keeping the music alive (and live). The dance has moved on, but the music is frozen in time, unless electotango is to your taste (and it isn't to mine, except in very small doses).

I've made this point before in other tango threads. Modern tango musicians just don't get enough respect. And heaven forbid anyone tries to compose a new tango. heh.

I like electrotango. Well, not all of it. Some of the Gotan stuff can get a little repetitive. I think we need to explore more modern music, or do away with the stigma of dancing tango to non-tango music. Golden Age music will always be great, but for the dance to grow and reach new audiences it has to be danced to music that the people can connect to.

[Andreas Wichter]

Hi everyone,
I posted something earlier, but i got held up in moderation, just got through and ended up on page 2 of this thread. So if you're interested go look. I was planning to post 3 more, but now I'm not sure I want to bother. It's a bit tedious with that kind of lag...
Andreas

[Gssh]

My opinion is that a lot of the bands that get into tango theses days, don't do as well as they could (even though the average musician today is much better, IMO, than the musicians of the past) because:


The Musicians are often playing more for themselves than for dancers.
They play a lot more Pugliese (and Piazzolla) than what is typically found at milongas.
Some of the arrangements of very popular songs have more of a jazz feel to them.


My impression is that they often simply don't like dancers very much. My yardstick are always good rave dj's - they are basically able to shape the dancefloor into whatever they want. And that particular skillset seems to be completely missing with most modern orchestras. I experienced a few exceptions, and those were glorious evenings.

I really think it is Piazzolla's fault - everytime i dance to him - even to his more danceable pieces - i feel like he is sneering at the dancefloor and doing his best to make people uncomfortable. I know some people cherish the challenge, but i am not dancing to get in a game of one-upmanship with the orchestra (especially if it is a recording - i actually could imagine this to be fun in a kinda flamenco way with a live band if it was done consensual). It is the leaders equivalent to followers who like being thrown and pretzeled through over-ambituous moves.

Other people are mischievieous - like the way tanturi likes to throw out red herrings about what is going to happen in the song, but it doesn't feel malicious - he is lauging with the dancers, not at them, and in the end he (at least to me) feels like he is supportive of the dancers.

Gssh

[dchester]

Hi everyone,
I posted something earlier, but i got held up in moderation, just got through and ended up on page 2 of this thread. So if you're interested go look. I was planning to post 3 more, but now I'm not sure I want to bother. It's a bit tedious with that kind of lag...
Andreas
If you put in links to web pages, they get flagged for moderation (I think for the first few hundred posts, or something).

[Andreas Wichter]

No links. I PMd Steve and he had no idea why it got into moderation. Go figure.
Anyway, the discussion has moved on, so I'm not sure whether to continue - I talked about Di Sarli in that post.

[dchester]

I'll give it a try, gearing up for a DJing gig in Italy I have to deal with these issues anyway.
So this doesn't get too unwieldy, I'll do single posts for each of the 4 orhcestras mentioned.
Some people seem to regard Di Sarli as simple and straightforward. I can't quite agree on that view, as his music has great depth and complexity. However, it is quite danceable for beginners, too, as evidenced by its frequent use in beginner classes. Di Sarli's strength lies in the fact that the same tracks that are quite easy for beginners to dance to (due to the relatively clear beat) are at the same time challenging and rewarding for seasoned dancers who can squeeze much more out of it. Add to that the fact that Di Sarli has recorded from 1928 until 1959, and you have a wealth of markedly varied music that can fuel a wide range of moods. Rhythmic, lyrical or dramatic - Di Sarli delivers.
Furthermore, I regard Di Sarli as the greatest of the Golden Age orchestras. If I were to pick one orchestra to demonstrate what tango is, and can be, Di Sarli would be my pick. It's iconic.
From a DJ's perspective then: I always find it hardest about the job to pick what *not* to play, something especially bad with short milongas (less than 6 hours or so). Only one tanda of Di Sarli during the evening? Impossible. Two? The bare minimum that still leaves me with tough choices. My first pick is usually Rufino, as I can't really not play him. But then you still have Podesta, Duran, early instrumentals (Sexteto) and at least the classic 40s instrumentals clamouring to be played. And let us not disregard the 50s stuff - at the right moment in the milonga those can be exceptionally good.
So with a 5-6 hour milonga I usually end up playing at leat 3 or 4 tandas of Di Sarli, not counting valses (sometimes Di Sarli makes the cut there) and milongas (rarely makes the cut).
Shall I go on or are you guys bored already?

I'm not bored yet, so I guess you can continue.

http://www.dance-forums.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[AndaBien]

...Some people seem to regard Di Sarli as simple and straightforward. I can't quite agree on that view, as his music has great depth and complexity. However, it is quite danceable for beginners, too, as evidenced by its frequent use in beginner classes. Di Sarli's strength lies in the fact that the same tracks that are quite easy for beginners to dance to (due to the relatively clear beat) are at the same time challenging and rewarding for seasoned dancers who can squeeze much more out of it...

I quite agree!

Yes, please keep posting.

[Andreas Wichter]

Alright then, D'Arienzo:
I absolutely totally love D'Arienzo, but he has also produced some utter total crap along with the brilliant stuff. The brilliant is usually from the earlier years, later it gets worse and worse. It's been said he sometimes showed "bad taste" - I think that is accurate.
D'Arienzo has a smaller range than Di Sarli - there is much less difference between different tracks, so there is slightly less incentive to use him. A bit of a one-trick pony, you might say.
Now I'm making him sound like an inferior musician... not the case, I am just comparing him to the very best, and yes, overall Di Sarli is better.
That being said, the good stuff is just great, it's just that there is less variation.
D'Arienzo is often a bit intimidating for beginners I think, because there is so much going on and it is a bit relentless generally. Once one understands that one doesn't have to run, it gets easier. For more advanced dancers, D'Arienzo allows you to go a bit crazy I guess.
When DJing, I usually play 1 or 2 tandas of D'Arienzo, during a longer evening (6 hours or so) maybe 3, but that excludes valses (1 tanda usually) and milongas (1 tanda).
So in conclusion then: tango: not as much as Di Sarli; vals: same or more; milonga: more.

[dchester]

Alright then, D'Arienzo:
I absolutely totally love D'Arienzo, but he has also produced some utter total crap along with the brilliant stuff. The brilliant is usually from the earlier years, later it gets worse and worse. It's been said he sometimes showed "bad taste" - I think that is accurate.
D'Arienzo has a smaller range than Di Sarli - there is much less difference between different tracks, so there is slightly less incentive to use him. A bit of a one-trick pony, you might say.
Now I'm making him sound like an inferior musician... not the case, I am just comparing him to the very best, and yes, overall Di Sarli is better.
That being said, the good stuff is just great, it's just that there is less variation.
D'Arienzo is often a bit intimidating for beginners I think, because there is so much going on and it is a bit relentless generally. Once one understands that one doesn't have to run, it gets easier. For more advanced dancers, D'Arienzo allows you to go a bit crazy I guess.
When DJing, I usually play 1 or 2 tandas of D'Arienzo, during a longer evening (6 hours or so) maybe 3, but that excludes valses (1 tanda usually) and milongas (1 tanda).
So in conclusion then: tango: not as much as Di Sarli; vals: same or more; milonga: more.
I'm not sure which one of these applies to me.

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[Andreas Wichter]

Troilo:
There are three groups of Troilo tangos I usually play: The 1941 instrumentals like Cachirulo and Cordon de Oro, the 1941-43 recordings with Fiorentino, and the recordings with Alberto Marino (1943+). The first group is quite limited in number, with Fiorentino there are lots of brilliant tracks to choose from (and with quite a bit of range between rhythmic and lyrical), and there is just not so much useable material to put a good Marino tanda together as many of those recordings tend towards the nether edge of danceability.
I don't like the later recordings of Troilo at all, much of it is undanceable.
My favourites are the Fiorentinos, so quite often that is what I play and then I run out of milonga to play more Troilo. 1 tanda is the usual, very occasionally I get to play a second one, often the instrumentals. I aim to play some Troilo/Marino this Friday in Italy, though.
Troilo is challenging stuff to dance to, especially if you really want to do it justice. Quite complex usually. I might not play any Troilo if the dance level at a milonga is too low.
I just wish there were better quality transfers available.

[Andreas Wichter]

Pugliese:
As was mentioned earlier on this thread, early Pugliese is different from the late dramatic (often overblown) stuff.
Let me get this straight: I love Pugliese's music (there are a few late recordings that are just too much, granted, and his milongas are best forgotten), and he is one of the greatest tango musicians who ever lived. His best stuff is absolutely stunning.
The downside is that a lot of tracks don't really stand out, they sound a bit samey. Stll, there is easily enough good stuff to build dozens of excellent tandas. The range is a bit limited, though, with a tendency towards the dramatic.
This means you have to be careful when to play it - people need to be ready for it.
There are, as mentioned, the earlier recordings which exhibit much less drama than the late ones - some instrumentals like El Rodeo and Tierra Querida are rather nicely restrained, and then there are the recordings with Roberto Chanel which are extraordinarily rich and juicy but not overblown like many of the Alberto Moran tracks. Check out Corrientes y Esmeralda or Rondando tu Esquina.
Pugliese is best done in small doses I think, like strong drink.
One tanda per evening is my usual dose, but a longish milonga can take 2 - maybe a Chanel tanda at or slightly before the midpoint, and an early 50s tanda during the last quarter. And maybe, just maybe that one vals tanda I have...

[AndaBien]

I've heard it said that Troilo was one of the four great bands, but I don't personally like him all that much. From what I know of his (my own collection of 3 CDs), he seems somehow a bit homogenized, uninspiring, elevator music.

[Andreas Wichter]

I would agree that Troilo is one of the absolute top orchestras, although personally I like only the stuff from a very narrow window (1941-1943 or so). That, however, is absolutely brilliant. I don't know which CDs you have, but listen to El Tamango, Cachirulo, Cordon de Oro or Guapeando for instrumentals, to La Luz de un Fosforo and Farolito de Papel for Troilo-Marino, and to Toda Mi Vida, Maragata, Te Aconsejo De Mi Olvides, El Encopao or Corazon No Le Hagas Caso for Troilo-Fiorentino. Incredibly good music, and allowing mindblowing dances.

[bastet]

I've heard it said that Troilo was one of the four great bands, but I don't personally like him all that much. From what I know of his (my own collection of 3 CDs), he seems somehow a bit homogenized, uninspiring, elevator music.

Tends to be my feeling also, but like Andreas said, there are a few tracks that are very good.

[opendoor]

..only the stuff from... 1941-1943 or so..

..you´ve got it to the point! :notworth:

[Zoopsia59]

For a newbie, Canaro, Calo, & Rodriguez should be right up there, along with Di Sarli & D'Arienzo.

Yeah, I'm a little surprised at the emphasis on Troilo over Canaro in the links posted.

[Zoopsia59]

True, but tango is important to the BsAs economy, and the dance exports successfully all over the world. It just puzzles me that there are virtually no traditional tango orchestras

Remember that in Argentina, "Tango for export" is a different beast than what a traditional tango orchestra would likely be playing for the home crowd so there's already a paradox in your logic.

[Zoopsia59]

My opinion is that a lot of the bands that get into tango theses days, don't do as well as they could ... because:


The Musicians are often playing more for themselves than for dancers.
They play a lot more Pugliese (and Piazzolla) than what is typically found at milongas.
Some of the arrangements of very popular songs have more of a jazz feel to them.


I will say that when you get a good band that sticks (mostly) to songs from the golden era, and doesn't do too many tempos changes and stuff when playing, the crowd just goes crazy with excitement. People get out there to dance, and don't want to sit until the set is over.

I admit that I have been disappointed with live music on more than one occasion because it was much harder to dance to. Thank you for laying out just why that might be true.

[Zoopsia59]

I'm wondering if the tango musicians who are either:
A) better
or
B) more aligned philosophically with making DANCE music,

first seek employment in the orchestras that travel with tango shows before resorting to forming bands that hire out per gig. Certainly, if you want to make a living, a booking of an entire season tour is better than aiming for enough one-offs at social dances to survive.

I've heard some totally dynamite performances by orchestras as part of the big tango shows, and I almost always wish I was dancing instead of watching. That isn't true of some of the stuff that's been played at milongas with "Special this month, LIVE Orchestra!!!!" I've attended

[jantango]

The era of tango orchestras in BsAs and the big bands in the USA of the 1940s will never happen again. It costs too much for live performances, and we have their recordings.

Young musicians have to study tango and be trained in all the orchestra styles. That has been going on for the past ten years in BsAs with the Orquesta Escuela del Tango Emilio Balcarce.

The dancer who has no musicial training can learn more about "How to Listen to a Tango Arrangement." http://www.tangovia.org/ingles/edu_workshops.htm