Question: How to stop a spin?

[Peaches]

So spinning/turning (dunno if/what the technical difference is) has always been problematic for me. I'm finally getting the hang of multiple turns, and can spot almost all of the time. But what I can't do is stop them when/where I need them to be stopped. This generally comes up in the context of WCS, and I tend to end up over-rotated...sometimes up to what seems like about 90 degrees. Any tips? (And please use simple terms and concepts and small words. This is me we're talking about.)

[Larinda McRaven]

When I used to take lesson from Louis Van Amstel we asked him "how do you spin so fast?" he said "I think... 'spin'!" So we asked him "how do you stop?" and he replied "I think... 'stop'!"

There it is as easy as that, and with simple, easy, small words :tongue:

[fascination]

for me: put my foot down, find my axis, don't over turn the outside shoulder

[samina]

also, just as the hips can turn you they can also stop you -- if they stop, you stop.

[wooh]

I got better "stopping power" when I learned to actually control my spins. So basically if I want to stop, I just don't spin.

[skwiggy]

In the context of WCS, it is likely that you are expected to walk forward immediately out of the spin. To enable that, try settling your hip, or making sure to "anchor" it before you step forward.

I also find that it helps to try to underturn every spin. See about how much you typically overturn. If you overturn by 90 degrees, then try to stop about 90 degrees shy of your target, which should put you just about exactly where you want to end up.

[laucy.my]

I don't think it's gonna help you much, no matter what we tell you here because everybody is different. The key to it is to practise as much as you can. Now don't even get me started on how many times I threw up after practising my spins or how many times I got lasting dizziness or headache that bugged me for days.

[Ron AKA]

Not a simple few word solution, but you may want to read a couple of instruction documents. I can't post links, but if you Google the following phrase it should be the first hit:

2 step 2 give away the farm

On that page check out the following two links:

1. Spin-Spin-Spin
2. Spotting

[jennyisdancing]

So spinning/turning (dunno if/what the technical difference is) has always been problematic for me. I'm finally getting the hang of multiple turns, and can spot almost all of the time. But what I can't do is stop them when/where I need them to be stopped. This generally comes up in the context of WCS, and I tend to end up over-rotated...sometimes up to what seems like about 90 degrees. Any tips? (And please use simple terms and concepts and small words. This is me we're talking about.)

Okay, I'll pass along some tips that various teachers have given me:

First, for turning/spinning generally:
-Keep core strong, pull stomach in
-When being led in a turn (not a free spin), keep arm in a L shape, that is, your upper arm through elbow should stay straight in front of you, and your forearm bent up perpendicular from there...don't allow your arm to go out to side, it makes it hard to follow the lead for the turns, and gets you out of control also
-keep thighs pulled together
-spot your leader after each rotation
-keep feet close together and arms into the body during turns, then to slow down/stop, the arms can come outward and the feet go a little apart (imagine a figure skater here)
-the earlier advice to use a little less power/rotation is good
-also, think of slightly rotating your hips the opposite way to stop, i.e., if you're turning to your right, slightly rotate hips to left

For West Coast Swing turning specifically:
-on a traveling turn, you can pivot on each step, don't try to pirouette
-get into a strong anchor position at the end of the turn (assuming you are being led into an anchor), i.e. move your center back onto your left foot. If being led into something other than an anchor, you can still use the principle of getting your weight over one foot. In either case, knee is slightly bent (not locked) to help slow you down.

[madmaximus]

P,
The best way to stop a "multi-spin" is to start the stop 1/4 of a turn BEFORE the desired spot.

1/4 before the stop, apply the brakes--by "dampening" the momentum of the hips and shoulders--and then let your standing foot's sole drag a bit more.

With practice, the 1/4 should later become 1/8 and so on.







m

[Peaches]

Thanks, everyone, for the tips. Now to try practicing them the next time I go out dancing. Thank goodness for leaders who are patient and forgiving towards a newbie.

I forget who mentioned it (and I'm too lazy to scroll down), but someone mentioned that I'm unlikely to get any advice that would be of help because it's something I've got to feel. You're right. But it's helpful to know where to start with something like this...and now I can work on feeling different things.

[Peaches]

Jenny--you mentioned not pirouetting. I assume that's trying to spin on one foot instead of turning with each step?

Also, regarding spotting... I have been told both to spot my leader and to spot down the slot/direction of travel. Thoughts, anyone?

[fascination]

you might spot both...I have spins with three spots

[Peaches]

you might spot both...I have spins with three spots
Oh bugger. I'll put that as a goal in my "Way In The Future When I Become a Competent Dancer" column. LOL.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Spotting off the leader may not necessarily work, since he might be a moving target.

[sambanada]

spotting

[jennyisdancing]

Jenny--you mentioned not pirouetting. I assume that's trying to spin on one foot instead of turning with each step?


Yes, correct, it means that for pivot turns, you would turn one-half rotation per step.


Also, regarding spotting... I have been told both to spot my leader and to spot down the slot/direction of travel. Thoughts, anyone?

The thing is, many WCS (and salsa and hustle) turns are 1 1/2 or 2 1/2 rotations. So, your slot/direction of travel is away from the leader, but then you end up facing him. For a traveling turn I typically would spot the turns down the slot (away from leader) and then just turn my head toward him for the final 1/2 rotation. With the more stationary turns, I tend to turn my head around toward the leader after the first 1/2 rotation, then keep spotting him.

[Peaches]

Thank you! :D

[wooh]

I've got to say 1 1/2 or 2 1/2 rotation spins throw me. Can't decide what to spot on, when to start spotting here instead of there, etc. I'd rather spin bajillions of times than any number plus a half.

[Peaches]

I haven't noticed a real difference that way. What does really throw me off is if I'm unsteady coming out of a spin, so I take a step with my free foot (because it's that or fall over--sometimes you just gotta make that call, ya know?), and then I get led to spin back in the reverse direction. Then I'm unsteady, and on the wrong foot, and things go very very badly. Almost took a header last weekend on account of that. Thoughts or suggestions?

[tanya_the_dancer]

My problem with spins is that I run out of momentum to compete a multiple spin. I can stop a single spin where I want, I can do 1 1/2 and stop and still be in control, but not beyond that. Another 1/8th of a turn and I am out of energy to turn further, and I haven't figured out a way to bring more energy in and still remain in control of the turn.

[Peaches]

My problem with spins is that I run out of momentum to compete a multiple spin. I can stop a single spin where I want, I can do 1 1/2 and stop and still be in control, but not beyond that. Another 1/8th of a turn and I am out of energy to turn further, and I haven't figured out a way to bring more energy in and still remain in control of the turn.
Interesting. I seem to have two modes: GO! and STOP! I haven't found the same problem. Once something clicked with multiple spins (with either merengue or salsa, can't remember which), the momentum wasn't so much of a problem. Stopping, or controlling any of it OTOH...yeah, not so much.

ETA: I think that I might think of them as several single spins in a row. Whether that's good or bad I couldn't tell you.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Interesting. I seem to have two modes: GO! and STOP! I haven't found the same problem. Once something clicked with multiple spins (with either merengue or salsa, can't remember which), the momentum wasn't so much of a problem. Stopping, or controlling any of it OTOH...yeah, not so much.

ETA: I think that I might think of them as several single spins in a row. Whether that's good or bad I couldn't tell you.

Clarification, This is my issue with solo/free spins. If a guy contributes more energy (i.e. if it is an underarm spin) I can continue spinning and spinning.

[Peaches]

Clarification, This is my issue with solo/free spins. If a guy contributes more energy (i.e. if it is an underarm spin) I can continue spinning and spinning.
Ahhhhh... Well, in that case, DITTO. Yeah. Free spins, not so much.

[jennyisdancing]

Ahhhhh... Well, in that case, DITTO. Yeah. Free spins, not so much.

So, does your original question then have to do with free spins, with turns that are led, or both?

[Peaches]

So, does your original question then have to do with free spins, with turns that are led, or both?Led turns.

[jennyisdancing]

Led turns.

Led turns are a problem but free spins are not? Usually if you can free spin really well, a led turn should be easier, since you have help. Could part of the issue lie with the leader? Or do you have the same issue no matter who leads you?

Put it this way, if you dance with a pro, do you still have the problem? I did at one point, then followed my teacher's advice to get better control over my anchor at the end of the turn. It helped immensely to get in the habit of making sure I end the turn by getting my weight back on my anchor foot. Also, the other tip I mentioned earlier about keeping your arm in an "L" in front of you.

[tsb]

Yes, correct, it means that for pivot turns, you would turn one-half rotation per step.


because of the approach i was taught when it comes to spotting, i think of it as more a 1/3 2/3's in terms of body movement instead of 2 half rotations - unless you are linda blair (obscure exorcist reference) - if you are facing straight forward (call it twelve o'clock) your head can only stay spotted forward until your body is facing eight o'clock (to the left) or four o'clock (rotating to the right) at which point the head has to whip around back to twelve o'clock while my trunk catches up to my head, though it may feel more like two half rotations because of the prep step.

@OP: while you have the connection to your partner to facilitate a clean stop after multiple turns in contrast to doing free spins, instead of thinking of it as one continuous movement, it may help to remember that it's a series of discrete movements and you should still be in control during and at the end of each discrete movement - you should not be building up speed or momentum with each successive spin/turn. the idea is similar to being able to take large steps in a smooth dance - after each step, you should be able to change or reverse direction without having momentum take you off balance which is what happens when you start lunging.

[Peaches]

Led turns are a problem but free spins are not? Usually if you can free spin really well, a led turn should be easier, since you have help. Could part of the issue lie with the leader? Or do you have the same issue no matter who leads you?

Put it this way, if you dance with a pro, do you still have the problem? I did at one point, then followed my teacher's advice to get better control over my anchor at the end of the turn. It helped immensely to get in the habit of making sure I end the turn by getting my weight back on my anchor foot. Also, the other tip I mentioned earlier about keeping your arm in an "L" in front of you.
LOL. It's not that I don't have a problem with free spins. I have even more of a problem with them (as in, can't actually really do them!)...but I'm OK enough with them to be able to get away with the 1-1.5 rotations that I can sorta do. And I encounter led turns much more frequently than free spins.

Never tried it with a pro.

[jennyisdancing]

LOL. It's not that I don't have a problem with free spins. I have even more of a problem with them (as in, can't actually really do them!)...but I'm OK enough with them to be able to get away with the 1-1.5 rotations that I can sorta do. And I encounter led turns much more frequently than free spins.

Never tried it with a pro.

Do you take lessons? I would strongly recommend that for WCS. Then a teacher can evaluate your skills.

[laucy.my]

I have a problem with led multiple spins. I tend to move from the spot too much so the leader will often be too far away from me.

[Peaches]

I haven't even begun to try to address that problem. I'll get to that once I start getting the hang of not falling over or end up facing the wrong direction. ;)

[Peaches]

Do you take lessons? I would strongly recommend that for WCS. Then a teacher can evaluate your skills.No, although I wish I could. Purely financial reasons for not doing so. I hope to be able to take at least a few, hopefully sooner rather than later.

[jennyisdancing]

No, although I wish I could. Purely financial reasons for not doing so. I hope to be able to take at least a few, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Getting good at WCS is a similar process as AT. There are so many specific techniques to learn. If you really don't have any budget right now, perhaps you could see if a high-level amateur would be willing to help show you some things?

[Peaches]

Getting good at WCS is a similar process as AT. There are so many specific techniques to learn. If you really don't have any budget right now, perhaps you could see if a high-level amateur would be willing to help show you some things?
Yeah, I realize that it's its own dance and I have got to be effing things up royally. Thank goodness for kind, patient leaders who are willing to put up with a newbie for a few minutes. :D Right now my major goal is just not to cause injury and so far I think I've been pretty successful. But when I have the money again, some private lessons are most definitely on the agenda.