Classic swing versus neo swing

[pygmalion]

Which one are you? And, while we're at it, just what IS neo swing, anyway? And if you have a preference, why?

[swinginstyle]

I'm now about the classic and more modern swing, but not what people typify as neo. Frankly, I don't find many neo enthusiasts on swing discussion boards. I wonder why that is.

[jon]

Neoswing is mostly a label for swing-influenced bands of the mid-late 90s , and as a musical genre it had its day in the sun and is dead and gone.

[swinginstyle]

There's also a fact that the main core of neo-swing enthusiasts are east coast swing dancers. And, as a whole, they don't get out much, they're not organized, they don't care to advance their dancing, and you don't see them on swing discussion boards such as these. When it comes to being connected, lindy hoppers rule.

[pygmalion]

LOL! Okay. So consider neo swing thoroughly dismissed. :roll:

I still don't know what it is, other than the fact that some bands in the nineties played it. What's so bad about it? Does it swing? Is it knockoff copies of classics? Is is crassly commercial? And who are the bands that played it? Are they playing "swing" still? (If so, who's in the audience?)

And doesn't neo swing deserve at least some credit for attracting thousands of new converts to swing, back in the nineties?

[swinginstyle]

Look, I wasn't trying to dismiss neo-swing. It has it benefits, namely recruiting dancers in droves. Frankly, I was raised on neo-swing, and only recently discovered the earlier roots of swing. Now, I typically dismiss neo-swing music. However, I'm hardpressed to ignore my roots entirely.

Typical bands were Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Cherry Poppin' Daddies, Brian Setzer, Royal Crown Revue. I'm still fuzzy on others, because I'm not up on my "swinging" music. Other bands I enjoy are Jive Aces, Lavay Smith, Indigo Swing, Bill Elliott and some others. Do they swing? I'm not positive, but I've never been kosher with the musically elitist attitude I've received from fellow lindy hoppers.

Part of the reason they are bad, in my opinion, is because I had heard them constantly for three years at a studio where I worked and performed. They can became old hat retreads. They also have a driving rock beat, which doesn't allow for a swing feel.

[jon]

I still don't know what it is, other than the fact that some bands in the nineties played it. What's so bad about it? Does it swing? Is it knockoff copies of classics? Is is crassly commercial? And who are the bands that played it? Are they playing "swing" still? (If so, who's in the audience?)

Supposedly there's a strong ska/punk background in some of those bands. Most of them do their own material and covers of classics as well. I don't know what "crassly commercial" means - I expect most bands would like to make lots of money, if they can.

Some of the bands have broken up, like Indigo Swing. Some still tour - I believe I saw a concert date listed for Royal Crown Revue recently - but they're getting much smaller crowds these days.

It's not like (most) people hate the stuff, it just was very popular and now has passed its best-by date.

[etchuck]

I don't know. I tend to like both the old stuff and the new stuff. Sure, the "popularizing" of old-style swing makes things a bit less than "pure" for the purists, but I think it's fairly shortsighted to completely dismiss it. The fact is that most of the recordings of old-time swing are not easy to play in a club by a DJ, and at least the new covers are digitally mastered.

The other thing is, music evolves. The fact that so many people dismiss the evolution of that branch of swing music means that the community is not willing to let that style of music flourish. That will ultimately doom swing as being very elitist and no longer let dancers push themselves to make the dance evolve. At least that's why I like WCS a lot; the music and the dance are changing all the time. It makes it harder to learn, but at least I have opened my mind up to dancing to new styles of music I wouldn't have if I restricted WCS songs to just "country songs."

[jon]

I don't know. I tend to like both the old stuff and the new stuff. Sure, the "popularizing" of old-style swing makes things a bit less than "pure" for the purists, but I think it's fairly shortsighted to completely dismiss it.

Musical preferences are a matter of passionate personal opinion among dancers, and always will be. But Lindy Hop has been danced for about 75 years now and doesn't seem particularly "doomed" because one recent musical style is no longer widespread.

I don't think we are "completely dismissing" neoswing by a factual acknowledgement that it is no longer a popular musical form. Jump blues aren't popular music anymore, either, but that doesn't mean that they aren't fun to dance to, or that Louis Jordan has been completely dismissed from the consciousness of swing dancers. It just means that they aren't played for dancing as frequently as they were in the 1940s.

[pygmalion]

Sorry. I have to digress, here. Louis Jordan rocks!!! Always has, always will, may God rest his swingin soul.

The only sad thing is that his music was re-popularized after his death. I believe he died unsung and destitute, at least from what I've read. I was raised on Louis Jordan. My mom had his music on 78 RPM records. She was saddened and thrilled to hear of many of his popular songs being re-released on vinyl in 1975, just after his death.

Since I'd been thoroughly indoctrinated by dear old Mom, I bought his stuff first on vinyl, then on audiotape. Now I have it on CD. Good, entertaining, sometimes swing, often blues music. He rocks!

[jon]

Yet another great artist I wish I'd heard when he was still alive (at least I got to see Lionel Hampton a few years ago).

I've gotta say, though, that the post-1954 (or thereabouts) Louis Jordan, when he started trying to do rock-n-roll, is far less fun.

[Jmatthew]

LOL! Okay. So consider neo swing thoroughly dismissed.

I still don't know what it is, other than the fact that some bands in the nineties played it. What's so bad about it? Does it swing? Is it knockoff copies of classics? Is is crassly commercial? And who are the bands that played it? Are they playing "swing" still? (If so, who's in the audience?)

And doesn't neo swing deserve at least some credit for attracting thousands of new converts to swing, back in the nineties?

I'd hardly consider Neo-Swing dismissed. It's more like Neo is to classic swing what a candy bar is compared to a an actual meal. :)

There are a lot of Neo-swing bands that are still around, Big Bad Voodoo Daddies are touring this summer, Lavay Smith is definately still in the game, Brian Setzer is doing SOMETHING (although gods only know what), unfortunately Indigo is semi-dead (their lead singer is putting out solo stuff, no idea if it's danceable), but they get played in suprising places...

One of the nice things about Neo is that it swings, one of the bad things is that it swings HARD. There's no subtlety to it at all, it's being beat with the beat (pun unintentional) until your ear drums are bleeding. It's GREAT for newbies for that very reason. Can't quite find the rythm in "Shiny Stockings" by Basie? No problem, your deaf grandmother could find the rythm in "Mr. Pinstripe Suit" by BBVD.

So what's bad about Neo-Swing? Nothing really, it just gets old real fast. BBVD and Brian Setzer and RCR begin to sound a lot alike after a while, and if you're dancing night after night they just sludge into a mass of heavy beats and drive you nuts.

Compared to the incredibly variety and artistry of classic swing, Neo-Swing just can't compare. :)

Of course, if you occassional fit some of the better neo-swing into the mix along with classic swing, you can expand your variety even more, you just have to be subtle so that the Lindy Hoppers don't notice and feel too good for that particular song. ;)

[pygmalion]

LOL! I love your post. 8) Deaf grandmother? :shock: :lol:



Who needs subtlety, anyway? :wink: :lol:

[swinginstyle]

Someone in Colorado also made the point that it seems easier to dance to classic songs vs. neo-swing due to the swing beat, not that driving rock beat.

[etchuck]

Someone in Colorado also made the point that it seems easier to dance to classic songs vs. neo-swing due to the swing beat, not that driving rock beat.

The problem with the classics many times is that you have to find good remastered copies. Rockabilly and neo-swing definitely have a driving rock beat, but that makes things easier for some of us dancers to keep time. :)

[Vince A]

I don't think it's a matter of which one you like . . . it's a matter of which one you can dance to. And the answer should be . . . BOTH!

For example . . . we went to a family wedding just this past weekend, and after all the congrats to the bride an dgroom and stuff at the reception, the DJ began playing the music. Right off the bat . . . he played a medium swing "classical" (as you say) swing song . . . kinda Glen Miller sound, but more modern.

Care and I jumped up and began dancing . . . and were the only ones on the floor . . . another swing song, another dance . . . another swing song, another dance, and so on. Since we haven't danced together in a few weeks, we thought "how fun!" After about 7 straight dances, we sat down.

Back at the table, we heard "you two are great" . . . "wow" . . . and we also heard "snobs" etc . . . :shock:

Then we heard the kids saying, "bet if we change the music (neo???) on you, you two won't dance!" The kids asked the DJ to change the music . . . the DJ played Outkast, Brittney Spears, and R. Kelly, and guess who was the only couple on the floor again???

Yep, that's music that we daily practice to . . . the "snobs" were at it again!

Bottom line . . . Dance to the beat . . . A Swing dance is a Swing dance is a Swing dance!

[etchuck]

That's where learning WCS is really useful. :)

Referring to the "Eloping" thread in Dancers Anonymous, I'll admit the only reason why I'd probably ever want a real expensive wedding is the fact I'd want a dance reception... that lasts from sunset to sunrise.

[Vince A]

That's where learning WCS is really useful. :)

Referring to the "Eloping" thread in Dancers Anonymous, I'll admit the only reason why I'd probably ever want a real expensive wedding is the fact I'd want a dance reception... that lasts from sunset to sunrise.
I agree . . . make sure you invite me???

[jon]

If I ever get married the reception may go all night long, but I'll have better things than dancing to be doing for most of that time :wink:

[pygmalion]

Silly man!! :lol:

[Vince A]

If I ever get married the reception may go all night long, but I'll have better things than dancing to be doing for most of that time :wink:
As long as you can "go all night!"

[swinginstyle]

Someone in Colorado also made the point that it seems easier to dance to classic songs vs. neo-swing due to the swing beat, not that driving rock beat.

The problem with the classics many times is that you have to find good remastered copies. Rockabilly and neo-swing definitely have a driving rock beat, but that makes things easier for some of us dancers to keep time. :)

True, but the more you dance, the more you will get accustomed to the music. When I first started dancing to more classic swing, it was difficult, since I wasn't used to dancing that slow and I didn't know how to weight my connection. Now, it's easier with experience, both dancing physically and to the music, whatever it may be.

Oh, and great example Vince A.

[etchuck]

Classic swing slow? Over here, they like quick classic-swing a lot. It takes me a while sometimes to figure out what they're doing. Part of the reason why I like some of the dances other people I know DJ is because they'll play non-classic and non-neo-swing for their swing pieces (more country swing). I agree you'll probably get really used to a certain style of music if you're not as experienced, which is why you should go to some dances. At least with my dances and other dances I really like, you should be prepared for hearing some music style you may not be as familiar to dance to.

[d nice]

Neo Swing is a style of music, not just a classification of "new Swing" bands. Lavay Smith and Indigo Swing were never neo swing bands. Neo swing is essentially rock and roll of various ska/punk flavors that use jazz improvisation. It is not jazz and it is not Swing, but it is certainly much more than "rock with horns". It takes quite a bit of musical prowess to play at the speeds some of those bands did with the runs and bop influenced solos the top names did.

It is not good music to really swing dance to. The people that dance to those bands rarely ever syncopate or swing their steps because most of the music does not call for it. A good ECS dancer is much more likely to prefer music that allows him to swing his triples, because the dance flows better that way.

[Jmatthew]

Neo Swing is a style of music, not just a classification of "new Swing" bands. Lavay Smith and Indigo Swing were never neo swing bands.

I would certainly agree with you there, but there are a lot of swing dancers (and swing DJs) who would not. :) Maybe I'm letting SwingDJs influence my music classifications too much. :)

[d nice]

A lot of Swing DJ's don't deserve the name. They don't know what makes a good dance songs, the genres of music they are playing or anything about the band personnel.

A Swing DJ doesn't have to mix, scratch, or rock the mic, all they have to do is provide good music to swing dance too and most can't do that consistantly.

I've ranted and raved about this for years, against everything from the insistance that lindy hop can only be danced to music from 1927-1939 to the false classification of "groove" jazz. That is a subset of soul jazz and most djs who play various flavors of modern jazz for lindy hop don't own but one or two artists that play soul jazz let alone grove jazz. Its a nice lazy classification that prevents them from having to actually notice they are playing several sub genres of jazz and learn why that music gets the floors hoppin' (or wigglin') in their town and how to capitalize on that and at the same time expand the music that is getting played.