Rockstep Rut

[Subliminal]

So I noticed something last weekend... I almost always rockstep with the left foot forward. I tried changing things up after I realized it, but it keeps sneaking back in. Any thoughts? How about you other leaders?

I think it might be some of my old pattern movements sneaking back in. I first learned a rockstep turn going counterclockwise starting on that foot. Also, the first way I was taught the ocho cortado started with that rockstep. Do you think it's a bad thing to only do it one way? How about the followers? Would you ladies notice it if a leader started a movement on the same foot every time? Is it better to be surprised?

[salthepal]

Not necessarily bad to do it one way if you're doing it well. I usually tend to do things one way if I can't properly lead the alternative ... I guess it's time to hit the practica to work on right-footed rocksteps?

[AndaBien]

... I almost always rockstep with the left foot forward. I tried changing things up after I realized it, but it keeps sneaking back in. Any thoughts? How about you other leaders?...

As you have mentioned, you can start a rock step on either foot. You can also start them in either forward or backward directions, and if you define it as such, left or right. Multiplying those out you have (I think) 16 possibilities using only one movement. Double the rock steps up and you have 32; triple them up and you have 64, etc. It would be a shame to use them only one way when you can do an entire dance with them.

You could consider designating them your step-du-jour for an evening, and finding how how many different ways you could include them in your dance.

I am a minimalist (as some would call it), and I use them all the time, in lots of different ways. Sometimes, after cranking out molinetes, etc. for a while, I dance the following phrase using only rock steps and walks, just for contrast. They are very nice for playing with musical rhythms.

[opendoor]

As you have mentioned, you can start a rock step on either foot. You can also start them in either forward or backward directions, and if you define it as such, left or right. Multiplying those out you have (I think) 16 possibilities using only one movement. Double the rock steps up and you have 32; triple them up and you have 64, etc. It would be a shame to use them only one way when you can do an entire dance with them..

May I add: ... and in parallel and crossed system, as well

[opendoor]

... I almost always rockstep with the left foot forward...Any thoughts? How about you other leaders?

Seems as if you still handle rocksteps, cunitas, rebotes as a special figure. Try to see a phrasing of the melody in it. When you are interpreting a song or piece, there is every now and then a moment to which a rockstep would fit. And if you try to do it right then in that moment, right and left foot should be concerned statistically equally. Do it out of every position, in the sidestep, crossing forward, stepping back, do it in the molinete, combine it with a saccada a.s.o.

..Also, the first way I was taught the ocho cortado started with that rockstep..

You have learned a sequence. You can start an ocho cortado in 500 different ways. The one you mentioned is a very common variant. But the rythmic capacity of that move only appears if you do the cortado suddenly f.i. interupting the cc molinete.

[UKDancer]

Forget rockstep - Do a Rebote (rebound) instead.

What's the difference?

BTW, Homer & Christina's latest is on Rock Steps:
http://tangostudent.blogspot.com/2011/04/rock-step-concept-and-variations.html

[opendoor]

What's the difference

The rockstep is a rebote of the forward-step, and my advice was, not to focus on the rockstep as a learned sequence cw with the right foot, but on the possibility to add an to-and-fro (rebote) to almost everykind of step. The opener´s question was how to increase other possibilities, remember?

[UKDancer]

The rockstep is a rebote of the forward-step, and my advice was, not to focus on the rockstep as a learned sequence cw with the right foot, but on the possibility to add an to-and-fro (rebote) to almost everykind of step. The opener´s question was how to increase other possibilities, remember?

My memory's fine, thank you. You were suggesting that someone should 'forget' rock steps and dance rebotes, instead. But as you say, rebote steps ARE rock steps. I agree that they take may forms, and can be danced forward or back on either foot and in many different ways.

[ant]

Originally Posted by UKDancer rebote steps ARE rock steps.

I was wondering about this. I think there is a change in weight emphesis between the two. For rock steps I think more about keeping my weight between my feet. Whereas for a rebote I think that the weight favours the leg where the rebote is coming from.

[dchester]

So I noticed something last weekend... I almost always rockstep with the left foot forward. I tried changing things up after I realized it, but it keeps sneaking back in. Any thoughts? How about you other leaders?

I think it might be some of my old pattern movements sneaking back in. I first learned a rockstep turn going counterclockwise starting on that foot. Also, the first way I was taught the ocho cortado started with that rockstep. Do you think it's a bad thing to only do it one way? How about the followers? Would you ladies notice it if a leader started a movement on the same foot every time? Is it better to be surprised?
I would agree with Sal. I don't think it's that big of a deal. Doing a "limited" repertoire well, is better than doing every possibility not so well, IMO.

As it seems to bother you, then working on stepping with the right foot first would seem to be in order. I suspect it won't take too much work to get more comfortable with the other side, but I think we all have our tendencies or preferences, whether consciously or subconsciously.

[opendoor]

My memory's fine, thank you. You were suggesting that someone should 'forget' rock steps and dance rebotes, instead. But as you say, rebote steps ARE rock steps...

No ! Other way round: rock steps ARE rebotes. Rebotes are the more general concept. For instance a back sacada with your left foot done with rebote, that really was difficult for me to perform properly.

[dchester]

No ! Other way round: rock steps ARE rebotes. Rebotes are the more general concept. For instance a back sacada with your left foot done with rebote, that really was difficult for me to perform properly.
Then the better way to say it (IMO) would be that a rock step is a type of rebote (rather than saying they are rebotes). The way you worded it, makes it sound like they are identical, which your post has clearly stated they are not.

For the record, I don't know what the definition of a rebote is (nor do I really care). The single class I had on rebotes, (which in that class were different from rock steps), left me thinking I had no interest in them.

[opendoor]

..don't know what the definition of a rebote is (nor do I really care)...

if you dance rebotes, but you do not know about it, that would be best ;)

[passiontango]

So I noticed something last weekend... I almost always rockstep with the left foot forward. I tried changing things up after I realized it, but it keeps sneaking back in. Any thoughts? How about you other leaders?

I think it might be some of my old pattern movements sneaking back in. I first learned a rockstep turn going counterclockwise starting on that foot. Also, the first way I was taught the ocho cortado started with that rockstep. Do you think it's a bad thing to only do it one way? How about the followers? Would you ladies notice it if a leader started a movement on the same foot every time? Is it better to be surprised?

I noticed that many leaders have dancing patterns and and from the followers point of view it is good to have predictable moves although once in a while it feels good to be surprised. I prefer to be surprised from time to time and have predictable patterns for most of the dance. I am intermediate follower. For more advanced followers it might be different.

[Subliminal]

Thanks for your replies, gang. And I have no freakin idea what a rebote is. :D

[Subliminal]

I noticed that many leaders have dancing patterns and and from the followers point of view it is good to have predictable moves although once in a while it feels good to be surprised. I prefer to be surprised from time to time and have predictable patterns for most of the dance. I am intermediate follower. For more advanced followers it might be different.

Thanks for the point of view passiontango. :)

[salthepal]

The spanish word "Rebote" literally translates to "rebound"; so I teach it as a direction change where you start transferring weight onto one foot then push off the floor towards a different direction (without completely transferring weight onto that first foot; if you do you will lead the lady to a collection). It often help to think of rebounds not in terms of your body mechanics, but in terms of the lady's, i.e. making her rebound off the floor towards a different a direction. Does that sound reasonable?

[AndaBien]

The spanish word "Rebote" literally translates to "rebound"; so I teach it as a direction change where you start transferring weight onto one foot then push off the floor towards a different direction (without completely transferring weight onto that first foot; if you do you will lead the lady to a collection). It often help to think of rebounds not in terms of your body mechanics, but in terms of the lady's, i.e. making her rebound off the floor towards a different a direction. Does that sound reasonable?

Sounds to me like a rock step. If I lead my partner to take a rock step that I don't take, is that a robote?

[salthepal]

Sounds to me like a rock step. If I lead my partner to take a rock step that I don't take, is that a robote?

You're getting way too technical for me! :p

[newbie]

If I take a side step to the left and bounce, while leading a bouncing side step to her left (my right) to my partner, is it a rebote?

[opendoor]

S ..always rockstep with the left foot forward..

heres is a class summary with lots of rockstep variations with the left foot in || and X system:

youtube.com/watch?v=1vEUBRoVKkM
1vEUBRoVKkM

[salthepal]

If I take a side step to the left and bounce, while leading a bouncing side step to her left (my right) to my partner, is it a rebote?
I would call that a rebote...

[opendoor]

I would call that a rebote...

Ja, these are rebotes (so as the classical rockstep is also one)

youtube.com/watch?v=7vWnZew9cb4
0:19 small mirrors on either side in double tempo
0:28 the latter of the three back sacadas in double tempo

youtube.com/watch?v=fLjnnJbqns8
2:28 the quick change from left to right foot in double time

[dchester]

Ja, these are rebotes (so as the classical rockstep is also one)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vWnZew9cb4
0:19 small mirrors on either side in double tempo
0:28 the latter of the three back sacadas in double tempo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLjnnJbqns8
2:28 the quick change from left to right foot in double time
Here is another demo from a class on rebotes.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu7079A-omA&t=7m24s

[bordertangoman]

For the record, I don't know what the definition of a rebote is (nor do I really care). The single class I had on rebotes, (which in that class were different from rock steps), left me thinking I had no interest in them.

I quite agree with this this. I cant find a useful definition of rebote.The only rebound I ever learned was a cross lead, where the woman arrives at a cross, doesnt transfer her weight but exits to the man's left in a forward step; and that it was an energetic change of direction, wwith a feel closer to a linear boleo than a rockstep.

[UKDancer]

I quite agree with this this. I cant find a useful definition of rebote.The only rebound I ever learned was a cross lead, where the woman arrives at a cross, doesnt transfer her weight but exits to the man's left in a forward step; and that it was an energetic change of direction, wwith a feel closer to a linear boleo than a rockstep.

I don't want to try and turn this into another 'crossover' discussion, but there is a useful parallel to draw with a Latin 'checked forward walk' (at least for leading these steps). It gives me an off-the-shelf understanding of the essential difference between taking a step which I intend to reverse, and one where I intend to come over the standing foot into another. It has a lot to do with dividing body weight, and using muscle effort in the legs to cause the torso to make quite small but definite movements between the feet.

[piimapoika]

I always start off a rockstep with the right foot. I know why this is - when I started ballroom tango in 1962, that was the way I was taught. Now rocking on the left just seems awkward.

[newbie]

I do rock steps with the left foot when starting like a "6" of the 8CB, and with the right foot when starting from a "3". In each case I turn CCW.